ydrasil

What I was trying to say was that his averages are too low. Unless you only get 12.5k slayer xp per hour meleeing, the experience rates are far higher than what compfreak847 gave. As for the money, that is extremely hard to calculate and even so I believe the rate provided was too low.

287 Beware of Long Post. Throughout the thread you mention the experience rates for Zombie Monkies and Slayer. While I don't know anything on the Monkies, i'll stick to the rate you say - 110k melee xp/h. However, a vital flaw in what you have posted is how low the melee xp/h is with via Slayer. Many of the tasks received from Duradel (while not faster than Zombie Monkies) do give alot more melee xp/h than you say. One specific task I want to mention is Dust Devils. With the Slayer Helmet, on their low defence, the rate of experience is incredibly high. It is quite possible to get over 100k melee xp/h at the Dust Devils in the Chaos tunnels, even without a familiar (so much for 50k if your lucky : ). It may even be possible to get a higher rate with a Steel Titan. They drop a reasonable amount of charms at a ratio of sum:slay xp is 0.75:1 or so. They also have ok drops (Earth Battlestaff - 9.3k alch, Red d'hide Vambs, Rune Daggers, etc). On almost every task from duradel, it is possible to get 20k+ slayer xp/h, which is 80k melee xp/h. Admitably I only gave one task as an example, it would be worth the time to explain each one. While in some cases a cannon is used, in those instances the slayer xp/h is usually over 30k anyway. So by saying that Slayer is bad is only based on the pitiful rate you have given, when it in fact averages out much higher (though still less than Zombie Monkies). Again, you seem to purposely drop the rates lower than they are to make your point more valid. While on some tasks, the profit may not be high, you will never lose money. Excluding drops completely simply completing a task from Duradel over time gains an average of 24 points per task (due to the 75 point bonus and 225 point). This is the equivalent of 0.69 Slayer dart sets (250 casts), which works out to about 61k made per slayer task without drops. This immediately shows that your rate is far below what it should be (you may argue that your rate is for per hour and that mine is per task, nearly every single task can be done within an hour, some in as little as 6 minutes). Factoring in costs of supplies and received from drops is hard to calculate with extensive testing. What you say here is almost entirely irrelevant. You say dieing at Monkies is nothing to worry about as the loss is minimal and the grave is takes about a minute to get back to. This is you being biased towards one method as it easily possible to get back to any grave if you die during slayer within the alloted time. So as for safer? The point isn't really relevant. Simply pay attention and you can never die in either place. You also mention that Monkies is simply standing in the one spot and the xp comes in, and for slayer you need to run around and piety switching. This can't really be debated as it comes down to how each person likes to train. Personally I never liked the idea of simply moving to one spot, and simply waiting. To me it is boring and the faster experience isn't worth the loss of fun. But again, this point can't be debated. This point ties into what I just said above, cannot be debated as it comes down to each person seperately. Not sure what to say here. While if a new Slayer monster comes out with a new sought after item, of course you'll make money. However, alot of people already have high Slayer so there will be alot of the new items being dropped soon enough making the price eventually drop, same as every other item in game. Even still, during that time you will make alot of money. When Dragon boots came out my friend sold them for millions each, even now they are only worth around 280k, but still a nice bonus. Depending on the task you range on, the money earned varies considerably. One of the best compromises in this case is with Nechryael tasks to kill them with chinchompa's, gaining up to 300k Range xp/h while also gaining Slayer experience. Although of course, the task won't last an hour, doing this for every task of Nechryaels will add up. As for being downright horrible for training range, i'll address that in my final paragraph. I agree here : . Except for maybe for the people who choose to mage Iron/Steel Dragons, that is a viable option. This is the worst thing about the post. It defies any sort of logic that might come into play. What you ave done is said "Slayer is bad for these reasons. I'm welcome to opinions against this. But don't argue against anything I have covered". You say Slayer is bad for those reasons, we are trying to show how you have miscalculated, have gotten something wrong, or have missed something. You can't tell someone not to argue against something simply because you believe the most amount of experience per hour is a certain amount and that is being lucky. It is easily possible to on every single task on Duradels list (except for Mithril Dragons, and maybe Steel), to get over 50k melee experience per hour. I do not know how you train, but I average over 20k Slayer xp/h. You mention banking times slow you down considerably, while they may slow you down, it is anything but dramatic. Finishing a task, getting a new task, swapping gear and heading to the next place can almost always be done in under 3 minutes. I'm not sure where the significant risk in doing Slayer is. The most dangerous place During Slayer I can think of is Scabarites, and yet they are the equivalent of up to 60k Slayer xp/h. Risk vs Reward I guess : . Even then however, the danger is minimal as long as you pay attention. Now for the last section. It comes down to how you define "best". From what you have been arguing it is about efficiency. That is more efficient to train elsewhere for faster xp and lose money, and use the spare time to make up the money and exceed that of the other method. It cannot be compared without extensive testing, as you need to know the exact profit per hour gained by doing Slayer. It would have to be calculated over an extremely large amount of experience, the same method used consistently for every monster, and work out an average profit. All I can say is that your rates are far below what is capable. Finally, I would say that it is more efficient to do slayer compared to Monkies for the time being. By attaining 99 Slayer, you will get 99 in Attack, Strength, Defence, Hitpoints, Range, and also gain into the high 90s in Summoning. So technically by working on the one skill, you have attained the max level in six different skills and almost a seventh. So by saying that training Range during Slayer is bad, it isn't. Using a Cannon, and maybe even Ranging a few tasks, you will still get 99 also. Also one vital flaw throughout the entire post, you are forgetting that you receive Slayer experience while getting the high melee experience rates: Monkies - 110k Melee xp/h Slayer - 20k+ Slayer xp per hour 80k+ Melee xp/h = 100k xp/h Technically training at the same rate, although Slayer is faster as that is the lower average. However, some of the experience is spread over another skill.

In case you're curious, assuming you double nat craft at the abyss. You're only about 1,000,000 Nature runes away from 99 rc :thumbsup: I planned on going back to Runecrafting after Summoning, and yes, I was planning on stockpiling my natures to reach the 1000k mark \

My week just got even better \ Doing a 3 man trip to Commander Zilyana, the other 2 people ran out of supplies and left. So decided to stay for a solo kill, got this: My third solo hilt ever, and I sold this one for 42.5Mil. Unfortunately I fell just short of this level while at Zilyana, so I level'd it up at Fight Pits:

No party for 2 reasons. Would of had to of left Rock Lobsters - that is unaccceptable! ;) Also I was never really aiming to get them to 99. They only got up because that is how I plan to obtain the charms for 99 Summoning.

Having only recently had my internet fixed, I decided to go back to what I was doing before it was effectively dead. This was working on Summoning. During this, I got these two levels: I even now have just under 14Mil Magic experience \ Using up those charms I got up to here: Only 10 Levels to go till I complete my goal :

Slayer IS good experience. How much experience per hour do you get by powerlevelling, up to 100k? In slayer, in is possible to get upwards of 22k Slayer xp/h by using melee only. That is 88k xp/h. In some cases you can get over 100k xp/h. Not only does it equal (and sometimes beat) powerleveling, are you honestly going to tell me that powerleveling is more exciting? Or that it provides better drops? I don't see how Slayer is useless. Going past level 90 Slayer is far from the only reason to train it. Also, it is possible that during the time you train Slayer, that within the same timeframe that you may never get any drops from Boss hunting. Boss hunting requires luck and there is no guarentee with drops. If you are going to bring that in, you could also realise that in one task of Abyssal Demons that you could get a Whip on every drop or every 10 drops. While incredibly unlikely, it is still possible. Slayer makes profit regardless of what you say. Getting 99 Slayer has other benefits than money also. In the process you will gain level 99 in Attack/Strength/Defence/Hitpoints/Range if you train them evenly. You will also gain enough charms to get into the high 90's for Summoning. With the point system implemented Slayer becomes even more profitable with due to buying the Runes. So Slayer is still good money.

For me, it comes down to accomplishment and fun. While it will not be my first 99, Summoning is the first 99 that I will be aiming for (if that makes sense). I will get 99 Magic and Hitpoints in the process, but i'll just call that collateral damage : . Before Summoning came out, I was on the way to training Runecrafting to 99 because I enjoyed the skill. However, 8 months ago my internet was broken and would constantly drop out, so I couldn't really do anything on Runescape anymore. Now it had finalyl been fixed, and I working on 99 Summoning once more :thumbsup: .

I would have replied to it all, but Morningrise333 has said nearly all that I would have replied with. Yes, I did get some of my information from Zarfot's guide, yet even without that I still manage to get good experience. I don't follow the guide completely, I don't use piety on all tasks (I do on some), but I do use the 10% prayer on every other task. I did so before even reading the guide. Also where you mentioned not getting that much experience at Dark Beasts.... maybe you should read Zarfot's guide : (up to 34k xp/h with Piety). I agree that not everyone can use Piety on every task, nor do I say anyway has to. I have the ability to make enough money per hour to easily compensate for the loss and I still choose not to. I'm almost glad that most people don't realise how good Gargoyles are, more for me :P . One thing you mention is that is just slower experience because you cread them. It is like a circle imo. You dread them (for whatever reason), which makes the task go slower because you simply don't like them. Because they give slower experience, you further dread them. Insteading of having that mentaility, next time you get them as a task, instead of dreading them, try doing it more efficiently. The task goes quicker, about 34-54 minutes at maximum speed is about as long as it takes.

You've cleary misunderstood how to perform an accurate test. By performing all of what I said (4 tests), it shows the difference, if any, with a change in Range Bonus or Level. The reason the Range Bonus is kept the same in both tests is to eliminate that as a factor that influences a change in how good the Cannon works. Even if it does create an influence, it will do so to both equally, now do you see why? If that is all you get at Gargoyle's don't blame me. It is possible to get up to 24k slayer xp/h. If you have maxed stats, on a full world, using Piety and using a Saradomin Sword, it is possible. Now I personally can't get this as I don't have maxed stats, but i have gotten around 20k slayer xp an hour still. With the charms, I did not misunderstand anything. So what if it drops Blue Charms more often than other Charms. They give around twice the experience compared to Crimson Charms, and you still gain some of the other Charms anyway. Blue charms are the best Charm to get, not only for the higher experience, but they give a lower gp/xp ratio compared to the rest. Meaning, if you could gain the same amount of each Charm at the same rate (say 100 per hour of JUST Gold OR Green OR Crimson OR Blue), using Blue, you would not only level faster, but you would would spend less than half as much compared to any other way. Also from what I have seen, the ration of summoning to Slayer experience at Kalhites is about 0.73/1. Abyssal Demons are about 0.8/1, it isn't that much higher. As for being biased, I never said that was a problem specifically. However, if this guide is to be made soley based on being most efficient, then by adding information saying which tasks are bad to him because of personal reasons, when they give up to 24k xp/h anyway contradicts the basis of the guide as being most efficient. As I recall, I posted 20-25k. Now you can laugh if you want, but seeing as I know it is possible and I have gotten around 20k Slayer xp/h i'll be quite happy in the knowledge that higher stats doesn't necessarily mean faster training. You have to know where to go (chaos tunnels, stand 3 steps west of the rope, alternate between killing the two southern Gargoyles), what to use (Saradomin Sword on crush, piety) and how to quickly kill them (use the rock hammer on the Gargoyle when it is under say 1/3 hp left just as you go to hit it, this makes it so that if it becomes vulnerable after you damage it then, it dies straight away, making it respawn sooner due to dieing quicker, and moving onto the next sooner).

I would quote to kid with the super long post, but i figured that would be a bit much so im quoting you :) Kalphs=ew...just...ew...bad charm droppers. Woo blue charms...under 10 a task...woo... Ive found that ranging pots make my cannon hit much higher and tasks are a lot faster, so i truly believe it does help Gargs are gross and slow xp, the end. ALL slayer guides are bias...i think its stupid that people say ooo 5/10 too bias...ok you write an unbias guide then... This is a solid guide. There are a few places where it could improve, but trying to add to a slayer guide is mostly based on opinion. I think you misunderstood about the section with the Kalphites and Blue Charms. What you said was "They drop blue charms, which is a bad thing." You make it seems like getting Blue Charms is a bad thing. Sure, while getting other charms less may not be as nice, extra Blue is still good. Blue Charms not only give alot of experience, they are also the cheapest way to level (not inclusive of obtaining them). If you don't believe me with the Cannon, perform a test. Wear the same equipment for both tests, but use a decent amount of Cannonballs (500-1000 maybe) on a monster and record the start and finish range experience. For the 2nd test, drink a few Keg's of Beer or Saradomin Brews to lower your Range level to 0. Then use the same amount of Cannonballs at the exact same spot, again recording experience. In both tests don't attack the monsters yourself and always stand in the same spot. This makes the test a more accurate comparison. Also, the same test can be performed for same Range level but different Range Bonus. Simply saying "Gargs are gross and slow xp, the end. " does not make it so. It is easily possible to get around 20-25k Slayer Experience per hour on them. They have good drops which add up, as well as them dropping Blue Charms at a higher rate than most other NPC's. While every single guide is biased, it can be made less biased by adding more information. By giving everyone information about each monster, then the people who read the guide can themselves decide whether or not to do that task. One example of this is Warped Terrorbirds being upwards of 40k xp/h and yet people still skip them. This can be for any number of reasons such as they don't like chiming or no charms are dropped. This would also mean that in your guide you should add as much information as you can, about every task (yes, even Steel Dragons).

While the guide is ok, it is still missing alot of information. One thing that you should be sure to add, is recommended starting stats, quests to be completed and also items (not armour and weapons, but things like glories, tablets and such). Something else that is vital that you are missing is the experience rates. Only then can you truly compare efficiency. Saying that this guide is based on being efficient and that you aren't basing it solely on preferance contradicts the information given. One example is with the Gargoyles. Using the Rock Hammer on them isn't as hard as you make it out to be. Personally when I kill them, I have the Hammer selected and I right-click on the gargoyle ready to use it. So no matter how much it moves, I have the ability to use the Hammer without delay. It is also helpful to predict when the gargoyle will be able to be hit with the hammer, even if it wasn't vulnerable, just reclick attack, no time is lost. Also, Gargoyles are weak to Crush attacks, making the Saradomin Sword, or a Godsword more efficient for this task. Finally, you said there are two spots to kill these, but you never mentioned how to get to either (although most may already know, you should add this anyway). As Morningrise333 also said on page 3, however unlike what was said, Whip is still better than the Zamorakian Spear for these. In the kalphite section you said "They drop blue charms, which is a bad thing." and I think that is a mistake : . Also, there is no need for a combat familiar here, with the cannon in the right spot, you barely have to do any work. The majority of your time is spent waiting for them to respawn. In the Nechryael section you said "To get there, go to the Zamorak mage (entrance to abyss) and go down the ropes next to him. You are now in the Chaos tunnels. There should be 4 gargoyles, and head northwest." I think you meant the entrance to the west of the the Zamorak mage, not the one near it. Also for Fire Giants, you should should mention using Melee+Cannon in the waterfall dungeon. It is faster than using Range+Cannon. Your range level does not affect how often or high a cannon hits. Neither does your range bonus either. The most common combination people seem to use is with the unholy book, which isn't the most efficient option either. Using a Zamorak Cloak and Rune Defender isn't the best either. The best option is a Fire Cape and Rune Defender, the Zamorak item you wear is Zamorak Robe Bottoms for 1 less prayer bonus than Proselyte. (Just saw that Morningrise333 has mentioned this on page 3, but this reinforces what was said : ). In the North section the Suqahs have a magic attack that looks like Ice Barrage (doesn't hit as high, freezes - but not for as long). That is the place ideal to use the cannon, and praying magic is definately advised. There is alot of errors in the guide still such as spelling, but that can be fixed. Sorry for the long post, but if you really want a guide based on efficiency you need to actually say what is most efficient.

I haven't been able to respond or play recently due to my internet being down. Also I am getting my isp changed so I might not be that active just yet. In the meantime, i'll put my drop list here: Total: 17/61 [hide=Dragon 0/7]Dragon Chain Dragon Platelegs Dragon Skirt Dragon 2 Hander Draconic Visage Dragon Med Helm Shield Left Half Dragon Spear[/hide] [hide=Slayer 14/27]Black mask Abyssal Whip Dark bow Death Talisman Granite Legs Granite Maul Granite Helmet Brine Sabre White Mystic Hat White Mystic Boots White Mystic Gloves White Mystic Robe Top White Mystic Robe Bottom Black Mystic Hat Black Mystic Boots Black Mystics Gloves Black Mystic Robe Top Black Mystic Robe Bottom Bronze Boots Iron Boots Steel Boots Black Boots Mith Boots Addy Boots Rune Boots Dragon Boots Leaf-Bladed Sword[/hide] [hide=Dagannoth Kings 1/11]Berserker Ring Warrior Ring Archers Ring Seers Ring Seercull Bow Mud Staff Dragon Axe Farseer Helm Archers Helm Warrior Helm Berserker Helm[/hide] [hide=Miscellaneous 2/16]Granite Shield Obsidian Staff Obsidian Shield Obsidian Cape Obsidian Maul Obsidian Ring Obsidian Knife Crawling Hand Cockatrice Head Basilisk Head Kurask Head Abyssal Head KQ Head KBD Heads Pharaoh's Scepter Ancient Staff[/hide]

Just came back to see how everyone is going, and saw that there is an open spot now \ Does this mean I can rejoin finally? And if so, do the drops from my drop list on the previous thread still count (feathers are in pictures)?

Hadn't been able to be on lately due to trial HSC's for school. Just checked back to find new owner of thread and I am no longer in the race :cry: I had been winning too (and if I was in this, even though I hadn't been on rs in so long, would still be winning : ). Oh well, good luck to the rest of you then

Yesterday, you wouldn't believe the roll I was on, in total i gained 9 of the items :shock: The first being the Black Mask (10), which I posted earlier. I then took some Chinchompas with me to Mummies, 700 of them later: Whilst I still had Chinchompas left, and had the gear on. I went to Nechryaels, after i went through my other 1200 Chinchompas - no boots :cry: So I banked and grabbed melee gear and my awesomeness Lava Titan, under 20 minutes later: I banked at Edgeville again. Seeing as I had the gear on and was nearby, and still had Titan out, I went to Gargoyles, 40 mins later: I banked again, but kept the maul with me. Summoned a Bunyip this time. Within about 10-20 minutes I got these: These were about 10-15 or so kills apart, (also on the kill after the Black Mystic Top, I got another Maul \ ) Unsure as for what to do next, I went to Brine Rats. Around 1 hour later, on the last kill before I was planning to bank: Noticing how great my luck was today, I thought I might grab some pies and head to Abyssal Demons again. Having previosuly used over 50 pies there and nothing. First kill :shock: : Finally, to finish off for the day, I went to Kurasks. Again about 45-60 minutes later: So err..... How was your day? : P.S. My list is updated also.

Newest Drop: I updated my list with it also :

Why should it be compared to Whip+Glory instead of the Fury? If it is to do with price, why do you compare it to the Whip at all? After all, it is more expensive already. Fury's price is still high as it has alot more uses and it has great bonuses. The Zerker Necklace is made from the exact same supplies, requires the same Magic level, and a lower Crafting level - essentially the exact same to make. The difference is their uses/bonuses, which is why it is so cheap (which sort of supports what Davidium said) I can assume you were reffering to me as I mentioned that on the calculator the Whip hit higher. If you had read my post, I said "assuming that the calc is correct", or something very close to that. This is even proven in game that the Whip will hit higher compared to the Toktz-Xil-Ak. I never based what I said entirely on what the calculator showed. Scroll up, I even performed a test that showed Dragon Scimitar was better/equal on that specific NPC. Attack bonuses are extremeley helpful, I agree with that. However, the Zamorakian Spear has better Defence bonuses, +2 prayer bonus, and is also faster then Guthan's Spear. Also, according to GE prices, the Zamorakian Spear is also cheaper by 3 million. While it isn't the best weapon overall at Waterfiends, it's bonuses/price makes it a great weapon for them (better then Guthan's Spear). I never said it was true, but that it might be. In my experience nearly everything else in Runescape rounds down rather then up. You'll also find that the max hit calculator isn't completely accurate. This is also shown with the test I did (top of page). For example, when you choose the Saradomin/Zamorak Special on the calculator, it increases the max hit. According to Jagex, it doesn't increase damage at all. [hide=Saradomin Special on KB]Inflicts normal damage, but restores half of the damage to your Hitpoints and a quarter to your Prayer. You will receive a minimum of 10 Hitpoints and 5 Prayer.[/hide]

It is hard to say whether Toktz-Xil-Ak/Berserker Necklace is better then Scimitar/Glory. Around 1k experience per hour worse approximately if anything. Keep in mind, the Scimitar/Glory combination is about 650k cheaper. Although, seeing as the Fury and Glory have the same attack bonuses, your hitting rate stays the same. Prayer bonus is same as Berserker Necklace, 2 less strength bonus compared to fury, 1 less compared to Necklace. And also +3 to all defence. So if anything, Scimitar/Glory is more then likely better still.

I guess I should put all of my List now. I decided to use links instead of pictures, takes ages to load otherwise :( . The ones in colour are the ones I have so far. Total Drops: 16/62 [hide=Dragon Drops 0/8]Dragon Chain Dragon Platelegs Dragon Plateskirt Dragon 2H Draconic Visage Dragon Med Helm Dragon Left Half Dragon Spear[/hide] [hide=Slayer Drops 14/27]Black Mask Abyssal Whip Dark Bow Death Talisman Granite Legs Granite Maul Granite Helmet Brine Sabre Black/Red Mystic Hat Black/Red Mystic Robe Top Black/Red Mystic Robe Bottom Black/Red Mystic Boots Black/Red Mystic Gloves White/Yellow Mystic Hat White/Yellow Mystic Robe Top White/Yellow Mystic Robe Bottom White/Yellow Mystic Boots White/Yellow Mystic Gloves Bronze Boots Iron Boots Steel Boots Black Boots Mithril Boots Adamant Boots Rune Boots Dragon Boots Leaf-Bladed Sword[/hide] [hide=Dagannoth King Drops 0/11]Beserker Ring Warrior Ring Archers Ring Seers Ring Seercull Bow Mud Staff Dragon Axe Farseer Helm Archers Helm Warrior Helm Berserker Helm[/hide] [hide=Random Drops 2/16]Granite Shield Obsidian Staff Obsidian Shield Obsidian Cape Obsidian Maul Obsidian Ring Obsidian Knife Crawling Hand Cockatrice Head Basilisk Head Kurask Head Abyssal Head KBD Heads KQ Head Scepter Ancient staff[/hide] If I didn't miss anything there, that means there are 62 drops in total. Another possible drop that could be added is the Lava Battlestaff, but that isn't too rare :. Since there is 62, are we going for first to 50+ items wins or something else?

I just completed a test for the difference between Dragon Scimitar+Fury and the Toktz-Xil-Ak+Berserker Necklace. The test was on the Agressive style, as this is what everyone wants to compare, the ability to train Strength. The test went for 1 hour exactly (From first attack till last attack before the time ended) with each and was conducted on Moss Giants on Pirate's Cove. The rest of what I wore was; Helm of Neitiznot, Fire Cape, Bandos Chestplate, Bandos Tassets, Dragon Boots, Berserker Ring, and "Barrows" Gloves. I also used Super Sets. Both set-ups started off with 10 Monkfish, in both cases I dropped 2 to pick up the drops, so really out of 8. [hide=Dragon Scimitar]Strength Bonus: +112 Slash Attack Bonus: +109 Crush Defence Bonus: +283 (Only Crush Defence, as that is the style Moss Giants use : ) Max Hit seen: 34 Max Hit on Tip.It's Calc: 35 Experience Gained: 75,324 Aproximately how many were killed: 313.85 Ending Inventory Herbs are both Kwuarm, seeds are Irit, Kwuarm, 2x Ranarr, Avantoe and Spirit Weed. Money Made at Average Price on GE: 68k Profit:61k[/hide] [hide=Toktz-Xil-Ak]Strength Bonus: +94 Stab Attack Bonus: +70 Crush Defence Bonus: +248 Max Hit seen: 36 Max Hit on Tip.It's Calc: 38 Experience Gained: 74,160 Aproximately how many were killed: 309 Ending Inventory Herbs are both Ranarr, seeds are 2x Ranarr, Avantoe and Spirit Weed. Money Made at Average Price on GE: 87k Profit:79k[/hide] [hide=Overall Profit and Charm Drop Rate]Profit: 140k Gold Charm: 187 Green Charm: 16 Crimson Charm: 11 Blue Charm : 6 Gold Charm: 30% Green Charm: 2.6% Crimson Charm: 1.8% Blue Charm : 1%[/hide] This shows that the Dragon Scimitar still goes better on something with low Defence. Although not much better, also remember that it is cheaper by about 650k. However, there are possible errors in my testing. I also want to note that while the Toktz-Xil-Ak did have a higher max hit - 36 compared to 34, it only ever hit 36 twice and never hit a 35. So they essentially had the same max hit. 1) I re-potted with the Super Set every 10 minutes (10 levels below potted max). On a couple of cases with the Toktz-Xil-Ak, I missed this and repotted after 11 minutes. Not really a substantial difference though. 2) I lost connection during the test with the Dragon Scimitar. I stopped the stopwatch 10 seconds after it lost connection (as I had just started attacking a Moss Giant). Then restarted it after I had logged in just before my first attack. Again, nothing substantial. 3) With the Scimitar I received 2 randoms, Wise Old Man with the Box and the Evil Chicken. With the Chicken, I put on mage prayer and piety and swapped to Accurate mode. It took maybe 20-30 seconds to kill. Might have resulted in the loss of around 700 experience. With the Toktz-Xil-Ak, only had 1 random - Security guard, no time lost. 4) Although not an error on my behalf necessarily, but I used the Agressive Stab mode with the Toktz-Xil-ak, as it had a higher attack bonus. Moss giants may be either weaker or more resistant to stab compared to slash, unsure. I was thinking of doing a test on Monkey Guards at Ape Atoll as they have higher Defence. I would also be able to use Piety to increase accuracy and damage. I might do this anothing time, unless someone else is willing to test : . In my opinion, even if the Toktz-Xil-Ak had beaten the Dragon Scimitar by anything up to maybe 5k per hour. Dragon Scimitar would still be better. Cost of buying it is one factor, additional cost of food and Prayer potions. The reason why I have kept mentioning the extra prayer bonus, is during all slayer tasks, sometimes not even on slayer, I use damage increasing prayer all the time. Usually Superhuman Strength and sometimes Piety/Ultimate Strength. Extra prayer bonus will reduce the cost here again.

Comparing what you did, the Sword would hit higher yes. You seem to have forgotten that it required a Necklace to hit that high, and to be able to compare, the Whip also needs one (i.e Fury). By saying you use this specifically only on low Defence monsters is irrelevant. You can't say you hit 5/6 of the time regardless of attack bonus. If that was the case, then that would mean attack bonus has no effect on how often you hit regardless of their defence level. The Whip/Dragon Scimitar+Fury will hit more often then the Sword/Necklace regardless of Defence. On Goblin's, with a Whip+Fury, it is possible to still hit 0's, the Sword will hit more 0's then the Whip though. While that is true, it is unfair to compare another weapon without it. Berserker Necklace is the best one when using Obsidian weapons, so it is only fair that you use the best when comparing the others. It can also be said that they started as being the same gem ;) Finally, people need to look beyond the ability to hit higher. The Dragon Scimitar, while does not hit as high, when combined with Fury has many additional bonuses. Overall it is far more useful on a far greater variety of NPC's.

I can't remember what I voted for :( , but I think it was the pet also. If the Santa Suit wins, there will be an increase in Santa Hat's for sure. I mean, are you going to wear a santa suit with say Guthan's Helm also? :

Even still, the Whip is more efficient for training Strength. Sure it may be 1/3 the experience per damage, but in 3x the time you will have gotten more Strength experience then simply only training Strength with this Sword. Although you could argue that people want to keep their Attack and Defence levels down, but I don't see the point in that. Eventually you will more then likely want to raise them to 99 anyway. Accuracy does matter. The reason you see people using the Scimitar rather then a Longsword or Battleaxe, is the speed. While accuracy is important, speed is also. So there can't be a comparison in accuracy if there are different speeds. Even if the calculator isn't 100% accurate, would it not be right to state that it would affect them both the same. So meaning even if the numbers aren't right, it still shows how the Whip would still hit higher (or equal to) then the Sword. Even comparing this Sword to the Dragon Scimitar, the Sword will hit on average 3-4 higher. But it is less accurate, and reduction in other bonuses. Sorry but that is wrong. Type in your strength bonus as 96, and have it show you the max hit (make the Strength level 80 or so maybe, not 1 : ). Next select the equipment "Obsidian Dagger" (actually the sword), Berserker Necklace, and the max strength equipment for the rest. That comes to 96 strength bonus, but now you hit higher as the 20% is calculated in it. Also note that if you select 129 strength bonus (equivalent of Whip with max strength bonus but Berserker Necklace instead Fury) and also select the equipment, it hits the same. The 20% damage bonus for the Necklace on the calculator is only added when using the Obsidian weapons.

The 20% increase in damage doesn't affect accuracy. Accuracy is how often you actually not, not the damage dealt. With this combination you will hit more 0's is all that means with reduction in accuracy. To prove my point with what I have been saying already, using Tip.It's max hit calculator (no prayer or potions, on accurate): Abyssal Whip + Fury Strength Level/Max Hit 50 - 14 60 - 17 70 - 20 80 - 22 90 - 25 99 - 27 Obsidian Sword + Berserker Necklace (On calc the Sword is actually the Dagger) Strength Level/Max Hit 50 - 14 60 - 16 70 - 18 80 - 21 90 - 23 99 - 25 From this you see, the Whip after level 50 strength, always hits higher, has better accuracy and better defence stats. I know you are know thinking, What about armour? As it is 20% damage, the higher strength bonus will help the Sword more right? This is with piety and super strength potion. Every slot other then the weapon+neck has the highest strength bonus equipment on. Abyssal Whip 50 - 25 60 - 29 70 - 34 80 - 39 90 - 43 99 - 47 Obsidian Sword 50 - 25 60 - 29 70 - 34 80 - 38 90 - 43 99 - 47 As you can see, they hit the exact same (except at level 80 for some reason). However, this calculator rounds off, but in runescape, everything rounds off down. Using the same strength bonus for the Sword when the necklace is equipped (+96), but having removed everything so the 20% damage isn't put in. This gives a max hit of 39. 39 + 20% = 46.8 which in runescape would be 46. However in combat it may round up, but it is unsure. Even if it does, the chances of hitting max is less then the Whip as the Whip has a max of about 47.75 (this is shown due to when controlled mode is put on, it hits 48 [controlled mode is effectively +1 to Strength Level]). All this information shows that the Whip in nearly all cases, hits higher or equal to the Sword (or higher in every case if it rounds down). It has increased accuracy, increased prayer bonus, increased defence bonuses. So for everyone saying the 20% damage makes up for accuracy.... I think this shows it doesn't ;)