Zepheras

Been months since I logged in, since this thread is interesting I thought I'll share my view. I think someone came up with a solution to this issue years ago. Just make botting 'legitimate'. To a player, grinding may mean 'a sense of accomplishment', or something 'I like to do', but to a gaming company, grinding merely means extending the length of time a player spends on its game, and hence getting more profit out of it. Back then when that certain individual brought up the idea (can't remember who), I couldn't quite understand the rationale. Yet looking at other games now, such as those on social media platforms, I feel that it actually works and it's a win-win situation; less unhealthy gaming for gamers, same (or more) profit for gaming company. The fact is, Jagex can't handle the influx of bots, it's been made clear ever since free trade was allowed. Why not introduce some sort of AFK system? Leave your character there overnight, after which you gain levels and resources. Or even NPC assistants to do the job for you while your character is free to participate in other more entertaining activities. Instead of promising something they can't accomplish and getting blamed for it, I thought this was the more viable option.

1. Impressive NPC design, battle animations and variety in attacks. Of course, I'm not surprised after seeing all the latest technology Jagex dished out in Dungeoneering. 2. Defeated by a 4-man team using Veracs. Goes to show the far reaching effects of a good equipment update, but also the flaw in the sequence of released. Barrows was way too overpowered for its era. 3. I've seen people talking about adding a Zaros GWD, but I was under the impression that GWD was a war between zamorak + Bandos VS Saradomin + Armadyl (or something like that) in an era long after Zaros was gone, and thought that it doesn't fit into the lore. Oh well, usually the cheapest, most straight-forward ideas are the most popular ones. 4. Someone mentioned about the flaws in defence. It's a permanent flaw in a game that can't turn back in time to fix old errors. 5. I'm waiting for the new game from Jagex, and only participate in holiday events on RuneScape. Unless RuneScape receives a Maple-BigBang-like update to smoothen out the lore, update graphics to the remaining areas (I see that gnomes are still using the really REALLY old polygons), even out the combat system at least to the standard of Dungeoneering, and remove updates that were more like quickfixes to certain issues, I probably won't come back to the game seriously.

The first article was great. There were lots of discussion about the mathematical flaws of the cap system when dungeoneering first came out, and everyone more or less have an idea of how flawed it is. We just lack the numbers. However, I also think that it would be too late for Jagex to do anything about it, as is with many fundamental flaws that is too deeply embedded in the game.

I was in Mod Marks clan chat a few months ago he said "I'd like to see Zaros in Godwars someday" I thought Zaros didn't fight in the God Wars? He was betrayed by Zamorak, then the God Wars were started when there was all this land with no God ruling it. His followers were hunted and killed off as well, except for a few very special Mahjarrat. Even if they did make some excuse to give him an area, what would they put in it? His only followers (that I can think of, at least) are some Mahjarrat, which can't be put in a dungeon obviously, and the people in the Desert Bandit Camp. Just put the followers of every god in there? Since when does Jagex think about the lores and history of RuneScape when it comes to planning things like these? Even the concept of GWD was flawed; four groups of armies fighting over a godsword, but each section already had a complete godsword to themselves. Maybe the generals should have just get out of that cave and find a level 99 smither to fix the sword for them.

Yeah, don't get your hopes up. They said they've guaranteed a drop by adding a bunch of new common unique rewards, like god arrows teletabs biscuts etc. In other words more junk like firelighters. :rolleyes: Totally stackable prayer and health restore? Teleports to harder to reach areas? God related elements (could be used extensively in future quests/monsters)? Junk? Great ideas I think. Especially as they will now be fairly common. The most useful stackable energy and food have come in the form of summoning scrolls, unless you're all out to burn your cash for other niche purposes, so the new biscuits are of barely any common use. Teleporting scolls may be useful or not; if you're an avid clue solver you can keep a stack of those for your own TT use, but if you SUDDENLY need to teleport to those places I don't think yo can get them off the GE instantly. God related elements is just extra magic damage in addition to your ranged damage, the "colours" are just there for show. We don't exactly have a proper elemental system, besides that one-time ice strykewyrm update.

The only thing that caught my attention was the 3rd age druidic equipment, I wonder what stats do they give, prayer or summoning? The rest are well.....ideas that have been re-used; the rest of the heraldic items (rune t-shirts and pants slapped with square icons), god items for Armadyl, Bandos and Zaros (about time that Jagex stopped ignoring them too), more animal masks for your customisation needs (cool). And I see a new theme too, animal staves. They look like a result of Jagex wanting to introduce some new but not so new, decent but not overpowered items that comes with some cosmetic value and have nowhere else to introduce them except for this luck-based activity. I wonder if we'll see animal top + bottom next. On a sidenote: Someone once commented on how the cache images of heraldic items looked too horrible to be possible as the actual reward. TADA! Jagex failed to revamp the images of old metal armour and dragon hides afterall.

Well you were raging earlier. Members should get higher XP rates, I don't know why this skill should be any different than the others. I think anyone playing RS spends too much time around 12 years old TBH and up until that post, nothing you wrote could have been seen has constructive criticism. You know as well as I do that removing impossible doors would mean faster floors and in the end faster XP. The only way to balance a solution like that would be to reduce the Xp rewards. Just a patch that would change nothing to how fast or slow the skill is trained in F2P. You obviously didn't read my post on the previous page. What's the point of having members skill and lvl 99+ doors on F2P, when it's plain obvious that F2Pers can't get past them? If you want to limit XP rate, just limit Complexity 5 and 6 to members only. Even giving them acess to F2Pers was a mistake to begin with. What Jagex has done was: Give F2Ps access to complexity levels that consisted of mostly members skill Add those doors and puzzles to the dungeons anyway Add a flawed monster level limit to F2P dungeons Regretted the above when members get XP faster on F2P worlds than P2P worlds Add a 50% XP nerf to only level 90+ F2Pers. So if I'm level 90 and my friend's level 89. He's possibly going to get as much XP as a member, whereas I'm getting half of that no matter what. And it's partly dependant on how lucky we are with getting members skill rooms. Huh? Just close off C5/C6, remove that XP nerf for 90+ players, all F2Pers get an automated 40% XP nerf due to C4, no members stuff, and pretty much the only things you can't complete are due to your lack of training in F2P skills. Problem solved. Yes, because with the way things are now, F2P loses out on 60% of the exp per dungeon due to these doors. (Or are you saying F2P loses 40% of the potential exp per dungeon due to these doors? I can't tell.) Which they don't, the bonus doors add up to a max 13% bonus? I agree it's lame that F2P gets screwed over with some bonus doors, but your solution doesn't seem to help much. EDIT: wait, if the 90+ nerf is a 50% nerf, they really need to fix that imo. Seems like you'd get punished for being high >.< Let's say the XP for for fully completing a dungeon is 1000 for a member. A F2Per who's combat 89 and below and complete the same dungeon fully (because he's lucky with member doors) gets 1000 too. A F2Per who's combat 90 combat and complete the same dungeon fully (because he's lucky with member doors) gets 500. A F2Per who's combat 89 and below and complete the same dungeon without any bonus room will not just lose the 13% bonus, but the core XP for that same floor and prestige would be lower than usual as well. By how much I'm not sure, but the last time it was discussed when the skill first came out it's easily 30% lower at least. So let's say he gets 700. A F2Per who's combat 90 combat and and in the above situation gets 350. (the numbers are there for reference) My suggestion allows F2Pers of any combat level to get 600 XP for completing a dungeon fully (because members should have faster XP rates anyway), and you're not going to lose that bonus because of some level 5 thieving door, but perhaps a level 97 mining etc. Fair and square.

Well you were raging earlier. Members should get higher XP rates, I don't know why this skill should be any different than the others. I think anyone playing RS spends too much time around 12 years old TBH and up until that post, nothing you wrote could have been seen has constructive criticism. You know as well as I do that removing impossible doors would mean faster floors and in the end faster XP. The only way to balance a solution like that would be to reduce the Xp rewards. Just a patch that would change nothing to how fast or slow the skill is trained in F2P. You obviously didn't read my post on the previous page. What's the point of having members skill and lvl 99+ doors on F2P, when it's plain obvious that F2Pers can't get past them? If you want to limit XP rate, just limit Complexity 5 and 6 to members only. Even giving them acess to F2Pers was a mistake to begin with. What Jagex has done was: Give F2Ps access to complexity levels that consisted of mostly members skill Add those doors and puzzles to the dungeons anyway Add a flawed monster level limit to F2P dungeons Regretted the above when members get XP faster on F2P worlds than P2P worlds Add a 50% XP nerf to only level 90+ F2Pers. So if I'm level 90 and my friend's level 89. He's possibly going to get as much XP as a member, whereas I'm getting half of that no matter what. And it's partly dependant on how lucky we are with getting members skill rooms. Huh? Just close off C5/C6, remove that XP nerf for 90+ players, all F2Pers get an automated 40% XP nerf due to C4, no members stuff, and pretty much the only things you can't complete are due to your lack of training in F2P skills. Problem solved.

Only if you're combat level 90 and above, so just stay 89 and below! Whopee! And of course, instead of preventing F2P from accessing C5 and C6, so that every F2Per gets an XP cut for not getting member, they give them access to C5/C6 to show them that "there's more to explore". :rolleyes:

maybe against bosses, but the boss attacking slower won't really help you kill it quicker =\ the defense draining ability for the ranger seems like it'd be better for bosses, that don't have particular weaknesses. Slowing attacks means also that a magician can hold his own in the dungeon.. So you can finally solo mage. Only in Daemonheim. :rolleyes:

You mean it's the only activity (as in the general term) that requires skills (which refers to teamwork) to get good payout. It's much like team-based activities like castle wars and stealing creation. Of course, if those had actual level system I can say the same thing too. :rolleyes:

Yes, I and see that their level of creativity is 1/99 too.

Well, you gave Jagex the green light to add anything as a skill as long as it's fun, not me. I honestly don't see why calling a minigame a skill is such a bad thing. You're supposed to have fun when you play a game. If you're having fun, then why does it matter what it's called? I like dungeoneering, I agree it's more of a minigame, but it sure as hell doesn't keep me up a night. It's fun to do, and raising it has benefited me greatly so far. Once this dungeoneering update comes (hopefully next week), it will benefit me more. I honestly DO give Jagex the green light to add anything as a skill if it's fun. As long as it's fun, I see no reason why it would matter what they call it. Dungeoneering is fun, is beneficial (within the context of RuneScape), and it does not fit into RuneScape as a skill in the first place. Maybe you don't mind how things are categorized as long as they're fun, but I do. That's the reason why categories exist. If not, why split things into "skills" and "activities" in the first place? It's like the Pokemon franchise. I may enjoy the main games catching pokemon all day (gotta catch 'em all!), and still consider getting the turn-based strategy pokemon mystery dungeon. But I sure as hell won't be happy if I caught 120 pokemon and then realised that the last 30 are obtained though turn-based strategy, regardless of whether I enjoy both kinds of gameplay. (Yea, bad example, can't think of a game that messes up its own category definition like RuneScape)

The first part is true, and that is what I consider the flaws of Slayer. But you can't blame Jagex, Slayer was added when the game isn't that big as it is now. Ideally, they should have added Slayer with the dungeon and tower PLUS all the quests we have now that unlocks slayer beasts, but you know that's not going to happen. So what's the best fix? Add all the already existing monsters to the list. The second part? Even if they wanted to add something special, tons of players complain that it's too "troublesome" to kill those monsters, because one task consists of over 100 kills. If slayer was this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CehhQC2yg3U Then yes, they can add all kinds of weird stuff to the monster. Think of it like fighting Bulwark Beast + Stomp + Zilyana, where there's special techniques involved, and evadable attacks (or even monsters evading your moves), except perhaps a longer fight, and perhaps around 3k slayer XP for a 10 minutes battle with one monster. Jagex is limited to what they can do at the time of adding the skill, and it's not realistic to make the changes now.

Are you insulting everyones intelligence by making that "point"? By your logic, woodcutting should be called "Chopping-a-tree-with-your-axe". You've never heard of names or titles? Would you be chopping trees with your axe if there isn't a woodcutting skill? By contrast, are you not already "dungeoneering" even before Dungeoneering was added? That is what I meant by a new spectrum of abilities. A good, practical skill does not need lores, or tokens/rewards, or Jagex trying so hard to convince people that it's a skill. And erm, thanks for pointing that out, out of the whole chunk I wrote. :rolleyes:

Before Slayer was added, we were killing monsters, some monsters and other monsters After Slayer was added, we were killing monsters, some new monsters and we were gaining exp on another skill for it ... what's the point ? After slayer, we're killing monsters with special abilities, hence the theme "Slayer". It's as good as a job class on its own, if RuneScape had a job system. I don't see dungeoneering as a skill or a job class, and I don't even understand the name of the skill. 'Dungeons of Daemonheim-ing' or "Opening doors with colored keys-ing" would be more fitting to what the whole 'skill' encompasses. My point was, I didn't expect Jagex to declare end-game on their own in this manner. Continuing to push out simple yet practical skill ideas for people going for the highscore to train on, with other regular updates would have been more than sufficient to sustain the game. No one needed some extraordinary end-game content, and Mod MMG's definition of the Year of Awesomeness was actually about this? I don't know whether to laugh or cry when I see Jagex trying so hard to package this thing as a skill and pushing it into the face of players. You may want to compare with Slayer or Agility when they first came out, but the name of the skills themselves implies a new spectrum of abilities that players can gain. It's a difference between "sees something as a skill but lacks application", and "doesn't see something as a skill, and still doesn't see it this way even if they add lores, revamp the homepage, and slap more enticing rewards here, there and everywhere". Sure, add class rings, add chaotic armour, ranged version of piety, more floors, more monsters. Too bad you made the fundamental mistake of introducing this to RS in the first place, and now anything goes. Even if the content is honestly fun, that's no excuse to dump it in RS if it doesn't fit in. AoG is fun, so add it in as a skill too? Well, you gave Jagex the green light to add anything as a skill as long as it's fun, not me.

Just because jagex took a minigame and assigned skill levels to it doesn't mean it's the end of RS. I was skeptical about it at first, but then I gave the thing an honest chance and I can truly say that I find it highly enjoyable. The awesome rewards seal the deal. YES you will have to manage the fact that the content you are enjoying is classified not as a minigame but as a skill, but with herculean effort the difficulty of that distinction may possibly be overcome. I don't really understand how it is you can enjoy stealing creation but dislike dungeoneering, when the core ideas are so similar. An open mind never hurt anyone you know. :shame: Don't be a trembake lol, any update that introduces a different way to do things is not bad by default. If Jagex adds a turn-based strategy, multi-leveled campaign RS-theme 'skill' to RS and name it 'Commanding' (aka Armies of Gielinor), then rename the homepage heading to 'RuneScape: Armies of Gielinor", do I have to overcome the fact that it's not very skill-like and accept it, even though the content itself is fun? Before Dungeoneering was added, I was chopping trees, catching fish, slaying beasts, training in dungeons. After Dungeoneering was added, I was chopping trees, catching fish, slaying beasts, training in dungeons, and training in dungeons? What's the point of it? It's just the same ideas rehashed in different polygon models. And this upcoming update is going to add something that I thought I'd never see in RuneScape either: classes. I was under the impression that yes, we do play different roles in various activities, such as tanker in a PvM team, or skiller in SC. But I've never felt that Jagex needs to classify the players in such a strict manner, nor give the roles an advantage. No one needs to declare himself as a skiller in a game of SC and then get some extra bonuses for depositing clay, nor do you automatically get +20 defence automatically for being the tanker in Bandos GWDing either. (And that's a dangerous PvM situation for goodness sake) Sorry if I may sound whinny, but I expected to see Jagex use their creativity and add skills like Archaeology, or Seafaring, or Husbandry, or just basically any skill that is new to the game, while I play and level until I eventually feel end-game about myself and RS. Not Jagex adding their so-called end-game skill of skills that is actually dungeon that summarises the all the skills in one location. It's not like I haven't tried the skill out either, but please, looking at boxes after boxes of rooms, passing them 100% without fail because you have the level or don't get pass because you don' have it, running and running and forever searching for that silly-looking coloured block keys, and trying to convince myself that I'm training something called Dungeons of Daemonheim-ing? It's tough. :rolleyes: I want to call myself a dungeoneer much like how I am a slayer, or a fisher, or a chef, but hey, I WAS already exploring dungeons since the start of the game! When it comes to updates regarding Dungeoneering I'm already having the 'anything goes' mentality, since it was something out of the normal pattern from the beginning. You see attempts to fix the combat triangle, more creative and interactive bosses and rebalancing of other skills such as better logs burning longer, yet Jagex would never bring this to the outside world. You see rewards that enchances other skills but otherwise have no links to the dungeon scenario in the first place, and could have been added to the game from another route anyway. You will see class system, and attempts to make the skill more skill-like by adding more bonus dungeons, yet the feeling of Dungeoneering as a skill would never come even close to simple yet practical ideas like farming, or fishing, or even more controversial ideas such as agility and slayer when they first came out. It's Jagex's swan song for skills, showing players what they can and could have done to the whole game, but is no longer at the golden era to do so, but nevertheless they will milk as much membership fee out of this 120 levels of old content in new paint job and sustain the remaining time with quests and acitivities. By the way, Stellar Dawn's page is up and running. It's coming out in 2011, have you signed up for its closed beta? :lol:

They have a completely new team working on Stellar Dawn. This is the same whining that happened with FunOrb, nothing on Runescape is being delayed because of Stellar Dawn. Let me rephrase what I wanted to say. Stellar Dawn is going to be the new focus for Jagex (unless it fails THAT badly). They've also hinted that Dungeons of Daemonheim-ing as the skill of skills, and adding a new skill after it would be unlikely. A few skills have content full right up to 99 from the beginning, while others received updates recently to fill the gaps. If there's any intention to increase the caps to 120, those skills would have been the first to do so. It's not even realistic to add content from 100-120, based on their regular schedule. Updating all 24 skills in a single week? Impossible. Update one skill per week for a total of 24 weeks, which would average out to 2 updates per month if it's done in a year? Still impossible. Update one skill per month over the course of two years? Unlikely. Take 3-5 years instead? I might as well play a whole new game. It's not about whether anything on RuneScape is being delayed, and chances are they're not. It's the lack of practicality in adding content at levels that the average player cannot attain, and the feeling I get that Jagex is in the end-game mode right now. Release some new quests and activities and try to sustain membership count. EDIT: Not to mention the wrath of players who realised that their cape at 99 becomes a normal cape, and they have to work till 120 for the 'true' skillcape. :rolleyes:

To be honest I'm not excited at all about any Dungeoneering related updates. In fact, ever since the minigame activity skill came out I see RuneScape at its end-game stage, and I just spend my remaining membership time (which ends tomorrow) in Castle Wars and Stealing Creation.

I think Jagex would be devoting most of their resources to the upcoming Stellar Dawn in 2011 rather than re-working the flaws of RuneScape. It's been 9 years, and you know that some of the flaws are too late to be fixed. Why would they even bother with increasing the level caps of other skills to 120 when filling them with content up to level 99 is already so painstakingly slow?

http://[Use Quick Find Code]/[Please Use QuickFind Code]?198,199,4,61038674 Q: Are the surface reward dungeons going to be randomly generated, or will one dungeon always contain some monsters, and another dungeon always contain some mining rocks etc.? A: The surface reward dungeons will be static locations that only players of a high enough Dungeoneering level can enter. They will not be procedurally generated - the same dungeon will have the same contents every time you enter it.

They didn't even have to give the tickets out for free in the beginning to show that they care about the players. Just post something like "We're working on the pricing on the ticket and see how much we can subsidie the cost, to make it more affordable for you, the players", release the ticket for say, 20 bucks each (without that silly in-game item), and I'm sure many would be willing to pay, and we might see a healthier discussion about the event. Instead, we had what we had; expensive ticket pricing, controversial 'gift', and refunding of the ticket cost right when the tickets were sold out. :rolleyes:

Actually, it brings in a subset of the most committed players; the richest. I doubt someone who's rich and yet not a loyal fan of the game would bother to show his face at the event.

And this is where Jagex decides that "We want to outdo team Blizzard. Let's implement it!" \:D/

Forward, backward, forward, backward. :rolleyes: