Yoko Kurama

If you're going to try to come into this thread and play the whole "I am the voice of sanity and civility amongst these flaming keyboard warriors" role, then why don't you actually try to keep up with the discussion instead of regurgitating the same nonsense that lead to so much heated discussion in the first place? Also, I loved how you came here trying to pretend to maintain some civility and stop the fighting, and then went all "that stupid quest". Apparently, it's fighting and childishness for some people to critique 2007, but it's perfectly okay to say things like "stupid quest".

Sold 100k for just under 100m. I understand this will completely mess up the economy. However as that only took a couple of days to get, I decided to jump on the bandwagon. How did you arrange the transaction? Some friend's chat? Also, who went first?

It depends on what you want to catch up on? What skills do you plan on training immediately? What are your short-term goals? If it's combat or slayer, then the fastest way to catch up is to do quests that give lots of combat XP (example: Waterfall). These will instantly make your combat stats into the 30's. Now, naturally, these quests were never intended to be completed by people with low combat levels, so you will need to find some people or friends (fortunately for you, lots of groups are doing this, so shouldn't be too hard). If it is some gathering skill, then that's easy enough to train.

Great, thanks. Now all we need is to verify if that screenshot is faked or not. If it is true, it's even more blatant deceit than before. So not only did they delay the quest, spend a great deal of effort on 2007 at the cost of 2013, but they also had the guy that was directly responsible for the TWW quest (Mod Osborne) parade around in 2007? Bullshit.

Mod Osborne allegedly posted a tweet (on twitter) where he is alleged to have said that TWW was indeed delayed because of 2007. Apparently the tweet has been taken down, as have all links to it from RSOF. Does anyone have any information on this? Also, on the Q&A, one single J-Mod unwittingly admitted that he alone spent 80 hours on the 2007 servers. Geez, I wonder if he had spent merely 10-15 hours of that time on the Quest, would it have been ready? And of course, there is still no word on the RSOF from a J-Mod (including in that 500+ post thread started by a F-Mod), and censorship of non-rule breaking posts is still rampant. Even if the story about Mod Osborne is false, the second alone should dispel any doubts about what truly transpired.

@Zeker_Jane Sy_Accursed has said what I was about to say. It appeared to me, on your previous posts, and still now, that you are implying that if 2007 is not free, then people will be able to pay for 2007 without paying for EoC and vice versa. If this is not what you were implying, my apologies, can you clarify what you were saying? If you are implying what I think you are, then I don't think there's anything to debate, Jagex has explicitly said that if you fall short of the 500K vote, then you will have to pay an additional fee for 2007 in addition to the standard P2P package. So, then, it'd be something like the standard 5$ to 8$ + 5$ in order to play 2007. Edited: replaced '-' with 'to' for clarity.

What exactly do you think the word "additional" means? Are you purposely feigning ignorance? ------- @ Melo In-game experience with players you meet is anecdotal evidence at best. If you are really interested in finding a more wholesome survey of the base, checking the various forums is a great place to start, and you will most definitely find hordes of people who fit into MBII's generalizations. Edited: Fixed typo, meant 'find', not 'mind'.

Generalizations are often useful, and indeed true. Simply pointing out "well, it doesn't apply to everyone" is not a rational response, because generalizations, by definition, are not intended to apply to absolutely everyone. They're are only intended to apply to a significant or noticeable segment of a population group. Generalization, after all, contains the root word 'general' in it. A great deal of the generalizations made about the the 2007 people, particularly those made by MBII, I find to be true.

There are a few things that some people here seem to be forgetting: A) Some of the players in 2007 are new players who were never actually here for 2007 trying the game out because it's a new world to them. That's not exactly the same thing as a sustained interest in 2007. Upon looking back, I believe Sy_Accursed has touched on this aspect rather nicely in this (click 'post' for link) post. B) This is a honeymoon period. Even if you want to insist proudly that you and all your friends are playing because of the 'fun and not the nostalgia', it's beside the point. Many people playing 2007 are not like you. They really are here for the nostalgia, or have heightened expectations, neither of which will last. C)2007 is mainly, though not only, attractive to older players. By that I mean, most of the dedicated fanbase are people who played RS or have some idea of it. If 2007 ever becomes an equal to the main game, or supersedes it, sure it will have its dedicated base, but outside of that, such an outdated game (and, it is objectively outdated) won't last in a 2013 MMORPG market, meaning, it will not substantially attract new players to the site/game. That, alone, precludes it from being the 'future' of the game. D) For Jagex, it appears this is nothing more than the new SOF/SGS to pimp out for the short-term profit. Hence the fact that for the last week, there are over 10 posts dedicated to solely to 2007, while there is nothing dedicated to the main game (so much for the 'it won't affect the main game' mantra). Apparently, in their infinite stupidity which has no bounds, they are jeopardizing the sustainability of the main-game for some short-term profit. Any company that is this profit driven and has such a callous disregard for their customer-base (just see the TWW fiasco) will be more than happy to crap all over 2007 when profits start dipping. Don't get too comfortable. This really is a honeymoon in more than one way; certain things can only go downhill from here.

A sig-worthy quote, if only for all the wrong reasons.

Even being Maxed is not that much of an achievement. It's because of the ridiculous experience rates for some skills, bonus weekends, and tons of free experience on the SoF. It's nonsense, and it's Jagex shooting themselves into the foot long term. What are they going to do when they have 20K Maxed players? Release a new skill/GM quest every month/week? Hell, a lot of the players interested in 2007 were maxed people who don't have much to do.

That analogy might hold, if there was a sensible parent figure involved in RS. You see, when my younger brother used to engage in that sort of behaviour, my parents were smart enough not to encourage him, or reward him for it. It taught my brother that he can't be a self-absorbed child, and it taught me that I shouldn't replicate that behaviour either. In RS, the closest thing to a parent figure, Jagex, has decided that they are going to reward the people who have been screaming, whining, harassing, and spamming for months.If Jagex is allowed to get away with this, it sets an extremely dangerous precedent. They have went far out of their way, to ignore one group which was grievously wronged, while rewarding another group that was owed nothing simply because the latter group engaged in hysteric childishness for months. It's about holding Jagex accountable.

MotherbrainII, to be quite frank, if they were honest and upfront about it, I'd be more than understanding of a delay, it's the fact that they have completely ignored the matter and pretended as if nothing has happened -- this is the most frustrating part. That hundreds of people are complaining and have been complaining all day, doesn't seem to phase them. It's a completely callous disregard for their players. Apparently, they feel as though they can do whatever they like, without any explanation what-so-ever. So it's not about the delay for me, it's the inconsiderate manner in which they rammed it. Like I said, they delayed the God Statues back in December, and I have yet to make a complain about it anywhere. Edit: Also, typically, Jagex doesn't ignore hundreds of complaints, mindlessly; usually if a lot of people are interested, there's a J-Mod within the hour to explain. They have had delays before and have posted explanations as to why, on the forums (for example, they did this way back when Dungeoneering came out and they had to delay the much anticipated Occult batch for a week from the initial date. They were honest about it, and there was no scandal). Even then, today's delay was a peculiar case, that did warrant an explanation. It was about conflicting duties, to release an update that was initially scheduled for much later on at the same time that they were delaying something slated for this month. That alone should have told them, "Geez, some players might think there's something fishy about this, given our promise not to detract resources from the main game, we'd better give them an explanation."

The main promise that they failed to uphold is that RS2007 would not interfere with the main game. The implicit promise that they failed to uphold was that the Quest would be released this month; indeed, as late as last week's BTS, they still maintained that it would be released next week. Now before you try to pull the, "Well, the BTS's aren't really a promise" card, I will preemptively remind you that although it's certainly understandable that sometimes they need extra time, there actually needs to be a valid reason for this. Choosing to finish an update that was not in this month's BTS, and which was initially slated to be released, at the earliest, in a month, at the expense of an update which was supposed to be released, is not a valid reason. It's the equivalent of refusing to hand in a homework assignment that was due this Friday, and in lieu of it, handing in some other assignment not due for several months, and then expecting your teacher not to get angry.

And other people, it appears don't even pretend to read the discussions they are part of, and instead regurgitate the same unsubstantiated nonsense all day. What part of they "lied to us, failed to uphold a promise, and with callous disregard ignored hundreds of complaints without any explanation what-so-ever" is difficult for you to understand? What expression or term in that so-complex sentence do you have trouble understanding? It's almost as if you are trolling and aren't even trying anymore (if you ever were).

It doesn't help that those upset about the quest delay have tried being reasonable and not only has nobody responded to our complaint properly, but almost nobody trying to respond has shown any understanding whatsoever of what that complaint even is, instead choosing to strawman us despite the complaint having been spelled out like 80 million times. It doesn't help that those upset about the quest delay have tried being reasonable and not only has nobody responded to our complaint properly, but almost nobody trying to respond has shown any understanding whatsoever of what that complaint even is, instead choosing to strawman us despite the complaint having been spelled out like 80 million times. This. Well over a dozen hours have passed, if not an entire day, and not a single J-Mod has tried to offer an explanation on the forums. They're too busy pretending nothing happened, and giving Forum Mods directives to hide posts which aren't doing anything wrong or breaking any rules except for being critical of Jagex. Like I said, this is a callous disregard for their customers.

There will always be people whining and crying when there is absolutely no need. There are far worse things happening in the world than nor recieving an update on tieme. No one ever implied that this was some catastrophic world event, we are obviously complaining about it it within the context of RS. The implicit notion that you can only complain about things if it's some major world event, is absurd. This little caricature scenario might be worth discussing in some alternate universe where the complexity of the event could be reduced merely to your caricature fantasy, but in the real world, you know, the one we exist in, where it was more than just a few people complaining, and more so about a company acting in a completely fraudulent and callous way, your little scenario has no relevance. Edit: @Omali There's nothing to be astounded about. The reason why there is a such a virulent response and a sense of antagonism against the 2007scapers is because they aren't just a group of people who have a different opinion. It has to do with how they conduct themselves. For quite some time now, this crowd has harassed and abused anyone who said even the faintest of praises about EoC, spammed various fansites, forums, friend's chats (including famous J-Mod Chats, and even authority figures themselves) , public chats, and so. They are petulant children. That's certainly not everyone in that group, but a noticeable segment, and the movement by and large has been that. As for the delay, it has to do, obviously, with the way Jagex conducted themselves (lying, failing to uphold a promise, and then pretending as if nothing happened, offering no explanation) than anything else.

I generally approve of Jagex's quests, particularly GM quests. The most dissapointing GM quest was BoE, which was only dissapointing because it wasn't a GM quest at all, only advertised as such, and I even enjoyed that. It's really more of an experience thing. The only way they could really disappoint me with the GM quest is that if they literally half-assed it on the 11th hour, otherwise, it's easy to tell if they have put any effort into it or not, and I can always appreciate that, even if the quest doesn't go as I had imagined.

He refuses to do so until Jagex invites him to Jagex HQ again. Either that, or this is some elaborate troll to give the 2nd and 3rd ranks a false hope, and then to spring it on them when they are close.

Of course part of why people get 99s is for the social prestige, or the "ZOMG you're so awesome!" chants that it extracts from other players. And there's nothing wrong with it. By our very nature we are social beings, and happiness is contingent upon a social context.

We are dealing with it the same way the RS2007 crowd were dealing with things when they didn't go their way. If there's one thing to take out of this whole experience, apparently the way to get things done on RS is to whine, spam, abuse and harass everyone across your path for months like petulant children, and even if you're merely a minority, Jagex will give in. The only people who doubt what happened or don't "know" what happened are those who want to believe credulously in Jagex's innocence. That's willful ignorance, or perhaps delusion, it's not a genuine lack of evidence. To anyone else who is truly interested in the truth of the matter, merely examining the facts for no more than 30 seconds should set them straight. Furthermore, it is not merely about a delay, it's about how to deal fairly and honestly with people, which apparently Jagex decided it had no use for today.

Nonsense. The BTS stated that they would release a much anticipated (by several months, if not an entire year) update this month, that was being anticipated by a large portion of the player-base. In typical Jagex fashion, instead of putting the majority of their focus into it, they decided to focus on other updates (Sinkholes, Slayer Tower), and leave the most important update (TWW) until the eleventh hour (the end of month). That alone is procrastination. But then they decided that instead of finishing up this update that was in the BTS that a great deal of people wanted, to stop it in the middle of its development to start on a completely new project that was NOT on the BTS (and was initially slated to be released much later) that only a few vocal brats wanted. That's the [bleep]ing problem. The BTS is for all intents and purposes an implicit promise, the selling point for purchasing P2P for that month, despite their tiny and ineffectual 'policy' at the bottom. I understand that sometimes they genuinely can't follow up, and I have no qualms with that (the December God statues were delayed and I did not mention a word about that or any disappointment), but today's fiasco was not a sincere delaying on their part. It was just Jagex acting in a stupendously idiotic and callous way. This month they made several colossal mistakes and callously did it in the worst way possible: without even any explanation.

Not only has one Forum Mod stated (before the post was hidden) that according to one J-Mod the reason why it was delayed was indeed RS2007 (they had to put extra developers on 2007), but this is obviously the case that 2007 is the reason why it was delayed. In addition to the reasons put forth by Sy, obviously if the Quest wasn't ready this week, they could have gotten it ready by putting a fraction of the effort that they put into 2007 into the Quest. It's blatantly obvious what happened. They had already decided earlier this week that 2007 would be out this Friday. Now, are we to believe that they were able to hire a brand new spanking team in a matter of days (without even advertising for any substantial time)? Of course not. What's more likely? That they were able to hire a new team in less than 2-3 days, or that they used their existing team to work on it?

That'd be nice, but it's obviously not true. This is Jagex simply being fraudulent in the most callous way possible. I will repeat this for the 100th time: not only did they treacherously lie to us about several different things, but they didn't even have the common decency to give us an explanation or apology. They simply did what they wanted, released the servers/'BTS', and ran off without a word. Now of course, they're too busy censoring comments on Youtube and the RSOF. Our only consolation is the flurry of abuse that they're getting from people with legitimate grievances. No term of abuse could go too far for this sort of thing. I am by no means a vicious person, but today, I truly hope that something mildly terrible happens to whoever was responsible for this.

It's General Discussion. Everything is an argument here. Some are just more subtle than others. I am not sure if ALG is being sarcastic/sardonic, or not, but I agree with the surface-level meaning of his statement. This is a public forum, where we are here to discuss our opinions, and views, among other things. Every time you post a normative statement (which is what your statement was), there will be some people who agree with it, others who disagree, and others, still, who are indifferent. You posted an opinion and I registered my own opinion which disagreed with yours. That's all there is to it. That's not me being combative or needlessly argumentative, that's simply having a somewhat heated discussion. That's all.