qeltar

Are you really going to stand there and argue that because life is unfair, that justifies a company deliberately making it *more* unfair, via something they claimed was intended to "thank their customers"? Bizarre.

And if Jagex had waited until after RuneFest was over, and then given everyone a card with a redeem code on it, then maybe I'd agree with you. That's not what they did. They are trying to have their cake and eat it too, by simultaneously calling it a "free gift" and also trying to use it as a hook to entice people to buy tickets. Sorry, it won't fly. It's patently dishonest. This is somewhat reminiscent of those giveaways they had at baseball games when I was a kid. (Maybe they still have them, I dunno.) You attend the game and get a "gift" of some sort. Except they announce them in advance, and the ability to get the gift is part of why people go to those games. In fact, some people go ONLY to get the items. Why not? This redeem code is no more free than the wiffle bat, or commemorative calendar, or whatever. When you dangle something in front of people to entice them to buy a ticket, it's ridiculous to then turn around and suggest that they aren't paying for the item you are dangling in front of them, but getting it "free".

You can't buy them separately. You pay $120 and you get a ticket and a flag. There is no way to get the flag other than paying the $120. They are no more separate than saying you're paying $120 to meet J mods and the rest of the party is free, or you're paying $120 for the food and the drinks are free, or anything else. Well, this is an interesting perspective. I personally don't care about decorative in-game items at all -- I don't even do holiday events. But why is the flag so *inherently* valueless compared to the ticket? I mean, it's a party. Why do you go to a party? To have fun. If someone thinks having the flag is more fun than having the ticket, does that mean they automatically qualify for the asylum? If you had to grind for 125 hours in some new skill called "Flagstaffing" to get this thing, would that mean anyone who did it was insane? How is paying $125 for a worthless staff any more insane than spending hundreds of hours to get a worthless hat? Unless you think time has no value at all?

These are valid points not often made. Everyone loves to cherry pick those big 5:5 XP reward screens and paste them on forums. But they don't talk about all of the messed up floors, and ones where people leave, or bosses that KO one player leading to a cascade effect, and so on. People who like big maps also don't talk much about the time required to contact players, arrange times to play, coordinate things and so forth. Even when you have a group of friends you like playing with, it's common to run into scheduling issues, this one has to go have dinner, that one has an appointment, etc. I don't deny that playing in a group is faster. But I don't think it's as much faster as some people portray it to be. And even though I primarily solo, I think team play *should* give more XP, to compensate for the annoyance factor.

No, they don't. But you know what? Jagex didn't *need* to make it impossible for these people to get that flag either. They didn't *need* to put something so obviously stupidly thought out into the game at all. You're using a form of argument that basically boils down to "life sucks, so it's okay if people make it suck more". Rather spurious. This was supposed to be an event to *thank* customers, wasn't it? Since the flag and the event must be purchased together and cannot be obtained in any other way, the flag and the event are collectively $120. Any attempt to separate them is silly game-playing.

Irrelevant. Throwing a party to "thank" your customers and then making them cover the entire cost of said party is like inviting clients out to dinner to thank them for their patronage and then making them split the bill. And it's particularly sad when the company is clearing millions (even despite snafus like Mechscape) and most of the customers are poor students.

Kinda like a company that makes $25,000,000 a year charging its primarily teenaged and college-aged students over $120 a ticket to attend a celebration ostensibly intended to "thank" them.

I don't give out my phone number to random strangers, or pick up phone calls from people I don't know -- unless I feel like it. Why should this be any different?

Paw: it's in last week's patch notes in Recent Updates. Or go to the rewards dude and read the description, you'll see it's changed. (The KB is not, though.)

I know one guy who has one and absolutely loves it. The spirit weed seed is probably a bug. Paw, they clarified last week that it works on living patches as well.

What exactly IS its use? What is its purpose? Does Jagex even know? Is the purpose to show you attended the event? Nope, can't be that, because you can get the item without attending. Is it to promote the event? If so, it would be better if everyone could get it. It sure as hell isn't to do something nice for the community, given how divisive it is, and how anyone with two clues to rub together could have predicted what would happen when they announced it.

No, it's an item to say you had $125 to blow. Whether you are there or not is immaterial: send them the money, they give you the item. Expressing concerns or issues about something is not inherently whining, when those concerns are expressed in a rational and reasonable manner. Again, it is not about the specific item, it is about the principles involved. I personally not only don't want one of these, I don't usually even do holiday events. I just think this was a very bad idea because of what it is doing to the community, and the "do as I say, not as I do" message it sends. Then why can't everyone have it?

It's not about the item, it is about how Jagex has made it available, the divisiveness it is creating, and the inherent contradition of their own oft-stated opposition to allowing real-world considerations to affect items you get in game. There are principles involved here. You either get that, in which case you inherently understand the opposition; or you don't, in which case you think people are getting "worked up" about an item, when that's not what they're worked up about at all.

They said it would make it too easy. I tend to agree. It would be nice, though, if they added them after you already discovered them. Say, if you take a swing at a rock, it marks it on your map.

I did an experiment where I tried to exploit every resource in a dungeon to see how much XP I got for it. The results were abysmal. Just do what you need to complete the dungeon; save the real training for above ground.

I don't have a list put together yet, but have done a lot of background research and can answer specific questions you may have.

Promethium plate bodies can be made by players with 99 Smithing. It is a common bound item. Just find a friend with high Mining and Smithing who is willing to make it for you. Now that you can buy herb seeds, you don't need someone maxed out, over 88 will do. I had one for a while and just switched to a t10 leather body. I find it helps a lot against all of the magic-using monsters and bosses in Daemonheim. Spears are usually considered the best weapons in Dun, because they provide moderate to high bonuses in all three attack styles, plus they can be poisoned.

It is specifically labeled "members only" in the KB.

And another tip.it thread goes off the rails with personal attack after personal attack, with moderators watching and doing nothing. I'm gone.

You think I have an "unquenchable vendetta" against Jagex. I think most of you have an "unquenchable need to kiss their [wagon]". It's all a matter of perspective.

Nothing is perfect, but if Jagex want to maintain that they are trying to avoid it, then they shouldn't do things that fly in the face of that. Well, neither of us has anything concrete on this, so not much point in batting it around too much. Well, it rather negates the "you're paying for X and Y is just a goody bag" argument. That's supposition on your part, of course. It could well be that they deliberately planned this, knowing the reaction it would get. (That's actually less damning than believing they didn't expect this rather obvious response.) All players, no. But a lot more players, on a lot more level playing field? You bet. They could have made it a lot less expensive in any number of ways. If that meant too many people were interested, they could have used a lottery system. But their priorities are quite clear. They said this was about thanking their customers, but it's very evident that this is not at the top of their list. If the flagpole is so unimportant, they couldn't have made it so everyone could get it? It would harm them how, exactly? Jagex has made millions and millions of pounds in profits. They couldn't spare a few bucks to make an event that was actually attendable by a decent percentage of their playerbase? You really don't know whose feelings are in the minority or the majority. You just made that up. One thing that is undeniable, though, is that the vast majority of players will never even have the opportunity to go to this event or get that item. As for vendettas, that's a matter of perspective. I compliment Jagex when I like what they are doing; I criticize them when I don't. When Gerhard took over I made many positive comments as he instituted positive changes. But things are rapidly backsliding and I won't pull punches just because some people don't like seeing their holy cows take a few pokes. If you think that's what the argument is about, then you aren't paying attention at all.

Okay, that's a valid distinction. But it doesn't change the principle here, which is still people using money to get items that cannot be obtained in any other way. I could pretty easily come up with other examples of RWT that don't involve tradeable items but that are still prohibited. I don't have that quote handy. But they have pretty consistently said they didn't want to get into have and have-nots based on real world financial situations, and that's what they have done here. It doesn't matter that the item has no use. There are tons of things that people spend a lot of time and money on, both in-game and out, that have no use. There is no difference, even if you want to pretend to see one. You pay 75 pounds, you get the whole package. No money, no package. Them deciding that the money is only for part of the package and not the rest is just yet more of the "Emperor has fine new clothes" technique that Jagex seems to now use regularly. It's nonsense. And I can guarantee you that there are people who will buy tickets only for the in-game item and then never go. So much for "not paying for the goody bags". All of this is besides the point, though. This should have been an event to raise goodwill and thank the community for making RS so successful. Jagex has turned it into a morass because of their unwillingness to make it economically feasible for most players, because of their dishonest attempt to make it seem like only adults play RS, and then this in-game item nonsense, which was totally unnecessary and the response to which could have easily been predicted by anyone with a clue.

Halloween masks are purely commemorative and cosmetic. You haven't explained how the tradeability aspect makes any difference; I sure don't see it. Corporations making promises -- such as "we won't make in-game items you have to buy" -- and then reneging on them are nothing new either. Fanboys of that corporation falling over themselves to come up with rationalizations for how the company violating its own principles is just hunky dory, and anyone who takes issue with it must just be a big jealous poopyhead? Nothing new there either. But again, the real point is that Jagex has miraculously turned this event from something positive into something negative due to a fine combination of greed and cluelessness. I'm starting to think that whoever is in charge of gameplay balance testing over there must do double time as the head of PR -- surely it would be impossible to find *two* people this out of touch with the customer base?

Some people expect the world of them. Others just expect decent behavior, fairness and consistency. And then there are the suckups who will defende anything Jagex does, no matter how ridiculous, incompetent or idiotic. (Seem to be lots in that category.) I just have one question, though. How is my paying $125 to get a festival flagpole any different from a philosophical or game fairness standpoint than my paying $125 to get a Hallowe'en mask?

If you actually understood what people are objecting to, you might be less disappointed. It's not about a few pixels, it is about the stupidity of doing something so pointlessly divisive and contrary to the company's own stated principles. Riiiight. And if you hire a lady of the evening, you are paying for her to have a nice dinner with you, not what she gives you afterwards. That's a "gift". (Edit for the predictable moron responses: I am not saying this is akin to prostitution. I am saying that if party A is paying party B for something, then what party B gives back to party A cannot be considered a "gift").