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California and the rest of the US? Quebec and the rest of Canada? The reddit thing is interesting, but I think it relies a little too much on NK gov common sense. There's no reason to be escalating things like this if they're not looking for a fight.

In fact, the church has held unpopular moral positions on many issues for quite some time. Abortion, gay marriage, contraception - none of these teachings have changed in time since they've been an issue, and they won't. Of course some changes need to be made to keep the teaching relevant - as society changes, opportunities and situations arise that just were not there before, and the church needs to make a decision about the morality of such.

Bump because leafs won! I couldn't watch it but I heard it was pretty good. I'll be interested to see how Kulemin is in a few years, he's got a lot of promise. EDIT: Oh, and I enjoyed this: http://sports.nationalpost.com/2010/11/05/a-beginners-guide-to-booing-nhl-players/

What about athiest parents? Do you think they don't teach their kids? Perhaps they do the same, in my experience atheist parents (strictly of people I know) did not offer spirituality in any sort of way, nor oppose it in anyway. Some kids of atheists have gone through all the major religions to search for which one fits them (in their case they nearly always go through many major religions instead of directly to one), while others choose to ignore it entirely. While (again just in my own experience) the parents with a faith chose to teach their kids to follow that faith, and gave their kids a lot of crap for differing from their faith. Now I would be a fool to say its like this 100% of the time but in my own subjective experience this has been true. Right, and I can say that your subjective experience is often wrong. I've never been forced to follow a specific faith - my parents raised me catholic but always stressed that religion is a choice in every way.

Moving this to Website discussion as that's a more appropriate location!

What about athiest parents? Do you think they don't teach their kids?

Except you obviously didn't get it. I'm not claiming the bible is accurate by any means, I don't think all non-religion is evil. I'm merely explaining the mindset behind people with strong morals. (religious or otherwise) In the same way, why do you bother trying to persuade the religious that they're following a lie? Fair enough that makes sense (haha sorry I can be very dense at times) But why do I try and persuade people that religion is a lie? Partially in the same sense moralists try to spread their morals and partially to confirm my own beliefs, with any argument I join in I would back down if I was ever given a strong enough argument for why I am wrong [in fact if given irrefutable evidence I may even change my belief] Precisely. You are set in your beliefs(admirable) and you will stop at nothing to perpetuate them; just as the religious do. You don't see it as forcing it down someone's throat, you see it as an attempt to enlighten. Yet, when it comes to religion, though the religious think the same way, they're accused of trying to force it down people's throats.

Except you obviously didn't get it. I'm not claiming the bible is accurate by any means, I don't think all non-religion is evil. I'm merely explaining the mindset behind people with strong morals. (religious or otherwise) In the same way, why do you bother trying to persuade the religious that they're following a lie?

And what is the force that religion is saving non followers from? Religion has always been about good vs. evil - heaven vs. hell, etc. I don't know what else it could possibly be about.... A system of beliefs a way of life a culture perhaps? Its not good versus evil as in the past millennium christianity has caused a LOT of evil, between crusades, witch hunts, holy wars, inquisitions, oppressive laws, etc. Heres my personal thoughts, I personally read the bible I read it the same way I would read The Odyssey or other mythologies from ancient cultures, while the history of the text may have some merit, the deities interacting with the world are part of ancient cultures views of the world. You are writing this to me as if the bible is not fictional. Something that always troubled me as a little kid who was raised in a christian family, I wondered where did God go, In the bible he was responsible for every little deed and suddenly now earthquakes are no longer his will they are natural disasters. On a related note I dont deny that a man named Moses existed and lead the Jews out of egypt however I dont believe he split the Red Sea (Oh btw it was the Reed Sea in the hebrew bible which is a completely different river, and the jews in egypt were identified by the word worker not slave making the whole exodus story out context but this is beside the point). Wow. Way to go completely off topic. I have no idea what you're trying to say at all.

And what is the force that religion is saving non followers from? Religion has always been about good vs. evil - heaven vs. hell, etc. I don't know what else it could possibly be about....

Please educate yourself... or read the above posts that already answered this. Also, I was never taught I was to hate homosexuals, force anything on anyone, or that I couldn't use birth control... I think you have the wrong religion there. :rolleyes: There is a distinct difference between Bible, Pope, and religion in practice. If you yourself admit this was not told by God yet the church does this then it is evil. Just looking at how [cabbage]ty the church treated their fellow man when they had absolute power is my evidence for that. And I was trying to educate myself by asking the question. And yes but the problem with the religion is the morality it imposes on those who dont necessarily follow the religion. For example, it IS good to give a 10% tithe to the church so you OUGHT to do so. Homosexualility IS immoral so you OUGHT not be homosexual. Sex outside of marriage IS immoral so you OUGHT not have sex outside of a marriage. The fundamental flaw with moralility is that it is generally forceful, to someone who agrees that something IS good, there is a force that makes them OUGHT to do it. This IS-OUGHT gap shows the flaw of morality in that it is generally forcing people who agree with the morals do follow them but it goes a step further. Morality tends to force itself on those who do not believe in those subjective morals, the prime example is the abortion issue. Prolifers are trying to put their morals over that of Prochoicers who simply say everyone deserves to choose their own morals. If you'd care to read my post you might understand the situation a little better from the minds of those with the morals.

$450 (I'm not on a contract). Its a bit of overkill for what I need but I figure I'll put data on it once I start working full time and I'll need it for work emails.

Yes, anti-semitics do visit Jerusalem and pray at the west wall. http://www.sacredheart.edu/pages/12234_a_pilgrimage_of_peace_pope_john_paul_ii_visit_the_holy_land.cfm I'm done arguing though. With every respective post you only prove further how determined you are to attack the church in every way, shape and form and there's no reason to debate with someone who refuses to see things from the other's point of view. Oh, here's an interesting link for you. It's the transcript of a debate about religion...like what one should actually be like, where they respect each other and don't make ridiculous accusations. http://pewforum.org/Belief-in-God/Can-Civilization-Survive-Without-God-.aspx

Probably a bit of both - but it's certainly not the be all and end all. See, if you actually took the time to learn church doctrine, you'd realize how ridiculous you sound. The church does not force hatred towards homosexuals. Of course Jesus didn't preach about BC being wrong, it was hardly commonplace at the time. It's an interpretation of Jesus' teachings for the modern world. This is like arguing against a brick wall. Just because you believe something is immoral doesn't mean you're denying people their humanity. I'll be the first to admit that the church has made mistakes (many of them) throughout its long history. Show me an organization that has not. Please, do. It's hard for people to see - but when you beleive in something like religion, apostolate, or missionary work (forcing down people's throats) is part in parcel with belief. I'll use an example. Let's say you found out that tomorrow a virus would hit the world that would anihilate the entire population in hours. The only way to protect against this virus is to drink a litre of ketchup the day before. You know this for certain fact. Sounds ridiculous, right? To many, it is ridiculous. But I ask you this? What would you do? Would you drink your litre of ketchup and be the last man alive on earth? Or would you try to get the word out, to tell people..because you feel you have a duty to humanity to save them from something that could be avoided? Is it a desire to force people to be like you? Or is it an overwhelming urge to do something good for your fellow man based on your beleifs? The failure to recognize the motivation behind religion is one of the biggest failures of contemporary liberal society. Add that in with a tendency to hold the church to far higher standards than any other organization while simultanously discrediting them as an organization better than any other leads to ever increasing slandering of the church's motives.

Happy birthday, nice topic as well :)

:cool: I also missed a lot of the game but that was because I was distracted giving and taking high fives all the way though. Damn habs fans :( To be honest, they're probably my second favourite team in the league though so w/e.

Ahh yes, bring up the corner cases to discredit the entire organization. Fantastic.

It's not really a departure from any previous teaching as he makes it quite clear the use of condoms on the situations mentioned show only a "progression to morality" rather than an achievement of it.

Can't you not disguise with the new dagger? You have to behave like you're on the other team..personally I like to come in disguised as spy with the DR, wait till someone "kills" me, then redisguise as someting else. By that time I'd be behind their lines so it looks normal running with them.

Interesting. Good to see the 27 billion is at least doing something and the world hasn't been destroyed yet.

21 shots in three hours is basically alcohol poisoning for someone of average tolerance. If he does a shot an hour, drinks a lot of water/eats a lot of food/rests for most of the time he'd probably be fine.

I'm on the bus 2 hours a day + a half hour drive mon-fri. Add another hour of bus to that if I go see my girlfriend.

I'll take a YET. I have crates galore. Alright, I'm Bentomat on Steam. Wait I just realized I got the initials wrong, it's YER. I'm not sure if there's a different weapon called YET. And no crates please, I've spent enough money on this game already. Do you have any decent doubles? Maybe L'Etranger or a C&D with something random. The server thing fixed itself. removed is my steam id. I'll see what I have, I think I have some doubles.

I'll take a YET. I have crates galore.