AlexRose

Just because you seem kinda new and I rarely post here, I'm rayoxide. Nice to meet you. I honestly do not care, I do not believe in swearing and I believe if people dont want to be insulted they should toughen up or pay more attention. However, as much of a point you do bring up, you dont need to raise a skill to get runite armour. You have to raise your herblore skill to get these potions, though. Which is the reason I find this stupid. Raising your herblore skill to make an untradeable potion is very different to raising your cash pile to buy the potions themselves. Hi! I'm not really new, I just tend to lurk a lot and take rather long breaks from Runescape. I'll drop the insult thing, although I don't really believe that "they deserve it" is a true justification. You do require a skill for runite; you need 40 defense. But for the moment, let's hypothetically assume that it requires one defense, but costs 100 Million GP (or whatever it takes for 96 Herblore). What would be the difference between Runeite and Herblore be then? You still must put the effort into raising one hundred million GP for the Runeite, so why would you not be rewarded for gaining 96 herblore for the same effort? Because you had to raise a skill? You put in the exact same effort (if not more so for taking the time to raise your Herblore), so what does gaining levels have to do with anything? And what is the difference between training herblore and raising a cash pile anyway? :mrgreen:

Oh dear I am sorry if I offended you, by apparently pointlessly insulting someone who disregarded the whole point of my post and jumped to conclusions on what I meant. Please accept my apologies. And have some flowers. And here is a card for you to get better. As for the rest of your post, you're way off. Since everything else there is buyable it's fair game. Noone is going to buy 90 or so herblore for these. They should just be tradeable and somehow profitable. Then why don't you just tell him he has misinterpreted your argument and provide evidence supporting your assertion? And yes, I know you at least attempted to do so, but insults are completely unnecessary, impolite, and calls into question the validity of your argument. On a rather related note, you seem to have missed the point of my argument. I am arguing that in this game, effort should directly be related to reward. If you put the effort into raising the extra 200k to buy the runeite armor over the mithril, then you deserve the bonuses of the extra defensive stats over the person who was only willing to raise 20k. If you put the effort into raising 100 million to obtain 96 herblore, then you deserve the extra stat changes over the person who was not able/willing to obtain/spend this money. If you spend the time and effort into obtaining level 99 Strength, then you deserve to hit higher than the person who was only spent the time and effort into obtaining level 60 Strength. In your own post, you said that "Noone is going to buy 90 or so herblore for these". Please explain how buying Runite armour to boost your defensive stats and buying level 96 Herblore to boost all of your stats is fundamentally different.

Before I go on, I decided your post was wrong the moment I saw you felt the need to assert your position by pointless insults, and not by rational discussion. Since when was there a rule that forbade combat and non-combat skills from being benifical to each other? Those skillers have put in an effort to raise their herblore level to such extreme standards; it is my opinion that if they are willing to put the effort into raising levels that would benifical to them, then they deserve a reward, which is an advantage over other people who have not quite put in as much effort into the game. If I raise 250k for Runite armour, would it not make sense that I would have an advantage over a person who only raised 20k for Mithirl armour?

Fixed it for you... Ah, thank you for those corrections. Also: 74-75-136-59699942 I laughed hysterically at the first page, before someone had to go and tell everyone what he was doing. Very, very subtle.

Fixed Jagex's post for them.

Alright, let's start correlating effort with reward now, to reward those people who are devoted to our game. Well, hold on, it might become a disadvantage to the people who are unwilling to put the effort into obtaining our high level content. That's true, and we can't have people unhappy. Maybe if we keep them in, but restrict them from any PvP games, then people will still be happy. Brillant! You can tell it's a terrible update by the fact that people posting on the first page of the thread aren't trying to get the trivial first post, and posting nonsensal things that do not in anyway reflect their true opinion like "Woot!" and "GJ", but rather negative feedback right from the start.

I guess you believe every propaganda from Jagex. The 5% range is price setting. Also, there is hardcoded floors and caps. If players set the prices, there would be no limits at all. Since there is complete anonymity of traders in GE, the limits are totally unnecessary. Real world trading requires direct player-to-player trading. Even if there was no limits in GE, it would not be possible to e.g. sell a party hat for 1 gp to a gold buyer. The seller would get the correct amount of gold and the buyer would get nothing. You might have noticed that if you sell an item for min price, you sometimes receive more money. That's because the system always picks the best available offer. The limits do not prevent players from losing too much money from price crashes, as the items will simply become unsellable until they reach the new equilibirium prices (or unbuyable in the case of skyrocketing). Since I'm on a computer with the tiniest keyboard in the universe, I'll make this brief. When I'm on a computer with a better keyboard, I might go into more detail. This would work far, far better than the current system we have. In theory, this idea solves the problem of free trade, RWT, and manipulation. Our current system solves the second problem, but is weak to provide free trade and (almost as a direct consequence) prevention of player manipulated prices. In practice, manipulation would still be possible, but in a much more obvious, tedious, and safer way. With enough people, it would be possible to "set" a new price average, have it become the general standard, and make a profit from the old average you bought the item from. Such steps, however, would have to be small and subtle, and would require more timing and cordnation than the current system ( because prices update more or less instantly in the new system, everyone would more or less have to input their offers at the same time). Even better, manipulation in this matter would be limited to one "step", as you would have to re-buy your items after each attempt. 20% jumps in prices would not benefit the clan unless they made an item jump in one attempt, which would more or less be impossible. The real problem, and possibly the only major problem, is that this system would allow RWT to occur. All the preparation required is to offer a stupendous price for something worthless, like two million GP for a boot, and then have a RWTer complete that offer. The transfer is very safe for the payer because if some insane person completes the deal, then he gets two million anyway, and the RWTer doesn't even need to give away his money! The easiest solution would be to simply to impose a 100% ceiling, or not allow offers above double the averaged price (so that extremely low valued items are not stuck at 1-2 GP, the rule would be changed for items under 30 GP to not allowing offers 15 GP above average). That doesn't solve the problem *completely*, but it's certainly a good start. I have other ideas too, but this keyboard is really annoying me, so I'll leave off with this, and a "for the love of god, do not ignore this problem Jagex". Night.

1. I'm worse on the whip part. I borrow mine. :lol: 2. Why the f*** would you buy dragon? I'm not quite sure why people hate on barrows so much; I can get five million gold just by killing green dragons in the time it takes to degrade. Obsidian shield sucks as well, though cape is pretty good, considering I don't have a 99. Pfft. Whip+Rune Defender is better than godswords in a lot of situations. Godswords are fun to use for a while, just for the hits, but as a general weapon it's not so great. I'm the total opposite of this. Defence is one of the most useful stats in the game; it is the stat that tells what you can or cannot do. Strength and Attack are good as well, but it's useless agaisnt bosses if you have 45 defence. Up until a month ago I never realized this with 50 defence, and then I was like "Screw it, I need to get this up". Now, at 73 defence (Don't laugh 99ers, seriously, don't make me tell on you), I can actually do stuff. Attack ftw. I am one of those people who refuses to train a skill unless it serves some practical purpose. Cooking is so useless it's not even funny; I stopped at level 51, just so I could use Chef's Delight and do Hero's Quest. Just getting a 99 for the sake of a 99 is stupid in my opinion. I'll be frank, I'm not too fond of questing. I enjoy the plot, and actually read the diolouge, but I so hate going to one side of runescape to get one item of unimportance, then return, only to get another item of stupidity, and return. Take: I loved Recruitment Drive, I liked One Small Favor up until the point where it just got stupidly long (it should have looped back to the guy at the beginning as another favor "No, I don't have your logs, but can I please have a Shilo hunting bow?" :lol: ), Fremmrick Trails was alright, and I wanted to shoot myself when I had to get the sap in Itachin's Little Helper. I hope I am nthin like tat... o godd, it hapennnin! svwe uslfsssssss..... Brng wdly bk nwwww 00mgmggg!!!!11!1!! *huggles Stealing Creation* Castle Wars is awesome, don't diss that. I do go to Soul Wars, but that's mainly because I actually enjoy the game of it. Or I just slaughter a bunch of freeloaders, that's also fun. I also enjoy a nice visit to the Games Rooms and, oh who am I kidding, who the f*** goes there? :lol: Alright, fine, I do have my Joe there. HAPPY? Again, I am one of those people that does not grind something if there is not a use to it. Why should I grind and spend hours training Theiving if I don't have a use for it? Why should I go through an obsticale course over and over again if I never will actually use the agility levels (I'm actually planning to get this up, if Brimhaven does not turn out to be a massive grind)? That's just my mentality of it. I'm more Joe than most people here are (or claim to be). That's probably because I am in these sterotypical levels (low-mid 90s) as of now. So we'll see what happens. =/

:lol: Though (in cerealness) we might see different metal cannonballs. That would be a mildly interesting reward. Who knows though. And who says Jagex can only release one dragon reward in a quest line? The next quest will probably be a Master quest, and most of the quests forementioned to give dragon items are Master quests. We might get a dragon item in both subsquent quests, or even all three! (Dragonballs, Warhammer, Pickaxe)

What about the Fremmirick Trails? You have to beat someone in a drinking contest to get a vote. And when you can't do that, you cheat, using a cherry bomb as a distraction. :lol: Well, I can honestly say that 13 year olds are not that stupid. They're not going to drink just because they beat a quest with it. They're at least somewhat aware of the consquenses.

Well, seeing I have no way of actually paying for members (Having the money is another story) without my parents, I'm at the mercy of them. I've always wanted to be members, but sometimes just didn't have the grades (Straight As or straight back to F2P) or courage to ask. Almost everyone who likes this game would probably be willing to pay the six dollars a month if they could.

Well after "debating" *coughflamingcough* with compfreak for five pages, let it be known I got membership again. No more "freeloading" for me. :lol: OT: It could also be multipule ways, like have 70 combat OR 900 total level OR play for 600 hours. But reallly, who knows. I would hope the requirments are mildly high, but I don't think there are 250,000 F2Pers with above 80 combat stats or 1000 total level. Perhaps they're letting former members post as well, regardless of levels.

But see, intentions (context) and words are two different things. You're absolutely right that you said the same two things, but he meant it in a positive way to f2p, you meant it in a negative way. You didn't really counter his agrument that it's a postive factor, other than by just requoting your post. But truth be told, I really did not make that clear at all. . But see, almost all updates do this... Oh wait, you're agruing that the forums wouldn't? Well, I guess I could argue that it would give f2p a voice and a forum, thus making the expirence more enjoyable (by suggested updates and such), but in practical busniess terms, you're most likely correct. However, I do believe that F2P deserves more of a voice, and I will stand by that. It's not like they're taking a month just for this or anything. Yeah sure, they have to put some time and effort, but it won't be game breaking for you or anything, especially since you don't really like the RSOF that much. It's easy enough to detract members by taking away something (*cough* wilderness), but an update that is passive (as in, won't affect it unless you want it to) to key gamepoints will almost always not detract members. Most of this argument has been (logical) opinion and nothing more. The graph is the only real evidence we have, and wasn't exactly conclusive on either point. I need to go, so I can't respond to more.

Why should I concede if he's being an idiot then? I do realize, however, I have taken this argument way too far, and for that I apologize for being an idiot and not stopping three pages ago. :(

COOOONTEEEEXT. Just because he said it, does NOT MEAN it's the exact same thing. BUT THEY DO. They support the player base, might become P2P, and even if they don't, tell friends who might. I told three friends who eventually became members before I did. Not at all. Right now, FTPers have to communicate on forums like this one. Opening them up to the cesspool that is the RSOF isn't going to do anything to convince them to buy members; posting privileges are. What? So your saying a supposedly horrid (in your own words, a "cesspool") forum will somehow attract members, and that increased member to F2Per interaction won't? Do you wonder why I do not want to respond to your posts? Again, COOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONTEXT. You were agruing F2P contributes nothing except the possibility of membership, and they're worthless. I'm agruing that they're not. And hell with it, how does having the forums dissuade membership? Are people honestly going to buy membership simply because of the forums? They're going to sign up because of a "cesspool" forum, not because of the twenty times as much content they recieve. Face it, membership will not decrease simply because high level F2P gets a forum. What's the point of a forum if you don't actually play the game it supports? Alright, I lied. Stupid OCD. -.- He does indeed. I really do not feel like beating this point into the ground further. +1 cookie for you. Phenoix

I'm not even going to respond to that. You just repeated all your agruments again. Closing arguments: You're short-sighted, you're selfish, and you're a jackass. Thank you, good night. :lol:

Alright, now you didn't read. It is all about context.. You said F2Pers contributed nothing, he was responding to that. Nothing more, nothing less. So your mad that Jagex is using your money to pay for people who don't pay, but in turn help the company out more than it hurts? And instead of devoting all of the resources to members, they actually have to support their F2P base, which benefits them? See: Selfish agrument. Don't you think that drastically increased interaction with members on a forum MIGHT convince a few people to go P2P? And don't you think that updates that keep people in F2P will convince them that it's an awesome game and go to P2P? And really, if you're so upset about it, then don't give them your money anymore. :roll:

Not at all, his entire argument was a rant about how I ignored the fact that it convinced people to sign up for PTP - the exact argument I made as the only reason to keep FTP. He obviously hadn't read my post, so I did him a favor and bolded the applicable parts. That's not the point. He was responding to how you said that F2Per's were useless and paracitic (and sucessfully), and all you did was requote your post. Not exactly a stellar agrument. Which is what I just said, minus replacing "mad" with "annoyed". AGAIN, for every usually minor (exception is again last year because of rebalencing PvP) update they get, you get ten. Get over it. Ok.... That's not the point. The point is you're being explixitly being negative to F2Pers and calling them freeloaders. Freeloaders implies they give nothing back, but they do. They might possibly become members, they give advertising revenue, they tell other people to play the game and expand it, they help the P2P economy. They do not directly bring revenue, but in the long run it is benifical. Don't you think Jagex would have stopped F2P if it didn't?

Again, see the part about negative context, and why "freeloaders" is the wrong word. And that's not even what I was meaning. I was only that he's sterotyping every f2per into a noob and a beggar, not that we're not freeloaders. At the beginning, I anknowledged that may be true, but it really doesn't matter. As I. They said "expirence" but that could mean combat level, total level, total expirience, game hours, pretty much anything. My guess would be either game hours or total expirence, but who knows. =/

It might be a wise idea to read my posts before trying to argue against them. Also, what's a wingy imbecile? I'm not sure either, but you do realize he responded to that EXACT post? And you've made absolutely no point against that post simply by requoting the post and automatically assuming it's right? That's your problem, not mine, but when it crosses over into my money paying for your gameplay, I don't like it. I'm not mad, and I know that some money is required to pull people into PTP, but I don't like it when it crosses the line into simply updating FTP for being FTP. Again, you've said completely nothing except state you opinion again. You're mad at Jagex because they're updating a portion of a game they have said multipule times is not just a demo/salespitch, but a valid portion of their game? I think expirenced, high-level F2Pers deserve a chance to speak to the public (like here). And see, you're not even mad that they might spam the forums (which I hope to God they won't) or that they'll degrade the community further, which is actually a vaid argument. It's just that you're mad that you don't get all the updates to yourself, and that everything is to you. It's the forums, deal with it. You still have about twenty times as much stuff to do as we do. Freeload: To impose upon another's generosity or hospitality without sharing in the cost or responsibility involved (Source: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/freeload). Sorry, but you ARE freeloading, in the fullest sense of the word. I never said we weren't freeloaders. That entire post was basically stop being a jackass and share. Yes, we are freeloaders in a loose sense. We technically are when we play 95% of flash games. But freeloader has a malignant implication; Jagex still benifits from us playing, whether from advertising or actually becoming P2P. So, if it makes you happy, yes, we are freeloaders. Does it change anything? Not at all.

And who's to say that US F2P's were not P2P'ers? I was, up until awhile back when I cut Membership. Besides, HIGH LEVEL PLAYERS usually have been on RS along time. I have loads of high level friends who are F2P's and have been playing almost since RS' birth. So, shut your mouth and don't slag off F2P'ers. We are players too. Erm, you just told me to stop having an argument, and then proceed to personally attack him. : Anyway, so you're mad that you pay for maybe four updates a year (more last year, but that was mainly because they were rebalancing PvP) that we get for free? And maybe my parents don't want to spend five dollars a month on an online game they think is pointless anymore (yes, I know they're cheapskapes (SP?), but that's beside the point). And even if what you said about F2P is true, we still play the game as well, whether you like it or not. So don't just automatically assume we're all freeloaders, niavely grouping a million online players into a self-fabricated sterotype, and learn to actually share instead of selfishlly sticking to a superitory ideal that is fabricated on the sole fact that you pay a quarter more every day than we do. *whew*. /rant And I say twelve year old not as an actual age (and for the record, I'm 14), but as an insult to maturity. Just to clarify.

Ahem. Ahem. Ahem. Actually, total expirence does not equal intelligence. I've met plenty of level 110s who are mean, flammatory, and have no sense of egish at al u now. So we'll still most likely have a noob increase. But then again, it will still be much better than letting everyone post. That would be horrid. :shock:

Oh yeah, can someone go tell the elitist 12 year olds who are being selfish [puncture]s and screaming about how all f2pers are noobs and beggars, regardless of level, to [bleep] off and learn to share every once in a while? K thanks. : Well, I for one won't be saying any *COUGHACHIEVMENTCAPESANDALSOATTACKPOTIONSBECAUSENOONEUSESTHEM INP2PANDWOULDOPENUPANEWECONOMYFORBEGINNERHERBLORERSCOUGH* Whew, excuse me. :lol:

Hmm, does level 81 with 1100+ total level (former member) count as a "high level" F2P? (I mean, I don't think there are 250,000 level 90 F2Pers) If so, F*** YEAH!

Being F2P, I hate how Revs hit so much harder than we can. 26 damage with mage? 22 damage with range? 28 damage with melee? Would it kill you to adjust their hits for F2p? Also, their range can go off the screen... How is that fair? Oh, and the fact their drops are worthless. All in all, reverants are terrible.