AlexRose

There have been a few suggestions for this problem. The 2 easiest would be: 1) Some kind of teleport available to those where the cape is outside the F2P map... The only thing you can do while there is talk to the one with the cape. 2) Move the 7 or so capes not located in the F2P map. The only thing I can see that is stopping them is the economic standpoint, which I understand. Or we could just get the Lumbridge guide to give the F2P capes. No need to overcomplicate things. In my opinion, F2p deserves the right to show off their 99s more so than their inability to pay for the game. For example, F2p does not "deserve" the rest of the game, because they lack the ability to support Jagex. However, that is an extreme example. That argument does not always work in specific cases, because even though F2P doesn't pay money, they still support Jagex by providing a base or "demo" to P2P and advertising money, and thus have some level of "deservement". I think in this case, they at least deserve the benefit of a complete game, and showing off your achievments would certainly be one of those things, among others (a balanced combat system). So please, please, PLEASE stop with the "F2p doesn't deserve it because they don't directly pay Jagex" argument. Honestly, I am so tired of hearing this argument, and this often being the only argument, in every thread that suggests that F2p should have something.

Even in a milder and inversal form, I would expect better than the "Well if you hate it so much, why do you play?" argument from a moderator. They do get recongition; if not from awards, than from the fanbase who supports them. But, they just don't deserve this particular recongition. That's it. Sorry, I'm not very inventive when it comes to arguments and debates like this. :P You may be right to some extent, but if you listen to quite a lot of the fan base you'd hear a lot more 'OMG JAGEX SUCK', but that's an entirely different thread. I just think they do deserve the award. They've put a lot of hard work into the game and Runescape is one of the definitive MMO games. I disagree, but we're at the point of either "they're awesome enough to get it" or "they're not awesome enough to get it". So I respect your opinion, even though I don't agree with it. :P To another 10 years of (semi-) excellence!

Even in a milder and inversal form, I would expect better than the "Well if you hate it so much, why do you play?" argument from a moderator. They do get recongition; if not from awards, than from the fanbase who supports them. But, they just don't deserve this particular recongition. That's it.

How about Breeding, which would allow you to create new monsters you could "farm"; or have the ability to manage old ones (personal iron dragon cage?). Or you could create new summoning familiars for yourself to use, and give it specific traits using a complicated breeding chart that inherits traits (PackYip).

1. And replaced it with a system that created massive inflation, effectively creating the same effect RWT did beforehand. 2. It is good that Jagex took an interest into the PvP system and allowed those markets to revive, but it was completely unessecary to introduce 76king along with it. To Bold: No, skillers merely recieve more "actual" goldpieces; they don't actually gain more profits, in the sense of gaining more spending power, because the entire market has inflated. 3. PvP was never very profitable; more often than not people actually lost money. Yet people would certainly spend the time and effort to create such accounts. Jagex's actions still do not do nearly enough to eliminate the disadvantages of 76king, which is essentially a replacement for RWTing.

If this vote was solely between Runescape and other Free/browser MMORPGs, then the total player base would more or less be an accurate assesment of the quality of game design. But again, that's not the case, for reasons just quoted above me. And let me repeat, no one is arguing the Runescape is a poor game. All that the opposition is saying is Jagex did not deserve to win this award. That's it. Well, that's your opinion.

Botany? :P

Alright, so then why should the rest of the community be so inconvinced merely to prevent the exploits of a few "dis-honorable" (in a loose sense) players? Why can't Jagex merely prevent 76king, rather than leaving the burden on their players for nearly no reward (unless you actually kill them).

Ravenkana did not in anyway mention his own opinion towards Runescape, unlike me. He merely addressed why it was a contervertial result, and why the poll was biased. You are basing your arguments off the assumption that we dislike Jagex and we are part of the group Ravenkana described. Just because I (it would be unfair to assume Revankana thinks this as well) do not believe Jagex deserves an award doesn't mean I do not enjoy the game. I'm sorry if you took that as an insult. That phrase has been misread by less observant users before, so I just wanted to be safe. That would have made for quite an amusing tangent, wouldn't it? Or maybe they think it's important to be realistic, rather than instantly favoring Jagex or scolding them. I'm not arguing simply for the sake of arguing, if that's the impression you are recieving from me. And that's exactly why this award is completely meaningless. It's a wonderful attribute, but ultimately irrvelant. The ammount of players and expansion does not directly corralate between the quality of the design and development of a game, especially when Runescape has a huge availability advantage, completely irrevelant to the actual gameplay, by default. And again, the method the award used was akin to walking into Mecca on any given day, polling random people with the questio "Are you Muslim?", and then attributing the results of that poll to the entire world. Because a person on a Runescape board's opinion is completely representative of rest of the gaming community. I'm not trying to be mean or degrading, but that's not a supporting point at all; and would be for any other person, includin myself.

That's completely true, if you take the literal meaning of the reward with a grain of salt. But you blew the point Ravenkana was adressing far out porportion to the point where you implied he was directly insulting Jagex; you we're being unfair on Ravenkana(sorry, way too tired to actually scroll down and look it up) No, Revankana explicitly said "the gamer community", not their developers. And Runescape is also held in contempt for gameplay attributes as well; do not try the "people only hate Runescape because of the graphics/players" argument. And Runescape's enjoyability, along with most MMORPG's, is dependant on player to player relations, so having a poorer (not finically, before you misread that) community could significantly affect game play in a negative way. Well, that's your opinion. :roll:

No, he merely is pointing out a major bias and error in the poll. He does not suggest that is neccessarily a terrible thing, but in the context of this poll it's a major issue. You do realize that those last points are completely irrevelant, save for your belief that they are unfounded, and you are attempting to use "stronger" points to legitimize your belief that Runescape is not made fun of. Runescape is frequently ridiculed; I know that from observation on other video game boards. Runescape is not held in high opinion, to say the least.

Because Jagex has a very large computer-oriented player base, while GTA and Fable both are playable only on consoles, and by default would not have as large of a population on the internet willing to vote as Jagex. And even if they were computer based, Runescape is more or less free of charge, while GTA and fable require a console and a fifty dollar purchase; they have a larger player base by default. In any case, I do not believe that Jagex is deserving of this reward; they have consistently introduced unbalanced, poorly implemented updates that do little to prove their competence as developers. Granted, I have noticed a significant change in the quality of their updates as of late, but certainly not deserving of a reward of any kind. But that's just my cynical opinion. ^^

It would be a wonder if they got anything accomplished following this logic; its borderline hypocritical to justify their updates with that logic, seeing that Jagex have shown no hesitation to update integrated parts of the game before. Reading between the lines, however, they basically admit that they don't want to nerf any weapons for fear of retribution from the general population. If there was an imbalance regarding the potions, then why didn't Jagex simply reduce their effectiveness (nerf them), in particular regards to the Magic Extreme? That is absolutely true, and in my opinion should be a top priority for future updates. However, Jagex has shown no regards for their increasing deprivation of the defensive skills up until this point, and surely they must have noticed this if they performed proper testing. So why didn't they make new effects that did not involve increasing damage potential in the first place (and they did open the forum for suggestions in that regard)? It just seems that they aren't thinking very clearly about the impact of updates.

That was my first thought for a counter, and that seems like such an obvious dodge that I'm stunned Jagex didn't catch onto it. Although a more efficent secenario would be the formation of tricking clans within a certain level limit, and then just "potlucking"; picking a person at random to perform the trick. At least it makes 76king somewhat more inconvienent.

You phrased that sentence as if that's not a good thing.... Ah, all right then. Thank you for that clarification. Was that the point you were attempting to prove with the rest of your post? If so, I understand where you are basing your arguments off of, and I apologize for calling you arrogant. However, my rhetorical question still stands. Why should the general Runescapian population suffer a loss in efficiency, and thus suffer, for the general profit of a few? Why should I be forced to spend the time and effort collecting secondary ingredients, when previously (before the manipulation) I could simply spend money on it in an efficient way? In other words, manipulative clans still negatively impact the Runescapian economy; yes, you can still procure the materials and eventually come up with the same product; yes, just because prices rise does not mean they are unprocurable; but it is at the cost of extra time and effort for the benefit of a few, which I believe is wrong. [Will talk more later, I have to get back to class and "learn" the math I knew two years ago. >>]

Your first assumption would be at least somewhat factual if the Grand Exchange prices were only relevant to Grand Exchange transactions. However, the prices set for the Grand Exchange also determine the prices for non- Grand Exchange transactions; thus, manipulation of the Grand Exchange pertains to transactions as a whole. Your second point is just plain arrogant; blatant manipulation of the Grand Exchange's flaws should not interfere with a person's ability to complete other tasks and goals in Runescape. If food suddenly skyrocketed in real life, would a practical solution be not to buy food anymore? No, because food is essential to everyday tasks. While manipulation in Runescape is not quite as dramatic as this example, the same principles apply. First of all, refrain from double negatives. It makes it a chore to read and understand your post. While your solution would prevent merchant clans from creating a profit, it would also mean effectively shutting down all transactions in the Runescapian economy and would resort in a bartering system of sorts. So why should we be so inconvenienced simply to counteract a negative force that should not have even existed? Why should the entire player-base suffer the consequences for the benefit of a few? Agreed, but that's something completely different.

Just a quick question; how long does the slayer boost from pies last?

The main point of this thread? Time is quite litterally money, and can therefore be converted from two seemingly irrevelant skills or time-comsuming efforts and measure the true profits of each.

And that was my argument for fourteen pages on the original thread, boiled down into a nicely dictated post. Well done.

No skill is completely useless; firemaking will always have at least some uses. The problem is whether these benefits actually justify the effort into training firemaking. I believe that is a no, mainly because the benefits you described are very circumstantal and limited in scope.

My point was that your reason of your dissent, which was that it forced players to raise large ammounts of money to unlock the full potential of their stats, could also be applied to other expensive, powerful weapons. Like the Godswords. Short Answer: No. Long Answer: Jagex should not base a decision based purely off the initial reactions of forum goers, who do not accurately reflect the opinion of the majority of Runescape and (may) possess very little intellectual forthought to their posts. However, after sufficent time has passed for players to accurately assess the impact of a new release, then Jagex should browse the forums to find well thought out arguments, and then assess the situtation for themsleves. In other words, player feedback should only be a guide for Jagex to be aware of problems, not as an absolute representation of what the players want. Shorter Answer: Jagex should not read the rants of the first week an update has come out. Once time has passed and good, accurate assements can be made, the Jagex should use player feedback, but not as a reason for changing something.

Abridged version of his post, for who lack the time to read such well thought out arguments in this golden age of communication.

You seemed to have had several grammatical errors in your post; it should be more legible now.

We've already had a constructive thirteen page debate on this back in the orginal thread. >_>

My first thoughts are that is a really good idea. The obvious benefit is that it makes all the combat "classes" (I use this in the loosest of terms, being that there is no real class system in Runescape) directly based off of two seperate combat skills. This means that each combat skill would be equally represented in the combat triangle, and would thus provide the grounds to expand the role of Magic and Range. in the For Magic, not only does it provide an excuse for the attack requirements of staves, but provides a distinct seperation between those who use magic solely for non-combat (in which case they would have a low Attack level) and those who use magic for combat. A problem that could arise is that Attack and Strength would be over-represented in the combat triangle, but I don't really see why that is a disadvantage. And don't worry about realistic logic in a fantasy game too much. Why doesn't Strength make me cut wood faster, for example. ;) Not to be a complete idealist, but since we're in a debate thread rather than stating pessemistic (but probably true) facts, that's somewhat irrevelant. If that's a bad thing, then Jagex shouldn't love Melee. Simple as that.