AlexRose

1. What is the Cooking level, with guantlets, that you stop burning salmon? 2. Is there any general formula regarding when you stop burning things? Thanks in advance!

Thanksgiving was first celebrated by the pilgrims. The pilgrims used the Mayflower to get to the U.S. The Mayflower was a ship that used the power of wind to travel. Using wind requires sails......... Z0MGAWD SAIIILLINNNNG!!!!!!!11111#!@!@#$!@!!!!#!@##

A weildable Turkey Drumstick would be neat. :P Access to a "Turkey Island" where turkey's roam all year. A turkey Head Hat or just a Turkey beak which you can operate which then makes you do a part of the chicken dance while saying "Gobble" and making a gobble sound. Use your imagination. ;) Won't you take me to Turkeytown Cause this is turkey! Turkey night! And no one's gonna save you from the fowl who crawl the night! You know it's turkey! Turkey night! You're gonna use the leftovers for turkey, jerky tonight!!!! This thread is now about turkey-renditions of songs.

Yes it is. I'd imagine the person who played (on members) for two years contributed considerably more than the guy who played for two months. Simliar logic with F2p. And I do believe that the high-score's lack of reward was the very reason Jagex decided to implement the skill capes in the first place (quick-chat wasn't implemented, but it's a rather poor substitute for a skillcape).

No. You may have not ignored my posts on the subject, but just restated the same point over and over again without actually refuting anything I said; like my very first response, for instance: I go on to explain (somewhere) that F2pers who have put in the time and effort into achieving a level 99, because of the (small) contribution to the Jagex company, deserve some reward, and that skillcapes would be a sufficent reward. Oh, and I think the trial-period is a fantastic idea, more so than the Gnomecopters or introducing skillcapes.

That sounds like a good requirement, but we could make it slighty more interesting. How about after killing a Cave Crawler, you must get to the end of the cave in a certain amount of time (in which there is plenty of time to spare if you used the shortcuts, but otherwise impossible if you do not) and damage a kurask? The final requirement could be removed if neccesary (or changed to attempt to attack a kurask with a correct weapon, so that crowding wouldn't be an issue), but it adds an additional high-ish level requirement and overall makes the task more interesting than "use a shortcut". @Me_hate_Libs: Most of those are really... poor for Elite rewards, although some would be pretty decent for the lower leveled ones. But the Seers effect is a fantastic idea; not only does it fit well with the theme of Seers, but would be a very convinent yet balanced effect. :D

Why though? If they were serious about wanting a skillcape they'd join members to get one. Anyone who stays in F2P getting 99's probably has no intention of joining P2P. So why do they 'deserve' it? After all Jagex allows them to gain those 99's for free. Is that not enough in itself?[ That's exactly why Jagex would have a financial incentive to introduce skillcapes into F2p, which you denied when responding to me. They "deserve" it because they have invested their time into supporting the company. We seem to be going around in circles.

It did start out discussing the spells, but there seems to be a general agreement that introducing the Surge spells would be too radical, not to mention would still fail to address several main weaknesses the Magic system in F2p has. So yes, I think we're now discussing how to strengthen F2p magic to be competitive with other classes above the level 45ish.

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH, WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH, Cry some more, little baby.

Cry some more, little baby. Anyway, here are a few "Hard" Lumbridge rewards, assuming that the hard tasks are P2p, that I came up with. These would not all be included in the ring, obviously. Lumbridge Ring acts as an enchanted Ring of Charos/a Ring of Wealth/Ring of Life ( ROL effect would be toggable). Relaxes restrictions on items brought to Entrana. Armour and all other non-combat devices are allowed on the island using this ring; basically everything but items with the ability to be wielded in the hands are premitted. Gives an additional run energy charge, PLUS an extra charge for every 20 agility levels the person has (I.E a person with 62 agility would be granted seven usages a day). Gives an additional free 10 high-alchs. Culimancer chest gives an increased stock. Bob gives a 30% discount on repairs. The farmer by the tree patch would give a free 2-4 bird's nest a day. An additional 10% chance is added to the existing Runecrafting bonus. Cabbage-port teleport toggable to Lumbridge teleport. Some stat changes could either simply increase the current bonuses, or add a -2 weight effect, similiar to the Boots of Lightness.

I remember you qeltar. Back when I was twelve and wrote at approximately the same level. :P Ah, and how will F2pers be covinced to purchase the much broader member's game with an insufficent combat system? Obviously, people continue to do so, but a balanced combat system might convince, or at least influence, willing F2pers to revert to the members game. So perhaps a better question is would it be to Jagex's benefit if they implemented new magical updates for F2p. Agreed, actually. I would perfer this more moderate approch over Surge Spells. It's debatable, however, whether the Surge spells would be overpowering. Keep in mind, however, that a mage's main firepower comes from introduction of spells, not simply raising your magic level. F2p Melee does not require level 80 equipment to hit into the 30s, whereas magic is dependent on the level of their "equipment": spells.

Oh boy. We had a 54 page discussion on whether F2p should get an (more-or-less) immaterial goal. This is going to head in interesting directions. But actually, I think introducing the Surge spells would actually balance the F2p combat triangle. There's no modifiers in F2p, so the max hit would remain at 28. That sounds reasonable enough for magic; slow, but high, and high throughout the levels, and hitting through rune armour. And the introduction of blood runes to F2p, plus the extra demand the death runes would bring, may counter-balance any price reductions from any possible runecrafting surge (pun intended) that may continue in the coming months. And yet introducing long term goals that could be made potentially much easier by switching to P2p, not to mention giving the impression of a balanced combat system, may convince many more to join members. I believe that any update that will convince F2pers of a complete game will pay for itself by the additional members that would sign up. Cue jr arguing that this should not occur because Jagex didn't introduce it from the start in 5... 4..... 3..... 2..... 1....

Read the Bold jrhairy, it essentially answers all your questions. Anyway, I personally disagree with removing the stats, as I believe people who have put more effort into the game should have an advantage over people who did not. But that's an entirely different matter. I see where your getting at, but perhaps this gaint void of updates, combined with faster training methods, may convince a few to purchase members,for the exact same reasons you listed? Possibly more so than the people who would become discouraged and leave Runescape sooner? And doesn't the "Jealousy" effect apply to member's worlds, albeit with less extreme consequences due to faster training methods? If we assume that the large majority of F2pers who would make an effort for a 99 are unable to purchase members, however, then it is quite possible you could be exactly correct.

Bolded to remind myself on your definition of skilled, mainly because I fell into a definition trap and wrote two paragraphs defining skilled as the person with the previous higher total level before I realized what you were actually adressing. So by your definition, the more "skilled" player is the one who is more efficent with his/her time, and that by adding complexity, the game becomes "harder", correct? And because efficency is a dervived from a comparison of other player's efficency, then making 99 Herblore take twenty minutes and 30k cash would technically not make the game more difficult, so long as a clever and thoughtful player could get 99 Herblore in ten minutes and 10k cash. However, this would drastically slash the effiency of players who spent, say 300 million GP, on formerly getting Herblore, would make it easier for other people to match the cut effiency of the 99 Herblorists, and would thus make the game "easier" Furthermore, we are assuming the goal of Runescape is to be more efficent than everyone else. While that might be a valid definition for grand part of Runescape, possibly even a majority, there are other goals as well. We could define 99 Herblore itself to be a goal, and cutting the time it takes to 20 minutes would make the goal "easier".

Do you agree with this statement? "Jagex is perfect, and so is all their updates". That is essentially the argument you were attempting to build, and I believe that is false. It does not matter at all what Jagex decides on the issue, it is whether F2p actually deserves the update . Hypothetical questions still raise points that need to be addressed, in which case how your logic is faulted. If that was the situation, and you tried applying your logic, you would be wrong. And because that would be a nearly identical situation today (if Jagex decided to release skill capes to F2p in the future), your logic is flawed. Right, but would F2p deserve the updates they whine about? In this case, they do. To the last sentence, see below two replies. But they do support Jagex! Not as nearly as much as Members do, but a significant amount nonetheless. That still gives them some representation in their updates. How else do you think all the other free games online support themselves? Exactly. Of course F2p wants member's content! That's the case even now. How do you think a F2p would respond if you legitimately promised him membership? But you see, it doesn't matter, because they don't actually deserve all of members. But they do deserve skillcapes. Thus, Jagex should ignore the ludicrous requests, say godswords, and implement the reasonable requests, like skillcapes. So tell me, does F2p deserve skillcapes? @erewhon: We're talking about the implemention the updates. @troacctid: Good points. I'll discuss them later (in 1-2 hours)

Could you bring them up again please? I can't even follow where this thread went. >.>

That would certainly be a difficult solution if you were somehow unable to pay for membership (and I am not just referring to the inability to pay; I had to convince my parents to pay for my membership until I was able to pay directly myself). Again, it does not matter in this argument if Jagex wants skillcapes in F2p or not . Please stop assuming that Jagex's initial decisions are without fault. If Jagex wanted to reset everyone's level back to level 1, would you consider that a wise decision? Whether Jagex wants an update isn't relevant in a discussion if the community deserves it. But F2p doesn't have skillcapes. And I fail to see what putting an idea into practice implies, other than gaining a greater knowledge of the impact of the update. So let's say I travel back to 2006, and say that Summoning will never occur, because surely Jagex would have released it, or at least inform us of their opinion on it, if it was truly a great idea. And surely F2p would have received skillcapes by now if it had been a great update! Again, whether an update is actually implemented in the game (or conversely, not implemented in the game) does not affect whether it should be in the game. If people are whining about updates that should actually be in the game, then they are right. If they are whining about an update that should not be in the game, then they're wrong. But for the moment, I'll drop that. Let's say that the current F2p included a level cap of level 20 for all skills, included weapons only up to steel, and included no quest or PvP system. Would you support an update that would take that hypothetical F2p to more-or-less what it currently is today? The reason skillcapes should be in F2p is that F2pers who have worked hard enough for a level 99 should enjoy the benefits of skillcapes. The reason the Bandos Godsword and Summoning are not in F2p is because the F2p's contribution to the Jagex Company is not sufficient enough to warrant such rewards.

Statisically, you are correct; a high level would be more likely have a far greater understanding of the game than a low one. However, that does not always hold true, and must therefore be assessed on a discussion to discussion basis. So for the purposes of discussion, everyone should simply ignore levels and instead refute arguments on the basis of whether they're actually right or wrong. If you are a high level, then by all means use evidence from your experiences to support your points, but do not make a player's level a valid supporting argument. Again, that doesn't mean that they have no knowledge or right to discuss updates they are unable to use. I am nowhere near using the Extreme Potions, and yet I am still able to comment and debate on Jagex's decision to remove them from PvP. This goes for everyone. Stop talking about your levels and begin discussing the actual debate topic.

Explain how you mean by more of an attraction if you give it to them in the first place? You haven't refuted anything because if you were correct, Jagex would have taken your stance on this issue and gave F2P capes. So you're incorrect. My reasoning was that the introduction of skill capes would encourage detrimined F2pers to train skills. As they are most likely aware, it is far, far easier to obtain a level 99 with membership than without. Thus, the promise of an easier 99 would be an incentive to become a member, most likely far more of an incentive than if the capes remained in members worlds. And Jagex, of course, has always made educated and well-balanced decisions on updates, and that all content that is not currently in the game should never be introduced. Which, according to your definition, would include me as well. Although looking back on your post, I can see your phrasing did not necessarily imply I was part of the group. But the tangible idea of Summoning was still present, just like the tangible idea of skillcapes becoming f2p is present in this debate. So let's assume Jagex decided to introduce skill capes to F2p as well as members with the original update; would you support the update then, because Jagex implemented the idea from the initial update? Actually, I agree with you. In fact, I think this should be taken a step further. Surely F2p doesn't actually deserve Magic; they get what the pay for, after all. So I think we should remove magic from F2p; if they want the benefits of teleports and binds, they should pay. If they're not happy, they can just leave. You know, I really don't even see the point of letting F2p off Tutorial Island. They have a fantastic introduction to the game there, so why should we even bother providing them with servers? If they're not happy with it, they can just go on and play a different game! The point of that stream of sarcasm was to illustrate the fault in your logic regarding the "where does it stop" argument. Your argument, while at a certain point of generosity to F2p will hold merit, is flawed because it relies on an extreme situation to be valid in this case. I'm certain you do not feel the same way about F2p as the imaginary poster in the above paragraph does, but you also cannot assume the hypothetical extreme reaction from the inverse of above (the introduction of more content for F2p)! You are not fairly assessing F2p's reaction to updates. And yes, there is a definite cutoff to the introduction of F2p material, I accept that. But the introduction of skillcapes would not remotely breach that cutoff.

Yes, Skillcapes are presently an attraction to members, I'm not denying that. But the point I'm trying to make is that skillcapes would be more of an attraction to members in F2p than leaving it remaining in members. Again, you have restated the argument that I have refuted with my post without contributing a counter to my argument. Enough with the stereotyping bull and the elitist, phobic and general PC crap. I havent got anything against F2P. I just see a few players on a forum who want more than their given lot and that Jagex owes them something but they pay nothing. As far as this 'devotion' goes, F2Pers are lucky to have it in the first place considering most other games are on a trial basis for those who don't want to pay. You want it, you pay for it. If Jagex thought F2P deserved skillcapes they'd have had them a long time ago. They haven't so enough said really. That should answer Sonics post too, and yes you are a whinger. If you don't like it either get members, quit or be happy with what you have. Your assumption that I am a whiner is rather strange, considering that I am a full paying member to Runescape and would possess no 99s to even show off the capes in F2p. To Bold: I could apply the same logic to pre-construction, or any update, really. If your logic was true, I could argue back in 2006 that Summoning would never be released, because surely if Jagex wanted to include Summoning, they would have certainly at least informed us of plans. Besides, whether or not Jagex approves the idea is completely irrevelant to whether the idea is valid. Before I respond to the F2p part, I would like you to answer this question: Assuming there would be no consequences to the member's playstyle (all materials F2p introduced to the game would be substituted in some other fashion), would you support the removal of F2p? As much as I enjoyed F2p, it was still not an absolutely perfect game; and judging from the Rants forum, nor is members. I'm not demanding that skillcapes become F2p, just as I am not whining about the issue. I merely believe it is a perfectly reasonable suggestion, that has far more postive effects than negative, that I would like to see come into fruitation. That is my motive. Please explain to me how P2p is exempt from your logic in Bold. The problem with your Dragon Scimitar anology is that Skill Capes do not ultimately affect the general play of a f2per; the methods used to obtain the 99 remain the same. Dragon Scimitars, conversely, would dramatically affect F2p gaming, for fairly obvious reasons.

That's exactly why it is an incentive, maybe not the main reason, but incentives do add up. First of all, it's Alex Rose. Secondly, you have taken my quote far out of context. As implied by the sentence prior to that one, I meant that a skillcape becoming a F2p item would actually become an incentive to purchase members, as the task of obtaining a 99 would become far less tedious and time-consuming. It's a small incentive, certainly, but it certainly counter-balances the loss of exclusive member items. When I have trained my attack level from level 30 to level 40, my accuracy and my damage should remain the same. When I raise 30 million cash and spend it on a weapon, I should not have an advantage over the person who spent 100k on a dragon scimitar. When I train my Fishing level to 99, I should not be able to show my dedication and time I have spent playing, and supporting, this game. Fair enough.

I'll discuss this idea in depth later, but perhaps the recently relased Extreme Prayer Potions could heal 100 or so PP? And the tithe should be based on prayer levels; the more prayer levels you have, the less the tithe is. Or, the PP expendure could be a function of your prayer level, so you would use less PP the higher your prayer level is (same effect, different way). There should, however, still be a set prayer level limit on each of the respective pleas.

They arent a cash incentive for membership, but they're a apart of it. Just like other members benefits. Jagex want the business so they'll keep the best stuff for those who want to pay for it, just like anything else in life. I also disagree about the F2Pers lifestyle. After 5 months of initially being F2P then joining, I thought it was Christmas. But I just explained how skill capes are both a non-incentive for P2p and that the addition of skillcapes to f2p could possibly attract more detrimined F2pers to members. You've essentially rephrased the very argument I adressed my post to. I also did not comment on the current status of the F2p lifestyle. I merely was adressing that the addition of skillcapes would not signicicantly alter the general playstyle of a F2per. Please don't stereotype an entire class of players. If you believe that F2p doesn't deserve a minor addition that merely functions as a goal, I'll accept that, even if I think your reasons are both elitist and phobic. But at least attempt to treat F2p fairly, instead of supportng your arguments on the heavily sterotyped impression of F2p and great exaggerations of F2p desire for updates. As I explained in a prior post, direct payments are not the only way to support a company; F2p deserves and has a representation because of the devotion and effort they have placed into Jagex's game. This particually applies to F2pers devoted enough to obtain a level 99. Jagex has adknowledged this with opening the forums to higher leveled F2pers, and has directly said that they consider F2p more than a demo verion of the paid game.

Sadly though this is a realistic argument. Another valid argument especially for skills cape is that Jagex might not want to give too much end game content to people that do not pay. End game content is an incentive to join members. I think it's a purely financial question and I see no wrong in that. I don't understand why F2Pers... and P2Pers want skill capes that badly... it's a status symbol and should rot in every members bank when that player has a fire cape... I know status is important to people who lack self confidence, but I didn't know RS players were lacking that much. Well said. A line must be drawn somewhere. Jagex has to make its cash otherwise neither exists. If you get something for free, you take what you get and be happy with it, otherwise you either pay or leave and play something else. No-one forces F2P players to play so to sit and whinge 'I want more' is a little rude considering how much you get for paying nothing. I somehow fail to see how skillcapes are a grand cash incentive for membership. If a F2per has decided to put in the time and effort neccesary for a level 99, I think that person has already made the decision whether to become a member or not. If anything, a skillcape would actually be an incentive to become a member, as membership would greatly reduce the difficulty of obtaining a 99. Furthermore, skillcapes do not dramatically alter the course of the average F2per's playstyle. Sure, it may encourage a detrimined few to train their skills to 99, but as a whole skillcapes contribute no gameplay altering additions to the F2p universe. The way F2p train their skills to 99s remain the same, the vast, vast majority of a F2per's gameplay is unaltered.

How are you aware of what Jagex wants of their game? If the game was exactly how Jagex wanted it to be, the why are we continously recieving updates? And yes, this entire debate is based off opinion, so are all other agruments; if they were fact, then what is there to debate? But we can still support our opinions, and if your supporting facts/ideas are strong enough, then your opinion is a completely a valid argument. You're essentially arguing that all opinions, editorials, and political thought are baseless, which is false.