My thoughts exactly. Let's be reasonable here, the ONLY reason for an extra 6 str levels or 2 extra damage is for pvp, be it minigames or worlds. I'm not going to go get 380924 herblore for an extra 2 damage so I can hit 2 more damage on a portal in pest control, whose games are over quickly anyway. I'm not going to get a spec potion so I can use an extra dds spec on a monster who will die momentarily regardless if I spec or not. I CAN understand why they would take them out of pvp worlds, where items are risked. I CANNOT understand why they would take them out of all of the safe pvp minigames. Minigames, in my opinion, are for fun. If I have the skill to get a firecape, by god, I'm going to wear it. If I have the patience to get rank 300 in Mobilising Armies for a berserker ring (i), by god, I'm going to wear it. It should be no different with having the cash to level herblore. If I have the cash or patience to buy/gather supplies for it, then by god, I want to be able to use what I've earned. As I've always thought, if you have it, use it. If it's a free for all minigame like fight pits, where "free for all" means "anything goes", you should be able to use potions that give you an advantage. It's exactly the same as using ancients or vengeance. You payed for the level, for an untradeable advantage, you should be able to use it anywhere. It's the same with these potions. You payed for amazing untradeable potions which give you that extra edge in combat, but for some reason you can't use them. They might as well take out the following things from pvp, since they are untradeable and do not give combat levels, but give an advantage in pvp. Agility Firecape Imbued rings Non-combat skillcapes All of these give a direct advantage to how well you can survive and get kills in pvp worlds or minigames. They are also untradeable, and all hypothetically attainable at level 3. The bonuses are small, usually only a few points, but then so is hitting 2 more damage or being slightly more accurate. Again, I can kind of understand why they took it out of pvp worlds, where you risk pretty much everything on how you hit/are hit, but taking it out of minigames meant for fun where you instantly respawn is ridiculous.