Korskin

I'd say that applies to you too. From my perspective, you are narrow-minded and you limit God to work under theories created by man.

Attraction: Well, I'm a big fan of women's bodies. But face is probably the most attractive body part. Repulsion: Too be completely honest I would say something that I probably shouldn't say. So I'll say um...forehead.

I assume, science textbooks are your source of knowledge and you didn't have to lift a finger to attain that knowledge, thus your knowledge is based on your faith. The writers in the bible, all the key people in the New Testament gave their lives for their believes, preaching and work. Your sense of knowledge makes the fatal assumption that humans were somehow evolved from a micro cell over hundreds of millions of years I assume? Firstly, you are wrong. I have done numerous experimentation for myself and came to my own conclusions. Science has nothing to do with faith, as I have said numerous times before. All the writers of the bible gave thier lives for a belief. There's a huge difference between a belief and a logical deducement of the natural world. Lastly, I said nothing about evolution, but you brought it up why? It has nothing to do with the basis of how I and other scientifically minded people attain thier knowlege. And by the way, it's overwhelmingly accepted by the scientific community. The only doubters are people such as yourself who have thier idea of truth set in stone from thier mothers and fathers. My views of truth and the source of knowlege are accountable. They can change. Yours can not. And @ Korskin, let me get this clear. You believe that the bible is the truth and contains only literal fact, correct? Also, becuase the bible entails the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, you have no need to listen to any science whatsoever, correct? I take the words of the Bible as facts. However, I need to know the context and have the right interpretation of what God is saying. How about the second point? Edited my last post, sorry if I'm being lazy and not answering everything all the time.

I assume, science textbooks are your source of knowledge and you didn't have to lift a finger to attain that knowledge, thus your knowledge is based on your faith. The writers in the bible, all the key people in the New Testament gave their lives for their believes, preaching and work. Your sense of knowledge makes the fatal assumption that humans were somehow evolved from a micro cell over hundreds of millions of years I assume? Firstly, you are wrong. I have done numerous experimentation for myself and came to my own conclusions. Science has nothing to do with faith, as I have said numerous times before. All the writers of the bible gave thier lives for a belief. There's a huge difference between a belief and a logical deducement of the natural world. Lastly, I said nothing about evolution, but you brought it up why? It has nothing to do with the basis of how I and other scientifically minded people attain thier knowlege. And by the way, it's overwhelmingly accepted by the scientific community. The only doubters are people such as yourself who have thier idea of truth set in stone from thier mothers and fathers. My views of truth and the source of knowlege are accountable. They can change. Yours can not. And @ Korskin, let me get this clear. You believe that the bible is the truth and contains only literal fact, correct? Also, becuase the bible entails the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, you have no need to listen to any science whatsoever, correct? I take the words of the Bible as facts. However, I need to know the context and have the right interpretation of what God is saying. I don't need to listen to science. God is the only thing I need to listen to. However, science is an attempt to explain the created world, which sometimes is correct and sometimes isn't.

Perhaps. If he thinks my way of attaining knowlege is flawed, I'd expect him to direct me to a better one. My point is: Me thinking the Bible is the truth is not very different from you thinking science is the truth. Yes, you think the bible speaks the truth because of your faith. I have a pretty clear understanding that science is an objectively better way to attain knowlege becuase anyone can use thier inquiring, logical, empirical minds to see for themselves. Here's the thing. Science can change; it's fluid and accountable for mistakes. The bible is not. The bible is your source of knowlege and you didn't have to lift a finger to attain that knowlege, thus your knowlege is based on your faith. Scientists dedicate thier lives to attaining knowlege through countless experimentaion, analytical analysis and logic. Your source of knowlege makes the fatal assumption that humans were somehow guided to write it by an invisible diety, which many people on these boards and on this planet can't possibly compute in our inquiring, logical, empirical minds. If you go down your path of thinking, I'm assuming you take every last word of the bible as a literal fact, yes? Also, I'm assuming that you believe no word a scientists speaks to be the truth, correct? I believe in absolute truth that is unchanging. So if science always can change. I don't believe it's the truth. However, there are many good scientific theories and evidence which corresponds with the Bible.

Perhaps. If he thinks my way of attaining knowlege is flawed, I'd expect him to direct me to a better one. My point is: Me thinking the Bible is the truth is not very different from you thinking science is the truth.

Why? That's irrelevant. Why, because you can't? I need a valid reason.

To prove the Bible wrong? You shouldn't try to prove things wrong, you should seek the truth. Your last sentence makes no sense. The easiest way to seek the truth is to prove things wrong. Actually according to my world view the truth = Jesus as he says: "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me." Thus (implied) the easiest way to seek the truth is to seek Jesus and you will not find him in the tomb. How do you know that the Bible is the truth? If it is, how do you know that Jesus is saying the truth? And even if Jesus did say that, how do you know that the part of the Bible talking about the resurrection, etc. is true? Jesus may have been in that tomb... How do you it's not the truth? It's a question of beliefs. He is inclined to conclude that it's not the truth because the bible has a lot of stories which have been found to be scientifically illogical or incosistant with nature. You are inclined to conclude it is the truth because you want it to be. How do you know science is the truth? How do you know logic is correct? He is inclined to conclude that it's not the truth because the bible has a lot of stories which have been found to be scientifically illogical or incosistant with nature. You are inclined to conclude it is the truth because you want it to be. Would you say nature is wrong or lying to us? That's where we get proof from. It's not wrong because it's all we have i.e. it's the most objectively true/right thing you can get. I'm saying that you also have beliefs as I do. Science is not a belief. It's not based on faith like your views are. It's based on logical reasoning and what we can all clearly objectively see from nature. Here's a belief: You should stop letting your beliefs get in the way of science. Well you need to believe in the theory of empiricism to believe in science as "a central concept in science and the scientific method is that all evidence must be empirical, or empirically based." Explain to me another objectively viable source of knowlege other than empricism. Why? That's irrelevant.

I can't know whether we have free will or not only God would know. However my experiences points towards free will. Your beliefs are contradictory. That means at least one part of your beliefs (God is omniscient or free will exists) is wrong. Stop asserting that you don't know what God knows. No one does. That has nothing to do with the discussion. Omniscience and free will are not incompatible and it is a non-sequitor to claim otherwise.

To prove the Bible wrong? You shouldn't try to prove things wrong, you should seek the truth. Your last sentence makes no sense. The easiest way to seek the truth is to prove things wrong. Actually according to my world view the truth = Jesus as he says: "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me." Thus (implied) the easiest way to seek the truth is to seek Jesus and you will not find him in the tomb. How do you know that the Bible is the truth? If it is, how do you know that Jesus is saying the truth? And even if Jesus did say that, how do you know that the part of the Bible talking about the resurrection, etc. is true? Jesus may have been in that tomb... How do you it's not the truth? It's a question of beliefs. He is inclined to conclude that it's not the truth because the bible has a lot of stories which have been found to be scientifically illogical or incosistant with nature. You are inclined to conclude it is the truth because you want it to be. How do you know science is the truth? How do you know logic is correct? He is inclined to conclude that it's not the truth because the bible has a lot of stories which have been found to be scientifically illogical or incosistant with nature. You are inclined to conclude it is the truth because you want it to be. Would you say nature is wrong or lying to us? That's where we get proof from. It's not wrong because it's all we have i.e. it's the most objectively true/right thing you can get. I'm saying that you also have beliefs as I do. Science is not a belief. It's not based on faith like your views are. It's based on logical reasoning and what we can all clearly objectively see from nature. Here's a belief: You should stop letting your beliefs get in the way of science. Well you need to believe in the theory of empiricism to believe in science as "a central concept in science and the scientific method is that all evidence must be empirical, or empirically based."

I can't know whether we have free will or not only God would know. However my experiences points towards free will.

To prove the Bible wrong? You shouldn't try to prove things wrong, you should seek the truth. Your last sentence makes no sense. The easiest way to seek the truth is to prove things wrong. Actually according to my world view the truth = Jesus as he says: "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me." Thus (implied) the easiest way to seek the truth is to seek Jesus and you will not find him in the tomb. How do you know that the Bible is the truth? If it is, how do you know that Jesus is saying the truth? And even if Jesus did say that, how do you know that the part of the Bible talking about the resurrection, etc. is true? Jesus may have been in that tomb... How do you it's not the truth? It's a question of beliefs. He is inclined to conclude that it's not the truth because the bible has a lot of stories which have been found to be scientifically illogical or incosistant with nature. You are inclined to conclude it is the truth because you want it to be. How do you know science is the truth? How do you know logic is correct? He is inclined to conclude that it's not the truth because the bible has a lot of stories which have been found to be scientifically illogical or incosistant with nature. You are inclined to conclude it is the truth because you want it to be. Would you say nature is wrong or lying to us? That's where we get proof from. It's not wrong because it's all we have i.e. it's the most objectively true/right thing you can get. I'm saying that you also have beliefs as I do.

Yes. Okay, there we go. You believe God is omniscient, and you believe in free will. Contradiction party \ . Finally we agree.

To prove the Bible wrong? You shouldn't try to prove things wrong, you should seek the truth. Your last sentence makes no sense. The easiest way to seek the truth is to prove things wrong. Actually according to my world view the truth = Jesus as he says: "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me." Thus (implied) the easiest way to seek the truth is to seek Jesus and you will not find him in the tomb. How do you know that the Bible is the truth? If it is, how do you know that Jesus is saying the truth? And even if Jesus did say that, how do you know that the part of the Bible talking about the resurrection, etc. is true? Jesus may have been in that tomb... How do you it's not the truth? It's a question of beliefs. He is inclined to conclude that it's not the truth because the bible has a lot of stories which have been found to be scientifically illogical or incosistant with nature. You are inclined to conclude it is the truth because you want it to be. How do you know science is the truth? How do you know logic is correct?

That's what we call evading. For three posts in a row. Let's try this: do you believe God is omniscient? Yes or no will suffice. Isn't it pretty obvious what I think? Sorry...YES. Question #2: From God's perspective, do you believe we have the power to shape who we are and choose the good or bad path, to become worthy of entering heaven of our own accord through our personal decisions? I can't answer from anyone elses but my own perspective. I think we can't become worthy of entering the heaven on our own. Only Jesus can give us a ticket to heaven. Ugh, more evading. Okay, I'll rephrase the question. Do you believe we have free will? Yes.

That's what we call evading. For three posts in a row. Let's try this: do you believe God is omniscient? Yes or no will suffice. Isn't it pretty obvious what I think? Sorry...YES. Question #2: From God's perspective, do you believe we have the power to shape who we are and choose the good or bad path, to become worthy of entering heaven of our own accord through our personal decisions? I can't answer from anyone elses but my own perspective. I think we can't become worthy of entering the heaven on our own. Only Jesus can give us a ticket to heaven.

Thats not the point, the point is God has predetermined who will and who will not [bleep]. What is the point of creating people who are predetermined to [bleep]? Are we supposed to be thankful for that supposed free will and live the rest of our life burning and being tourtured? It's like a parent letting a child run out into a road of busy traffic because they have the free will to do that. What's the point in creating a world at all? God doesn't need humans for anything. Yet we are here. God knows - I don't, that pretty much sums up my responses about this question. That's what we call evading. For three posts in a row. Let's try this: do you believe God is omniscient? Yes or no will suffice. Isn't it pretty obvious what I think? Sorry...YES.

To prove the Bible wrong? You shouldn't try to prove things wrong, you should seek the truth. Your last sentence makes no sense. The easiest way to seek the truth is to prove things wrong. Actually according to my world view the truth = Jesus as he says: "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me." Thus (implied) the easiest way to seek the truth is to seek Jesus and you will not find him in the tomb. How do you know that the Bible is the truth? If it is, how do you know that Jesus is saying the truth? And even if Jesus did say that, how do you know that the part of the Bible talking about the resurrection, etc. is true? Jesus may have been in that tomb... How do you it's not the truth? It's a question of beliefs.

Thats not the point, the point is God has predetermined who will and who will not [bleep]. What is the point of creating people who are predetermined to [bleep]? Are we supposed to be thankful for that supposed free will and live the rest of our life burning and being tourtured? It's like a parent letting a child run out into a road of busy traffic because they have the free will to do that. What's the point in creating a world at all? God doesn't need humans for anything. Yet we are here. God knows - I don't, that pretty much sums up my responses about this question.

I think the point he was making was that since God knows what will happen, and every decision we make. He knows who is going to hell and who is not. So what can anyone do to stop it? You could argue that will God knows what decisions we will make, and doesn't enforce us to make them. The problem with that is that he still has predetermined what we will end up doing. Be that going to heaven or to hell. So how could any christian save anyone else from going to hell? He knows if we will accept him or not at birth, and he knows that we are going to heaven or to hell. The fact is that if we don't accept Jesus, we are going to hell and if we are predetermied to [bleep] there is nothing we can do about it at all. So Gods just creating us to not follow him and to end up burning in hell for all eternity. Thanks God. Sorry if I'm being ignornant on this one, but I don't think I have the authority to decide who will end up where. I trust that God will make or have already made the right decision.

Yeah, and I've never heard a human being say "Wow, science has brought me so much fulfillment in life! I'm so glad I've spent my life acquiring knowledge that neither affected my heart nor helped me love the people around me". When you're on your deathbed, are you going to say "Gee, I just wish I had studied science more!"? Actually, I could see that being thought. Science is fascinating and we're always finding out new stuff. Once you read the Bible...That's kinda' the end of it. You know all there is to know about it. These people who claim "Oh no, I've read the Bible 100 times and I'm STILL learning about God!" are dilusional. God isn't that mysterious if you're religious...He's only mysterious to people like me who just don't get why it's accepted that he's a "loving God" while at the same time he'll send good people to Hell. I don't believe that, however...But you do. Lol, the Christian God is so illogical that it's not even funny. Okay, maybe a little: (Christian beliefs) 1) God is omnipotent and omniscient. 2) We humans have free will, granted by God. 3) Be bad and don't accept Jesus, you going to Hell foo'. I love how the second part of point one contradicts point two, and makes point three not make any sense. I mean, we're predestined to go to Heaven or Hell at birth by that logic :lol: . Hell's just a tool to scare people into being good, and to make the good people feel cocky about how everyone else is going to heck :lol: . Ah, the power of illogical but hopeful karma. First off I'd appreciate if you could prove your points without ridiculing other peoples beliefs. Second, it doesn't really matter to me if we're predestined or not (although I don't think so) since a life with God would be the best life to live anyway. And no one knows who's going to hell or heaven except God. There is no way for us to look inside of peoples hearts, sometimes the outside does not reflect what's inside.

Yeah, and I've never heard a human being say "Wow, science has brought me so much fulfillment in life! I'm so glad I've spent my life acquiring knowledge that neither affected my heart nor helped me love the people around me". When you're on your deathbed, are you going to say "Gee, I just wish I had studied science more!"? Of course not, I don't study science. I don't think it is the most important thing in the world, however it's the best tool we have for discovering truth. I know when I'm lying on my deathbed hopefully i can be proud of helping change society for the better for it is the only world and life we are sure about. I will certainly not be thinking about whether I have impressed a God enough to get into heaven. I hope you don't think that we're supposed to impress God in order to get into heaven. We are able to get into heaven because Jesus died for our sins. What we can do is either accept that gift or decline it.

If you read about the ascension it's not very likely that it was figuratively speaking. It would be an interpretation in which you assumed that Jesus body must be in a tomb somewhere. To me you can't compromise with the Bible, either it's the truth or it's nothing but a couple of well-written stories. I don't want this to turn into another Bible thread... but it's not like you have to be a fundamentalist to agree with the Bible. You can see the deeper meanings and not take it literally, and thus still believe in it :-s . I believe this falls into the category of "STOP THINKING THAT TO BE A CHRISTIAN YOU HAVE TO BE A FRIKKIN' EXTREME FUNDAMENTALIST!!!". Oh, and 'kay Warrior, I get what you're saying :P . Well, I'm not saying that you can't be a christian without being a fundamentalist. However, I don't think the Bible makes any sense unless it's the truth. Not true, if the bible is totally true then the Earth is flat, the Sun orbits it and it's the center of a tiny universe, look at this: http://www.fixedearth.com/ The Bible can't be held accountable for deluded people who misinterpret the Bible. I agree, they are at fault for being obviously wrong and misguided, but how would you interpret this statement: These people are deluded and docile puppets, but the literature they follow is partly to blame in that is states as clear as day to never question your faith in god's word. Here's a rather extensive Q&A: http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/2178 Basically you can't just put your nose in a book and make all your conclusions from there. Look at the world around you and you will understand more about what's written in the Bible.

If you read about the ascension it's not very likely that it was figuratively speaking. It would be an interpretation in which you assumed that Jesus body must be in a tomb somewhere. To me you can't compromise with the Bible, either it's the truth or it's nothing but a couple of well-written stories. I don't want this to turn into another Bible thread... but it's not like you have to be a fundamentalist to agree with the Bible. You can see the deeper meanings and not take it literally, and thus still believe in it :-s . I believe this falls into the category of "STOP THINKING THAT TO BE A CHRISTIAN YOU HAVE TO BE A FRIKKIN' EXTREME FUNDAMENTALIST!!!". Oh, and 'kay Warrior, I get what you're saying :P . Well, I'm not saying that you can't be a christian without being a fundamentalist. However, I don't think the Bible makes any sense unless it's the truth. Not true, if the bible is totally true then the Earth is flat, the Sun orbits it and it's the center of a tiny universe, look at this: http://www.fixedearth.com/ The Bible can't be held accountable for deluded people who misinterpret the Bible.

If you read about the ascension it's not very likely that it was figuratively speaking. It would be an interpretation in which you assumed that Jesus body must be in a tomb somewhere. To me you can't compromise with the Bible, either it's the truth or it's nothing but a couple of well-written stories. I don't want this to turn into another Bible thread... but it's not like you have to be a fundamentalist to agree with the Bible. You can see the deeper meanings and not take it literally, and thus still believe in it :-s . I believe this falls into the category of "STOP THINKING THAT TO BE A CHRISTIAN YOU HAVE TO BE A FRIKKIN' EXTREME FUNDAMENTALIST!!!". Oh, and 'kay Warrior, I get what you're saying :P . Well, I'm not saying that you can't be a christian without being a fundamentalist. However, I don't think the Bible makes any sense unless it's the truth. I don't see any point in living by a book that have some good points but it's really just a bunch of stories that anyone could have written. And you can pick what you like about it and just ignore the rest.