Kimberly

The people who have issues with it are typically those who don't think a mini-game should offer some of the best exp rates in the game. The counter to that is many don't consider this a minigame. To which people would probably say why is it only in the RCing guild then with no real ties to the over-world. And back, and forth, and back, and forth. I can see the points of both sides in the argument. And it is pretty clear that there has been a larger emphasis on minigames and Distractions and Diversions (or JoT aura/wisdom/etc) to train skills over the years. That certainly doesn't help players being slightly upset.

I can't tell if you're trying to express your personal beliefs, or if you're stating this as fact.

Can't spare the energy to give a [bleep] that they've done this. They've got every right to, and they seem hell-bent on never listening to the people who want simply to get the opportunity to obtain these vanity items via credit card. Continual financial discrimination from Jagex, never getting old there is it?

Mm. Maybe, but I don't really think that's the case here. Either way, in the eyes of my ultra-religious cousins, my soul is damned for not practicing faith and acts in order to "obtain salvation" in the same way an atheist is supposedly damned, no grey area. Then again, I hate my family and they're probably not the best indication of the population of this area. For example, one of my cousins frequently say that Obama is the antichrist. Herpaderpa. EDIT: I was taught ages ago that it was a combination of good acts and faith & adherence to the teachings of God/the Christ that was the marks of a "true" Christian. I wonder if anyone else here was taught differently (anyone else who adheres to Christianity that is.)

Dat irony. Sounds like most Christians people I know. Fixed that for you. That's a specific trait of human nature, not traits you'd only find in Christians. People are naturally opposed to things that are different than their beliefs, their appearance, etc. That's why people tend to take offense to statements like that - why Assume got upset with Danq for his personal beliefs that were based on belligerent people.

Most people who claim to be Christian also aren't practicing that faith. It's like you said about laziness, people will claim it out of habit because they were born into it. You'll see this happening everywhere - not just limited to the Christian faith. It's just the most talked about because it's still in the majority (but losing ground) in the western world. When others speak on general basis here, they are called wrong because they cannot present evidence for the clear contradictions in their opinions. That's the problem I had, and I had to accept it. I think it's only fair to hold everyone else to the same standard, to get anywhere productive here... [citation needed] I recently moved to the "bible belt" area in Western PA to be closer to my extended family. I wouldn't say that there's pressure to go to church at all. The only way that I could say I relate to pressure, is that most people here just go to church, and lots of the community social events are held at our local churches. That's really all there is in ways of 'pressure', and it's seriously overstated by others.

That's pretty fair, I think. I don't necessarily agree with that being the trait of 'evil'. Even if I don't personally buy into the "It's God's will" explanation or "He tries to teach us" I don't see these as negligent. More like neutral. I know it's a different debate entirely, but I don't think those with power are automatically expected to help others. It's nice, and hey if they do more power to them. But not doing so doesn't make them evil. But yeah, like you and I both seem to agree, there's lots of contradictions. Kind of in the sense how fundamentalists (most notably terrorist fundamentalists, though not saying they're the same thing!) claim to be an agent of their true faith, they often wildly contradict the central teachings of that faith. I would consider anti-theists who claim to be atheists akin to those fundamentalists. It's not surprising that people get confused here, because this is such a common occurance. I guess, then, in the same way why some atheists (not those here, but some) confuse fundamentalism with the average person of that faith.

The thread would only be locked if it had to constantly be cleaned for the same thing. So far that isn't the case. I hope it's clear that myself and any other mod who take part of this discussion are posting as users would -- not staff. :/ You can (or anyone else!) PM me if you have any further questions on that subject. I struggled with this and similar doubts when my mother passed away. I still have periods of time when my family says to me, "God saved her from suffering and we should be happy." Whenever someone told me that - someone even had the balls to tell me that right after she passed away - I wanted to punch them in the face. I knew they were trying to comfort me but god damn that was the last thing I wanted to hear. When I was a kid taking communion lessons or whatever (honestly forget what it was called right now), they explained the free will/predestination conundrum like this: God supposedly created us all with set natures. We were free to act within our heart's desires within that nature. That people are all normal regardless of these natures, but how they behave determines whether or not they ever reach "Heaven". It made no sense to me as a kid. It still doesn't really make sense to me. Maybe if a theologist explained it to me or something it would, but it's one of the things I struggle with when I can even be bothered to come to terms with my faith or lack of it.

See, this is why this subject becomes so frustrating. There is no way to simply mention your belief structure without it being dissected, attacked, and critically viewed. It eventually pushes the people into a corner, until they get so upset that they leave dramatically. And then people go, "oh hueheuhuehe just another theist at work" when...what else was supposed to happen when people are so damn critical and harsh. :/

Those who hold faith are automatically at a disadvantage in these discussions. Even still, many choose to believe. I've found over the years that this is often viewed as a detestable act, because they "should know better" having religion for all intensive purposes disproven. Even though I don't really hold my faith too dearly at this point of my life due to personal struggles, I find this repeating pattern that always seems to play out in discussions frustrating, even if I looked at it from a viewpoint that there isn't a higher power. There's never a middle ground, it always leads to upset people, and it personally stresses me out. And sometimes, I'm too retarded for my own good and think that I can redress the "imbalance" that always exists in these discussions - since it feels like theists are always outnumbered - and toss my hat into the ring. Quite frankly, I shouldn't. Especially since I'm clearly not up to the standards that people like you, Croce, and others set when it comes to formal debating. It's why I'm trying to slap myself now, apologize for where I [bleep]ed up, and move on >_>'

You know DDosing is illegal right? I think most people have common sense not to DDoS for pixel items, whether or not they intend to sell it. Not like you'd get in trouble for doing it on RS, but why take the risk? Most straight-laced people would say no, you're right. But the truth is, there is almost 0 risk in hacking and ddossing other players because they're impossible to track and hold up in a court of law. It's a costly, difficult, and lengthy process to get enough evidence to prosecute little Tiny Tim with his cheap botnet from Amsterdam.

I guess I hold too little faith in the flow of discussion - and as a result become part of the problem myself by thinking I had any right/ability to "correct" it - to trust that these discussions could be had without going down the same negativity towards those who hold faith/disagree with religion because of the actions of wackos. You're entirely right that you didn't say it, I got far too concerned whether or not it would be interpreted that way, and by doing so made the problem worse...Sorry >_<' I should not have jumped to conclusions >_< [hide]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxuTyXQHqkI[/hide]

I'm not saying he is immature, just the attitude taken in regards to religion. I get his point too, please don't get me wrong, I just don't think it's necessary to use such dramatic language to make such a point, when it's perfectly clear what he's trying to say without it. They're the kind of things that make these discussions so negative to read, from my view as a user. I probably came on too harsh (and a little stupid with it), I'm sorry. I don't know the intricate detail of every faith and its literature in existence. I know however, that fundamentalists are statistically in the minority & that people of faith tend to hold views in line with the principles taught by their scriptures rather than literal translation, so I made my statements based on those points. My train of thought got so convoluted though, that I really failed in trying to make what little point I could make with what little facts I had. I don't engage in these sorts of debates often because I'm not very skilled in expressing my opinions, and it shows. I'm sorry for that. EDIT: I realize that my second "fact" is more like an assumption and I guess it really has no point in being used to assert my belief, so help me out instead and ignore me on that point blahhh. I couldn't agree more that fundamentalism is problematic but...that's really not what this topic is about though, and that sort of debate is suited for a different thread right? Isn't this thread only to discuss whether or not there is a higher power, and whether or not the community believes in it? Is discussing religion's impact on society and its misuse really connected to that subject? I'm very confused now.

I'm not trying to be evasive, honestly...sorry :/ I've answered your question as best I'm able. I would think it has more to do with human nature than religious beliefs, based on how people react, wouldn't it? Truth is, I'm not sure. And since I'm mostly going off of old schoolroom lessons, personal experience, and the like, I don't have the research you want. I understand that lacking that cruicial point weakens my argument, and that you're not obligated to take it as fact, but this seems more like common sense here than anything else :/ Strictly speaking, fundamentalists/evangelicalists are in the minority, so I see that as unreasonable to assert those stereotypes to represent all of those who adhere to the Christian faith. :/

When you're putting traits as labels onto the average person who holds faith - it wasn't clear at the time he was talking about creationists/extremists and I personally don't feel that continually going back to these psycho-fringe groups progresses any mature discussion on the matter - that do not accurately represent that group, and continue to do so, I think they do. I am sure that you would act within the spirit of those scriptures, which is the point I was trying to make, so yes I think you would.

It's not a personal attack: I'm talking about his viewpoint, not his character. As for what they think, you need only ask people. Most would take offense to such a viewpoint that portrays someone they hold faith in as little better than a kid with a magnifying glass over an anthill, or (sticking with the ant metaphor) ants that delight in holding superiority over others. Even if you held faith in the fact that there was no higher power, if I portrayed them to be callous and morally bankrupt people as an assumption, they would be offended because it's clearly not true for the average person. That's pretty normal, don't you think? I didn't realize it would need further explanation. :/

That's really not what most religious people think at all - not those who are true to the teachings and aware of their respective scriptures. That viewpoint seems every bit as arrogant as the vilified theists this topic is portraying. so many =/= most. Besides. It's in the bible. Not sure what you mean by true to the teachings. The Bible doesn't, nor any other religious text I can think of off-hand, state that the other forms of life on our planet are our "playthings." As for what I mean when I say true to the teachings, I mean generally following the codes of morality laid out by those scriptures rather than to-the-letter adherence. (Else everyone would be stoning women and unwed mothers etc) As for the "somany != most thing" I don't know what you mean to point out. Every group has their extremists. If we're basing our views only on the extremists, then this isn't a discussion worth having. As such, I don't think it's right in the least to take such an arrogant/flippant position in such a strong, difficult discussion.

That's really not what most religious people think at all - not those who are true to the teachings and aware of their respective scriptures. That viewpoint seems every bit as arrogant as the vilified theists this topic is portraying.

No one on the Tip.it Staff is selling your information - we're working extremely hard to protect it. One example of that would be how the majority of the staff actually can't see these important personal information tidbits that are so vital to things like recovering your RS account. As Jolletzu pointed out, a lot of people use image scrapers to grab your IP. This method is actually fairly easy to do, doesn't generally come up to people as a "red flag", and is pretty damn common. This one is the most likely explanation simply because it's the easiest to get away with, and the least recognized. Wolfmon is completely right. DDoS'ing is huge in high-stakes pking and the clan world. It's a quick and cheap way to cripple your opponent and basically hand you the victory. The best thing for you is prevention.

Introducing a minigame to correct poor exp rates seems a whole lot easier to me than studying balancing of every craftable rune and the economic implications of what they would need to make such an old and clearly broken system functional again. I'd imagine that if they had to redo RC'ing, that it'd be far more similar in what we see with the RuneSpan, than what we had previously.

When I lived in Philadelphia as a kid, there was a man who claimed that very same thing. He even went so far as to adopt the 'style' that Jesus is often portrayed as - white toga with red sashes, long brown hair, bare feet, etc. He lived off the kindness of others and preached the teachings of Jesus. He was essentially laughed out of the community. To see him walking down the street was always a sad thing. His feet would always be black from walking on the dirty streets, he would always be alone, and the people he left in his wake were usually snickering behind his back. His adherence to the teachings of Jesus were admirable on its own, but he became more of a figure of pity than admiration - even in the eyes of those who were more open to the notion of the Savior come again than others. The concept that the Savior of any religion returning again to save humanity is often played on in literature, tv, etc because the rejection they would likely face today probably mirrors society's rejection of those figures in the past. In a lot of religions, simply going to their place of worship once a week like you said isn't enough to qualify for that deity's mercy/salvation/access to the Afterlife. I never really liked that mindset. Burden. If a scientist was atheist, but had the means to empirically test whether or not a divine power existed, would they really refuse out of principle, because the "burden of proof" doesn't lie with them? Everyone, regardless of their beliefs, would like to see it proven/disproven, wouldn't they? Logically, you're completely right, but...I don't know. It gets misused far too much for the wrong reasons I think...

Thanks for waiting guys. Topic cleaned and reopened. Have fun! Reminder: Please try to remember a few things before continuing this topic. 1) Our forum rules. While Off Topic is a place where these controversial subjects may be discussed freely, please try to remember that even still, care must be exercised to refrain from stating our personal beliefs as fact. These strong, definitive statements often lead to unnecessary arguing and flaming between the community members, and truly aren't necessary to have a stong, constructive discussion 2) Report bad posts - don't respond! If someone is getting a little too heated, please report them rather than reply! At the very least, please do not get involved in off-topic arguing/flaming, as it degrades the quality of discussion for other users. 3) We want this topic to stay open! But if it continues down the same path that lead to the topic being cleaned, it will have to be locked. Please help us prevent this by staying on topic! Thanks again guys and happy discussing :)

Nothing will come of "discussion" or philosopher's answer for this "great question" would have been taken as fact years and years and years ago. The truth is no one will be satisfied until it's empirically proven. And that won't happen for the forseeable future. Until then, it is a matter of faith, not fact. And that is truly the heart of any religion, regardless of what flavor of religion you follow. So, yes, it is useless. All it does is foster tension in a community that doesn't have any place in engaging in such a debate.

It's impossible to know definitively if there is indeed a "higher power", so engaging in debates about it is useless.

Got Mystic Tattoo tonight. Meh. It'll rot in the bank, and I couldn't care less about it. I'm only holding onto it because after this it will still be rare in the long run. Now, if you could actually apply it to your FACE - not your head, that's stupid and they're stupid for making it a head-slot item - I would wear the shit out of it. I might have even considered buying sof spins for something like that. (I'm sure that statement created a disturbance in the Force for some investor.)