Erewhon2

That is everything I really need to say in a nutshell. I think that we should bear in mind that what is being referred to here are 'Guides' and only guides, hence they are there to supply guidance on how you could play a particular aspect of the game. But like everything else only experiencing it will tell you what suits you best, as in my agility example. If a guide advises one method of smithing for example, but a lvl 3 skiller with high lvl smithing suggested another way of doing it, that maybe more enjoyable, profitable or provide higher xp (whatever your preference is), then I am likely to try that method, I think that is common sense. If you only applied gaming methods that were on the guides, where is the adventure? The individualised game play? Someone who has no direct experience may only provide information they have read or been told, without confirming anything from their own experience. Therefore I disagree with the points made in the quotes. And its not always about combat level, it depends on the advice or opinion you are asking. It is subjective to the topic and the person with the experience. I agree that the best experience advice is from those who have thought about it, but as in my point above, fun is as much a valid argument as others. One player may have found that doing something such a way was good fun and/or xp, and although subjective could suit the person asking. A completely incorrect assumption.....they may have another account. And as I said it not necessarily about high combat stats. Its about experience in the skill or combat.

I have said it before on this thread and I will say it again. There is no justification for skill capes on F2P, you can call me elitist...yes I am, I pay for my membership and want to keep all the benefits and special things that go with that, thats the whole point of becoming a member! No one I know (with any kind of sanity) would take P2P gear into F2P pking, so that negates that point, as defined by Langer. And AlexRose, you have spent all this time enjoying the game of RS for free....what's the issue...the point is made, how many hours have you played RS enjoyably without having to pay a penny? You haven't even needed to spend out on a box set. Ultimately Jagex likes to be seen supporting its F2P players, but in the end it doesn't matter, as soon as you leave there are others joining. The same with membership, it is a business after all. Your weapons and armour are fine against other F2P, why are you comparing them with members weapons? If you ever get the opportunity to fight a D Scimmy, it will be because you are a member and have one (or something better) of your own.

As Swampjedi said....Quelmotz relax a little, yes some of this is as a result of the disagreements we had and your tendency to rant, but its not just about you, there are plenty of other examples in RS too. Some interesting and very valuable points here. I agree that each person in the game (or elsewhere) should be given the benefit of demonstrating their knowledge or experience and sometimes one outweighs the other depending on what it is you need to know, or what the opinion is you are interested in. Rien_Adelric made the point about 'common sense' and that may be true, but unfortunately not everyone is able to apply it. For example someone ranting on with opinions about the state of ongoing game play like updates, who doesn't play RS has no valuable opinion to me. Or someone going on about the how pointless membership is when they have never experienced it. Now it is common sense that they are unlikely to have anything of value to offer me. I do agree that we make assumptions, after all it is human nature to do so, therefore reasonable as Swampjedi put it to go to someone who appears to be the most appropriate first stop, in some instances this may be a person who presents as being a 'higher level'. I had to laugh at Langers point about grammar and sane arguments, after all it has to make sense and some of the things I have seen written in RS need a full time translator! Although interesting that he has informed himself of combat areas and skills, I have to say I think that is unusual for a skiller. Some I have spoken to have been really dismissive of combat; like trying to discuss a full mixed grill with a vegetarian and have been just as offended. So I would not automatically ask a skiller about Barrows for example, I would probably ask someone with a high combat level. To argue Langer's point I would give the example of agility, you can read up on that all you like, but for me the best way of training agility was to have fun with it at Brimhaven, only someone who has experienced that would understand the difference in the courses.

So you are judging me by how long I have been a member on tipit? Unless I'm mistaken, he said that to demonstrate the flaws in your post - not because he actually means it. You can't (or rather, shouldn't) judge someone based on appearances alone. And yes, there are legitimate reasons why someone who has quit RS might want to help others; there are many who leave the game on good terms and occassionally wish to help the next generation of players. It's by no means a rare occurrence. Well in this instance I took his point at face value.....as many people would, the term "what you see is what you get" comes to mind. This thread has come about particularly because of a disagreement going on within another thread that headed right off topic. As a result I said I would open it up for debate. I am cross about those people who do not have players best interests at heart. Those who play the game (or not) or post on tipit purely to aggravate, rant, mislead and generally be obnoxious and yet consider their inexperienced opinions to hold weight. Having said that, my point when asking for an opinion or advice still stands....it wouldn't occur to me to ask a level 3 skiller for advice about barrows if I didn't know them.

So you are judging me by how long I have been a member on tipit? Yet questioning my opinion about exactly the same thing! It is down to the debate to open this up. You're assuming that many people have multiple accounts, yes they may do, in which case they have the 'skills and experience' to give an 'informed' opinion or advice. If people have quit RS why do they want to help others? Help them to quit too? Because that is some of what I am seeing both here and in the game, RS being verbally trashed.

You're absolutely right.......there is nothing more you can say. I certainly have tried to get straight answers from you and have given up. So you carry on in your little bubble of self deceit, pretending that you are a Pmod because it doesn't harm the game (????) and that you are part of a non existent community, serving a "higher purpose" in a pretend role for a virtual game in a non existent, pretend world. :huh:

I have noticed while following a few threads that some people post strong opinions who have very limited experience of playing RS and I have given very little weight to their point of view as a result, particularly if it has been about ongoing game play or skill development. After all if you were playing RS and wanted advice, would you ask a level 3 skiller about completing Barrows? Or someone who gave up RS ages ago? Very unlikely. Also If someone has given up RS why are they still posting on Tip.It, what is the point? The same applies with regard to F2P players ranting about the disappointments of RS when they have never been members....how ridiculous is that? (And yes I also hold a F2P account, so this is not a dig at F2P). The worst in my mind are those who are playing only occasionally (or never) then start trashing RS like their opinion matters! :shame: This happens actually within the game itself on both F2P or P2P. Players come on trying to give opinions and advice and when challenged about the incorrect information they are giving claim they haven't played for ages because RS is 'boring' (or something stronger). If you don't play RS then keep your opinions to yourself. If you don't have the skill, or the experience then don't try and give advice or an opinion on it.

Jrhairychest and Erewhon2 thinks you have no opinion, just because you are semi-retired. Either that, or they do it for lulz. If that is the case, then why don't they say that to just about everybody who does not play Runescape anymore? Speaking of which, the main reason of why people quit is because of so much updates. Many people whine about how easy the game became, and how awful the game will be in the future. Why can't those people learn to appreciate the game as it is, instead of ranting and ranting pointlessly in the RSOF rants? You're missing the point. I've no objection to people airing their views if they are actually know what they're talking about, or are at least in a position to talk about such things. To play a little runescape, gain low ranks in a few skills then place objections to things hardly warrants confidence in the player knows what he is talking about. Retirement after a few low skills? Sorry I thought players retired after at least giving the game a thorough chance to see it through to be able to demonstrate some sort of knowledge and experience to know what they are talking about. Quit acting like your big stats are a big deal. Will you just shut the hell up being judgmental and trying to impose your idiotic opinion that anyone who has low stats has no right to retire or post on the forums. Stop thinking that you have more rights than someone else just because of your damned stats in a game. I have as much right as you to post here, and you have absolutely no right to comment that I have no right to post here. Sorry that you have a severely exaggerated opinion on what a "thorough chance" is. Go try the F2P version of the game without using any single one member item/skill then. You'll see how fast you'll get bored and want to retire. I've already done just about everything worth doing in F2P. All the quests, skills up to a certain point where it gets boring and the rewards suck. Well saying that your 'rants' don't hold weight because it appears your experience of the game is limited is just an opinion, same as you saying you have the right to post. No one is saying you can't post, certainly I haven't. But I question your ongoing interest in talking about RS as you hate the game.....I mean, what purpose does it serve? This is way off topic, but I think there is an interesting debate here, I think I'll put it up as a topic in its own right :thumbsup:

That is not what you said previously! See Jrhairychest's post and my one, you said When I challenged you on that you said: Therefore according to you, prior to that quote, you were not involved in the community, that has only occured recently! I see you again changing what you say to fit the argument you are making at the time. I think it is about time you sat down and took a serious look at yourself and all you believe you represent, because its a false image. You need to step outside of your opinions and look at the arguments you are making objectively. You may believe what you say at the time, but you appear to struggle with self reflection and show no evidence of self awareness. You say you are learning, what are you learning? Rules? How to do this or that? Are you learning anything about self honesty, reflection, moral fibre, acceptance of who and what you are......do you even like yourself? Helping others begins at home (and thats a metaphor by the way), learning to help others without expectations and global recognition is part of self development. Not everyone can achieve it, but then you need to be honest and accept that about yourself. The hardest person to be really honest with, is yourself....I'm not sure you can do it.

Nice to see the new role being so flexible. Useful post from Troacctid

Ok if I get this right.....your personal 'gratification' for being a Pmod is being part of the said community....uh huh, so its interesting that you said this earlier on in the thread. This is known as being 'found out', you are blatantly changing what you say to suit the argument you are making at the time. Your quote below raises the issue that even you admit most players hate Pmods, this should make it abundantly clear that there was something fundamentally wrong with the system, and also raises the issue again of why anyone would want the role unless it was for perceived status. (I think we can safely disregard the reason you gave, for being part of the Pmod community). :---) Oh here we go again.....just in case you missed it earlier.....your not part of the Pmod community nor do you represent them in any way. Ok got that, but you will be seen by readers of this thread (and there is a lot of them) as an example of Pmod status and behaviour....is that worrying you yet? The new role for Pmods is seen by many as a positive way forward, empowering and improving the relationships and roles, yet for you..... As for that whole issue around reporting that you love to deny so much, although how reliable your opinion and statements are is now clearly under question..... And you prefer that old system! Even though Jagex have clearly stated the need to change the way the Pmod system and role functions :shame: And finally.... A simple "ty" is not enough for you as it is Jrhairychest or myself.....you want the crown as recognition

Yes you are right, you cannot be stopped from posting on this Runescape fan site, but why are you still posting here? You dislike Runescape, don't play it anymore and rant endlessly on both on the debate threads and the rants about Runescape. I fail to see how your opinions hold any weight now. Cetainly with regard to this thread, that is about the current gameplay, you have made it abundantly clear that Runescape is not for you....so go away! :---)

I am concerned at the continual arguements and personalised attacks stating that there is no evidence in support of this thread. Yes there are a lot of opinions, but some of those count as evidence in their own right, in a couple of instances because they are from PMods or someone who has been a Pmod. I would add, that in completing this trawl of the posts, I have been gratified by the strength of support there has been from players and not just 'one or two'! I have not included repeats unless it appeared to bring more evidence to the debate. I have also kept the list as simple as possible. Est0rrath - Status 00hydro - Status Sees-all1 - Doesn't see the need for a crown Computergee - Status ThedayRSdied - Pmods are worthless Langer - Pmods not needed, reporting for modship is distasteful Dark Aura - Gave an example of very poor mod behaviour abc1230 - Pmods are pointless Funnisam - Status Lamdan - Is a Pmod; admits 'status' Moneya - Status Jenove - Status Sworddude198 - Doesn't like Pmods Bluelancer - Was a Pmod; said they're not fit to be role models mmmcannibalism - Is a Pmod; status Cheeseater - Provides evidential video link of appalling Pmod behaviour Troacctid - Provides evidential link to Jagex post on Pmod changes and selection process http://devblog.runescape.com/c=yES6escXA0o/view_post.ws?post_id=20 Jrhairychest - Also provides Jagex link Bluelancer - Provides evidential screenshot of inappropriate mod behaviour and states he has many more examples Page 15 Est0rrath - Provides relevant information regarding "Mod failure" on another thread Page 16 Fairness - Wants Pmod system abolished Bauke - Indicates Pmods are better very recently compared to before Zierro - Status Erewhon2 - Provides direct quote from Jagex Page 18 Jrhairychest - Provides link to new selection process http://forum.[Please Use QuickFind Code].ws?103,104,0,59341959 a_local_guy - Is a Pmod; doesn't like being asked questions or people adding him, prefers the old Pmod role Howlin0001 - Is a Pmod; equates his role with being in the Police force! That is so scary :unsure: Randox - Equates the crown to power over others Expl0de - Thinks Pmods are "The Law" a_local_guy - Doing it for what he feels is "the greater good" and is still pmodding under the old system a_local_guy - Provides evidential screenshot of Lumbridge Guide telling potential wannabe's to report those that break the rules and basically 'be nice' as if that can be monitored! (reporting being the main focus) Page 23 RayOxide - No reason for Pmods Orioles - Status Jake_corsair - Is a Pmod; agrees status, and then adds purpose, then gives a wonderful example of equating Pmod status to achieving skillcapes! Lmao PyroZerkerX - Status What can I say? It is all there, clear and concise and I have purposely added the links that were used. I haven't done the screenshots because it would make this post far to long, but I have noted the page that they are on in the list. Now tell me again that there is no evidence in support of this thread, or that only one or two people are in agreement!!!! :shame: As for the personal aspect of why someone should choose to be a Pmod, I have been asking that from the beginning, what is it about being a Pmod that gives you such gratification? Why do you need it? Especially considering the opinions and evidence above. And for my part, I wasn't keen on the whole Pmod thing, but was open to opinions, but reading the thread posts and the immediate responses to my first posts, clarified that I was right all along and since then have only strengthened my views.

My opinions are direct opinions, I think. My personal analysis for the Jagex articles can't be wrong, can it? Part of it is that if most mods were in it for personal gain, you would notice it. What you do have is either mods behaving as normal players and/or running community projects. See above! Avoidance again!

That's the exact opposite of what I've been saying. It is my belief that most players would want modship for the crown, but I am not one of them. And none of the mods I have met seem to care about the status like the players around them. On the contrary, they're the ones that direct their energy to trying to improve the game for players. Well then why have all those mods accepted the crown then? This is so contradictory! Most players want modship for the crown, so they accept it when offered yes? Yet you and all the mods you met apparently don't, but yet you all have the crown?????? Be an outstanding player without it then! You cannot have it both ways! :huh: Bluelancer Said... Jagex said x, meaning y... Blue Lancer was a direct opinion, Jagex said x was supplied with links and direct quotes from Runscape (usually recognised as evidence), so and so said.....with a screen shot, so and so said.....with a video link....... Whereas you said...something, so and so said...something, where is any evidence for the opposing argument?

Same old thing really.....lmao! :thumbsup:

Firstly let me say I am not he/she but 'she' :wink: In response to those who don't think I am talking to them.....my posts are usually directed generically with individual responses included, therefore unless you are agreeing with what I say, my points should be worth debating...yes? It's the "but" that gives it away.....for example: "I really do like you...."but"....." - get the picture? Its a 'get out clause' in the hope that they can get away without offending anyone. I really don't understand your point here.....most players would not want modship without the crown! Well thats exactly what I have been saying, it's purely 'status' as most things can be achieved without it. However you want the role without the crown, yet you continue to exploit that status, even knowing that you could probably achieve more as a 'helpful and considerate' player without the crown. So, either you have no idea what you are talking about or really you do agree with Jrhairychest :huh: In support of this threads theme, there has been evidence from Jagex, links to other posts and Runescape itself, links to You Tube, screen shots, videos, personal opinions from ordinary players and an ex PMod. Some of that evidence has also been indisputable. The arguments against the theme of this thread have supplied no direct evidence other than 3rd party information and opinions. Wake up! :wall:

This subject has been done to death in the thread "Price Manipulation, Right or Wrong?" Please do not re-post existing threads :shame:

I agree that the combat strategies should be looked at. In fact I have made reference to this in another thread (How Easy do You Want it?). There is very little in the way of defensive skills. I would like to see more weight given to different skills in cb, for example, those with high agility being able to dodge more blows etc. It would give much more variety to combat overall and enable players to consider more thought out and intellent strategies for battle. I have no doubt that the fight arena would find many players then practicing cb skills on a regular basis. \:D/

So I would ask...what changed her mind? Your friend decided that she did want the status? Why else be a Pmod? I posted the point below on an earlier page, which clarifies how my opinion now stands. A Pmod can do no more than an ordinary player, someone else made reference that their reports are given more weight than other players which I fnd appalling. All reports should be given equal attention, then prioritised as to their importance. So we come back to my points below: I continue to question why anyone would want to spend their leisure time in a role that irritates so many and serves so little purpose. That may change somewhat under the new criteria, but still holds true for those that were selected under the old criteria of the amount of reports players sent in and was not a rigorous selection process! :shame:

I certainly have acknowledged your reasons for wanting to be/being a pmod and as part of the debate questioned them, as you question my opinion. There are frequent references from others about the negative impact of the pmod presence, both here and on RS itself. You should count the Jagex article...its important, you can't just discount it because you don't like what it implies, yes they plan to change the role and give a clearer, more defined purpose, this is good news! But it also leaves the pmod history wide open to this debate. My issue has always been the self deceiving 'altruistic' approach some pmods give for taking up the role. Personally, like many things in life, I think this makes people feel righteous and gives them a sense of justification to behave in a highhanded manner. The negative aspects so far in this debate far outweigh ANY positive influence pmods may or may not have had in the past. Therefore we come back to the original post, that this is all about personal status....being "sombody". :shame: