Jebrim

It's a poor excuse for people to stop training. I remember the days when ranks actually meant something, before people got 200m's. People talk about 200m's nowadays like it's nothing, but it was only a few years ago when many rank 1's didn't even have 200m as a goal. Now ranks in skills are completely meaningless, with people not giving a damn about rank 1 in cooking, dg, or even agility. Ranks become more meaningless as more people become tied at 200m Xp. Ranks would still have meaning and did have meaning in the past back when it was actually possible to lose your rank. It's a real achievement to be able to hold off everyone else instead of having been lucky to have played RS at a specific time years ago. By having no limit, it adds more challenge for each rank and therefore gives more of an accomplishment and more value to each rank.

Remember there are also plenty of players who feel that the 200m xp cap just serves to close off skills that they enjoy training, thus making them either reducing the enjoyment in their gameplay or making them do a Jebrim and create more accounts to get up there again - after all, just about everyone who get stats to 200m would do it in a stat they enjoyed, and just about everyone has at least one, usually 2 or 3, stat(s) which they hate, which, as they accumulate more and more 200m skills in stats they like, become(s) an ever more significant part of the game. Plus I don't like the idea of a rank being permanently set in stone. And I dont think I would feel different even if I was rank 1 in something. Just saying that though there are definately some who support the view you posted above, you cant really use it as an argument for why Jagex shouldn't raise the xp cap as the view is far from universal. And if you point out that I dont have any top page stats to try to devalue my arguments, there is two things that you need to consider - first, that there are those who have expressed these or similar sentiments who do have top page ranks (Jebrim, Kingduffy, Xxx Neo Xxx7 to name but three), and second, the top page people are already an insignificant part of the people with 200m stats - and over time that will just get more and more the case. To follow this up, RS is pretty unique among hiscore systems. Permanent ranks don't occur in almost every other hiscore system out there. @Makaveli False. Stop listening to rumours/reading out of context pics.

To clarify, I explored this place very very well. I believe you will be here for part of the quest doing stuff and then move on. There is a plank that MUST be knocked down in order to access the fairy ring side, and more importantly, continue the quest. The anvils, stairs, mural, wall design, and tethradron are all part of the quest. The pipe and pickaxe is as well. This is an Agility course because it will be possible to return to this place whenever you want through the fairy ring after you've knocked down that plank. Furthermore, the obstacles I showed played no actual role in anything other than to go in a circuit. This is very clearly the Agility course. To the west side are some stairs. The only way to access this side is by sliding down the roof obstacle. The only way to access that is by jumping from the previous roof onto that roof. The only way to access this is to climb up the 2nd ladder I intentionally skipped at the beginning of the video. Once you jump down that roof, it will be impossible to go back the other way. Furthermore, once you jump down from the platform where the handholds are at, it'll be impossible to go back the other way. There are no ladders to climb back up, I checked. So there won't be any way to get directly from the Agility course to the stairs without redoing whatever brought you to the island to begin with. It seems very clear that you must already be in the Northwest corner of the island when you arrive, as the setup of the obstacles in that section can only ever be accessed if that was true. The only way I'm wrong on this is if you somehow have to create a ramp to climb up onto the handholds section that will then allow you travel back. I don't know what's down the stairs, but the main island above ground will definitely be used as part of the quest and it will also feature an Agility course, this much is blatantly obvious. Also, due to the mishmash of obstacles from Advanced Barb and Gnome, it seems like this will definitely be a high level course and it will probably be the best Xp/hr. If the quest requirement for this place is RotM, the best Xp/hr course in the game as one probably multiple rewards of completing that quest certainly makes sense.

New Agility course coming out, byebye Advanced Barb? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqa2MqGDabY

Skullball is max 19.3k exp/hr. You cannot fail because of level, so the exp rate is constant. [25 required] The Agility Pyramid is max 22k+ exp/hr, but can be failed and is likely much lower. [30 required] The regular Barbarian course is around 17.3-18k max exp/hr and will be lower as you fail obstacles. [35 required] Now, while it's true that the regular Barbarian course is the simplest of these three courses, it is definitely not a clear first. You'd have to know failure rates at the Agility Pyramid for various levels to know whether it's better than Skullball. My guess is no. Werewolf, penguin, and brimhaven courses are never in contention for best experience available. Skullball is actually around 25k Xp/hr max, but it's incredibly hard to do. Werewolf is also a possible option, or was, depending on how the recent update to it changed its speed. I haven't been able to check. As far as I'm aware at the moment, they're about the same. It will really come down to how fast you are. However, it is a lot easier to maintain a fast speed at Ape Atoll than it is to do so at Werewolf. Negative weight also helps at the Werewolf course only. It decreases your chance of failing the zip line. Everywhere else in Agility, however, negative weight is pointless.

54-70: Wilderness Course (alternative)55-70: Werewolf Course (alternative)60-70: Ape Atoll Course 70-75: Ape Atoll Course (alternative)70-75: Wilderness Course 75-80: Dorgesh-Kaan Course (alternative)75-80: Ape Atoll Course 80-88: Advanced Gnome Course (alternative)85-88: Advanced Barbarian Course 88-99: Advanced Barbarian Course For anything that you don't have the level for, it is assumed that you will use summer pies. For anything where you can still fail, it is assumed that you will use some sort of boost, be it pies or agility potions or a familiar. It won't even cost you 500k total. Anything written under alternative is a tiny bit slower than the one above it if you're going max speed. However, you won't be going max speed since you haven't done these courses very much, therefore your own personal rate will vary. I have left out Xp rates because they wouldn't really provide meaningful information to you.

Hi Bitterness. We trained Agility together the other day. :)

Change that any time soon in never, he has 200m smithing :P He might smith after 5bil for fun :P Nah, he'll do Agility :P

I think a better question would be: Is anyone that plays enough and can actually be expected to reach it other than Suomi actually going for 5b xp? There's a few people (some really terrible noobs) who have set it as a goal, but will never get it. There are some who are possibly capable of getting it, but have not set it as a goal. The only one who has it both as a goal and is able to get it, in my opinion, is Suomi.

I think the more important question now is whether or not these efficiency discussions are even relevant to the topic of this thread anymore. By the definition you guys are giving, nobody in RuneScape is efficient. In that case, how the [bleep] is it relevant to this thread about somebody managing to get all 200m's? The person who gets it will require some level of efficiency, but the biggest factor by far is how much they can play. Nolifing is the key to anyone getting all 200m's, regardless of if it takes them 2k more hours in RS time. In REAL TIME, they will achieve Xp far faster. By the way, Thai did have a point in my argument having changed throughout today. That doesn't necessarily mean everything he said is correct, though. Call it human pride, if you wish, but it works both way.

Let's lay off the personal attacks, will you?

L2 maths and L2 think about what you're saying before you start saying train only agility then saying you can train any skill alongside later saying get a 40m month (i.e. only train agility and ba for a month) then saying it hasn't been done=impossible then saying its about people quitting then saying its about getting over 72k then saying its about not taking breaks then saying L2<3agility then saying your clan=all possible mindsets then saying you want to see it done for 40m then saying it cant be like farming then saying its about 90-100k then saying tbh. idk how you can even believe yourself there. You randomly switch between rates for no reason other than to raise the same objection at a different rate. Tbh its probably because I missed a comma and my grammar is wrong that you can't understand any part of what I'm saying. Oh look at that, I forgot to put commas before every "then saying", there's really no point in you replying to this because you can't understand it. About half that [cabbage] I did not claim. You seriously need to read deeper into what I say because you're obviously misinterpreting some of it.

What if they enjoy both Agility and BA? Same thing applies. They'd still be limited to a specific schedule and would eventually have to choose between the two.

Tbh, get 200m Xp in a slow non-afkable skill before you start talking about [cabbage] you don't understand.

Wait so now it's 90-100k not over 72k as you previously said? I believe your original argument is that they would quit, not that they wouldn't get 72k+. i.e. they would get over 72k for 10mil xp then quit. Its like you are just switching sides and pretending that you have been looking at the issue from a different angle from the very start when actually you've just been switching angles when your argument runs dry lol. I simply used the rate you guys have been claiming lawl. This isn't even about just me. Other top Agility people have tried it and they all preferred pure Agility. I honestly don't foresee anyone being able to do it as you guys are claiming it can be done.

It comes into account when you wish to compare two skills and are comparing methods that you yourself would not end up using. I originally mentioned this in response to Mithril's comment about his valuation of the BA horn and Agility. I truly don't believe that anyone will ever maintain 90k-100k Xp/hr with the current RS game over a long period of time. Feelings and desires play an extremely large role in anybody doing a ton of skilling, and this really is not taken into account. Most of you people who advocate using the horn also seem to believe that people can just suck up their hate for Agility and manage to do the 2k-3k hours required for 200m. It just isn't going to happen. 1. You cannot hate Agility and complete 200m at the same time. 2. You must grow to enjoy Agility if you wish to complete 200m. 3. BA requires a lot more focus and will give a lot more stress than just the Agility portion. 4. People will sacrifice Xp/hr for something they enjoy more. 5. Eventually, over a period of time, when faced with the decision to go to BA or do more Agility, anybody who seriously enjoys Agility will pick Agility. This really isn't even limited to Agility. Anyone who has done serious skilling will understand that feelings have a massive role in determining whether one will continue to play for a few more hours or decide to log out. Furthermore, feelings also determine whether one quits a goal to begin with. Nobody is going to invest thousands of hours into an optional activity if they don't like it. The smallest amount of Xp per time logged into RS is not really valued as highly as you guys think it is.

It is deemed unsuitable by some people who do not plan on 200m in all skills, and we haven't seen any of the contenders actively training the skill since horn release, so the jury is still very much out on this subject, thus why it is being discussed. I bet if everyone in the top 15 decided to start training agility now, atleast half would use horn for it. For the first few days and then half of that amount would then either quit BA, or both Agility and BA. A few weeks later and the only people still doing Agility would be those who don't regularly use BA. You're assuming they would, but I've seen it actually attempted in practice. It doesn't work.

I am sorry I wasn't really involved in this discussion but I have to ask this question... If the horn is deemed to be unsuitable as a long term training method for 200m agility, why is it even being discussed in this thread? A thread that I may point out has been primarily focused on tracking the progress of those that are contenders for achieving 200m in all skills. 1. You need to get 200m Agility in order to get all 200m's. 2. In order to get 200m Agility, you really can't treat it like Farming. You can't get it in small batches over time. "Efficiently" it'd be better to just keep postponing the goal for better courses and never actually do it. The focus of this thread should be on efficiency methods that are sustainable through nolifing. The first person who will reach all 200m's will be the one that not only can train efficiently, but can nolife well. Also, with such a long goal as Agility is, boredom is a very big factor. I've already explained the details as to why it's unreasonable to expect a player to do 200m Agility with the mindset you guys are giving it.

^ what he said, but i still think it's interesting to know the quickest possible time to complete the game. and i saw my name mentioned up the thread... i will only quit when jagex does or my health forces me too, that's all i'm saying ;) runescape is a great past time and I really don't know what i'd do with all my free time if it wasn't here <3 She*

While I do agree with Jeb on this, him having 335m exp doesn't automatically make him correct. I'm going to have to agree with K4ylan, sorry. My Agility would certainly add weight to my arguments, but it doesn't necessarily mean I'm correct. @xpx As the Agility Xp/hr increases, the BA horn becomes a less viable option. Also, I've already explained multiple times that it very much is possible to do Agility straight with the horn and that it isn't required to do it with breaks if you wish to use the horn. Please stop assuming otherwise. I very much doubt anyone can consistently manage that if you play 10+ hours a day, and trying to do that would likely slow down the average xp. It would be much easier to have a selection of ~20 players who all need to use the horn consistently, too, to team up every once-in-a-while to fill the full horn, thus why it's considered the primary method. I run a clan full of top Agility ranks and, if they were willing to do BA with their training, it wouldn't be hard to schedule daily BA sessions. They play often enough to require that much. In fact, there is also a clan member (a miner) who is part of a team that does just that.

While I do agree with Jeb on this, him having 335m exp doesn't automatically make him correct. I'm going to have to agree with K4ylan, sorry. My Agility would certainly add weight to my arguments, but it doesn't necessarily mean I'm correct. I've already explained multiple times that it very much is possible to do Agility straight with the horn and that it isn't required to do it with breaks if you wish to use the horn. Please stop assuming otherwise. Also, as the Agility Xp/hr increases, the BA horn becomes a less viable option. Keep that in mind as you wait for future updates. By the way, "efficiency" is relative to a particular goal. If my goal were to get Agility Xp as fast as I could (Xp/month), I don't feel that BA would be the best option. The amount of time investment required into learning BA and raising my combat is only one part of the equation. Nolifing should be taken into account. It would likely be impossible for any hardcore nolifer to nolife BA or Dungeoneering without leeching heavily simply because of how brain-intensive those activities are. Running around Agility courses doesn't typically require any brain work once you've got your habits in place. It's very simple to just keep moving and not think when you've been up for 30+ hours straight and haven't slept much the past week. Here's a formal challenge: I'd like to see somebody hit a 40m+ Agility Xp month while using the horn and refilling it a complete 20+ times, or just not letting it be emptied to begin with, whichever is chosen. It's physically possible without the horn, but I doubt it can be done with it and have the player still maintain a higher Xp/hr rate than someone who didn't use the horn. Somebody needs to prove me wrong.

Nobody is going to get 200m Agility gradually over time over the course of 3-5 years while taking a break as often as you guys are claiming they should. It just doesn't work like that. You do big chunks or you don't do it at all. You embrace the grinding or you don't succeed. Until you learn to enjoy the grinding, you will NEVER get 200m Agility. I've been heavily involved in the Agility community for years and have experienced many people aim for post-99 Xp. I know what works and what doesn't. People would willingly choose to not do BA because they'd rather just sit back and relax instead. Until you've completed your own 100m+ Xp in a slow and non-afkable skill, you really can't understand.

I believe that everybody has the potential to enjoy Agility. I have helped tons of people learn to enjoy it. The biggest problem is that people look at the grinding the wrong way. Even if you guys are right about BA being better mathematically, it doesn't necessarily mean it's possible. None of the top Agility people I just asked in my clan right now actually said they'd enjoy doing Agility with BA. Without anybody actually completing Agility long-term with the BA horn, I get the impression that there must be a psychological limitation preventing it from being done. Furthermore, as I showed earlier, it is possible to do Agility consistently with the BA horn and not be required to wait by doing another skill. Going from there, it would be easily feasible to see people doing Agility with BA. It's just not happening though. There are lots of people who enjoy doing Agility long-term, but NONE that like doing it with BA. That should say something. I think the biggest fault when people look at Agility is that they dislike the grinding. It's psychologically impossible to do 100m or 200m Agility while hating the grinding. One would quit the goal long before they got close. Therefore the only way to reach it is if one came to enjoy the grinding. If one enjoys the grinding, then they will hate having that grinding be disrupted. BA requires far too much attention and is so not-grindy that anyone doing 200m Agility would literally choose NOT to use it, even knowing that it may give more Xp/hr and even if they enjoy the minigame. This will ultimately culminate in people getting more Xp/day because they'll decide to stay online for longer because they enjoy Agility that much. This may sound dubious, but this is how it works in practice, not in theory where you guys tend to overlook many of the human factors or just presume certain decisions without actually having experienced it fully yourself. tl;dr version: People who do long-term Agility enjoy the relaxing that is grinding and do not wish to be disturbed by other activities. This is not just me.

Pro teams are required if your interest is to maximise the amount of Xp/hr you received... There's no point in sacrificing an hour or more each time around if you don't need to. Also, not everybody thinks Agility is a [cabbage]ty skill. I run a clan full of people who enjoy training Agility past 99. I've found that most people who hate Agility hate it because they're looking at it the wrong way. Until you reach that trance point, it's really hard to understand. Also, completely irrelevant of my previous arguments, I personally do feel that one would be far less bored doing 200m Agility if they didn't have to take a break from it all the time. Destroying the rhythm of grinding is actually what typically causes people to log out or quit the goal to begin with. The best way I can say to describe this is that it's relaxing and people enjoy relaxing. This is based not only on my personal experiences, but also on the experiences of the hundreds of people I've trained Agility with. You don't set a 200m agil goal (or even 100m) unless you actually enjoy the relaxing portion of grinding. Disrupting that will only end up in worse gains overall and likely the quitting of the goal if you're using xpx's method.

Nobody is doing it now, though. Name me somebody who is actually working towards raising their agil past 99 and is doing it steadily over time. By the way, it would be completely inefficient to use just anybody. Pro team or no team. It also might work if you have a group that does a couple hours every day, but this is using my adaptable idea instead of doing from empty to full. In practice, if it's better to do agility with the horn, it's more efficient to prevent your horn from becoming empty.