Th e Doctor

What makes me sad is that this has derailed into a critique of the mods and not a discussion aimed at removing the false premise that efficiency and fun are mutually exclusive from peoples minds that leads them to believe and comment that all those concerned with efficiency are trolling. In addition to helping establish clear reasons for why fun can not and should not be considered when evaluating what the objective "best" way of doing something is. I get that there are interests in the moderation that are at ends with how we handle help and advice and our playstyles, I was hoping to shed rectify that through helping them understand where we are coming from and why.

k, i guess ill bring a defender for anticrash? Bring a defender for anticrash. Also be careful with the B2P tabs to not use them on the ourg bones he drops before you yak them.

For making money farming herbs is a great way to consistently add to your cashpile. RIP grimy's spreadsheets for avg profit per patch... Also do your dailies. The ones I do are battlestaffs, berts sand, seaweed/pineapples from catherby, broad bolt and arrow tips from my slayer master, and I update MTK every day (this can alternatively be done once a week with 1.35 mil in the coffers and 100% approval). Which nets me about a mil a day not including my 4 herb runs which brings in another mil.

=1.44 mil from bones alone (6 k ea) Have you done any math/testing to see if its better money to only pick up the bones? You would just need to know how much time you spend banking/actually killing etc. Hides bringing in 480 k an hour and bones bringing in 1440 k an hour you would need to add another 80 kills/hr to match the profits. I would imagine its ~ 2 min of killing to ~ 3 min of banking so double that for picking bones up only and you're looking at 7 min trips of 40 dragons each for 60 min or ~342 dragon bones which at 6 k each =2052 k in bones All that is moot if your times for banking/killing are significantly different than my estimates. Edit Make sure you farm your herbs every 1.5 hours. If you have a scroll of cleansing make them into unf pots for more profit (~55 k more profit per run with snapdragons). Obviously don't make torstols into unf pots :P banking takes 30 seconds. bank 12 times. 6 minutes. 80 kills in 6 minutes = no. picking up hides is better. also when not picking up bones you need to take 2 doses of p pot and you have to redrink antfire and x pots 3/4 through the trip. wastes antifire significantly. tl;dr taking hides is better @keeb, use a whip. green drags defence is so low that the difference between stab and slash defence makes next to no difference Thanks for the clarification. +1 on the green dragons defense being so low that the whips higher str is much more beneficial.

He asked DFS vs Spectral. I answered. Shinanigans. You didn't specify in any capacity which would be better for his purpose. You told him that its nearly useless.

The more obvious reason that they are trolling is that they don't educate themselves before posting. If Im not sure what the best advice is then I look it up. its the posters responsibility to be knowledgeable about the issue before posting. Which is why I almost never post on boss hunting topics. To your other post im not trying to sugar coat anything. Im trying to avoid personal attacks, something strive for IRL and online.

I have absolutely no problem with people making fun of me based on that. You also assume that everything that isn't efficient is inefficient, which really isn't true. It's common for people to laugh at stupidity in real life, but it's a serious offense to do so in rs? please... And ofcource, grimy, i agree. As a mod danq should know better than to instigate heated debates on this soft subject, particularly as he can't take any sides(he is retired, likely looks down on people who do play based on some of what he does/says). Regardless of whether or not I agree with you on the latter half of this post this doesn't help xpx. You're one of the people I always am happy to see posting in H&A because you know what you're talking about, but the personal attacks on danq arent becoming of you...

It doesn't matter what you're talking about or how sweetly you try to word things, as soon as the word "stupid" enters an argument, it's no longer a civil or respectful discussion. Words like "stupid", "moronic", "imbecile", etc. shouldn't have any place in a mature discussion and only serve to incite the other side into anger. Also, when you openly insult what someone does, whether it's their job, their shopping habits or the way they play games, they are going to take it personally, whether or not you meant it that way. You may not consider a person's actions to be representative of that person, but a lot of people use their actions to define themselves to others, and at the same time, they see how others act as definitive of the other person's identity. And a persons inabilty to distinguish between their actions and theirself as a person is my fault how? And why does maturity mean that we can't call something that is not smart what it is? This is exactly the problem. We can't say things as they are because people get offended and call us trolls. It is far more likely that the maturity issue is on the half of those who can't take constructive criticism. Massive Wall of Text if viewing from a mobile phone below... [Hide] I highlighted the part that's relevant to why people don't like the efficiency crowd; it's little asides like the one bolded that makes average players hate efficiency proponents. There are tons of posts here from a lot of different members that include such asinine comments and snide remarks. I can almost see the efficiency proponents looking down their noses at everyone else, sniffing snidely at us and asking, "Why can't you just be more like us, you know, smart and efficient?" I'm not saying that is what happens, but that's how it feels to those of us who have received such treatment. Just like what I said earlier in this post, you can't use inflammatory language like that and expect people to not react to it. That's why most people get the impression - false or not - that the efficiency camp is a bunch of snobbish, elitist buffoons that can't see past their collections of numbers and realize there's more than one way to train effectively. For some people, "efficient" is more than just number crunching to get the best bottom line dividend. For example, people keep telling me that the best way to train Slayer is to get tasks from the highest level Slayer Master in order to get the fastest xp rate. I disagree because I can't justify spending that much money on food and gear just to train a skill I despise simply to do a quest or two. I'd rather go for the easier tasks that I don't have to invest any money or food into, even if it takes a little longer. Sure, I could go to Vannaka or Sumona, fight some dragons or killerwatts, spend a couple thousand gp on food (not to mention wasting time going back and forth from a bank to the nearest training spot), or I could skip all that, do a few more tasks of goblins and banshees and keep my cash to buy supplies for skills I actually enjoy, such as smithing or crafting. Personally, I find that to be far more efficient than simply getting the highest xp/hr. [/hide] What is snide about my comment about how relatively easy it is to make a decent sum on money for anyone who plays this game? We don't care if you're like us, we do care if you try to misinform players about what is efficient and what's not. I actually have better things to do than waste my time looking down my nose at people who purposefully train in inefficient ways, and if they are having fun I applaud them and then don't give them a second thought. There is nothing inflammatory about stating that the vast majority of plays have access to mort myre funus picking... And you don't find it efficient, you find it more enjoyable. And actually if you were to post in H&A about how to do these tasks you're wasting thousands of gp on you might find that we could identify a way for you to not use so much food and slay them...efficiently *shudders at how many times I've typed that word*. Way to not read or comment on anything this thread has discussed...

I agree with you on subjectivity until you say that advice cannot be given on fun due to its subjectivity. It is harder to give advice concerning fun, but not impossible. Advice may be the wrong word, suggestion probably fits better. I see no harm in somebody suggesting a method they find fun if it has some relevance to the OP's request as it is still giving them advice. Yes those who flame efficient posts are in the wrong, but also are those who flame inefficient posts. both sides need to calm down, either ignore the others or learn how to reply with respect and subtlety. Agreed that suggestion is definitively a better word to use when asking what to do for fun. I don't have an issue with suggesting something for fun. My issue is when said fun method is inefficient and the suggester (I just made a word?) insists that it is. When we say no it isn't we arent trying to say its not fun, we're correcting something they are objectively wrong on. And I always make a point to respond in a way that is curteous. I still get flamed for being an "efficianado". At this point in my day the "e" word is starting to sound funny because I've typed it soooo many times. I'll check back when my brain stops trying to ooze out of my ears...

It all depends on the question, if the question isn't specific it should be asked what he exactly wants. If I say I want to train mining in a different way then mining granite and want to store my ores and don't care about money and xp because I would be smithing armour/ammo from it and I want some fun ways/places to achieve that, then saying: Mine granite and buy your ores is trolling. In your case, the answers are all good (except for the player B saying that armoured zombies aren't fun without explaining why), but the question wasn't specific enough, he should state what he thinks is fun (like I want to collect good bones for prayer, I want to get much money out of it, I want to train slayer at the same time, I want the best xp rates possible etc.). I agree with your sentence "f it's not right for an efficient player to always assume that other players have fun playing efficiently, it's just as wrong for someone to assume that someone doesn't have fun playing efficiently." But that doesn't say that you should not give people the advice they want just because there are more efficient ways then the TS wants. @ tieszen I never asked for the best, same as other people do, but some people just can't understand that playing inefficient is fun too, the same as some players can't understand that efficient is fun too. Also "the best" is not directly "the best efficiently method" it could be "the best money making method" "the best afk-able method" or even "the best fun method" that is why you should not only say "I want the best method" but say something like "I want the best xp rates" or "I want the best money maker" of course you cannot say "I want the best fun method" so if you want fun ways you should explain what you think is fun or give examples of other methods you think are fun so people can give you something that works the same way as the other method. To your mining scenario I would respond "Go find a spot that you think is fun and train there, no one can tell you what you will find enjoyable". Then I would ask if he wanted a list of places he could easily mine and bank, and why he is intent on smelting/smithing his own ore that he mined. If he wants the list and is doing it for his own personal satisfaction (perhaps he's a DIY account) then I give him the list and pro's and cons of each spot (distance from the bank etc) but I can't tell him if they will be fun or not. If he wants the list and is doing it because he thinks its the best way to train smithing I will politely tell him that he could save lots of time by superheating or smelting (or both if he doesn't mind it) gold ore with gauntlets for faster smithing exp and bonus magic exp. There is no best fun method so that point is moot. And best efficient method takes into consideration all of those things you mentioned (gp/hr exp/hr afkability etc). The goal is to be efficient in what you want. Guaranteed you've never found a money making thread asking for combat ways to make money and heard "Go to AZ's cuz they're better melee exp/hr". edit For the last time We are not assuming that others will enjoy putting our advice into practice. We aren't assuming that they won't enjoy it either. We're assuming that when they ask for the best way of doing something that the response should be based on providing the individual with the highest cost benefit ratio with relation to what their goal is. If they want fun we can not help them outside of providing a list of all possible options. Unfortunately when said list is presented often times the poster then asks which is better...which leads us back to asking what their goal is aside from fun. I find that a perfect answer, you gave the person many options, answered the question that he had and also gave him information to inform him about better ways, so he can choose a fun and/or efficient way for himself. Now if all the persons acted like you said this thread would not be here. It would already change if most of the people change their words in a way that they are nice instead of ranting the player but basically saying the same thing. This thread is here because any time efficiency is mentioned, trolling or not, it is labeled as trolling. I'm hoping that by showing that while efficiency and fun are not mutually exclusive the latter is not something that advice can be given on due to its subjective nature. Because this is true the most efficient way of doing things is the only reasonable way of giving advice. I have given advice nearly identical to someone before on these forums and still got flamed and called a clown for even suggesting there may be better ways of training. Its not right and I'd like to have a rational discussion on how to avoid our being lumped in with the people who legitimately post just to irritate people. Unfortunately since we are called clowns for our love for being rational i fear this may be hopeless...

Forgive me for not reading the entire thread, but I would argue that a person's actions do make a person (or at least to some extent). That said, calling a person's training methods stupid can indeed be considered insulting or rude, and does help create arguments on the whole "efficiency vs fun" issue. For example, I reached 99 mining in free to play by mining and superheating mithril ore and coal in the mining guild - a method which I found satisfying as well as profitable, despite it taking many weeks (or months even) and being "inefficient". On one occasion a F2p user asking for advice on mining with the wish of training smithing and making money, so I suggested this method for him. I then had the pleasure of watching what you call an "efficiency troll" call me an idiot for having trained mining this way, and told the asker to become P2p and powermine granite, because that was "by far the best method in the game" according to him. The problem that I see is not so much the fact that some people prefer efficiency where others (like myself) often prefer slower and possibly "more fun" methods of training, but the fact that apparently answering a question no longer seems about answering what the asker wants to know, but more about trying to "win" with this notion of efficiency versus fun. At times users are rude, arrogant and just obnoxious with their notion of being "right about what is best" where it always will be a matter of opinions. What do I mean you may ask? Threads like this one right here. I dare you just to read the first 10 posts, and hopefully you'll see what I mean. About actions =/= person I have to disagree with you. A smart person can make very stupid decisions for a lot of reasons, being misinformed by someone whom they trust, being underinformed before they made the choice, or not being in a proper state of mind when deciding (due to emotions, drugs or what have you). I am always careful to clarify that the person isn't stupid, that only their actions are. Example. Person A wants to train melee. He looks up the stats for a Godsword and a whip and ignorant of how much the speed of a weapon influences your potential damage output in a given period of time he picks the Godsword. After training with it he wonders if he could be getting better exp/hr so he asks in H&A to which us efficiency clowns inform him that a whip will be better for training quickly. He was training with a stupid method before he asked but he was not stupid. Now that he is informed if he chooses to keep training with the Godsword and complain about the low exp/hr he is stupid. If he chooses to keep it for fun then he's having a good time and no one can argue with him about it. He still is smart and knows that a whip is going to be better, but is training stupidly for the sake of fun. Example 2 (which is perhaps much more common). I have a friend who is extremely intelligent, full ride to MIT off of academics and an IQ of 187. He still chooses to get drunk on the weekends for "fun" and one weekend he made the choice while drunk to sleep with a girl who ended up getting pregnant. Was it a smart thing to do given all the stuff he has going for him in life that could be ruined by the potential consequences? Nope. Does this in anyway diminish his stark intellectual prowess? Nope. It just means a smart person made a stupid choice. For mining I don't judge you for training with grossly inefficient methods, you had fun doing it so fine. The fact is the poster who asked for help had other options for mining and smithing that would be better for him in terms of exp/hr and gp/hr (mining iron and banking in the resource dungeon with MTK workers on coal would have netted him better exp and faster money). However the troll who called you an idiot has my pity, he does not represent what I'm trying to articulate in this thread. And lol at that thread, I posted in it ;) You'll notice that in addition to the trolls whom I do not endorse (besides the fact that there are two anti efficiency trolls for every one of them) myself and two other posters let him know the most efficient way of doing his relatively inefficient training. Which is what myself and the others like me always do.

Which doesn't pertain at all to his question. This is not helpful nor is it advice. OT: No clue about spec vs dfs. From what I've seen posted arma is about 3-4 kills per trip more than Karils.

For agility if you don't want to do the wildy course to 70 you can switch to the werewolf course at 60(?). Slightly lower exp/hr at the benefit of no pkers. With an EE you wont need food either. Lacking that baskets of stawrberries are the next best thing. For fishing you can alternately do C2 fishing in your early floors for DG, at your level it will be much less click intensive than barbarian fishing and be ~=exp. At higher levels its faster than barb be a decent amount (maxing at around 90 k exp an hour depending on the method used to do it).

Not much to discuss here but I guess its nice for while it lasts. Probably should have been posted as a tip in H&A. Great for pures who don't trade their mains for cash who are just starting out.

quoted for win. also, for pointing out pulli's terrible argument lol. Thanks :) I'm studying aerospace engineering.. Here efficiency is always the questions to ask.. However efficiency is nothing without looking at the circumstances: soemthing is only efficient under certain circumstances. If you don't grasp this I will have to keep calling you a "clown" since further discussion is not really possible.. It's like those who are answering (when I ask for the average drop rate of item X): "it's random"; Or trying to discuss fundamental physics (bing bang) with theists.. First of all if you read the OP you would have seen that any comments that are inflammatory towards a persons religious beliefs are against the rules. Im a theist and im offended, mostly because I do undedrstand your "bing" bang theory. Secondly I'm studying exercise science and so I deal with efficiency a lot as well, namely efficiency of movement VO2max etc. So I am well aware that efficiency is determined by its context. Your ad hominim arguements about my intelligence however don't make your point valid. Namely because we all have the same context, that being a game. And the only way to measure the efficiency of something is with definite quantitative numbers. The numbers we have to work with in this game are gp, exp, and time. Trying to incinuate that something like killing green dragons is more efficient gp/hr versus killing TD's for gp/hr on the basis that you lack the skill to do so is nonsensical. Your inability to kill TD's from lack of skill does not change the fact that it is indeed better gp/hr. Don't try to act like efficient ways of playing this game are anywhere close to as complex as something like aerospace engineering. Edit For clarification we reserve the word "best" for describing things that can be measured quantitatively, because on matters of opinion it loses all its capabilites to describe anything. If I enjoy killing lvl 2 men it doesn't make it the best money maker. It makes it my favorite. It is ok to have something that is your favorite that isn't the best, just don't call it the best, call it your favorite. Wait, you know that efficiency is based upon a context.... Yet you don't see the fact that the context also includes what a human can and what a human can not do? Just like choices made by goverments (in the form of taxes) change the fact which plane is more efficient at which country. In runescape efficiency is not only determined with cost & time analyse; As said difficulty (which in runescape itself manifests as possibility to do "spike" loads as well as the ability to continue the method for long times) also is an important factor. You can try to refuse this, but whenever you give advice about what is more efficient you should always take this into account - if you can't calculate it: that is fine but always add the note then: "this method is very difficult, an easier method is ...." so the poster of the question can still determine wether or not the method is most efficient for him. This might sometimes tip the balance in favour of other methods, and unless you can prove it is "ridiculous" you can never completely write down a method to do something. For example IF prayer flashing would become very, very important (ie prayers are needed, yet prayer potion price is many times as expensive as they now are) a person might be more efficient using a longsword (or maul) over the rapier: with a slower speed he would be able to flash his prayers better, leading in less (taken) damage or more dealt damage! Again, your personal inability to successfully use the most efficient methods does not make your method the most efficient for you. It makes it the most doable by you. My owning a 1995 saturn that can't go above 70 mph without the steering column shaking doesn't make 70 mph the most fastest speed a car can go. It makes it the fastest speed I am capable of going. Please stop trying to make efficiency a subjective thing when it is an objective thing. Granted that it only becomes so once you have an established context for what you are measuring, which we do. In your opinion. But that doesn't mean everyone thinks that way. In what way you have fun is not stated by a definition it is an opinion. Research provides the best known way to do something. Is that an opinion? Best known mathematically, but that isn't how some people have fun. If you're idea of fun is to get the most exp/gp/points/rank out of your time, so be it. Some of us don't think of it like that. But that's not the point. The point is that you can't measure how an individual has fun, and you can't really tell someone what will be fun for them, and what will not. It's quite hypocritical. For instance, look at fast dungeoneering versus slow dungeoneering. Undoubtedly there will be people who say that slow dungeoneering is less stressful, more fun, etc. What they're missing is that there are people who feel exactly the opposite. Fast dungeoneering is less frustrating, less repetitive, etc. Fun isn't quantifiable. Something that's fun for you isn't necessarily fun to someone else. Therefore, advice should never be given in terms of what method is more fun. Advice should always be towards achieving the goals presented, and having fun isn't really a goal anyone can help you with. [/hide]I have seen many threads where players asked other ways (fun ways) then the efficient way to train a skill . Why should advice not been given in terms of fun if the player asks for it? Because we can't know what the individual finds fun. Only he/she can...through trying things him/herself. We arent arguing that you should play for fun, we're saying we can't tell you what to do for fun because its different for everyone. What we can tell you is what's the same for everyone, namely things like gp/exp, gp/hr, exp/hr etc. If you want a list of things to try for fun then ask for a list of things to try for fun. But don't ask for the best way to do something and then say its not the best because its not fun, because you did not ask for fun...you asked for the best. Edit Even one's like these? Totally useless, completely ignorant and incredibly rude. Rude yes, ignorant and useless no. The OP in that thread said he was trying to save money...by using a godsword (min 10 mil pricetag at the time) vs a whip (1.4 mil at the time) on the basis of whips being overrated, even in light of the fact that a whip+rune defender out dps's a gs in virtually all conceivably situations. His post was worded poorly but it was correct in its factual information. Especially given the OP's expressed desire to save money. Edit 2 Ninja'd :(

There is something to give fish a mention in that the exp rates arent "bad", its much more afk, and you can make money on it. If you want afk to watch movies while you play (how I prefer to train cooking) then that's an option. If you want the fastest exp, wines is where its at. With fish be sure to use urns for the best exp/hr.

You don't need the range helm if you're melee'ing. The cannons accuracy is determined by your highest accuracy stat (which is melee) and the damage boost doesn't apply at all. Hence your cannon will be more accurate with the melee helm.

Lots of posts and just finished reading them, first of all I'm studying aerospace engineering.. Here efficiency is always the questions to ask.. However efficiency is nothing without looking at the circumstances: soemthing is only efficient under certain circumstances. If you don't grasp this I will have to keep calling you a "clown" since further discussion is not really possible.. It's like those who are answering (when I ask for the average drop rate of item X): "it's random"; Or trying to discuss fundamental physics (bing bang) with theists.. First of all if you read the OP you would have seen that any comments that are inflammatory towards a persons religious beliefs are against the rules. Im a theist and im offended, mostly because I do undedrstand your "bing" bang theory. Secondly I'm studying exercise science and so I deal with efficiency a lot as well, namely efficiency of movement VO2max etc. So I am well aware that efficiency is determined by its context. Your ad hominim arguements about my intelligence however don't make your point valid. Namely because we all have the same context, that being a game. And the only way to measure the efficiency of something is with definite quantitative numbers. The numbers we have to work with in this game are gp, exp, and time. Trying to incinuate that something like killing green dragons is more efficient gp/hr versus killing TD's for gp/hr on the basis that you lack the skill to do so is nonsensical. Your inability to kill TD's from lack of skill does not change the fact that it is indeed better gp/hr. Don't try to act like efficient ways of playing this game are anywhere close to as complex as something like aerospace engineering. Edit For clarification we reserve the word "best" for describing things that can be measured quantitatively, because on matters of opinion it loses all its capabilites to describe anything. If I enjoy killing lvl 2 men it doesn't make it the best money maker. It makes it my favorite. It is ok to have something that is your favorite that isn't the best, just don't call it the best, call it your favorite.

Note that due to the delay in fermenting wines maturing if you're keeping a constant pace of adding your grapes you can use brawling gloves, tele to the wildy (on ancients obviously) and receive the bonus exp for all of them fermenting at once in your bank. It only takes one charge per batch off your gloves and over 2 mil exp/hr can be achieved with this. Even if you don't have cooking brawlers wines are still the best way to go.

Everything said pretty much covers your best options. Nechs were given only a small mention but chinning them with a yak to bank the ashes is over a mil gp/hr and very decent crimson charms as well as ~190 k range exp/hr. Bladewing (may he rest in peace) made a good guide about it in the general guides section of these forums. Not fantastic for effigies though. Is there a reason you want to get 99 agility outside of the cape and the additional 2 seconds shaved off of your run energy recharge rate from 0 to 100? If not I would recommend just waiting until your burnout from grinding is over and grab a master penance horn to do your advanced courses. If anything that frees up your effigies for use on other skills like rc that are slow to train or dump the 540 k exp from lamps (with the black demon method) into summoning to leave you with only 260 k summoning exp to go. Hope that helped.

NR1 rs high scores is the best in terms of total exp and levels. We clowns say whoever can maintain the best exp/hr is the best at maintaining the best exp/hr. Compare apples to apples. Best can only be used in descriptions of comparison between like variables that can be measured.

This is the problem. I don't in any way shape or form see playing efficiently as a detriment to how much I enjoy playing the game. Saying that 90% of efficient training methods are boring and mindless is 1) a made up statistic and 2) only true for certain individuals, with only yourself being identified thus far as one of them. I don't get upset seeing someone do something inefficient, I simply think "I hope their having fun while they waste their time". And in game I don't address anyone unless addressed first. And how does one measure who is the better player if not by exp rates, gp/hr rates etc? Certainly it can't be who has the most fun, because that is subjective and also isn't dependant on the game. Getting drunk and DGing is certainly going to net me more fun than someone who is sober DGing, but that doesn't make me a better player than him. Sadly for this game grinding=playing, so being a better grinder=being a better player. What posters in H&A are asking for the worst methods? None of them. No one goes into H&A looking to find the 3rd best method of doing something, they want the best. And as said before if they want to know what's the most fun they wont/shouldn't post because no one can tell them what they will have fun with. When did i ever say i hate being efficient? :\ nice assumption, clown. Certain skills you just have to be efficient with (Fishing the biggest imo). And as for"the best player" - that is also very subjective so that agruement is invalid. Where did I say you hate being efficient? You said that 90% of efficient training methods are boring and mindless and I pointed out that this was a made up statistic and also largely a matter of personal opinion (the boring and mindless part). I think punching monkeys for theiving exp is fun. It also happens to be efficient. If you find in mindless and boring then fine, go train in a less efficient way that you find to be more fun. Obt covered the "best player" response well enough, thanks obt.

=1.44 mil from bones alone (6 k ea) Have you done any math/testing to see if its better money to only pick up the bones? You would just need to know how much time you spend banking/actually killing etc. Hides bringing in 480 k an hour and bones bringing in 1440 k an hour you would need to add another 80 kills/hr to match the profits. I would imagine its ~ 2 min of killing to ~ 3 min of banking so double that for picking bones up only and you're looking at 7 min trips of 40 dragons each for 60 min or ~342 dragon bones which at 6 k each =2052 k in bones All that is moot if your times for banking/killing are significantly different than my estimates. Edit Make sure you farm your herbs every 1.5 hours. If you have a scroll of cleansing make them into unf pots for more profit (~55 k more profit per run with snapdragons). Obviously don't make torstols into unf pots :P

Welcome back, your addiction community of online friends missed you.

Nope, same person. Jactise is my labtop, this is my mobile phone so I can...there's really no good reason come to think of it... Thanks for the good luck though! Hopefully by doing it in the small batches I will avoid this... http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=US#/watch?xl=xl_blazer&v=_66zAwJKT1c