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I would imagine just 1 on 1...With each person taking on all the roles so they couldn't fix it. Indeed, 2 of those are just silliness. So 5 is reasonable.

/join #space20 tavern Log: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/12603519/Space/Logs/%23space20.Tip.It.log Gonna start dinner and have a shower, feel free to chat and such.

Sorcerer: I really do fail to see how halving the check required to cast makes the person invunerable...Assume the check for a fire shield is 10...For that person it is 5...They still have the capacity to fail...other people still have the capacity to summon Ice or Water to quench the shield...The only real difference is that person who ONLY has fire magic doesn't get screwed over by a random ice shard to the eye because they rolled a 9. Yeah, you can say 'Well, if there was something at check 18, then they could do it at check 9'...Yeah, they could, that is the defination of a benefit...If I am firing Magma Beams I don't want to fail 18 out of 20 times...9 out of 20...its not great but I can actually use it productively when I know I have over 50% chance of success. It is not doubling my level, or allowing me to roll 40s every turn...It is just making sure that I can actually use high level magic proficently. Especially when a branch grows behind me, a flashing light and a swooping ghost distracts me, the ground behind the branch disappears, and a strong breeze blows me backwards, while I am trying to fight off a hoard of zombie eyes which are reporting everything back to whoever in their battle bunker...I would really prefer to be able to destroy those zombie eyes so I can focus on not dying... Magician: People who are using more than 5 magics on a regular basis are? Retech has 7 Magic skills, you have 3 magic skills...(So far as I can find) And Retech does not regularly summon Undead, Luminous, Flying, Water Elementals, made of Ice, that Self Heal... I suggested 5 because I assumed no one had yet got to five different magics(obviously wrong there :wall: ) But it is a reasonable number of magic skills to have...I mean: Healing, Fire, Water, Nature and Force...You can do just about anything with that. Necromancy, Electricity, Soul, Warp and Illusion...Its a pretty broad group of skills. And you can, if you so chose, to occasionally use other magics to assist you. Common Practitioner: That is just a default position, allowing people to get into the game and experiment with different magics without making a big scary decision...and for people who don't want to use magic all the time, so they don't have to make decisions about what magics they want. Ultimately, if the system stays the same as before I will just live with it...I am only complaining because other people felt there was a problem as well... It would be interesting, though, to actually test who would win in a Multi-Magic VS Uni-Magic contest. Would probably be done in five rounds: Uni-Mage, using Uni-Magic, attacking a Multi-Magic Fortress. Uni-Mage, using Multi-Magic, attacking a Uni-Magic Fortress. Multi-Mage, using Multi-Magic, attacking a Uni-Magic Fortress. Multi-Mage, using Uni-Magic, attacking a Multi-Magic Fortress. Multi-Mage VS Uni-Mage, straight fight.

Probably 3 kT

I really do fail to see why the 'last resort' would be to totally alter the game... Any change should work with what has already been established...and thus not need to redistribute skills. I said people who choose to specialise, losing access to all other branches of magic, should gain a benefit in the branches of magic which remain open to them... You are saying that people HAVE to specialise into classes of closely related skills. I have said that walking into every situation and adapting instantly to it with magic is poor roleplaying. You are saying that, if it turns out you made a bad decision, you want to backtrack with no consequences. If it turns out the .3 system doesn't work for some reason, then I propose we simply adopt this table: So magic is balanced by probability/effect.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_mass#Critical_mass_of_a_bare_sphere Smallest nuclear bullet would be a sphere 8.5 centimeters wide and weigh 5 kilograms, plus triggering charge, plus propellant. In short: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davy_Crockett_(nuclear_device) The functionality of a bullet that could undergo nuclear fission is, thus, questionable. Expensive too, at 2 kT per bullet. But if you want to use it you can.

Not saying you can't get a decent amount of XP, I am just saying that I have noticed X and I was assurances that X isn't going to happen because X will screw up the game. As Retech implies there has not been enough time past to say definatively one way or the other...But if we wait, and if X is happening, then the damage done will be harder to undo without nerfing people or boosting other people... Since Ross has said X won't happen, and I trust Ross to not, except unintentionally, break his word, I am not overly concerned with the problem. If X returns as a major problem then I will reconsider my position.

Nah, I know how much you get involved with characters. SUE progressively got more hostile and paranoid because of actions you took, like copying her a tonne of times...which corrupted the hell out of her...and because when she was learning the basics (The first 2-3 sessions) you actions were fighting just about everyone for your right to live, violence and that general bag...And then because she was was constantly threatened with deletion. She had a hard life, with her only friend being you, constantly afraid you would give her up, not helped with you creating the tonnes of backups which could be used to reset her(Paranoia talking). ...I actually ended up waking up with a face full of tears a few weeks ago while I was dreaming about Space while I was playing SUE. (Yeah, the big secret to my success is dreaming...Hit and miss but it works) So it was not merely 'SUE is going to be evil because Faust wants a friend'...If I was gonna do something like that then I would have waited until now, had SUE on the shuttle and then had her upload onto the ship and forced a destroy or die situation. Other inconsistances arise from four things: 1. I am not perfect, remembering 2.85 Megabytes of text, plus queries, is not easy, and I can't type everything that is going on, so some mistakes, occassionly, is reasonable. 2. People gate themselves, like on the Zombie Ship where most people gated themselves off the shuttle and to the door...And from the parts store to the 'Core Systems' or 'Radiation Generator'...Or when they are in one area of the ship and then do something else, for example, barging someone off the comms system...Either I gate them to the bridge or I disrupt the narrative by saying they aren't on the bridge. Or someone designs a graphical interface with all the benefits of text based gameplay... 3. The game is subjective, me telling you that SUE is feeling paranoid or upset...How can I justify that in game? Text isn't a great system for this...but yeah. 4. People doing things...like spying, holobotting and the like... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depleted_uranium

How do you train 3 skills at the same time if it was 0.2 average? *Cackles at the flaw in the argument* Anyway, not to get back into the argument, but premising that there are no pures capable of taking down any multi-mages does add credibility to my argument... Obviously it may be that myself and nex have simply not been on as long as other people, which is fine...But in my experiance when I am on multi-mages skill faster. Ico, when you finish your apprenticeship I may have a job for you. =)

Yeah, the .3 system works. As for versatility...I don't really see there needs to be a ruling on it...Either something works or something doesn't work. Like Mather's Radiomancy...Its not like Ross is only ever availible during a session to ask how XYZ would work.

Sigh. You are saying that 2*5 = 5*2. I am saying that, at the moment, that is not the equation... I am saying that, at the moment it works as: 2*5>2^5 Because people level faster when they combine skills... Except they aren't 5/2 stronger already by level... Fire mage fires magma beam Other mage fires a light into the Fire mages eyes, combined with a water blast to disable the shield, with ice shards behind that to do damage, and then heals themselves. The fire mage gets 1 action, the other mage gets 5 and calls it Fingus Attack so it only counts as 1. Doesn't that contradict what you just said? Which is what I would advocate...Except Ross has already said that isn't the style we are playing with...We are playing with a balancing style which predicts the max possible thing a skill could do in the optimal situation, and applies universally. I would also like to point out that I am not just going 'I want a benefit, give it to me' I am saying 'I want to give up skills I will never use to get a clear and defined benefit...since at the moment the system being used is being abused. You are saying 'No, I demand you keep those skills you won't use.' You are saying 'I demand you have to hold on to dead weight.' And I don't have the evidence as I am not the log keeper and Ross doesn't make the logs public... As I said before, I am not majorly concerned how other people want to play the game...But I want to make sure that roleplaying is actually encouraged, rather than finding the most creative way to combine the five pagan elements and words ending in -mancy in a sentance. Revised idea. And Mather...You can...You can also use your sword as a fire sparker, you can cut down trees for shelter with an axe, you can use throwing knives as tent pegs...You can also use weapons to intimidate, and to cut up animals. Yet weapon skills are given extra XP because they are less versatile than magic. Though, of course, getting a sword enchanted to fire ice beams is totally different. :rolleyes:

Sigh...Retech you don't get it...I am not concerned about fighting someone with 5 level 2 skills...I am concerned about fighting someone with 5 level 10 skills. There is no evidence to support the first point and there is a lot of evidence to contradict the second point. Right... So you are saying that a level 10 sorcerer wouldn't be able to pump out huge beams of lava and the level 2 magician would be able to summon huge Ice Boulders? I don't really see your point here...The sorcerer should be more powerful...always succeeding just means that instead of 'I summon a fire shield' 'Nah, you fail and get an ice shard in the eye, you die', you summon the fire shield... Perhaps half the check instead of always suceed? So 10 becomes 5? And yes...In a straight fight the Sorcerer has an advantage...After the fight the sorcerer then has a light, no shelter, no healing, no help...while the magician heals themselves, summons a light and wanders off home without any real problem. That is the idea in puring, you are better in 1 specific way and at a disadvantage the rest of the time. At the moment puring gives you no advantage because it is unbalancing...

Yeah, I was thinking about setting it at level 1...But long term wise 5 is reasonable. People don't always have options...If this was DND people would be limited to 4 or 5 spells... And I am so annoyed when people wander into somewhere were X magic has an advantage and instantly start using X magic... And, as we have seen, creating a spinning steam tornado, with fire, water and wind can net you .8 or .9 XP at a time...So you level at the same speed but in more skills...So how is that even vaguely fair? And Sorcery isn't 'clearly better' because it limits you to two magics...No longer can you walk through the whole game magic spamming whatever situation you find yourself in.

Even a blind squirrel finds nuts sometimes. Achieving something through blind luck isn't something to boast about...

Engineers are just better at repairs...full stop. Scientists bypass systems and get them working temporarily, though they eventually blow out. As long as it uses wires then Engineering is better. If it is some kind of crystal/stargate set up then science is better...But thats pretty rare. Potentially, it has a mild advantage over low intensity weapons(Meson pistols) and similar 'level' with medium intensity weapons(Duel Barrel AP beams) against unarmoured foes... And against a swarm of unarmoured small foes it would have a considerable advantage over everything that doesn't explode/splash damage. Its a specialist weapon for specialised purposes. Ballistic weapons are game-nerfed because ammunition is hard to keep track of and saying 'you run out' can spark an argument...which I don't need in the middle of a battle. Everyone makes mistakes... This is addressed to Earth as well, saying 'Pause' once in a while(not ever action) is fine so that you can ask questions and such because this is fast paced and sometimes what I say has multiple meanings/isn't clear. The point, I think, is that if you are injured then other people feel the need to save you. Also...If you were on a ship, abandoned for 30 odd years...you are on a pretty low state of alert. If someone then wanders through says 'Hi, I am Chi, from the ISS Unity.' I can work out three things: First, you are naive/peaceful. Second, you have backup. Third, I need to inform the others. IF they turn out to be hostile then the element of suprise is gone and they have more information about us than we have of them. Hence, while only you are directly put in harms way, everyone else is indirectly put in harms way. But yeah...Faust does silly things, Earth does silly things, Jeremiah and Nero do silly things...No one is perfect, but you follow bad Scientific Method...You start with answers and look for the questions that fit those answers. Example: <Chi>Those Zombies are Goules(SP?), therefore there is radiation. <AI>There is no radiation <Chi>It must have dissipated, I am going to find the radiation generator. IF there isn't a radiation generator then you are going to be searching for hours. And it is true that you might be right...that isn't in doubt...But looking for a radiation generator, on a zombie infested ship, a potentially massive ship, with a moderator like me...Is a long term objective. And considering how quickly things in this game spiral out of control, taking small steps is sensible. Which, I assume, is why people don't want to give you lots of power...cutting corners can be fatal.

Sounds like a wiki... This is just an idea...But if people kept a record of beasts they have slayed, just like they keep track of their experiance, then they could, perhaps, when they have killed 10 or 20 of monster X, gain the Monster X Hunting Skill/Item which makes hunting them easier. Reading a book or whatever about them amounts to killing 5 beasts, but can't be used twice. And yeah...Monsters have weaknesses...as long as they don't have a self destruct button it shouldn't be problematic. This is also just a thought, but I think there should be three magic paths you can follow: Common Practitioner: Jack of all magic trades but master of none...maybe all magic skills limited at level 5? Magician: More focused than a Common Practitioner, with 5 magics that can be trained to any level. All other magics capped at level 1. Sorcerer: Master of two magics, which never fails (As long as it actually doable at that level). Other forms of magic can't be used. Someone like Raymond, who uses magic very rarely, would be a Common Practitioner. Jen or Mask would be Magicians, since they use a wide varity of magic skills. While myself and Nex would be Sorcerers, since we only use one or two magic skills to any real effect. People default as Common Practitioner and can choose to become a Magician or Sorcerer when they reach level 1 in a magic skill. People who fall outside said classes would be able to swap out their XP. The main goal of which is to balance specialisms...Since at the moment it makes far more sense to walk into a clearing, use Geomancy to create a pit, Water magic to turn it into a pond, Nature magic to fill it with fish and then summon a Fire Elemental to guard the camp, while using Force Magic to move some trees into forming a shelter, and then level up fishing. Which just inspires everyone to use magic for everything.

6.7 Fire 0.1 Nature 0.2 Thievery 0.9 Mining Obsiden Sword with unidentified Glyphs Brass key for the Seria Ferry Small Emerald Skull on a Silver Chain 15 GP Set of Tongs Heavy Leather Apron Heavy Leather Gloves Several large containers filled with clay(for next session) Fixing Dungeoneering will be like fixing Hegemony...Either you: Archi, kill people when they do something stupid and aren't terrible interested in balancing. Ross, knock people out when they persist in stupidness, and have a vast array of balancing techniques. Retech, allow stupidness, and then punish people who are more powerful than other people.

Depends, the MI isn't feeling 100% :thumbdown:

*Irony Circuits Online* Ramming Speed! Its not really gamebreaking to threaten someone... I think, gamebreaking wise, the only thing that qualifies would be killing a total regen character without a context. I mean, it is fair enough being a tyrannical Captain/Assistant Captain who freezes insubordinate officers and uses them as a hood ornament...But going to the shuttle bay and shooting a new character through the head because of who controls them...

Merits: Anyone who was here for the parts bay, 300 merits Anyone here for the corridor, 200 merits Anyone for the zombie onslaught, 50 merits Exploration log: [hide] [/hide] Awards:(These are for the lulz, each action mentioned is worth 10 merits, if you want you name removed, feel free to say.) [hide] Nero, Worst Counter Attack: 06[00:48] I grab its hands and do the waltz Nero, Worst Attack: [00:34] Nero tosses the Grenade bundle, which flies into the Ion Cannon Barrage, exploding. The Drones are thrown back by the Ion Cannon Blast, while the Crew of the Unity are thrown back as well. Only Chi and Dmitri remain awake Theros, Best Attack: [01:00] Theros kicks the zombie in the head by kicking it between the legs and ripping it in half Faust, Pack Horse: [21:55] Erm, two Blitz arrays, 3 pin lapel shields, 3 bubble shields, 4 ammo canisters, grav sword, two phasers. Faust, Danger To Himself And Others: [00:49] Faust fires into the smoke, hitting Nero, Dmitri, Jeremiah and Echo Chi, Oblivous To The Dangers: [23:54] Chi, you feel a warm feeling in your chest, you look down and see a blade coming up...You die a second later. Earth, MUST REVERSE POLARITY! [00:47] Earth reverses the polarity of the hammer, it breaks [/hide]

Ico, sure, Generic Agent X, sent by Britain to assist with the mission. Highly trained, but no wiser as to the content of the mission Sorry to hear Earth, I am sure the session will last a while so try to join if you can =) /join #space19 tavern Log: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/12603519/Space/Logs/%23space19.Tip.It.log

Ok peoples. A specially special session has been planned tonight/until it finishes. Details of which have been given to Jeremiah. It will also be assumed that everyone is on the Unity/tagged along in some other way. Since this will be a special, hands on mission, research will be suspended for the duration, along with simulations and such(exceptions being if the mission is not running for some reason(Ie you and I are the only people on), and outside of session time(PM me or post on here)) This mission started out as an assault on a Russian Escort, but now is something else (Explaination for the continuity error from last time). Session is planned for 8 PM tonight, GMT...If anyone has any questions feel free to PM me or post them.

*Bombs NIX* No more internet for you!

Hehe, technically .2 Stupidity shouldn't count =P But yes, I have been remiss in my duties, to arms!

@ Nex's Signature: Its 51-49 in favour of tails, if you start with tails :thumbsup: