RAHK

Although your estimates are quite close to reality, if you make the larders/mam while the butler go unnote the oaks for you, you are utilizing the trip time to make larders, ie the larder time will not be part of equation: If you're efficient enough /w demon butler, you can theoretically make: 25 round trip/10min * 3 larder/trip = 75 larders every 10 minute More likely to be only 50-70% efficiency, I'll test it with demon butler some other time. RE to above post, heading off to class. One note, the above test is done with Butler, not Demon Butler, and noted oak logs, not oak planks. Will return to finish the debate I was using those numbers simply to show the math that I was referring to. I doubt that those numbers are close to the actual ones, and if they are that was purely luck on my part, lol. I will probably be off by the time you get back from class so I won't be able to reply until later. :-#

Dang, fast! 35 is what I mentioned that I expected as the max so that is pretty quick. Since the demon returns before you finish your larders I doubt the speed would be more than 1 or 2 more. Now you just have to test the armor stands (or oak chairs that require 2 oak planks if you don't have cw armor or 68+ smithing) and see what you get compared to me. You started without unnoted planks or logs correct? If so, make sure you do the same with the armor stands. Since you are that much faster than me (I'm rusty, lol, give me a break) on larders you should be relatively that much faster on armor stands. Without the practice you will probably fall a little short of the max but that is to be expected.

Verac then Dharok (sold) then Ahrim then Kharil (sold and rebought) and finally Guthan. I won't own torag unless I decide to pk with it or something and I won't buy Dharok's (for the fourth time :oops: ) unless something changes dramatically, lol.

Why is there a difference in speed between larders and mma for you? The animation of constructing and removing a larder or a mma should be exactly the same, so wouldn't it be 60 mma comparing to 60 larders? Perhaps you are assuming for the extra number of trips the servant have to make: 60 mma * 2 oak/mma / 16 oak/cook = 7.5 trips/cook 60 larders * 8 oak/mma / 16 oak/cook = 30 trips/cook assuming that the servant takes 10sec per trip, that means the servant will take this much more time for larder: cook (30-7.5) = 22.5 trips * 10 sec/trip / 60sec/min = 3.5min 60 larder/ 13.5min = 44 larder / 10min Which is around the amount of larders I make 10 min. Perhaps you're more used to making mam than making larders? If you are using the same method as me (noted oak logs > unnoted logs > planks > repeat) I can assure you that you would be hard pressed to make 44 larders in 10 minutes even with a demon butler. That would be well over 120k xp an hour. Try it because I just don't think it is possible. I know that 25 is hardly the max because I haven't raised con in ages but I doubt more than 30-35 is possible under the very best circumstances. Same thing goes for mas though, of course. You have forgotten a very critical point. If you take what you said "Why is there a difference in speed between larders and mma for you? The animation of constructing and removing a larder or a mma should be exactly the same, so wouldn't it be 60 mma comparing to 60 larders?" you will realize that you are only counting the time to construct an item. This would assume that you had an unlimited supply of oak planks on hand. The oak larders require many more butler trips due to the fact that their construction is done in a fourth of the time; i.e. 4 times the trips and 4 times the waiting. :wink: In other words, lets say that it takes 2 seconds to make either a larder or mas, 10 seconds PER trip, and 2 seconds per trip initiation (all of the clicking to get the butler to unnote and/or plank). Starting from noted oaks, gp, hammer, saw, and an otherwise empty inventory, both paths require 2 seconds for trip chat, 10 seconds for unnoting, 2 seconds for trip chat, and 10 seconds for planking. Thats 24 seconds so far each. MAS - 20 seconds to make 10 mas and 24 seconds for another round trip. 10 round trips = 440 seconds Larder - 4 seconds to make 2 larders, 24 seconds round trip 10 round trips = 280 seconds 16 round trips = 448 seconds Using these times (which aren't accurate but serve their purpose for example) it requires 60% more trips to make an equal amount of larders as mas. That means that you will make 60% more larders than mas using these times. The way I measured it was: I had 1kish noted oak logs, 500kish gp, hammer, saw, and an otherwise empty inventory for both tests. I started the time for both when I used a noted log on the butler. I stopped the time when I finished whichever one I was currently making. I did not finish my inventory on purpose for either but I think both happened to land on the last plank. At that point I counted the gained xp and divided by the xp per item. In other words, I actually tested it instead of used math like the rest of what I posted. Try it yourself, there is no way to get the same number of larders as mas's in 10 minutes without constantly flowing oak planks into your inventory ceaselessly. No butler can cover that difference.

One of you disgusting 99 smithers. :P :lol: You make me cry myself to sleep. 88 smithing is my next immediate goal because of this. Funny thing is that this all started from a single question, lol.

I don't care if what I am buying is worth half what I pay as long as it is the best. I can't use the money on anything else so it doesn't matter. From my understanding this is a one time deal unless I go for a masters or something (which I can't afford to do now). I don't mean that I want a laptop that will be competitive 4 years from now (I know that is impossible); what I want is a laptop that is likely to be sufficient to run your average program then. Four years ago my laptop was substandard and now it is a fancy paperweight compared to today's laptops. I just want to start higher than I start then, if you get my meaning. Newegg sounds great and all but I don't really have enough computer spec knowledge to utilize it properly. I can get that more is usually better, lol, but it is all gibberish to me. I am one of those people who don't like learning a part of something. I prefer learning everything in as short a time as possible. I am starting a degree in Computer Sciences so I will learn all that I need starting in 2 weeks, lol. Until then I would like to rely on the advice of the computerphiles of this community. Haven't been steered wrong yet. :D $50,000 not $5,000. :P I doubt you would go to Iraq, jump out of planes, and run 40+ miles a week for 4 years to get it. :wink: That is all a story for another day, though. Ah, good point. I want something that could do 3 basic things. 1. Run nearly all types of "average" programs. 2. I want it to laugh at anything game/graphic related. I want to forget what lag is. :lol: 3. I want it to be able to perform anything that you think I would need to get a 4 year Computer Science degree. My first class is C+ or something. Supposedly I need no knowledge beforehand... which is a very, very good thing, lol. Those looked pretty fancy especially with the paintjobs. I don't really know how good they are, though. Since I don't know the relative importance of each spec I have been baseing my opinions off the most negative/positive view that has been posted. Taken with a grain of salt it seems a relatively decent indicator. Thanks so far people. :D

I think the "rule" is that if you can equip it, you can get it back. I haven't checked out everything but that is what it looks like to me. So, no, once you remove the monster head/stuff fish it is gone. Have fun saving some cash, btw. :)

Might as well explain, lol. I am using the VA's VocRehab program to take courses for a 4 year degree. The problem is, I paid $1200 and 4 years of my life earning the GI Bill. Since I have no real use for it anymore I figured that I would use it to get a laptop for school if I can. Up to $50 grand can buy a lot of laptop but only if I can find it, lol. The Dell (YUCK) that I saw sounded better from the reviews but I don't know about the specs: http://reviews.cnet.com/Dell_XPS_M1710_ ... ml?tag=sub Aside from the fact that its a Dell, this quote worries me "the best gaming performance you'll get from a laptop with a single graphics card. " Does this mean that THIS laptop is limited to one, that all laptops are limited to one, or that 2 or more is possible but very difficult? :? I have a weekish to decide I believe. :)

To make a long story short, I have access to a lot of money to spend on a laptop. A LOT of money. I have looked around and the "best" system I could find was a Dell and... that ain't happening. Other than it being anything other than a Dell (or a Apple), there are no real restrictions. I would appreciate the best laptop in the $1-$5000 range and the best laptop in the $5000-$50000 range. I need this thing to do everything and I need it to still be more than a paperweight in 4 years. My biggest problem is that I know SQUAT about computers. RAM, overclocking, tetrabytes, etc. are just words that I have heard and have the vaguest grasp of their meanings, if that. So, that just leaves me with the question: If you had $50,000 USD that you could ONLY spend on a laptop, which incredibly fast, over-powered, disgustingly sweet, best of the best, assuredly over-priced, hunk of top-of-the-line junk would you buy? P.S. A link would be nice. Thanks in advance. :D

... double that. :oops: I was so tired that the numbers were mixing together, lol. It was pretty sad when I had to use a calulator to figure out what 60 plus 60 was... :-w :oops: EDIT: Lol, I just got a con AND smithing level off one mmas.

Depending on what you can afford to use (low level cw armor up to 99 smithing) depends on how effective this is time-wise. Personally, (obviously your view is different and that is 100% okay, lol :) ) I prefer the extra xp over the slight speed loss. I would recommend trying it for 10 minutes to an hour on each before you decide for sure (it looked like you only tried it once from your screeny is the only reason I mention it). It sounds that you have given it a try and found it lacking which is just fine. Giving it a try is the victory here, lol. If you have done (or can do) Throne of Misc. and Royal Trouble, I would suggest using it for coal and mining your own iron northeast of Yanille. Better xp and faster than mining the coal as well. Just a quick tip. :) The times have been roughly worked out so it is up to personal preference as stated. Legend's capes require teak planks, don't give smithing xp, and are FAR more expensive than oak anything. Oak larders would be both cheaper and faster from my tests. I would appreciate if you could post your times and xp rates, though. No such thing as too much testing. : Other than the edit :shame: I am glad to hear that. :D One person saving some cash from this makes all of that math, research, and testing totally worth it. Bah, don't be ashamed, lol. You have helped many people with your posts so I am glad to return the favor. :P I am glad that people are giving this a try. It won't be better for everybody but testing it out for yourself won't hurt you and you can find out which is superior for you.

No need to confirm anything since this is from the kb, tip.it, and my own personal experience. It would be nice to see a few 10 minute figures, though. :D I raised smithing strictly for total but now I have a goal; sounds like you might be in that same stage.

90% of construction's items/rooms are essentially useless... Oak dining tables would likely be slower xp than mmas... I would say that saving millions is worth spending the 25-50k or whatever it costs for a skill hall...?

I did nearly all of the math for all 7 options (3 each of cwas/mas and 1 larder) so what are you saying? That the people who have those items or 99 smithing shouldn't be allowed a tip, lol? Obviously the group isn't large but they deserve the knowledge as well. I am not about to break down every possible option for making gp, lol. All you have to do is find which option you can/want to do and see if you can make more gp and smithing xp in the same time elsewhere. If you can't, use this. If you can, use oak larders. I am NOT saying this is good for everybody! Just do the math and see if it is good for you. This reminds me that I forgot to add the hierarchy. Basically, you only need to choose ONE type of armor stand. There is no point in getting cwas AND mas. If your smithing is terrible then focus on cwas. If your smithing is at least 60ish then raise it and focus on mas. In order from most expensive (still a nice discount off larders) to least expensive (aka best xp per gp): Castle Wars Red(1) Armor Stand - 135xp - +15 con xp Castle Wars White(2) Armor Stand - 150xp - +30 con xp Castle Wars Gold(3) Armor Stand - 165xp - +45 con xp Mithril Metal Armor Stand - 135xp - +15 con xp - +25 smith xp Adamant Metal Armor Stand - 150xp - +30 con xp - +25 smith xp Runite Metal Armor Stand - 165xp - +45 con xp - +25 smith xp Note: The bolded are 100% accurate but the middle ones can vary based on how you value smithing xp. So, if you have a nice smithing level try to use your best mas. If you don't just go win 18 cw games and save yourself a little gp. The time invested in cw is miniscule once you realize it's long term benefits. MAS > CWAS O:)

Dang, you replied before I could finish editting. Your answer is above. A few more things and I almost get to sleep, yay! \ Smithing and CW tickets are either something you have or you don't, lol. If you have basically zero of each, you can take the time to bs 18 winning rounds of CW if you like or skip it all together, your choice. And lol at distractions.

The quote replies are out of order, but you get the idea, lol. I could do all the math if I wanted to right now, but I'm too lazy. Someone do it for me Got ya covered. :-w I did the tests to compare the time spent and it is hardly shabby. Not for everyone, but ideal for some. I am under the impression that I am one of those few people that had to go play another 10 cw games to get the 18 tickets needed for the lowest armor. The lowest form is 100% worth the work, the second form is debatable (not worth it to me but it depends on your current ticket stock), and the third form is pointless. I only mentioned those for people with something like 40 smithing, enough tickets or ambition for some form of cw armor, and have a rather small gp reservior. The smithing is far superior but it totally depends on your current level. Most people with a lot of funds, lowish smithing, and few cw tickets will lose a lot of time with this method that could be better spent elsewhere. Like I said, not for everybody. :wink: This is totally opposite of this whole idea. Teak planks cost a LOT more per xp than oak and using an extra item that doesn't give xp defeats the purpose. Yeah that's exactly what I said. Runecrafting nats :) I broke down and did a little testing to satisfy all of the time-concerned folk. Remember that this is not the best method for everybody! Just the most efficient use of your funds. For a less than tiny portion of people this is actually better than oak larders for overall time-usage. After I edit the red below into the first post I am hitting the hay, so don't expect prompt replies. :XD: <---- *Yawns* After a ten minute test I successfully made 60 mmas and 25 larders (in the second test). This is 8100 xp from mmas and 12000 xp from larders in 10 minutes. That means that larders are 32.5% faster xp than cw1as/mmas, 25% faster than cw2as/amas, and 17.5% faster than cw3as/rmas. If you consider the free smithing xp into the equation (TOTALLY your choice, I do since their gp costs per xp are relatively close) that changes it to 20% for mmas, 12.5% for amas, and 5% slower than larders. That is all self-explanatory and partially-optional. The fun part is when you factor in YOUR SAVINGS! If we use the percentages for speed and combine them with the cost savings it *should* result in the overall efficiency (if not do the math properly because I am bushed :-$ ). The question that you need to ask yourself is whether you can make the cash difference back using your preferred method (nat crafting anyone?) and (provided you are doing mas's not cwas's) the smithing xp in the time saved. Can you make 12.5k in 19.5 minutes (cw1as)? Probably. Make 12.5k gp and smith 60 iron bars individually (into knives and sell for 40 ea to equal free xp) in 12 minutes? Probably but each step gets harder. :wink: Can you make 25k in 15 minutes (cw2as)? Make 25k and smith 60 iron bars individually in 7.5 minutes (amas)? Here is the fun part. Can you make 37.5k in 10.5 minutes (cw3as)? How about making 37.5k AND smith 60 iron bars individually all in 3 minutes? That works out to making 750k an hour AND smithing 360 iron bars... think you can do that? If you figure that it takes only 3 seconds to smith a bar and return from the bank for each of those bars that leaves you with 42 minutes to make that 750k. Or you can split them and make 1.071mil in one hour and smith 1.2k iron bars in the next. While this is obtainable for those with 91 rc or mad merchanting/staking/pking skills it would seem far out of reach for your average person. The last example is using the best form which most people won't be able to do, obviously, but the idea holds true down the line. Your job is to find out how you value smith xp, where you are on the cwas and/or the mas scale, and whether you can cover the gp/xp gap with other cash making methods (and, for mas, the smithing gap) in the same or less time. Hardly the best choice for everybody but an option for all and nearly a requirement for some. Disclaimer: I am tired so my math/logic might be off. Please correct it! Unless I sign something with "-RAHK-" I am NOT a mod at that moment!!! Treat me like you did before and feel free to point out my flaws. I don't want people to mince words and am VERY glad that many have not (including a few close friends :P ). The mod position should be ignored unless I am modding, lol. Many of these numbers can be off due to poor math, inept logic, unintentional bias, and, of course, mistakes in timing and construction speed.

I guess that I didn't make the point of this clear enough... This isn't for speed leveling. This is for CHEAP leveling. This is for those who don't know the little tricks on free con/smith xp. What is the biggest complaint about con? The speed? Heck no, look how "long" it took to get to 99. The problem is the EXPENSE. This is just a way for people to get the best bang for their oak dollar. I am not saying that this is the best way for EVERYBODY, I am saying that this is the most cost-effective way to use your oak. ^ That and it is NOT THAT SLOW!!! Please try it, post your average times, and THEN point out flaws, lol. This is far from perfect but speaking from a lack of personal experience is not the best way to make it better. :wink:

Yes, you get any armor that you use back. In the summary I said that you can make armor stands to save millions. I can assure you that it isn't as slow as you think. Try it before you judge it. :wink:

The biggest factor that is complained about for construction is cost, not time. This allows comparable speed at massive savings in gp. Not to mention that you can get up to 22mil gp worth of free smithing xp (using those values of course). I will test the times out later though because that is a great idea. :D EDIT: Which do you think would be more useful: noted logs stats or noted planks stats?

All that you need to know to use this is in the summary but I will gladly explain any parts that are confusing. :) I haven't slept tonight so this probably makes more sense in my sleep-deprived gourd than it does typed out, lol.

And just think, you will be hitting 85 smithing just about when you hit 99 con, lol. This is true. The loss of speed isn't as bad as you would think, though. If you use the human butler for both paths you end up only slightly slower if you get your noted oaks planked. If you level with solely planks then you can afford the speed of larders anyway, lol. Mod powers to delete double-posts ftw, lol. :oops:

Yes, 99 con will not be free, lol. The point is that there is a simple way to save millions AND get loads of free smithing xp. :wink: P.S. I don't see Jagex making con free. Perhaps cheaper, but I doubt free.

Meet one of the mIRC folk! My only hope is that it isn't nerfed if it does become popular. :ohnoes:

No patience? Can't read more than 2 or 3 lines of text in one sitting? Then don't ever click on a topic written by me! Or just skip down to the summary, lazy bones. :P Here is the process that I am describing before I get into why it is a better option for many: In build mode, in your skill hall, you can make level 28 armor stands. There are two types (castle wars armor and smithable armor) and 3 levels of armor stands (red, white, and gold cw armor and mith, addy, and rune armor). Each level is the same con xp (15 for level 1, 30 for level 2, and 45 for level 3) and all metal armor gives 25 smithing xp. All stands take 2 oak planks. Making an armor stand removes 2 oak planks and 3 pieces of armor from your inventory (full helm, skirt, plate for metal and helm, plate, and legs for cw). Breaking an armor stand returns the armor to your inventory for repeated use. Each make and break gives 120 xp for the 2 oak planks, 15 (lvl 1), 30 (lvl 2), or 45 (lvl 3) con xp for the armor, and 25 smithing xp if you use metal armor stands. We all know that anything you use to raise your con level (planks, molten glass, etc.) give a set amount of xp per item used and it is not dependent on the level of the item that you make. After some chatting on mIRC (<---click me and chat!) I think I might have the most efficient way to level con. The standard cheap/fast way to raise con is making oak larders with (obviously) oak planks (60xp per plank). If you look at the required items for most of the things that you can make you will see that almost every item is consumed by making it. In other words, if you make an oak larder you use 8 oak plank which you do NOT get back upon demolition. There are, however, several items which you can use that you are able to recover afterwards. Most of these construction items either require expensive ingredients (maple/teak planks, molten glass, etc.) and/or give poor xp. The xp that you DO recieve is completely FREE provided that you are able to use those items (i.e. mounting a Legend's cape is impossible without completing the quest). There are two exceptions that provide free xp AND do not require expensive ingredients. The easiest to obtain is the castle wars armor stand and the harder one is the metal armor stand. Getting the lowest form of the castle wars armor stand (cwas from now on :wink: ) only requires that you play a few games of castle wars while the lowest form of the metal armor stand (mas) requires 68 smithing. Making these stands gives 5-15 COMPLETLY FREE con xp PER PIECE USED! There are three levels of each; cw1, cw2, cw3 and mithril, adamant, and rune which give a total of 15, 30, and 45 xp respectively. This means that you can get from 12.5% to 37.5% of your normal construction xp 100% FREE. To utilize the bare minimum you need a con level of 28 and 18 cw tickets OR 68 smithing. Now comes a little math. Total xp for level 99 con from 28 = 13,023,607 xp Number of cw1as(level 1 castle wars armor stand)/mmas(mithril metal armor stand) needed to obtain that much xp = 13,023,607 / 135 = 96,472 cw1as/mmas The cost for that many stands (valuing oak planks at 500gp each) = 96,472 x 2 (number of oak planks) x 500gp = 96,472,000 gp Normal cost to reach 99 con from 28 = 108,530,058 Your savings so far = 12,058,058 For level 2 (cw2as/amas) you will need 86,824 total cw2as/amas's at a total cost of 86,824,000 gp for a savings of 21,706,058. For the grand daddy of con thriftyness you will need 78,931 total cw3as/rmas's at a total cost of 78,931,000 gp for a savings of 29,599,058! Yeah, you read that right. You can save nearly 30mil by using the third level armor stand! I will show a few more figures before pointing out how you can save even more gp. With the standard con method you are paying 500gp per oak plank which gives 60xp. That costs you 8.33 gp PER con point. Cw1as/mmas lowers that to 7.4 gp per con point, cw2as/amas lowers that to 6.66 gp per con point and cw3as/rmas lowers that to 6.06 gp per con point of xp. Compare that to another skill such as smithing: steel plates. A steel plate costs 1,750 (550 gp per bar, 5 bars, and plate is worth 1k) to make, gives 187.5, and costs you 9.33 gp per point of smithing xp. There are, of course, cheaper ways to level smithing, but this is the standard procedure for leveling. So your savings compared to smithing is 1gp (normal con), 1.93 gp (lvl 1 armor stands), 2.67 gp (lvl 2), and 3.27 gp (lvl 3). This is just intended to give you a rough understanding of the fact that con isn't quite as expensive as you think and will be used later on. Another way that this lowers your costs dramatically is that you can easily get away with using a human butler instead of a demon one. By the time that he returns you will have barely finished if you are extremely fast. You can also factor in the fact that you will be using fewer oak planks which means fewer bank runs or butler tasks. If you figure that you can get only 10 runs out of your butler before payday (probably way more, but I want to use a conservative estimate) that means you can save (mind you, this is a VERY, VERY rough estimate) about 300 paydays which is a total fee savings of up to 1.5mil-3mil. Just another fringe benefit. :wink: Now, here comes the most fantabulous part: smithing! When you make ANY mas you recieve, in addition to the elevated con xp, 25 FREE smithing xp points! In other words, you smith a free iron bar EACH time you make and break (m&B) a mas. Now for a little smithing math. If you use any mas to level to 99 from 28 con, you will accumulate 25 free smithing xp per mas. That means you can acquire 1,973,275 smithing xp from rmas, 2,170,600 smithing xp from amas, and 2,411,800 smithing xp from mmas (you get less smithing xp with the higher mas due to the fact that you need less of them to reach 99 con). You will end up paying 18,410,656 gp using rmas, 20,251,698 gp using amas, and 22,502,094 gp for smithing xp that you could be getting 100% FREE! Crazy, eh? If you decide to value that smithing xp (as I do) as part of the cost for con xp, you will arrive with a couple of nice figures. Take your total cost (1,000 gp for 2 oak planks) divide that by your combined con/smith xp (135) you find that you are paying ONLY 7.4 gp per con/smith point for mmas, 6.66 gp per con/smith point for amas, and a mere 6.06 gp per con/smith point for rmas. Now, let's say (for simplicity's sake) that you were to get that smithing xp by using the normal smithing plan (steel plates) at 9.33gp per point of smithing xp. Using that value (and the values above) you SAVE 6,452,610 gp on rmas, 5,795,502 gp on amas, and 4,654,774 on mmas over steel, for FREE, WHILE RAISING CON! Now I think that is some mighty fine multi-tasking and penny-pinching if I do say so myself. :3> EDIT: After a ten minute test I successfully made 60 mmas and 25 larders (in the second test). This is 8100 xp from mmas and 12000 xp from larders in 10 minutes. That means that larders are 32.5% faster xp than cw1as/mmas, 25% faster than cw2as/amas, and 17.5% faster than cw3as/rmas. If you consider the free smithing xp into the equation (TOTALLY your choice, I do since their gp costs per xp are relatively close) that changes it to 20% for mmas, 12.5% for amas, and 5% slower than larders. That is all self-explanatory and partially-optional. The fun part is when you factor in YOUR SAVINGS! If we use the percentages for speed and combine them with the cost savings it *should* result in the overall efficiency (if not do the math properly because I am bushed :-$ ). The question that you need to ask yourself is whether you can make the cash difference back using your preferred method (nat crafting anyone?) and (provided you are doing mas's not cwas's) the smithing xp in the time saved. Can you make 12.5k in 19.5 minutes (cw1as)? Probably. Make 12.5k gp and smith 60 iron bars individually (into knives and sell for 40 ea to equal free xp) in 12 minutes? Probably but each step gets harder. :wink: Can you make 25k in 15 minutes (cw2as)? Make 25k and smith 60 iron bars individually in 7.5 minutes (amas)? Here is the fun part. Can you make 37.5k in 10.5 minutes (cw3as)? How about making 37.5k AND smith 60 iron bars individually all in 3 minutes? That works out to making 750k an hour AND smithing 360 iron bars... think you can do that? If you figure that it takes only 3 seconds to smith a bar and return from the bank for each of those bars that leaves you with 42 minutes to make that 750k. Or you can split them and make 1.071mil in one hour and smith 1.2k iron bars in the next. While this is obtainable for those with 91 rc or mad merchanting/staking/pking skills it would seem far out of reach for your average person. The last example is using the best form which most people won't be able to do, obviously, but the idea holds true down the line. Your job is to find out how you value smith xp, where you are on the cwas and/or the mas scale, and whether you can cover the gp/xp gap with other cash making methods (and, for mas, the smithing gap) in the same or less time. Hardly the best choice for everybody but an option for all and nearly a requirement for some. EDIT #2: In order from most expensive (still a nice discount off larders) to least expensive (aka best xp per gp): Castle Wars Red(1) Armor Stand - 135xp - +15 con xp Castle Wars White(2) Armor Stand - 150xp - +30 con xp Castle Wars Gold(3) Armor Stand - 165xp - +45 con xp Mithril Metal Armor Stand - 135xp - +15 con xp - +25 smith xp Adamant Metal Armor Stand - 150xp - +30 con xp - +25 smith xp Runite Metal Armor Stand - 165xp - +45 con xp - +25 smith xp Note: The bolded are 100% accurate but the middle ones can vary based on how you value smithing xp. So, if you have a nice smithing level try to use your best mas. If you don't just go win 18 cw games and save yourself a little gp. The time invested in cw is miniscule once you realize it's long term benefits. EDIT #3: After a LOT of math I have a nice set of numbers for you. 10k for demon, 3k for cook = 70% savings Rough paydays for larders 834, rmas/cwas 987 = 5,379,000 gp SAVED 500gp per plank, 300gp per log planked (50 for oak log) = 40% savings 108,530,058 cost in planks for 99, 47,358,600 cost in logs = 61,171,458 gp SAVED 120 xp per 2 planks, Rmas/Cw3as's 165 xp = 37.5% savings 8.33 gp per xp, 3.64 gp per xp = 4.69 gp per xp savings 120 xp, Adding smith 190 xp = 58.3% savings 8.33 gp per xp, 3.16 gp per xp = 5.17 gp per xp savings Total value of free smithing xp possible = 18,410,656 SAVED Totals: 5,379,000 gp saved on workers, 61,171,458 gp saved on planking logs, and 18,410,656 gp in free smithing value. Total value saved = 84,961,114 gp Total cost for 99 con is 2,961,000 gp for workers and 47,358,600 gp for logs and planking costs. Total cost for 99 con with rmas' = 50,319,600 gp Total percent saved = 62.8% Larders are 630 per hour using the most expensive method. Total larders needed is 27,133 so total time is 43 hours. Rmas are 492 per hour using the cheapest method. Total time is 139 hours. 69% difference in speed minus the 62.8% savings leaves 6.2%. Don't forget the time vs. xp/gp rate that I mentioned before (if you can make 1.071 gp an hour and smith 1.2k iron bars into knives and sell them an hour then consider larders). This means that you need to ask yourself the following question: Is it worth 84,961,114 gp to be 6.2% more efficient with larders? :twisted: Disclaimer: I am tired so my math/logic might be off. Please correct it! Unless I sign something with "-RAHK-" I am NOT a mod at that moment!!! Treat me like you did before and feel free to point out my flaws. I don't want people to mince words and am VERY glad that many have not (including a few close friends :P ). The mod position should be ignored unless I am modding, lol. Many of these numbers can be off due to poor math, inept logic, unintentional bias, and, of course, mistakes in timing and construction speed. Summary: Using castle wars armor stands you can save MANY millions of gp on your way to 99 con. Using metal armor stands you can save MANY millions of gp on your way to 99 con AND can get a free 2milish smithing xp FOR FREE!!! Want to know how? Then get reading. O:) EDIT: Just got a con AND smith level off the same mmas, lol.

Thanks. I thought it was 5 but didn't want him to be unprotected for 3 minutes because of my mistake, lol. :oops: So 10 antifire pots would be 2.5 hours. Count your casts per minute and that will be a good guess of how many casts you will be able to get off in that time. Good luck again. :)