n64jive

From my understanding, this new feature profiles accounts, which is something that I have thought about for years. Bot's perform the same actions over, and over again. Even if they are randomized slightly, it shouldn't be that hard to catch someone who cleans herbs for 10 hours straight. I have a feeling what the new system is "rolled out" in specific area's of the game. One of the common methods bots do when fighting NPC's is get the nearest NPC. So if you have a specific area loaded with bots, it should be pretty easy to tell, even from a programming perspective which users are bots and which are not. The most challenging part was probably ensuring there were no false positives. If this system is able to accurately detect bots without false positive, and quickly ban them, I would consider it a win that bots may not be able to recover from. Jagex would no longer have to worry about obfusicating the code, which has performance degradation, and just let their new system catch the bots. The only solution for scripters would be to create scripts that were extremely human like. Ie, I do this random task, then I do this random task, take a 20 minute break, then do this random task, then log off, then come back 3 hours later...etc. This is all entirely possible, but it will take quite a bit more work. I'm anxious to see how this all plays out.

*Sigh*...Why do I bother. This is the part where you assume those involved are "hiding" the money. What is to say that they received their check from "XYZ RS GOLD SITE", deposited into one (or fifty or whatever) bank accounts, and claimed it all when they filed their taxes. Quit making assumptions that they are hiding the money. You have NO reason to believe that, other than your own suspicion, which "... is like your opinion, man"... Seriously, did I miss some post where it was claimed that these people hide the money? I'm pretty sure that was never stated. I make 60k a year after taxes, and after expenses I probably sustain about 20k profit. That money is in many, many different accounts for many, many different reasons. By no means am I hiding it. Having many accounts doesn't give the gov't the go-ahead to assume you are hiding it. Everyone understands that ignorance of the law doesn't exclude you from the law. You'd be pretty think to so. Likewise, where is the law that states that selling virtual property is illegal? This is a pretty new, not so hot topic. Not to say that it isn't up and coming, but as it stands now, there are no laws against the sale of virtual property. With that, Jagex claims that all virtual items belong to them. They are right, as the items are merely data on their servers, however you can claim the ownership of data on another entities servers if you pay for that data. Jagex claims that these items have no value, and thus they are entitled to the ownership, so how do they get away with it? The answer is "service". By claiming you are not paying for the items, but rather for the service, they can also claim the items are valueless. This can of course be challenged, but it never has as it's a pretty strong argument. The same goes for gold selling. Jagex can sue, but as has been pointed out, the offending parties can claim they were merely providing a service. And this is all valid until some judge says otherwise.

I thought this thread was about RWT.

The same experts that said on these forums that Jagex couldn't/wouldn't sue the software makers as it didn't violate those respective laws? The same people who now harp on that RWT can't be proven/sued for, yet it's never been tested?. You can guarantee that can't you.....No I didn't think so. What is your point again?

I think you missed the point of the whole conversation. Everyone knows that you get notice of payment. The point was that people think they're immune from paying tax or they get a slap on a wrist if they refuse to pay because they're a 'kid' of 18-20. Ask your dad what happens if someone ignores payment orders or refuses to pay up whether they're 18 or 80. Of course, you could possibly claim half of that back but as a judge may rule in favour of it being illegal anway there's a good chance that it will all go back to the government or Jagex depending on which court you're in. Your dad should have already told you that as I don't think you get tax breaks for illegal activity. And before anyone harps on about Jagex not suing, the last guy Jagex sued had to release a statement about being a bad boy, promising never to do it again and paying back substantial damages. You are making assumptions that these kids/young adults/whatever would not pay the taxes. Third, the guy you are talking about is Eric and Mark Snellman. They were not sued for RWT but rather for their software, impulse software, which was botting software and violated a shit ton of copyright/DMA laws. Fourth, there has never been a case against the sale of virtual goods as there is currently no laws against selling virtual goods. Finally, even if there was, how could Jagex prove it. An uneven trade in game doesn't constitute the sale of virtual goods. I think you are the one missing the point of the whole conversation.

If you don't pay your taxes, you aren't immediately hauled off to jail. They send out a notice and you are usually forced to pay the backtaxes with penalty. My father has been a CPA for over 30 years. Next, it's quite easy to get quite a bit of that money back. Taxes may be certain, but when you are talking about 66k in taxes, there are many things you can do to probably reclaim at least half of that.

Some things you might want to consider......... As soon as anyone hits 18 they're tried in court as an adult. Referring to an 18 or 20 year old as a kid doesn't wash in court. The law judges you the same as if you were a 40 year old. Tax evasion in the UK and the US is one of the most 'jailable' offences. You're more likely to be jailed for tax evasion than murder. Ask Al Capone...well....if he was still alive. A few hundred thousand is very taxable. People have been hounded by the taxation systems in many countries for less. For example, not paying your monthly rates (poll tax) in the UK you are normally jailed for around a month to 6 weeks alone for a sum that can be as measly as £50 ($75). Govenments just won't tolerate it. Just to add to this, in most Western jurisdictions, anyone under 18 who commits an "adult" crime can be tried as an adult if the Courts deem that said individual had the capacity to determine what they were doing was wrong. Additionally, the tax rate on $200K "earned" in one year is huge. It is extremely unlikely that any taxing authority is simply going to look the other way when someone is making that kind of money and not paying taxes on it. Not to mention that spreading such cash around to various accounts only makes it look even more specious. Under today's "Proceeds of Crime" and "Anti-Terror" legislation, the government watches large sums of money (i.e. anything over $5,000.00) whenever it is being transferred around, no matter who's name it may happen to be in. Just sayin' ... If the person didn't claim the income on their tax return in 2013, they would be required to pay back taxes and a penalty when they got caught. The only reason they would be jailed would be if they failed to pay the taxes. Long story short, these kids/young adults lives will not be ruined...

That actually seems like a pretty reasonable figure. Gold prices seem to be around $0.45/million. This means that $3,000 is roughly 6.666 billion. If you can make 100m/hour from staking (especially with DDoSing), that would equate to about 66 hours a week, which is easily obtainable. I would assume that they probably play much less and make much more an hour if those are the figures they make. 200m/hour would get them down to 33 hours a week, which is probably on the low end. Mod Mark and MMG have stated that RWTer's and bots are scum of the game...but the fact is they created a game that is sooooooo time consuming and based around end game content that and black market industry has risen that literally produces incomes that top entry level engineers. Instead of going to college for 5 years to become a computer engineer, I could have instead focused on the simple task of bot farming and gold selling. It really puts things into perspective. Runescape is a game, but creative minds turned it into a business. Can't really fault them all that much for that. Mainly because the burden of proof falls on Jagex. The legality of the sale of virtual property currently has no case-laws. It's a very small topic on the national scale and honestly, most court systems would probably throw it out because of this. You could easily afford a lawyer that would likely get the case dismissed in short notice, especially making 200k/year. I think if Jagex had any sort of case, you would have heard about something by now.

I would say that those who haven't been banned are likely waiting for the bot nuke. The bot nuke should drive up RWT prices, however the CE may also affect those prices. It's a gamble. As for IRS gains and money launder, etc....That can all be handled with an offshore bank account. They are really not hard to get. The government isn't going to be too concerned either over a couple hundred grand being "laundered". In the event one of the actions does trigger an audit, it is very unlikely it would trigger anything more then back-taxes. They could lie and say they obtained the funds playing poker online. Online gambling is illegal, but the government doesn't seize the money nor charge fines(except for taxes and tax penalties) on payouts. They would simply believe you, say you owe for the taxes on those earnings, and probably an additional 10% as penalties. This is all if they got caught. I would put it at 50/50.

I think it is a cool idea. It would be cool if they expanded on it. Maybe put up notices around runescape when high level players get banned and when there trial is. I'm more interested to see how well their back-end detection works.

As a developer, I thought this looked pretty generic. I went and look on some of my own applications, and they also have this message and they don't have file access. I would assume that the warning says this regardless. Probably microsoft's warning...

As a marketing ploy, I would have released it that way in order to get users to purchase spins. It seems that the items will move from common slots to uncommon slots after this weekend, however will still exist on the squeal.

No offense, but who in their right minds would spend million coins to get prices that aren't even worth close to 100K coins? At the bulk price, it's 250k for a spin, not 1m. And it's basically runescape gambling. Obviously the amount is up for debate, but 250k gives rooms for when they offer promotions. Cosmetics. And technically it saves time on almost all skills (at a high cost in gp at those rates) Personally I believe that black market GP sites aren't good for the game, but they cause *less* inflation than the SoF. At least they have to perform game actions. Yes they can perform more game actions than a regular player (due to no sleep etc). They do cause item inflation though, which is also pretty bad. Right. Also the black market GP sites themselves don't cause the inflation; botting is the cause of inflation. A medium to selling RSGP promotes botting, however if Jagex is able to once again solve the botting issue (What did they get to? October to May?) then that would solve the inflation issue in regards to bots. I still think Jagex needs to look at ways of implementing more money sinks into this game. Buying spins for RSGP would solve this.

GP sites cause inflation if the ultimate source of their gp is produced from bots. Shouldn't be too much to create bots that buy from the GE items that alc for a profit on top of any other gp producing work such a WC and Fletching bot group. There's nothing noble or game enhancing about GP sites. I never stated they were nobel or game enhancing. And I agree that bots cause inflation (everyone technically causes inflation). With that said, if someone stock-piled a bunch of spins when they were cheap. I bought 250 spins the other week for $20 and didn't spend any of them as I predicted that Jagex would eventually introduce something like, and I further predict that the SoF will become more generous than this. My 250 spins have an EV of 16m gp, and that only accounts for 1/8th of the spins based on the fragments alone. Probably going to also include about 600k in xp, which has a varied amount of gp value depending on the skill, but let's be conservative and say 20gp/xp. All this include, it looks like this is still less then the black market price, however, this is also worth instant xp versus the time spent performing the task, which can have a gp value associated with it as well. With that said, I still think it would be cool if Jagex introduce buyable spins on the SoF using RSGP. 1 spin = 250k 5 spins = 1m It may help with the inflation problem...

They had a promotion last week selling spins at $0.10/spin. Still only cuts the price to $1.72/Mil, but that also doesn't factor in xp gained, which depending on the skills usually can have a gp amount assigned as well(Think of it as in-store credit)... If Jagex ever reached prices of $0.70 - $1.00, I think it would greatly impact RWT prices. Someone brought up the point on RSOF that he actually preferred black market RWT to this as "at least gold selling sites don't cause inflation"...Makes you wonder would people be more inclined to an update where you are allowed to sell your GP back to Jagex. Ie, you trade your gold for spins.

There are three possible scenarios: 1. You were just a member for August: 350k xp at the end of August 2. You were just a member for September: 350k xp at the end of September 3. You were a member for both August and September: 350k at the end of August and 700k at the end of September for a total of 1050k xp No other possible scenario. LIES 4. You were never a member: You get 0 xp. This reminds me of the trivial solution in linear algebra. But seriously, I don't understand why people don't understand this. It's the buy 2 get one free model at the price of 350k xp/month.

According to RSOF, delivery could take multiple hours. I'm not sure how they handle distribution. However, try logging out and back in (making sure to have space in your inventory)

Wrong. The design is to allow splitting the xp over skills without accidentally putting all of the 350k xp into a skill on accident and gaining levels you may not have wanted. It allows people to choose what they want to get the total xp in. There is no discouragement for putting it all into 1 skill or not. They should have just stuck to mad-may necklace type thing instead.. would be a lot better. Right, but if this wasn't explicitly stated from Jagex, one would think it was a design flaw. There seems to be a lot of outrage over this action by Jagex, which I don't really understand. At the same time, there are people who play this game to 'compete' against other players...which is also something I don't understand.

There are three possible scenarios: 1. You were just a member for August: 350k xp at the end of August 2. You were just a member for September: 350k xp at the end of September 3. You were a member for both August and September: 350k at the end of August and 700k at the end of September for a total of 1050k xp No other possible scenario.

Looks like Jagex is giving out the 350k via promisary note. Basically you bank 350k and you can divy out the exp in predetermined increments. EDIT: News post

I guess since you bumped it, I might as well post...

Even if Jagex plays the house, gambling in runescape will only increase bots and rwt. The house edge on dicing games was close to 20%, not including the fact that the host could scam. The edge on the rest of the games also fall within that realm. Even if Jagex introduced a game with a similiar edge where they served as host, it will only create one more facet of gambling within the game. What drives RWT? The need for GP from the players. What kinds of players need the most gp? Stakers and gamblers. Everything else in runescape can be achieved with a couple hundred million...

I'm going to guess that their incentive wouldn't have been enough to stop this dupe.

If you wanted it to keep track automatically, you would need to alter the client or have some intensive screen scraping. It would be cool if Jagex released an API for interacting with their client, however, I think many of the botters likely took it into their own hands in order to do so themselves.