n64jive

That's a nice join date. The tip.it boards were pretty new around this time, as the old board, scapeboard, was taken down...

Several hundred thousand on the same day? When you drop membership, you will still be on the highscores until Jagex decides to purge them.

These aren't bot bans but rather people dropping membership...

This made me laugh. "I call BS"..."I call BS"..."Oh...Well in that case, free st00f plx?" ;). On another note, could someone who feels that these players have poor morals please explain why they feel that way? Sorry, but given the situation, I would easily do the same thing. If someone came up to me and told me they would give me 100,000 for my runescape account, I'd accept it in a heartbeat. Hell, I'd do it for $10,000.

Not that it really matters, but if you have $5,000,000 and you are only getting a return of 2%, then you're a pretty poor investor. Hell, inflation averages 2-5%, with 2 being the low end. Living off the interest is never really a good idea. For instance, you can get 2% on 5 million, and just live off that, making 100k per year, or you could get 6% (which is somewhat conservative) on 4 million, and use the other 1 million to live off of for the next 10 years. Scenario A: You would have 5 million at the end of 10 years. Scenario B: You would have over 7.1 million at the end of 10 years. Keep in mind, over the last 100 years, the average 10 year return is about 12%, which would leave you with 12.4m. The lowest ever 10 year span ever recorded in the last 100 years was from 2000-2009, with an return of 1%. Although that is fairly recent, it should be noted that the return from 2002-2011 was 19%. The market happened to be at a peak in 2000 and at a low in 2009. Also it should be noted, to someone who plays runescape, it should be pretty easy to live off 100k a year, unless you live in the higher cost of living portions of the US.

Well, I think that is what they do all day. Try to find ways to break the game. For better or worse. If that is the case, Jagex should hire them over their current QA department. Obviously they enjoy it and they are good at it. Although making 500k gp/15 seconds is 2m/minute or 120m/hour, which is about $40/hr. Hard to pay that as salary for someone in QA.

I feel like you are way overthinking this. Odds are, the spambots just look for usernames around and spam them. I'm sure they don't have any ban prevantive measures.... It's a nice thought, however....

1. Banning bots is inefficient. Even if they paid people to ban them, it wouldn't make much of a dent, and it's not cost effective. 2. Comparing excel macro's to the bots of today is like comparing a hatchet to a chainsaw. These bots interface directly with the client. 3. Programmers are not sought after for their "hacker-like" abilities, but rather their ability to...program. I was hired as software/hardware engineer because A) I received good grades in college from a prestigious university with a bachelors in computer engineering...B) I am a hard worker, I show up to work on time, and I get shit done in a pretty efficient/timely manner...C) See other skills that land you a job (organizational skills, communication skills, ability to work on a team...etc.) Jagex's bot nuke was fixed by Jacmob within a month, and I have heard that another botting site has recently fixed it and is up and running. I'm sure "optimus" is real and will once again break the bots for who knows how long, but the fact is, the only way(that has been effective so far) to break the bots is to make creative changes to the client that require a complete overhaul of the bot interfaces. The bigger fact of the matter is that runescape is a game...a game aimed at 13-20 year olds...and in that genre, you will have people finding ways to cheat. I'm not saying that Jagex should lie down and take it, but if you have a strong hatred for bots, the sooner you understand that their existence is inevitable, the better off you'll be.

Here is an idea: Hire chinese gold farmer to sit around and ban gold farmers...The problem will eventually get rid of itself. (Kids, that's not how big business works)...

I don't care if Jagex introduces new methods of training that speed up and "devalue" achievements - more power to the players. What I - and various others - am mad about, is that this is a complete 180 turn from their initial stance on buying your way through a game. "This is also the reason we don't sell RuneScape items for cash on our own website. Even though we could make extra money in this way. We don't think it's fair or even fun if players can just buy their way to the top!" I don't care if people buy their way to the top, and I certainly don't get an air of superiority by having higher levels (I can personally say I have benefited MUCH from sped up training methods), but what I can't stand is that Jagex would just toss out one of their oldest rules just because. Sure there's money to be made on the SoF. There's also money to be made by creating good and honest new content, as you said yourself, or non-interfering micro-transactions that are purely cosmetic. Deny it if you like, you are bothered that people can buy their way to the top. Jagex can introduce new game content, and allow for microtransactions. And the market for cosmetic item is pretty small. Sure, Jagex sold out on their principles of old. But they are a business, and they are trying to stay afloat. I understand that, and I don't fault them for it.

???!!!! If playing the game is such a torturous experience, why bother? Go out and do something useful (and more rewarding!) for society! this comment bothered me so i'm going reply to it. i don't think it was a nice thing to say. you lashed out at that person simply because they shared a view which threatened your view of rs. i think the only reason why you would feel so affronted by a comment such as the one N64 made is if you are very sensitive to the idea of someone suffering through something which you enjoy, if avoiding that reality about rs is important to your own enjoyment of it. of course there is no reason why someone who identifies as suffering through aspects of rs should stop playing and do something more useful with their time any more than someone who enjoys those same aspects should. The point I'm making was basically covered by your second point. If people who play this game feel like they are suffering through it, or it's a chore, or it's the bane of their existence, then the question is why they'd want to play this game at all. What others think of this game doesn't affect me - if I cared at all, I would have quit over a decade ago. And lastly, N64 has always been the one to talk about improving society and all that stuff if you've read his previous posts on this thread. I'm cool with that - you have your own ways to spend your time, and I have mine. Welcome to Tip.it Forum :rolleyes: My point is the fact that everyone gets all butt hurt saying any new aspects to the game which make the game easier belittle their achievements. Nevermind the fact that Jagex is a business with employees who are feeding their families, if they create game content that attracts new players, yet belittles my achievements, SHAME ON THEM! Maybe a deeper, darker reality is the fact that runescape is a game, and you should be enjoying your time playing it. This doesn't mean you need to enjoy all aspects of the game (I have rarely played a game where I enjoyed every piece of content). SoF really doesn't affect anyone but those who pay for it. I don't understand why you would care if their is a million other characters who are equal or higher level then you. The updates will create a demand for higher level content, and like I said, Jagex needs to respond to this in order to fulfill the needs of their business model, but if you are the type that thinks you are superior to someone because you are higher level (aka, spent more time on the game), and that the new update ruins this for you, then as I said, grow up...it's a game. There is obviously money to be made on SoF. I feel Jagex would be idiots to not introduce content which profits them.

Except that the general average is around ~250k xp for $20, so 99 in any skill would cost over a thousand dollars. Yes, but level 73 is at 1m xp, which unlocks most quest content (most)...If you are going for "99" in a skill, then it's pretty dumb to pay for it, as 1. It's expensive and 2. It kind of removes the point of getting 99. However, if I need a quest requirement, and I hate that skill, I can suffer through leveling it (which is miserable), or I can pay for it, which is likely a better value for my time. The argument that paying for something removes the level playing field is bs, because the playing field is already not level. RS isn't dictated by skill, it's dictated by time spent on it. If someone has less time to spend on it because of other priorities, they should be able to pay for the content. I think it's a smart business model on Jagex's part. How does saturating the amount of high levels ruin the game? More people will have access to more game content, but Jagex will have more money to afford more servers. If they don't respond appropriately to the influx of higher levels, than that is their problem. And to those who say it belittles their achievement, grow up, it's a video game. You want to be acknowledged for an achievement, go out and do something productive for society.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. If person A want's xx RC for any reason, and can get that faster by paying for it, don't hate them for doing it. I find it hilarious that some people will kiss Jagex's feet when it comes to their efforts to stop botting, however blame the individuals who choose to use one of Jagex's services. PS: If I need to spend 700 hours runecrafting, or I can pay $100 (which I earn in 3 hours), I must be an idiot to spend "good money" (as opposed to wasting good time...)...

Even if Jagex's client could scan running processes (which it doesn't), running your JVM in a sandbox would isolate it from the rest of your machine. It would be pretty easy to circumvent.

I feel like "It's not within the spirit of the game" is no longer a valid argument. The more appropriate argument would be "It's not within the spirit of the game AND Jagex can not profit from it"...:See SoF

My optimistic nature wants to tell me that Jagex understands that legitimizing buying GP would be the straw that broke the camel's back. Also a few people mentioned that it would place a value on GP and label RuneScape as gambling and subject to appropriate laws in appropriate countries. I think if Jagex does expand the cash shop (and RuneScape does have a cash shop now, that only sells spins), it will follow the logic of Squeal of Fortune: Untradeable, unalchable, special versions. Like you'll be able to buy a "Requisitioned [item]" (requisitioned is just the title I gave to it). The value of GP is based on it's redeemable value, not the value you pay for it. Many companies perform microtransactions. Until their is a case that establishes them as online gambling, and thus illegal (only in the US), there will likely be nothing done about it.

Sounds like no where near the middle. Why would someone pay $$ for it if it didn't give them any advantage?

Youre young yet. Give it time. I know lots of doctors and lawyers and engineers who have been duped by get rich quick schemes. Heck, take a look at the whole Ponzi scheme run by Bernie Madoff and look at the list of successful and intelligent people he schemed. Its the same thing. Count yourself and your friends lucky for now. Eventually though, hubris has a way of catching up with everyone though. What comes around, goes around. That's because many doctors and lawyers and engineers became those professions to "get rich"...I became an engineer because I like engineering. I enjoy that I can afford many of my hobbies because of it, but it wasn't the sole purpose I did it. I'm not a venture capitalist, and my investments are only in IRA's, my 401k, and I have a small investment into a CD ladder and mutual funds. I am more likely to lose my ass gambling then through a mutual fund, and that is simply because one of my hobbies is poker...

I remember the jacmob forums being spammed with "Wow, can't believe I wasn't banned"...threads. I really think Jagex banned only the obvious offenders, if anyone at all. Next, I've never known anyone to fall for a "get rich quick" scheme...Of course, most of my friends are smart enough to obtain a college degree in a lucrative field of study, thus already making more money than they know what to do with... By the way, it's not really a flaw to take the easier path. I'm a kind person who holds the door for strangers, has pleasent conversations with strangers, etc. But if I'm playing a game, I'm going to play it the way I want to play it, and that includes taking the easiest path.

^agreed...

You act as if most people don't work for real money. The only people who are going to see instant gratification are those who pay for it. Chances are, they had to work to get that money. If they didn't, then they fall into the category you mentioned above, in which case, they are already on easy street. Sorry, but Runescape only consumes time from people, which is great for people who are looking to waste time. I would argue the game helps contribute to a lazy society...

I think it has been Jage'x goal to avoid microtransactions, however just because they aren't selling the gold, doesn't mean other people aren't. I assume the reason gold farmers exist is to sell the gold. Therefore, it's likely safe to say, that some of these "buy gold" sites are legitimate. If Jagex would sanction the sale of gold through their own distribution, I would think more people would take that action then currently do through these shoddy sites. I see an upside and a downside to it. The upside is the obvious that your "work" on runescape might have actual value. The downside is that the wealthy would inherently gain an advantage over those less fortunate in game. I really don't know how many of Jagex's rules actually deter rule breakers. I wouldn't be deterred. My punishment is banishment from the game...which to me, is hardly punishment. They have tried to take a legal stance, which they have apparently won against a certain botting company, but I don't see it holding up in court against the users. If I was a judge, I would laugh at it. Like I said before, I understand Jagex's rules, and why they set them, but to me, they are more hindering then good. I really don't care about my accomplishments in game, as to me, the stats are just a number, and the reason I trained them to the level I did was to access content in game. If I really had the urge to spend money to buy progress in this game, I would, simply because I value my time, and the experience I get from the game doesn't alleviate that value. If I had the time to write scripts for the bots 6 months ago, I probably would have given it a shot. The challenge of automating the game while putting my programming skills to the test seems way more exciting to me then anything else the game has to offer. But I didn't, and I won't. Again, I understand why all of you who enjoy this game dislike bots. But at some point, I think it's important to understand there is more to life than runescape. (If you feel you already know this, then just ignore it...)

They can quit or they can cheat... It's up to jagex to do something about it... A better solution is to create content where less people will be inclined to cheat...

The problem is that not everyone defines cheating the same. Is using Autohotkeys cheating? If using stev's macros to item switch at TDs cheating? What is cheating? Cheating is what jagex defines as cheating. The problem here is, we have different groups of different people who have different views. There is a group who follows all the rules and anything Jagex says, they do. There is a group who is more about doing what makes them happy. If jagex's makes a rule, and they don't agree with it, they won't follow, because they think it is frivolous. Within those groups are subgroups, and so fourth and so on. I don't expect to change any of your views. They are your views, your opinions, and you can have them. But I ask the same from you. You shouldn't expect to change mine. There is a good social aspect of MMO's, which I agree with. Then there is the other, anti-social aspect. There is good and bad in this game. I feel the bad greatly outweighs the good, and I feel like the bot developer community (minus all the immature kids and leachers) had it right. Again, these are all my opinions, I expect some (or most of you) to disagree. This is, after all, a fansite.

Hmm? How do you expect me to fix it? Get rid of all the bots in scape myself? A lot harder than yours (don't bot, play less, or don't care so much about your levels). Being time limited does not make it right to bot. What makes it wrong to bot? The fact that Jagex says so? Jagex made the rules. It's their job to enforce them. In October, they took a giant step in the right direction. We'll see how they do at continuing to enforce this. Once again, I don't bot, I don't play, and I don't really care. I just find it extremely hypocritical for all of you to say that what I am saying is a personal attack against your personal life choices, when you attack other people's life choices. You choose to play runescape. Someone else chooses to create a program to play runescape. Someone else choose just to purchase gold rather then play the game to accumulate it. It's all a life choice, and none of you have the right to say any different.