Sly_Wizard

Don't try to insult my intelligence. Do you really want me to dig up the other two or three threads where you stated that you were glad PK'ing and staking were gone? In fact, I think I will (Even though it's slightly a waste of time).

I'm sorry, but what ever happened to your talk of 'honesty and consideration for the customers of a product' when Jagex all but destroyed staking and PK'ing? If memory serves me correct, your response was something along the lines of "I'm glad it's gone because it wasn't fair how you could get rich quick and/or because it imposed on your gameplay". Where was the outcry then? There was none, other than jeers and gloating at the misery of another group of players. However, now that the shoes on the proverbial 'other foot', you don't seem to like it. Why is that?

Actually, Jagex didn't make an '[wagon]' out of me because, if you'd remember, I was against the idea of the GE from the first day it was implemented for the exact reasons you've already stated (Of course, you called me an idiot and whatnot, but that's neither here nor there). But, hey, it's good that you finally realized this-- Better late than never :mrgreen: *Runs off to the RSOF*

I'm a little late to the party, but hypertext mark-up language lol And, XML, is the way of the future (Though it's waaay more complicated).

There's a Mod named Fabio? Any chances it's THE Fabio? :D

You don't change/remove portions of the game without simulatenously introducing counter-balancing updates unless your aim is to throw things completely out-of-whack. That's common sense. Well, at least I thought it was common sense.

What's a 30K trade limit when you're dealing with items worth 500K+? It's an immaterial amount, and might as well not exist. Regardless of what Jagex says, the only real way to trade is via the grand exchange, and even that is highly restricted. Oh well... And gf essence running companies lol (Especially on f2p).

Precisely what I was thinking. I've got a sneaky suspicion that the 1 vs. 1 combat zone Jagex promised up will end up the way of P.O.H's-- Six years in the making.

*Directs you towards one his posts located at the bottom of page one* Already anticipated this argument and responded to it 8-)

It's an unecessary risk that few, if any, people would take. Since you didn't answer my question the first time I asked it, I'll ask it yet again. If you were a RWT'er, which would you rather do? Trade in, say, Varrock or conduct a PK-trade in the wilderness? I know what *I* would choose and I am fairly sure I know which one you would choose, as well. No, you wouldn't drive them to less-efficient forms of money-making. You'd drive them to a game with more efficient means of money making. You see, fishing, mining and woodcutting (As well as flax picking, although not technically a skill) were the main choices because they required the least amount of monetary investment (All you need is a cheap bronze axe/pickaxe or a net) and the least amount effort (Click once, wait for inventory to fill up, run to bank, run back to tree and repeat) in comparison to the profit to be had making them. All other skills require some type of intermediate good, which is then processed into the final good. And, even then, the profits aren't that good unless you happen to collect every ingredient/material yourself. Of course, if you collected your own goods, you wouldn't be very time efficient. Since we know that these weren't bots but, as Jagex decided to label them, 'Chinese sweatshop workers', everything. If you were a 'sweatshop owner' why would you waste your time on a game in which the real life profits are lower than the profits to be had elsewhere? You wouldn't. Didn't we already go over this? Non-combat skills are useful for one thing and one thing only-- Arbitrary quest requirements.

It's an unecessary risk that few, if any, people would take. Since you didn't answer my question the first time I asked it, I'll ask it yet again. If you were a RWT'er, which would you rather do? Trade in, say, Varrock or conduct a PK-trade in the wilderness? I know what *I* would choose and I am fairly sure I know which one you would choose, as well. No, you wouldn't drive them to less-efficient forms of money-making. You'd drive them to a game with more efficient means of money making. You see, fishing, mining and woodcutting (As well as flax picking, although not technically a skill) were the main choices because they required the least amount of monetary investment (All you need is a cheap bronze axe/pickaxe or a net) and the least amount effort (Click once, wait for inventory to fill up, run to bank, run back to tree and repeat) in comparison to the profit to be had making them. All other skills require some type of intermediate good, which is then processed into the final good. And, even then, the profits aren't that good unless you happen to collect every ingredient/material yourself. Since we know that these weren't bots but, as Jagex decided to label them, 'Chinese sweatshop workers', everything. If you were a 'sweatshop owner' why would you waste your time on a game in which the real life profits are lower than the profits to be had elsewhere? You wouldn't. Didn't we already go over this? Non-combat skills are useful for one thing and one thing only-- Arbitrary quest requirements.

Who cares if you quit? The game would be auto'er free and that is the ultimate goal :) No, they wouldn't have. There's a reason why auto'ers engaged in the activities they did whilst ignoring the rest-- Because other skills are simply too labor/time intensive to be able to turn any kind of real life profit profit in doing them. I mean, since you mentioned it, what other skills were auto'ers going to turn to? Crafting? Smithing? Fletching? Hunter? Slayer? I really want to know. There is no 'logic' in what they did. True 'Logic' would dictate that Jagex get rid of the skills auto'ers direct engage in, not the ones they don't. True 'logic' would dictate that Jagex remove the trade function all together, as no trading whatsoever would all but kill RWT'ers. Making a faulty cause and effect assumption and using that as a basis for removing a complete area of the Runescape map seldom used by auto'ers to trade isn't 'logic'-- That's a fallacy. I mean, how can anyone claim that the wilderness HAD to change? Just how many RWT'ers used the wilderness to trade as opposed to the number of RWT'ers who simply stood in one of the safe zones in Runescape to trade? I'd be willing to bet that the number was all but minute. Why the hell would anyone risk being PK'ed when they could easily-- And I mean easily-- Make 'unbalanced trades' in a much safer area? If you were a RWT'er would you trade in the wilderness?

Dear God... No, those are not the same thing as PK'ing.

^Definitive proof that something is wrong.

Everyone benefits from cheaper prices, as you get more 'bang for your buck', so to speak. I can't see how that's a bad thing. In fact, it's a fairly good thing. Yes, please. As a side note, no one responded to my earlier post. I feel so unloved :(

People buying Runescape membership via credit card isn't RWT. That's a completely different issue from RWT and I'm fairly sure Jagex knows this. RWT is where you trade real life cash for in-game items and money. Transactions between RWT'ers doesn't affect Jagex in any way, shape or form as no money is being directed towards Jagex (Money is flowing between the two involved parties). Therefore I fail to understand where RWT begins to impose on Jagex financially.

Me :mrgreen: *God bless metal dragons* Anyway, things won't be as bad as you say, simply because the price of nature runes are steadily going down. Granted, you'll still lose a hefty bit of money if you buy yew longs and natures, but you won't lose as much money as you would have before the wilderness downdate.

That's a complete generalization, as you're assuming that PK'ers made up the majority of RWT'ers. Can you prove it? No, you can't. I could very easily make up stuff about skillers that you wouldn't be able to prove one way or another. No. They wouldn't need to be removed. The most that would need to be changed would be quest requirements, as that's where most of the skill restrictions lie. *Explained better below* The whole "This game relies on skills" argument is becoming increasingly untrue as time progresses. The best weapons and armor aren't player made but rather dropped. You can go to your nearest magic shop and load up on every rune you could possibly need. The same goes with arrows. Food is becoming increasingly obsolete, due to: 1.) Safe spots and 2.) Alternative healing methods (i.e., Guthans). More and more monsters are beginning to drop potions that used to only be player made. Need I continue? The notion that skills drive this game, while it might have been true years ago, is nothing more than poppycock now. Skills in this game are slowly being phased out and are becoming useful for one thing and one thing only; Meeting arbitrary requirements in order to do a quest. Quests could easily be rewritten so that they rely more on wits and combat than needing 40 agility to climb a rope so you can talk to an NPC -.- Right now, the only skill which can be described as a truly integral part of Runescape would be slayer (Combat related), even though I find the concept behind slayer to be completely stupid. All others are well... Not all that important in providing players with the best items to be had in the game (Granted, I'm tired so there's probably one or two examples I'm leaving out). You've been hanging around Qeltar a bit too much. I don't think you were even on the RSOF when that argument occurred. Read. More. Than. The. Title. I didn't say to remove EVERY skill. Sheesh...!

This thread is almost 2 years old :?

There's nothing wrong with PK'ing RC'ers or people doing treasure trails. YOU'RE IN THE WILDERNESS! It annoys me how some people think they should have been granted immunity because they weren't trying to PK.

Oh, look! It's the dreaded "Get over it" line. How original and thought provoking. I wish I could have come up with such a witty response. What...? I bet you're there are more immature people in Catherby at any given day then there were in the wilderness. Therefore, we need to get rid of fishing as that'll make Runescape a vastly better place :roll:. I get tired of the ignorant skiller mentality that some people have. You're quick to point out each and every minor fault you can find within the wilderness, yet blatantly ignore the major faults within the 'safe' areas of Runescape. No, the wilderness wasn't perfect but no where on Runescape is. And, for the record, I was called a 'noob' far more times outside of the wilderness than inside of it, simply because there are more people outside of the wilderness and, therefore, a much higher probability of running into a jerk. ...But, really, I'm just saying. It's not like that's important or anything. It's called a hyperbole. Yes, I'm well aware that not all auto'ers were confined to fishing, mining and woodcutting, but there's no denying that the overwhelming majority of them were. This is pretty much indisputable. Anyway, does no one read more than the title anymore? I didn't say to remove all skills; Just the three that auto'ers frequently engaged in. Skirt around this issue all you want, but the majority of auto'ers were centered around non-combat skills. Therefore, knowing this, why didn't Jagex go after the non-combat skills that auto'ers actively engaged in instead of going after the activities that auto'ers rarely, bordering on never, engaged in? "Because lots of people would get upset" isn't an adequate excuse, as the ends justify the means. Or have you forgotten? Common sense would say that you'd make it harder for auto'ers to actively participate in those skills. Unfortunately, Jagex lacks common sense so instead of solving the problem, they go to great lengths to exacerbate them, creating more problems in the long run.

No, they wouldn't. There's a reason most auto'ers engaged in fishing, woodcutting and mining (Flax picking as well, though it's not technically a skill) while all but ignoring the other skills-- Because they're the easiest skills to start, require no monetary investments save for a couple of gold and produce the most money based on the amount of time expended in doing them. Now and then you might have found an auto'er runecrafting natures, but the overwhelming majority of them were confined to the three aforementioned skills. Congrats on reading nothing but the title. Except players could and would kill them, unless the auto'ers found a way to kill brutal green dragons.

:wall: Both are activities. The difference is that there's an actual skill called whereas there is no defined skill for PK'ing and/or staking. However, that's a bit off-topic as you didn't answer my question. If the ends truly justify the means (As some people are claiming they do) then why not simply remove the skills auto'ers directly engage in instead of removing areas of the game which are indirectly related to auto'ers?

Since 99.99999% of all auto'ers participated in a non-combat skill (Fishing, woodcutting, mining) why couldn't Jagex simply remove those skills and label the innocent players caught in the crossfire as 'collateral damage'? The ends, after all, seem to justify the means (In Jagex's eyes, of course). ... ... ... ... Of course, this idea will more than likely be flamed to hell by those people who frequently fish, woodcut and mine, but I have to ask you why my idea is any less idiotic than ruining staking and PK'ing for those who actively engaged in those activities? If you're one of those people who believe that there must be casualties in Jagex's pursuit of victory, then why does it matter who those casualties are so long as the ultimate goal (No more auto'ers and RWT'ers) is achieved?

How was it an 'acceptable loss'? If skilling was destroyed as a byproduct of getting rid of auto'ers, would you consider that an 'acceptable loss' as well? Did you stake? Was that a part of the game you actively partook in? If not, then you can't say that it's exactly the same now as it was before. All right... The actual duel arena is the same, but you can no longer stake large amounts of money/rares, thus destroying a part of the game for a substantial number of players. If Jagex wanted to get rid of auto'ers, all they had to do was take skilling out of the game, as we know that's the real reason why auto'ers exist. I'm sure you'd just love that idea :thumbsup: You're confusing PK'ing and PVP. Fight pits is not PK'ing. Castle wars is not PK'ing. Dueling is not PK'ing. And, contrary to what Jagex 'thinks', Clan Wars and Bounty Hunter are not PK'ing. You sound like your average skiller. If those things were adequate substitutes to PK'ing, then wouldn't you think the majority of PK'ers would be out doing those things instead of complaining? You would think so, but apparently we're all idiots. Perhaps there's more to this game this clicking on a tree and watching your character mindlessly hack away at it for hours on end? Why is your way of playing the game more acceptable (My word) than my way? Most 'skillers' seem to suffer from the "Skilling is the right way to play this game!" mentality, and that's just absurd. Furthermore, how is is PVP more fair now? You were never forced into PVP areas. You went of your own accord. I never PK'ed someone who wasn't in the wilderness because they wanted to be. The only reason you have to argue that PVP is more 'fair' is that you're now able to partake in areas of the game virtually risk free when there used to be a substantial amount of danger associated with those activities.