insane

There's a little thing called consequences. What is a good criteria to judge someone on? The funny thing is that Lionheart was the one that viewed sex as "just intercourse". It is my opinion that the people that view sex as "just intercourse" are probably the people that don't give a rip whether they wait for their future spouse or not. But of course, not everyone is going to get married, that is true. Have sex all you want then, as you've got nobody to live for (relationally) but yourself.

That's very weird and also an oxymoron :P Not really, Judaism is more of a culture/lifestyle nowadays. I've got quite a few Jewish friends who don't believe in God but would still call themselves Jewish. In fact my parents have got some good friends, they're both atheist but still observe all the rites and rituals of Judaism. It's quite curious really, I suppose it's a cultural heritage which some people want to honour. It wouldn't be for me, but meh. :) Yeah but this thread is about what religion you are, not what culture/lifestyle you are. So when I saw Judaism, I assumed it was the religion.

I guess it's just a matter of opinion, but I disagree. I don't think it's going to be more special if you've practiced countlessly on other people. I think awkward honeymoon sex is going to be a hilarious good time; it would only be awkward if you and your spouse aren't comfortable around each other which would beg the question why you two got married. I can't wait. I don't want to be one of those bored honeymoon couples because the resort doesn't offer enough entertainment. I know that I have attitudes about sex, and I've never had sex before (oh look, cats out of the bag!). You don't have to have had sex before to have attitudes towards sex, and I'm sure the same goes for all people. It's not like I'm not going to talk with my SO about sex prior to marriage and find out what they think? That's true. I guess all I was trying to say was that there wasn't really a way to prove his statement as he hasn't experienced the opposite and thus cannot make a comparison. I don't understand. I said he was correct in saying that it was a conservative statement. I then said that he added a bunch of unnecessary terms to make me look bad, which he did. What's your point? Just because something is conservative doesn't make it wrong. I didn't say that. I said that if someone's boyfriend were to sleep, then cheat, they would regret sleeping with them. I didn't say everybody did this. That's why I said it was taking a gamble. because you just don't know. See above. See above. You can discuss sexual attitudes before having sex. Of course, having sex might change these attitudes but I don't think people are going to go from wanting it to hating it. I don't think I've ever heard of someone hating sex with the exception of wives whose husbands are emotionally distant.

That's very weird and also an oxymoron :P

What I meant is it shouldn't mater if it is your first time or not, you should be focusing on the fact that you got married -- not that you're about to have sex for the first time. So your argument changed from "it can still be special" to "it doesn't matter"? Seems like a cop-out. What I was trying to say is it can be special. I think its a special way to celerabate a marriage, regardless of if you have done it before or not. Either way to be honest I don't think we're going to change each others views here. However I don't think its shallow to have sex before you're married. Sorry about the jumbled ideas, raiding right now so I'm typing this while we go over the strat I agree that we are not going to change each other's views. That's not my goal. I saw a bunch of people blasting someone for staying a virgin before marriage which I think is ridiculous on a number of levels. I just wanted to present a rational view for why people support chastity prior to marriage so that people don't think everybody who believes in chastity before marriage is a closed minded fundamentalist who has never seen the real world and questioned the way things are.

What I meant is it shouldn't mater if it is your first time or not, you should be focusing on the fact that you got married -- not that you're about to have sex for the first time. So your argument changed from "it can still be special" to "it doesn't matter"? Seems like a cop-out.

Why can't it just be special because you are celerabating a happy time of your life? I don't see how the actual act has to be the big thing, not the marriage? Well yeah, that's what I believe, but last time I checked this conversation was about premarital sex and the effect it has on postmarital sex. Why not get specific? Vague statements like "you're wrong, he's right" aren't going to get you anywhere. I quoted specific parts of his post and attempted to refute them. You just say "I gave up reading your argument" and you expect me to accept that? I don't understand how zonor and i having an argument pegs me as intolerant and zonorhc as someone who listens intently? Perhaps you are the one with bias.

Your "argument" is wrong for a few reasons. 1) It assumes that you can't learn to "do it well' with your spouse. 2) It implies that you will be basing who you marry on how well they perform in bed. Not only is that shallow, it leaves little to be desired when you're aged and discover that you're impotent. 3) Saying it "makes for a better experience" implies that you have experienced the other side, which you obviously haven't. That is incredible vague and lacking in substance. Blanket statements only cover gaping holes in arguments. You're right. In fact, I'm arguing for conservative prudishness. So all you're saying is that my argument is consistent with my beliefs. And you added a bunch of emotionally loaded (aka. logically empty) terminology to make me look bad. It is mutual at the present time. I'm not sure how many women are thankful they slept with their boyfriends after their boyfriends turn around and sleep with someone else or ditch them for someone that "performs better". And that's my entire point - you don't know, if you aren't married, if you are in a long-term relationship. You're taking a gamble. You're looking at sex from a "live for the present" mindset. Oh really. So the more you do something, the more special and unique it gets? Give me a break. The more people you have sex with, the less meaningful it will get with each person. That's so obvious I don't even have to explain it to you. Ever heard of the term "the novelty just wore off"? Maybe with your 10th partner you'll still consider it "special", but it definitely won't be as special as if they were your 1st.

Just to give this topic a topic; I'll try and construct a non-religious argument promoting chastity before marriage; If marriage is an eventual goal in life, what greater gift do you have to give your spouse than your virginity? To say, "I've waited my entire life for someone like you, and now I can give you my all.". Throwing your intimacy around like a baseball is telling your spouse that you don't give a damn about intimacy in your marriage - it's like saying "I want sex to be as meaningless between us as possible. Everytime we sleep together we'll be reminded of all the times we were with other people and how this isn't something special between us". And what if you break up? Having sex before marriage is luring your S.O into a false sense of security - it's taking everything from them without any sense of committment; when your relationship ends, they are left having given you intimacy they can never get back - you have known their most intimate parts, and then thrown them aside like they are worthless. Sex before marriage is the exact opposite of protecting their heart - it's leaving it bare for the crows to pick at. Hmm, that was more like a rant and now I am tired. Goodnight. I completely agree with you. I was just kidding. ^_^ Yeah, like I said... I was tired :P

Just to give this topic a topic; I'll try and construct a non-religious argument promoting chastity before marriage; If marriage is an eventual goal in life, what greater gift do you have to give your spouse than your virginity? To say, "I've waited my entire life for someone like you, and now I can give you my all.". Throwing your intimacy around like a baseball is telling your spouse that you don't give a damn about intimacy in your marriage - it's like saying "I want sex to be as meaningless between us as possible. Everytime we sleep together we'll be reminded of all the times we were with other people and how this isn't something special between us". And what if you break up? Having sex before marriage is luring your S.O into a false sense of security - it's taking everything from them without any sense of committment; when your relationship ends, they are left having given you intimacy they can never get back - you have known their most intimate parts, and then thrown them aside like they are worthless. Sex before marriage is the exact opposite of protecting their heart - it's leaving it bare for the crows to pick at. Hmm, that was more like a rant and now I am tired. Goodnight.

Toronto got Jason Blake :D finally Sundin has a good winger to actually play with.

I always figured miracles made possible by God's existence was an axiom :| Of course. God can supposedly do anything. But there's no evidence for any of this, miracles included. But you implied you have qualms with Christians that believe in miracles, but no qualms with Christians that don't believe in miracles. If someone is a Christian they are going to believe in God making belief in miracles a perfectly consistent view to have. If belief in miracles is ridiculous in your opinion, then belief in God must be equally ridiculous in your opinion making Christianity ridiculously in your opinion which begs the question do you really have no qualms with people that follow Christ?

I always figured miracles made possible by God's existence was an axiom :|

That doesn't mean that they loved each other when they were 16 and 17. A couple at my church has been married for over 30 years and even they have the guts to say that thinking back, they didn't love each other on their wedding day.

It relieves stress for people. At the same time it causes stress - buying cigarettes, the need for them. :wall: It only relieves stress because the addiction causes the stress that smoking relieves.

Yes, but why stereotype that last tenth? The last tenth, if mature, won't worry about being stereotyped. They also won't consider themselves "mature"; I find the most mature people are the people that most readily admit they have a long way to go.

:lol: You laugh because you're one of the moronic puppets who actually believe unbaptized infants and people who swear burn eternally in fire. You're the one who should be laughed at and mocked, not me. No. I laugh because your post was completely without any kind of statistical backing. You state that "more Christians", meaning over 50%, will deceive you than will tell you the truth. That is a ridiculous, unsupported generalization. And then you go on to make an assumption about my beliefs that is again, completely without backing, and completely untrue. Oh, and you added an insult in there as well; um, way to go?

Why wait until then though? :wink: Oh, I had another before then (Last Defense?), but I wanted my rank to reflect the fact that I was a former staffie.

Yeah man, Carlin totally came around.

If you're leaving staff, just request a custom rank. I just had mine changed to 'Retired', and I think it works quite well.

:lol:

If I double-click an icon on my desktop to open a folder/application, I immediately minimize the window, and click elsewhere on my desktop to remove the icon highlighting.

And judging by the URL in the sig, mildly ironic :P

Yeah, she should watch anime and play Runescape.

The problem is that people think changing their gender will somehow fix their problems. It won't. Changing your external circumstance isn't going to satisfy your "life's desire".