Duke_Freedom

It's ironic how some people in this thread state that RuneScape doesn't have an economy (or that it is not as complex as some people make it to be) and that they at the same time claim that people don't know what economics is. :lol: I've always had trouble with people claiming "this or that ruins the economy" though. People should remember that while RuneScape surely has an economy, most people are still playing this game for fun. Most people would agree that if everyone would be able to own all the best items ingame, the game would no longer be fun. Thus, completely in opposite to real life, a higher general level of wealth is not necessarily desireable, making it much more difficult to conclude what may and/or may not be "good" for the games economy. That said, I personally think people find it the most fun if the games economy simulates real world like behaviour as closely as it can. Lastly, there are different thoughts about inflation as well. Defining inflation as the general price rise in a basket of goods is one way, defining it as an increase in money supply (perhaps corrected for population increase) is another way.

If you have been around for awhile, you will note what the mods are like when it comes to pics likes these.... Personally i dont care. Yeah well, why didn't you consider it as an indirect poke at them then. :P

People like to hear biased opinions. It's just what darkmage099 said: the people make the media like this because they don't want to hear the real truth in most cases. Most people either think "bush sux" or "bush rox" anyway, so hearing someone on the radio yell "bush sux" when you think that too is great and the same goes for hearing "bush rox" on the tv when you think that instead. Democracy is a paradox in itself. Especially the way it works in practice.

[sarcasm on] Oh my god, I saw a girl in bikini... :oops: [sarcasm off] *goes to the beach to figure out there are hundreds of girls in bikini over there ;) Avril is okay though. ;)

You don't seem to understand a lot eh? :P - Normal logs are probably sold to other F2Pers because of merchanting F2Pers - Steel maintains its high price even for F2Pers because there simply can be only one price. You can't have a seperate P2P and F2P price. - People get more exp smelting mith ores too. Anyway, there are enough good reasons why people can't make more profit out of mith which have all been named in this thread already. Complaining about the economy not working right is as illogical as saying that the color red should be called green. A popular economic saying states that "the market is always right".

People are pure hypocrits, they close their eyes for things like this. Those claiming to never have heard about it go under that section too... People simply don't (want to) educate themselves on topics like this and you know why? They don't really care, at least unconsciously they don't, even though noone will obviously ever admit that. Face it... If people genuinely cared as much about things like this as they say they do -- keep in mind that there are thousands of similiar world problems like this -- then these issues simply wouldn't exist. These problems are created by humans and thus can be prevented by humans. Oh and I'm disgusted by most proactive animal right activists as well. Find yourself a more worthy goal instead of prostesting for the sake of protesting. It's not surprising to me that many animal right activists are anti-globalists and pure anarchists too. No, that's not stereotyping - that's the truth. Don't get me wrong, animals should be threaten well, as should all living beings, but the way most animal right activists seem to protest about it they seem to fit more under my observation of hypocritic-not-genuinely-caring people who protest for the sake of protesting rather than under the section of people who are trying to create a better world. No I don't believe world problems like this will ever be solved and even though I would love to do say otherwise, I refuse to be so hypocritic to do so.

Nature price = 300 Steel bar price = 600 Steel plate value minus nature price = 900 Steel bar smithing exp = 37.5 Effective cost / exp = (5*600 - 900) / (5*37.5) = 11.2gp / exp Mith bar price = 1100 Mith plate value minus nature price = 2820 Mith bar smithing exp = 50 Effective cost / exp = (5*1100 - 2820) / (5*50) = 10.7gp / exp Reason for the (small) discount is that it is (much) harder to buy mith bars in bulk and thus smithing steel bars is by far the most popular way for leveling smithing. And I'm fairly sure that if you have a large amount of mith bars, you'd be able to sell them 1200 each anyway, what would bring the effective cost / exp to 12.7gp / exp, significantly higher than the steel bar price. It's called inflation and has been going on forever, it's less of an issue these days however.

It's never gonna go away anyway and in the future more of these games will probably allow it one way or another as well. It's humorous how often threads about this very topic are starting to arise here on tip.it though, especially when we keep in mind this was completely undiscussable a little over a year ago. 1. So why do you care if people spend cash on it to have their fun? If you really think "it is just a game" then I don't really get why you can get so worked up about things like this. 2. Why do you care? 3. You are right as long as you don't bring it up as a reason to why it is immoral, because that would be circular reasoning. Perhaps multi-million.

Changing the question for myself into "if RuneScape was reset, would you start playing again?" Perhaps, but perhaps not. I'm not completely sure these days.

I never really worried about having rares security wise - you simply don't get hacked if you don't do anything that you shouldn't. Frequently random events did make me more anxious about having ~1bil value on me all the time back in the days and being able to loose it so easily though - one of the reasons why I've always opposed them, other then the fact that I don't believe honest players should ever have to suffer in their gameplay due to autoers and anti-autoing measurements. I've always considered it a sign of weakness in Jagex ability to actually do something against the autoers.

With capitalism feeding it. :roll:

They increase in value, due to no production / ready supply of them and adds to inflation. Yeah... Terrible. :roll: No they'll just create a new manner to gain the discontinued item. They did so with various items already (certain unidentified herbs, were other items too can't remember right now). Jagex won't unintentionally create any new discontinued items anymore and if they do you bet they'll be won't be discontinued for long.

Striking against rl trade = less money. On 1st may they said to have taken away 6 billion people. On their newer article they don't mention how much gp has been taken away, but they said to have banned 2.3k accounts. Note that it says 6 billion in gold, not 6 billion worth of materials. I wouldn't be surprised if we had lost at least another 6b in rares, raw materials and other junk. Assuming that the data Jagex gave us - the 6 billion - is true in the first place, that is still less then a billion a day. If my last gp calculations of a year ago now are at least a little useful still, this is not that much and money supply would still be growing. Plus if rares were banned on those accounts (I doubt that though), that would lead to less rares and rising rare prices over time. Rares have gone sideways / dropped for over 8 months now though. Pure essence has been 100gp+ each for a long time already..? :-X

But more yew production = more yew long production = more money supply due to high alching. Which is 8 months ago now and seriously that surely doesn't have any effect on it at all anymore. A re-adjusting period shouldn't have taken longer then 3 or 4 months tops, it's taking over double of that now - a major economy aspect (i.e. rares rising on the long term) just seems to have changed. There are some good reasons for that however, i.e. much lower population growth (major drive behind rares growth), construction and other money drains and lastly expensive substitutes for rares (i.e. third age). Despite all that I still remain a little positive on rares, but it is really hard to say where rares will be heading in future IMO. I think it will depend a lot on what updates Jagex does (and does not? :P) bring out.

No I don't regret ever getting into RuneScape nor do I regret all the time I spend on it and its community. I learned a lot from the game and the community about many different aspects that play a big role in real life. Then again, I'm a rare case anyway as I always more or less considered RuneScape as a sort of research object for various things. Plus I always took the game and its community much more serious then most people do. However, anyone who really realizes that there are real people behind the avatars ingame and forum posters on here should do so.

Sadly the Editor remains unable to actually address why Real World Item Trading is so bad. I can basically summarize his whole arguement as "it is against the rules and thus shouldn't be done". Those who read my article should know that I actually agree with that. However, RWIT being against the rules does not mean it is actually morally wrong itself. While that is exactly what I argue against and what you are clearly unable to defend apparently. Real Life law has had rules that encouraged anything from discrimination to violence. Defending a rule with the fact that it is currently a rule is extremely weak argumentation and a reasoning fallacity called circular reasoning. Exactly the reason why I don't get why people care so much about what others do. You seem to agree here with one of my main arguements for allowance of RWIT, being that RuneScape is essentially not a competitive game and that the game is what you make of it. It's a Virtual World. It has no starting conditions nor ending conditions.

Just a small point, but price manipulators don't permanently increase prices either. Only increased real demand can. You may say that prices of rares rise due to investors if you keep in mind that investors are not necessarily merchants. I agree with Solidus here and I also remain negative / neutral on 3rd age armour prices. I just don't see why they would be going up. That said, is anyone so kind to give me a rough price overview of all 3rd age armour these days? :P Disks are far from being just as rare as half wines. Having an economy in a game in the first place leads to all these issues - rares have absolutely and completely nothing to do with it. It's rampant in all MMO games. I suppose it is somewhat worrying that so many people are so positive for the price fluctuation of rares during the comming summer, knowing that rares have been sideways / downwards the past 8 months... That said I remain half positive on rares myself as well, although if the recent history is going to have a say, rares are not going to move up at all. Finally an interesting thread here on tip.it after so long... :P

Completely agree with you. RuneScape players shouldn't have any RL friends to help them. While we are at it, I suggest we remove the friendslist ingame as well... Not everyone has the same social abilities to get many people on his friendslist either.

Dofus is made by french developers, there's nothing korean about it... I played it for a short while. :-X RuneScape can learn something from it's auction system. :P Didn't like it enough to keep playing it for long though.

DUKE GOES WHAAAAAAAAAAAA! GO BLIZZARD I hope I'm going to fall in love with it just like I did with StarCraft. :D

People say a lot of things, them believing in it and saying it is relevant for them doesn't make any of it true. There are people who believe that the positions of Jupiter and Saturn have an effect on the stock markets, do you take those people seriously too then? Stop acting like I'm some arrogant brat, it is tiresome and you're only making yourself look ridiculous. I listen to opinions if they have a slight amount logical or factual arguementation behind them, unlike your arguements which mostly consist of: - Personal attacks because you disagree with my opinion - Randomly made up numbers - Discussion about bots, while it is simply a logical fallacity to defend rule 12 just because people who break rule 7 also break rule 12. - Failing to read my posts well Because enough people oppose Real Money Trading for all kinds of reasons. Even though (I believe that) all those reasons are based on ignorance and false truths, people still believe in them and so it is obviously much more tactful to avoid complaints by having both allowed and disallowed servers if you can - giving people the choice. No. All these games have the same fundamental aspect called grinding.

Yes that makes it not true. http://www.nickyee.com/daedalus/archives/000196.php http://www.nickyee.com/daedalus/archives/001469.php Some other people's views: http://www.nickyee.com/daedalus/archive ... php?page=1 Note that the site is large survey site on all kinds of issues.

nadir, can you stop with the personal attacks and leave my personal situation out of this discussion or do I need to let a mod point you to the Tip.it Rules? I'm done discussing with you, if you hadn't noticed that already. All my arguements against what you have said are in the article I have written. You go to school to get yourself educated. Yes, that helps getting a good paying job - but it is mostly ment to allow you to be able to perform well doing that job. As I said, school is there to educate you, it's not for fun necessarily. There's a huge difference in this. That's that boss choice. If he's idiotic enough to give a job to some high school drop out just because he gave him his maxed RS account then that's his choice. I'm not going to be able to change anything to that anyway. Apparently you are naive enough to think similiar practices (friends putting friends in high places in their company for example) doesn't already happen on an extreme scale? On what grounds would you try to prosecute him then? Sure. Weren't we talking about a game? What I find humorous about your guys arguements is that you seem to accuse me of bringing Real Life too much into RuneScape and yet all of you want RuneScape to be exactly like Real Life. People play RuneScape for fun, you guys just seem to disagree with that already - you claim that they are playing RuneScape to feel excitement of achievements that require hard work. People already do enough hard work in Real Life - usually that is exactly what they are trying to avoid when playing these games. Again the joy of making up random numbers that even go against the numbers found in real research. It is ironic that you guys have to fall back to making up random numbers about it to argue your point of view.

If the topic creator would really play it purely as a single player game, he wouldn't have signed up for a forum based on the game. :P Few people really play it purely as single player game, but they exist. I think many, perhaps even most, people play it as small or large ordinary multiplayer game or single player game with chat function though... Most people really don't interact all that much with the massive part of MMORPG and only have a selected group of friends they do most things with and talk to. As swedishboy5 rightly mentions that the massive part is mostly there during trading / merchanting, perhaps a bit during pking and staking too. Minigames and other such things seem more like 'normal' multiplayer games. For those who would mention clans as massively aspect, you're right, but only a minority (30%) participate in them according to this Tip.it Poll and only 14% of them really use clans for other things then pking.

The point remains that I am studying at university to educate myself, not to compete with other people over grades or anything. You still have a lot to learn about school and education apparently. Apart from that, your comparison is not perfect. Key aspect that misses here is that people play RuneScape for fun and shouldn't be forced to do things they don't like, unlike real life education which is there to educate you and that is not necessarily always fun. Again, few people do it on such a massive scale. It's not going to have an effect on the economy, that's just a made up fairy tale told by those who oppose it for so called "unfairness" reasons. And it's a Virtual World with Real Life people playing in it, do not forget that. It is not independent of the real world at all.