kelem_ryu

It's the position of the PLANETS and it isn't DETERMINED by them, to be precise, but oh well. Knowing how it works isn't a necessity to use and apply it. Lt, i have to point this out: There is a little bit more to astrology then just the "sign of zodiac" :P Not that it isn't an important feature, but it's a little like trying to tell people about their parents and all you do is tell them what their fathers were doing for a living. Well it's something at least. Anasthesia; maybe you are the one who is biased. How can you be sure that isn't the case?

I did capoeira for some time and plenty of moves you do are very similar to those there. Flips and sommersults are very capoeirasque imo.

Thanks for your contribuitons warri0r45, Kinslayer777and zaquierming. I don't believe in argumentation, so all i want to read are some other thoughts i can "meditate" upon. There were some lines that made some sense to me.

True. If you ask me, there was no need to post any arguments at all in the first place. People belive in many silly things, you can't change that and this thread wasn't made up to discuss astrology, it was made up to discuss silly horoscopes. You could make up a thread to discuss atrology and leave this one to what it was created for. How can you be so sure about what you are saying? Who knows? In 500 years people might be laughing at all those scientific brable.

I wake up, when ever i wake up. :P If i have an exam early in the morning i use the alarm of my cell phone. Thst's the only one i have.

metaphysics neednt be so complicated and mind boggling. we exist, things exist, the computer you are looking at exists. It is, and existance will never not be. If it werent, there wouldnt be anyone to ascertain as to whether or not it does exist. its all a battle with words. Dont let it get to you. Listen to music. Watch the clouds go by, whatever. Well that's the obvious answer. :P Actually this is a whole topic on it's own. I'd say as soon as you can't distinguish it from anything else anymore.

So youd rather sit an contemplate on an idea and go crazy, than live? You must throw one hell of a christmas party! :lol: I spend Christmas with my family so it's not too lively as it is. Every breath I take is another moment I live and so in insanity I still live. You can't imagine the endless hours I spend thinking (most of which is done during school when I don't have friends around). The only time I don't think about ideas/theories is when I'm around friends. TheHorror is right though: Thinking can drive you pretty mad and can also make you depressed. So make sure you think yourself a safety net, otherwise you might fall and there seems to be no bottom. Then again if there is a bottom, then i really would like to know what it is like. That's what keeps me thinking. If thinking can lead to depression I think I should have thought up a safety net long ago seeing as how I've been depressed for quite some time. Though I suppose if I go crazy doing what I enjoy then I haven't comepletely wasted my life. Nah, not that bad. Just think a little about what you think and find out, how you feel about certain thoughts. If they make you feel bad, then find out why that is so and how you can change them make you feel bad. Also remember that there are things that are commonly accepted and a common concept on how you ought to think and how you ought to behave. So i'd suggest you retain some connection to these common places. If you wander too far astray you will be perceived as insane and maybe even think of yourself as insane. Also remember that being happy wouldn't hurt, so if you can pick up this state of mind somewhere along your travel ...

So youd rather sit an contemplate on an idea and go crazy, than live? You must throw one hell of a christmas party! :lol: I spend Christmas with my family so it's not too lively as it is. Every breath I take is another moment I live and so in insanity I still live. You can't imagine the endless hours I spend thinking (most of which is done during school when I don't have friends around). The only time I don't think about ideas/theories is when I'm around friends. TheHorror is right though: Thinking can drive you pretty mad and can also make you depressed. So make sure you think yourself a safety net, otherwise you might fall and there seems to be no bottom. Then again if there is a bottom, then i really would like to know what it is like. That's what keeps me thinking.

Because there is. Thats all you need to know. Now leave it be. Well okay. It's just that there are discussions like this one going on all the time on this forum, so i thought i'll ask the one that puzzles me most.

I'll try the question again, in case it wasn't clear: why is there anything at all? I know. I also know that insanity isn't exactly a fun state to be in. It's not that i'd ponder that question all the time. Sometimes it bugs me though.

oh ups. btw 1) it's already 3am monday the 11th where i live 2) it's kelem_ryu not kalem_ryu in order not to make another uneccassry post - EDIT: nevermind 1), just figured out there is time anyway.

Why is? instead of not? I mean why do things exist? There could as well exist nothing instead, yet there is existance. I think, that fact that there is existance (i'll just take it as a fact, since i can perceive things, cogito ergo sum and that.) can't possibly be coincidence. I doubt it is chance, that there is something instead of plain nothingness. So i'd suggest, that the very fabric of (how do i call something that includes both nothing and something, can't call it space, because then it already is something) has "properties that "force" existance to be. Or in other words: My theory is that it is impossible that there is nothing, because otherwise there would be nothing. Although i have a feeling, that actually that what we perceive as something really is nothing, but i wouldn't know how to solve that paradox. Any thoughts on this? Somehow i feel this issue is fundamental, but maybe the answer would be mind blowing or completely incomprehensible. Maybe though, the whole question is completely irrelevant for my existance (and yours for that matter).

Against whom do i play, or was my appliaction too late?

I liked this video, because he questioned something that you aren't really allowed to question. I mean, everybody who doesn't believe in evolution is considered stupid. Problem i have with this guy, is that he says evolution is stupid and turns around and says creationism is the thing. Still some of the things he pointed out, were things i wondered about when i learned them in school. For example nobody knows how life evolved out of those early amino acids, that are supposed to be possible to form. (I say supposed, because the guy in the video says they can't form.) One problem with his argumentation is, that there are too many "facts" you just can't verify just by watching the video. You'd have to believe him that they are true. Also sometimes he mixes jokes, that seem to be on topic, but are off topic with the evidence he provides, so that the audience is lead to think that evolution is.. well stupid. Great rethoric i have to give him that. As said before i think it's great he questions evolution. For all i know i couldn't tell if evolution is true or false. The only evidence i have is the evidence i was told to exist. I can say the same about creationism. I couldn't tell by myself wether it's true or false. I just was told it to be false. I can't prove either of them, nor could i falsify them. I didn't believe in evolution before i saw this video, nor did i believe in creationism. So if you ask me, both theories are wrong, or maybe both are right. I don't prefer one above the other.

Well i say there is synchronity, you say there isn't. To me synchronity is as perceivable as gravity. I can't "prove" the things i told you and i also said, that i won't try. Also i don't say you have to believe me. Actually i don't care too much if you believe me or not, but i do care if you believe i'm a moron or not. To me it's clear that astrology and for that matter magic (or magick how magicians call it) works. I can also tell you that i think of magick as highly as i think of science (not very). Astrology fascinated me for some time, but i don't use it anymore, because what use it is, to read the chart of a person, when i can read the person instead? I don't think astrology can be classified as magic and i know that scientists wouldn't count it as science. From the beginning on, i didn't know what this discussion would be good for at all and basically it isn't even a discussion, because i don't give arguments that are valid by the given rules of a discussion (and these are rules i disapprove of.) To me magic(k) is one level above science, wich in turn is on a level with religion, in fact i do see science as a religion. Most astrologers just use astrology, the same way you and me are using the internet. We don't have to understand everything about how it works. We just need to know, how to use it. Well basically the point where you won't follow me is the synchronity, so i guess i have no ground =P. The quote is out of "Hamlet". I just don't know how it goes in english. Hamlet says to Horatio: "There are more things between heaven and earth than (something along these lines: your school wise knowledge says), Horatio." -> looked it up on the internet. in english it goes like this:

Yay! Harry Potter in your shelf and also "Sofies Welt" as it is called in german (the thick wine red book) For my part: I try to collect myself. =P

Explain that then? You've still said nothing of this solid foundation. You've hinted that history repeats itself and that's hardly an explanation. How does that have anything to do with what peoples' personalities are like? How does it have anything to do with how different people will supposedly have different experiences each day? How does it explain how, when you look in different newspapers, the horoscopes say different things for each star sign? Surely if it was any form of prediction it would have to be based on reasoning - and if it was then all predictions would be the same. First of all newspaper horoscopes are garbage. Every astrologist will tell you that. some do them nevertheless, because it is a nice source of income. You can't make any valid statement on just the so called sign of zodiac you were born in. It's not the same, but it goes in the direction: When you read it's 3pm on your watch, is it 3pm, because it's what the watch shows? The question would then be: Why is there a synchronity between the planets and the happenings on earth? and that's where i can't give you an answer you wouldn't tear into pieces. i mean i could tell you that synchronity is one of the fundamental principles of magic, but i have a feeling you are strongly biased towards magic. Still astrology isn't magic. Just this one principle is the same. Like pysics and biology aren't the same, although they share some principles. Also i don't want you to think i'm a fool for believing such things, because i ain't. I could give you a quote myself: "There are more things between heaven and earth, than "don't know how this line goes in english", Horatio."

No i didn't.

Okay, i don't want to to prove anything. I'll try to explain it a little bit though, but don't give me those "i'll prove you wrong arguments", because i don't want to "prove i am right" either. First of all there is the problem that there are no factors that could be quantified. You could make statistics, but there you have the problem that you can't make a statistic about the correlation between mars in a water sign (scorpio, cancer, pisces) and people that assert themselves through emotional means (instead of by intellectual means as somebody with mars in a air sign would do.) Also when i said emotionally, this "emotionally" is already limited language. It would be more accurate to say somebody with mars in scorpio asserts him or herself scorpioesque, but most people wouldn't know what exactly scorpioesque means. It's like the innuit having idk how many words for snow. So you say "emotionally" and already limit the language so much that it becomes way to vague. Also "asserts" is already vague in comparsion to mars. So it is more accurate to say "mars in scorpio" then "asserts himself emotionally" (wich is also limited due the fact that english isn't my main language. otherwise i might find better words. Example to the above: I had an exam in german and had to describe what romantic literatur is all about. I could attribute the same adjectives to the romantic as i could to neptune. I could have written romantic literature is about everything that neptune is, but instead i had to write, about what neptune is. Every sign of the zodiac and every planet has a certain feel, a certain theme and mood, like every word has a certain feel. Astrology is based on the principle of synchronity. As for example the entire romantic has a certain feel to it, as has the idk renaissance. Every time has a certain feel. It seems these moods alter cyclic in the same way the planets rotate. That's not because the planets rotate, it's because the whole solar system is a unit. So from reading the positions of the planets you can conclude what's going on on the earth. :? Wasn't a very comprehensive explaination.. Intuitevely it's pretty clear how it works and such and i consider inuition more important then reason by now. I didn't feel like that always. I found that reasoning is very prone to corruption and mainly serves for claims of power. I don't believe that there is such a thing as right or wrong and i don't care if i am "right" or "wrong". I percieve arguments as some kind of duells, where truth isn't really important at all. That's why i don't care to argue anymore. I say something that means something between the lines, you perceive it in your way and can say something to. I'll in turn read between the lines again and so on. I don't want to prove anybody wrong either. I just want what i write to be accepted as what it is. Words are just wrappings for a message. and all that has nothing to do with astrology anymore :P So go ahead and take these paragraphes apart. I didn't mean it to be taken apart, i meant it to be taken as a whole, not as a series of arguements or the like, that can be countered. Anyway do with it whatever you want.

lol! i guess so OKay, okay.. i just heard all those arguments soooo many times before and discovered, that most discussions are just there to make oneself sound smart and to make oneself feel smart. About those arguments you gave. As far as i read them they are all valid. There are counter arguments, that are equally valid. Scientific research (all that i read so far) on astrology is biased from the premisse on so that their research has no value to astrologist at all. Most people have the habit of proving whatever they want to prove. I'm increadibly frustrated by discussions in general, so usually i don't bother with them anymore. idk, what to say. i'll try to give a brief overview on what astrology is maybe. If you are interested that is.

Ah, I see. Browsing over a few books means you do have knowledge of the subject. Clearly, how wrong of us, Mr. Expert. How do YOU gain knowledge on a subject? Besides i studied easily two dozend books on astrology. Oh right, so it's gone from a couple to 24? You sure read fast. I've yet to see any form of arguement derived from your magnitude of 'fact' either. I don't care to give an argument. Don't you get it? Why should i care?

Who say i'm unable? I'm UNWILLING ffs! Consider yourself right and me wrong, that's what discussions are for anyway, isn't it? Proving yourself right and the others wrong.

Ah, I see. Browsing over a few books means you do have knowledge of the subject. Clearly, how wrong of us, Mr. Expert. How do YOU gain knowledge on a subject? How many did YOU read?Besides i studied easily two dozend books on astrology over a couple of years. Sorry that i don't have decades of experience.

No, i haven't and i don't intend to. If you are seriously interested in the subject, there are plenty of books on it. The topic is: "What's your Horoscope?" not "Let's discuss Astrology!"

For all the people out there, who have never seen an astronomical chart here is one: You need the date, exact time (+- 2minutes won't really matter usually) and the coordinates of the place. The picture is of my birth chart, but you can of course make one for any event.