Tigra00

People who deny Global Warming exists are absolutely hilarious. We're pumping Co2 into the air like mad, which traps heat in the Earth directly. At the same time, we're chopping down acre's of rain forest everyday. The rain forest is like the "lungs" of the Earth. It all makes perfect sense, but nevermind that! A few degree's in temprature over the next 100 years isn't that bad, right? I mean, it feels just fine here! ...Yes, tell yourself that when the ice caps have melted entirely and there is no more New York to gauge snowfall on. Even global warming skeptics (scientists) have been jumping on board as of the last year or so. The only people arguing now are people hired by oil companies to chatter for them. They're probably not lying though, I'm sure....*Cough*

Once again, you are forcing your view of what is morally acceptable on someone else who may not hold that same view. What if someone believes the harming someone without his consent is morally right? As a moral relativist, who are you to deny him that? So you are a moral absolutist after all. You should have said so earlier. Now comes the problem - how do we know which system of morality is the absolute one? How do we know which morals are absolute and which aren't? When have I said I hate gay people? When will you stop putting words in my mouth? When will you stop making personal insults and emotional appeals instead of dealing with my logic? Once more, all you're doing is making personal attacks, emotional appeals, and putting words into my mouth. You accuse me of spreading hate, yet your posts are filled with hatred of Christians and insults toward me. Show me where I have made one hateful comment tonight. I don't hate Christians. I "feel sorry for them"...Wow, where have I heard that line before... I don't label myself. You can label me all you want, but I don't have to label myself "absolutist" just for your convenience. Use your brain and you'll see which I am. As for which morals are absolute and which are not, hmm, let's see...We can trust what we know to be true everyday...Or we can trust a 6,000 book...Yea, that's a tough one. Like I said, the Bible is full of hate-mongering, and if you wish to trust that (you do), then you're no more than a hate-monger yourself. Just remember - the Bible also says slavery is A-Okay, buddy. Better go get one since it's morally right, huh?

It's fine to use an example, but an example does no good in a philosophical discussion if it ignores the scope of that discussion. We are discussing moral systems, and you continue to ignore that discussion and use the example of homosexuality within one moral system, which I have questioned, and neither you nor Satenza have defended fully. Show me your refutation of my logic. Show me where you have done anything but make emotional appeals and personal insults. When have I spread hate? When have I said anything about hating homosexuals? Stop putting words in my mouth, and stop making personal attacks. You arguing against us in itself is an attack on homosexuality. We're saying it's cool and hurts noone and you're sitting here talking about "moral systems" when noone gives a damn. Your morals suck. There, I addressed the system. It just sucks. And no, I like personal attacks. They're funny. I have to fight stupidity with something, and I can't fight it with brain-power because your average Christian skull is 4 inches thick with Titanium plating. So I just go for mocking you and pointing out how hate-filled your religion is. Not necessarily you, but your religion.

That is only the subject if you believe that the degree of harm something causes is the only measure of morality. Of course, if you believe morality is subjective, as Satenza does, and as I thought you did, then it is absurd and arrogant to claim that laws should be based on degrees of harm, when there are other systems of morality out there that are equally valid. As for the rest of your post, all you have done is refused to argue with my logic, made emotional appeals, and make hateful insults against me and anyone who shares my religion. As I said on the other thread, Dude. Some morals are subjective, some are absolute. Murder is absolute. Hating gay people is extremely subjective. You hate gay people, I don't. You think they ruin everything (lawl, how?), and I think they hurt noone. You can't see it. You precious book tells you what to believe and you take it as fact. Is that wrong to assume? Assuming I'm right (I am), then you're just not allowed to see it my way. The Bible says "Hey, don't be gay. If two dudes sleep together, kill those nasty weirdos." and you believe that means "Homosexuality is wrong and hurtful to society. Here comes another insult, because that's absolutely stupid. The Bible is full of hate, and you just will not admit it. You can't. Why do you think people like me don't believe in what the Bible teaches? We don't want to end up like the mindless, hateful zombies that you guys are. You don't have a shred of common sense or decency. You just go with what the "good book" says, aye? Yea, good plan. Even if you sound like a jerk, at least you're going to Heaven, right? Wrong. (And only Jews go to Heaven anyways.)

Why in the world can you not stop talking about homosexuality when we are talking about systems of morality? Why in the world can you not back up your statements with logic instead making insults and emotional appeals? Why in the world can you not deal with my logic instead of insulting me and my beliefs? Why in the world should I continue this discussion with you unless you are willing to deal with my logic instead of attacking me? 1.) Homosexuality is an example of 'morals'. Thus the usage. 2.) All my statements are VERY logical. You fail to see the logic because you are blinded by the God bubble. You can't see it my way because if you do for a second, you'd be straying off God's path, fearing he'd send you straight to Hell. That's not my fault. What is not logical about not hating homosexuals and saying that they hurt NOONE? What's illogical is you saying the opposite. 3.) Don't deal with it then. Nothing would make me happier than to see a Christian stop spreading his hate.

Honestly, I don't know why you don't get it. Why are you even fighting me? Somewhere deep down, your common sense screams "Stop, you're embarassing yourself!" and you ignore it. The morals in the Bible are bigotry. The ones we're talking about, of course. Homosexuality and the like. Murder, of course, is an absolute. It's just wrong and we all know it. We do not need the Bible or anyone else to tell us this. How many people here were taught in school that murder is wrong? Noone? Yea, that's because it goes without saying. Noone ever had to teach me that. Now, how many people were taught in school that homosexuality hurts everyone in society? Just the religious ones, then? Yea, thought so. Probably because your whole religion is full of hate-mongering bigots. NORMAL parents/teachers don't teach their children to hate homosexuals or think they're "weird". Normal parents/teachers don't teach their children that homosexuals are responsible for all the world's problems. It's kinda' cute how you beat around the bush at the real issue here. The real issue isn't "Is morality subjective", because honestly, who cares? That's not the subject. The subject is do homosexuals hurt society? The answer is no, and you believe the answer is yes. You're just not saying it because you know what the consequences are. You can only say it amongst your fellow cultists and get away with it. Isn't it odd that all the religious people here sing the same tune about homosexuals, while the rest of us say "Uhh, they don't hurt anyone...Leave them alone..."? No, it isn't odd at all. It's how you people do things. Continue doing it, then. We all see through your little disguise of "understanding". You "understand" that if we don't agree with you, we're all going to Hell. Nice.

And if morals are subjective, why are those bad things? Because you say so? Why should we listen to you? Already told you why. Because you say we should listen to you? Apart from that, I don't recall you saying any other reason. Since I missed it, would you please repeat it in terms that are more clear? YOUR BELIEFS ARE FROM A BOOK. Ours are from our hearts in knowing what's right. Homosexuality may not be "normal" in the sense that they can't reproduce that way, but we know not to condemn them and shun then and not give them equal rights. THAT is what makes us better than you. It is what makes our morals better than yours. Our morals transcend yours.

We already went over this, Astra. Yours are from a book.

And if morals are subjective, why are those bad things? Because you say so? Why should we listen to you? Already told you why.

Because other people are stupid. "Other people" also believe that blacks are lesser beings. "Other people" also believe women are lesser beings. "Other people" also believe that homosexuals are lesser beings who apparently spread AIDS, which is predominantly a HETEROSEXUAL disease, not a homosexual one. Don't believe me? Go look up the numbers in Africa. I'd wager that 99% of all cases there were gotten through heterosexual intercourse. So, yea..."Other people" are wrong. The people who are right are the people who can sit down and say "You know what? Those two gay guys aren't bothering me. They're living their life as they please and that doesn't hurt me. Infact, good for them!" NOT : "Eww, those disgusting pigs need to get out of my sight! They're going straight to Hell!" Now, you and I both know that is the reaction of religious people as a whole. Of course you'll argue and say "Nay, we wish for them to be saved and have a better life!" well good for you. You're still using that to cover your bigotry towards them. Perhaps they don't want - nay, they don't NEED - to conform to "your" views, aye?

Astra, it probably has something to do with the fact that his morals come from a 6,000 year old book that may very well be fiction, and ours come from our own personal common sense. So yea, I'd say ours are pretty much better...Unless you're planning on getting your morals from Harry Potter or something anytime soon.

I used to play Syphon Filter, Metal Gear Solid, Blitz, Vigilante 8...Stuff like that, up until a couple years ago. Borrowed it to some kid and he dropped it out his window on purpose because he thought the thing was worth like $10 and I wouldn't care. :roll:

They aren't dominating DVD which is what really needs to happen to win a format war ;) Actually, I just read the other day that Blue-Ray and HD-DVD are neck-in-neck in the whole format war thing. Normal DVD's are like $30 so of course they're going to win out for a looong time. :lol:

And again BlueLancer makes a good argument. ...And again, it will be completely ignored because religious people see homosexuals as the biggest threat to the world, like, ever.

That's not an argument, that's ridiculous. You're starting the same flame war as on the religious threads; "If you don't believe in God, you can't have morals". It's not worth discussing this since you obviously fail to understand morals have nothing to do with religion. If it is ridiculous how come atheists can't defend moral absolutes? Because, uh-duhhhh, they're not moral absolutes to us. WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS DOESN'T HAVE TO BE TAKEN AS FACT. Remember the last thread you tried to prove atheists have no morals on? Remember what happened? You stopped posting because you lost. Care to try again? Go hump your Bible.

Christ, I wish you whiners would be quiet. I NEVER get confused, but XplosivBam has officially confused the hell out of me. I can't even respond to him because in order to do so, I would have to take as many stances on the subject as he is. He's hopping all over the damn place and I don't even know what he's arguing for or against anymore. "Incest is wrong, but the Bible doesn't say that specifically, so we just assume it. Homosexuality is wrong because the Bible says so. No wait, it just says sexual immorality. All you non-believer atheists are just incapable of morals. And you're probably gay, too." Honestly, just shut the hell up. Noone even knows what you're arguing about anymore because when someone brings up another point, you switch your stance on it. It's like a game of Jesus-Tennis and noone cares to watch it. Just admit it already. You're a religious bigot and you're basing all your claims off what you read in a stupid, pointless 6,000 year old book that someone wrote in a mud-hut. I'd tell you to just use your common sense, but unfortunately, believing in religion sacrifices your common sense on the alter of idiocy. And yes, I did just say all you religious creepies have no common sense. And no, it isn't over-generalization. You'd have to be lacking it to believe some dude in the sky in another dimension is going to reward you with eternal life for being a [puncture] while all the actual good people who just live their life go to hell.

You claim I am a religious zealot but yet I haven't made any connection with god or religion. Incest has negative effects on society: True. Homosexuality doesn't have negative effects on society: False. - "Homosexual men are at significantly increased risk of HIV/AIDS, hepatitis, [obsessive-compulsive] cancer, gonorrhea and gastrointestinal infections as a result of their sexual practices." - "Women who have intercourse with women are at significantly increased risk of bacterial vaginosis, breast cancer and ovarian cancer than are heterosexual women." My argument is that you can't condemn incests without condemning homosexuality. Almost everyone agrees incest is wrong, for genetic reasons, almost everyone also agrees its for moral reasons. If YOU believe incest is morally wrong come up with a moral argument against it (proving incest is immoral) without condemning rapists. Personally I think its impossible so prove me wrong by condemning incest but not homosexuality. You seem to not understand that Homosexuality and Incest have NO CONNECTION (Nothing at all!) to eachother, except via the Bible, who says they're both wrong. And please, as if it's any question you're a zealot or not. You've posted your hateful bigotry on the forums before in the name of the Christian faith, and you always get owned and run away to your Bible to thump it to secure yourself. I don't have to make an argument for Incest being wrong or right. It has nothing to do with homosexuality except via the Bible. Are you saying that because Incest is unnatural and homosexuality is unnatural, that they're both the same thing, or what? That seems to be the case. Well guess what? They're not. Incest has very valid reasons for being illegal. Mainly because most of it has to do with child molestation, rape, and abuse in general. You can't marry inside your family because you can't have kids inside your family. If you do, the child will be at risk for deformaties. Homosexuals having sex and being married has none of these risks. Homosexuals are at higher risk for disease for only one reason, which you failed to mention: A lot of them don't use protection. It isn't like these diseases randomly only occur in the back-door of gay men and hibernate there. YOU are just as much at risk as they are if you're foolish enough to not be careful. These are not just "gay diseases", they're human diseases. You really shouldn't be using Incest as an argument, by the way. Your sacred Bible says thats how we all got here. Furthermore, if you're going to talk about deformaties caused by it, you should again really not even address is, because how are you going to prove that we're all products of Adam and Eve, yet have no deformaties? Yea, thought so!

It'll get banned. Our ratings board are [kitties]. Just slap an R18+ on the games and be done with it - it aint hard #-o Yea, it'll get banned. :P Never fear, Aussie's, for I will send you the game from good ole' America! The land of games that involve kicking heads off and eating them. And it's perfectly okay!

You'd give it a 9 but not a 9.6? Do you realize how stupid that sounds? It's .6 points. Honestly now. The game isn't over-hyped, it was hyped to the point of how good it was thought it was going to be, and it delivered. Everything was well-implemented. To the OP - You have GoW but have yet to play it? You better start. :P It's fun, but playing it with a friend on co-op is even more fun.

You can't prove them wrong. I mean, obviously we do it over and over, but they never listen. They never say "Oh..I understand now..", they just keep on truckin' with their stupidity. They fear God and fear that if they don't do something for "the cause" that God will be pissed at them. It's just BS. They'll go as far as to deny people equal rights just for a ticket to Heaven, but they fail to see that condeming = ticket to Hell. Have fun there, homophobes. I'll chill with all those "weird gay guys" in Heaven. ...That is of course if I even believed that crap.

It's. Religious. Zealot. Babble. Why does anything more need to be discussed?

That's a pretty lame reason to fail completely...It's okay though, I failed mine the first time too for turning into the far lane on a one-way. :P

Unless BC changed something, and it might have, rogues wtfown everything at max-level. That last Uldaman boss is actually pretty tough. I was level 48 when I ran it with two level 60's and we couldn't down the boss.

It is also a siblings choice to have sex with another sibling, so why is that against the law but now homosexuality? So far the only argument backing up homosexuality is that it is the persons choice to do/act how they want to. So why are people only fighting for homosexuality and not other things like taking dumps on the street. I'm pretty sure some people would find that to be convenient. *off to school* First off smarty, you're late to the party. What I mean by that is that your brain obvious has yet to arrive. There is a good reason people can't crap in the street. Mainly because it's not cool to have streets that smell like crap, look like crap, and in general are covered in...crap. It's unsanitary. It's disrespectful. 'Kay? Homosexuality is okay because it's none of the above. Seems to me, though, that you're comparing homosexuals to crap in the street. Very nice of you. Again, good job being a bigot. Very classy. I bet when you see two dudes kissing you absolutely freak out and run away, don't you? I'd put money on it. There is something you have to face. Homosexuals do not hurt you. They don't hurt society. Infact, one could make a very strong argument (stronger than your flimsy debate) that homosexuality is actually good for society. It helps a lil' bit with population control. But of course, you religious zealots misunderstand the Bible and think it's STILL your job to populate the Earth even though God commanded only Adam to, not EVERYONE. That's why I can't look out my window on Sunday without seeing a gigantic train of families flooding into the church. One lady across the street from me has TEN CHILDREN, aged newborn to 20 years. Nice. Just admit it. Your only excuse is something the Bible says. It doesn't hurt anyone, it doesn't hurt you...It isn't responsible for the down-fall of society (religion is responsible for that), and it's just fine. Is it unnatural? Yes, because we reproduce with a male and female. Does that make it omgwtfwrong? No, it doesn't. Apparently, it's a genetic thing, some people think. If that's true, then they can't help it anyways. It's the equivalent of you pointing at someone with Downs Syndrome and saying "Haha, loser!" Grow up and stop thumping your Bible. You're going to ruin it.

It's always wondered me why people think thier perception of god or diety of choice is 'the one.' If they don't, then that religion will just fall apart. Religion was important in keeping societies together. Actually, the God of the Jew's was the first God to ever demand that you worship He and He alone, and hell, they don't even do that anymore. They worship Jesus. The entire religion is a farse and they all fail to see it. It's an absolute toss-up as to which religion, if any, are the right ones. Personally, I'm fond of the Greek stories. So I'll just say that those God's all created this and control it. Prove me wrong, guys. Prove me wrong. Religion isn't important for keeping societies together, either. It separates them. Look at the USA right now...We're split 30-70, Religious goofs to normal people who want actual important laws. Can you imagine, in any rational world, were abortion and homosexual marriage are the biggest freakin' issues in the nation? It's honestly a travesty. We have illegals hopping our boarders, which now are able to reap SSI benefits. We have a war going on...All this other actually IMPORTANT stuff and people care about dead fetus's and two gay guys' private lives. Freakin' amazing.