Tigra00

I ponder... If humans were not intelligent enough to write, would God still 'exsist'?

I saw a documentary that was pretty farfetched but that said God could an alien race from another planet. UFO's have been around for a very long time, Ezekiel even documents a could be UFO encounter in the Bible. However it basically said this Alien race populated this planet as in they created us, they will return for us. Really it's just supplementing God with Alien. But it was interesting. Also at the end of it it showed art work from throughout history of Jesus and Biblical drawing which seemed to have UFO's in them in some form or another. Heres the site with art on i googled it. http://www.dudeman.net/siriusly/ufo/art.shtml Yea...Sounds insane, but it's more plausible than God. The funny thing, I think, is how everyone who describes a "God-ly" encounter describes birhgt white lights...Everyone who describes an "Alien" encounter describes bright white lights aswell. :P

I was in 8th grade Home Ec. class and my teacher (literally insane, admits to being institutionalized, slapped a girl once, etc!) was freaking out screaming about World War 3 and stuff. I laughed at her and she gave me detention. I did not go. I win against the terrorists! :D ...Might have been 9th grade, though.

I took biology in Highschool and it was pretty easy. My friend told me it's pretty much the same course for biology 101 in college. :P I haven't gone to college just yet (this fall!) so I dunno'. I never got to take Chemistry in Highschool.

Ehhh...I think you'd be hard-pressed to find even a tree that can live to be that old, but I was talkin' more along the lines of...You know...Creatures. :P

Yea, whatever his name was. :lol:

I thought it would be important to point out, aswell, that Oxygen in high levels can kill you at certain pressures. Anyone living below sea-level wouldn't have lived longer, they would have died faster. Oxygen is a free-radical, which are bad for your body. It canreact with metals and superoxidize your blood which will attack fatty acid in your blood cells. Eventually, it'll form stuff like Nitric Oxide and harm your DNA directly. Not sure if it would absolutely effect anyone, as things like this usually effect scuba-divers and stuff, but like I said...Anyone under sea-level could apparently be done harm.

I've read the Bible. Why am I still not convinced? I know someone who was raised Christian, being told Jesus loved them, then read the Bible and now considers himself atheist. What you claimed happened was that we had to evolve to breathe without your "magic pixie dust" in the air, so yea, you're an evolutionist apparently. See what you did here? You ignored our scientific facts (not opinions, but facts) on the way the world works. You ignored them for what a 6,000 year old book said and said THAT is fact. Abraham was 960, and from there on they died younger and younger...So what? That's proof of God? That's proof that you're making stuff up out of a coincidence. Is it not possible that the writer of the Bible simply wanted Abraham to be considered "superior" and thus let noone be older than him while writing it? It is impossible, now AND at any time, for humans to be 960 years old. As far as I know of, nothing on Earth can reach that age.

So what you're saying is, you don't know what the air was composed of then, but it made us live longer. Now, there is less of that in the air and we've somehow, oh, I dunno'...evolved a way to breathe without it being present. My my, aren't you a budding little evolutionist! I didn't know you had it in you. But seriously - The whole "atmosphere made people live longer" stuff is bunk. It doesn't matter if magical pixies were in the atmosphere, you wouldn't live to 960 years old. Like Lionheart said, your cells stop reporducing at a certain point, and from that point on, you're screwed. How about this...Abraham WASN'T 960 when he died! :shock: It was just a story! Edit: Oh, and yes, we do know what the atmosphere was like before this "flood". No matter when the "flood" was (assuming it happened, it doesn't matter when), we have records. Ever heard of Amber? Solidified tree-sap? Yea, we've found lots of cool stuff in it...Ancient bugs, Misquitoes...Bee's...Oh, and even air bubbles. Guess what? No magic long-life dust! Only less oxygen in comparison from then to now, and we KNOW 100% that more oxygen doesn't = longer life. Ever seen someone hooked to an oxygen tank? Do they look healthier to you?

Please tell me where you got the information in the bolded area. And the "rules", like the stories, are meant to be guidance for the human race- they serve the same purpose. It's just common sense! If you believe the Bible is nothing but stories that are fabricated, then why is God all of a sudden real? That makes no sense. Defender: My reality is ACTUAL reality. Oddly enough, your reality is your own. Like I said, the math and science is against you, and math and science is how reality works. I've never seen an alien, no. I'm sure very few people have. However, many, many people have seen UFO's or just believe they're out there somewhere. I won't lie - Most UFO stuff is completely fake BS. But there is some that is real. You can tell it's real when the government gets involved and gives a reason for what people saw that is completely unplausible. You know, the whole "Planet Venus", "Swamp Gas", "Military Flares" (that amazingly hover for hours, hm?) kinda' stuff. Sadly, people who lies about seeing stuff have made it all seem like a giant conspiracy theory. You're probably laughing at me right now because you believe that same thing. However, it's still much more plausible than an all-knowing deity who apparently isn't all-knowing. Afterall, he didn't let us in on a lot of facts about the Universe. Besides that semi-speculation, scientists are all but positive that there is currently life on Mars. Right now. Is it intelligent? No. It's bacterial, but it's life nonetheless. If we can get some humans there, or better machines, we can drill the water and caves there and see what we come up with. The tempratures on Mars are not too extreme for life. Mars has an atmosphere which can produce lightning, thus it is able to produce light. That's all life is, afterall...Tiny junk and electricity. That's all we are...Junk and electricity. Just because we've become intelligent doesn't mean we're special in any way...It puzzles me why people think we are. Perhaps there are hundreds of planets with races even more intelligent than us. Are they any less special? No, but we have this "Lookitmei'mspeshul!" complex because some of us believe we were created. :-s I'm not giving Christians a hard time...Not trying to, anyways. My problem is that they talk as if it were cold-hard facts, and it's anything but. There has yet to be a single shred of proof towards God being real. Not a shred! But science we can prove. Evolution may not be proven, but it's absolutely not debunked. We can't be 100% certain it happened, but with what we know about science, I repeat, with what we KNOW about science, evolution did and is still happening. Science hasn't "proven" it happened because they can't. They can't go back in time. But everything we know about DNA and life itself today and in the past says it's a fact. The rest of what you said is pointless to answer, because you didn't say anything. You're arguing that since science is something we can use, that God made it. I'm saying that there's no God, and no way to prove it. You're completely skipping over that. I don't blame you, as a believer, you literally cannot ask yourself "what if God doesn't exsist?" and continue with that in mind, it's against your beliefs. You just can't do it without going back and solidifying your beliefs. I'll answer your questions, though they're stupid... 1. Define perfect. "Perfect" beings is a concept made by the Bible. God is considered perfect. Angels are aswell. Humans are not because we "sin". I don't believe in "sin". I believe some people do stuff they shouldn't do, but I don't believe some guy is writing is down in a book so he can spank us with it when we die and send us off to eternal fire. If God does exsist - I didn't choose him, he chose me. I didn't ask to be alive, yet he expects me to bow to him. That's not free-will, it's slavery. If I don't choose him, I burn eternally, even though I didn't choose to be born. That's another little one of God's falacies. He claims we're all free, but if we don't choose him, we are punished...Even though we didn't ask to participate. Hooray. 2. Nice grammar, uhhh...Again, define perfect? The only "perfect" thing we can make is a perpetual motion machine, and those are currently impossible due to friction. Why is this relevant? 3. Noone. Why is this relevant? Why does someone HAVE to create science? Why can it not just be? Afterall, people claim God "just was". Why can science not be "just here"? 4. Why do you put your faith in a book written 6,000 years ago by people with the half of modern IQ's? I put my faith in man (science, rather), because science is just science. It's just there, and it's provable. When something in science is considered a law, it never changes. It can't. It cannot be broken by a single atom in the entire universe. When we make a scientific breakthrough, it helps millions of people. When you pray, nothing happens. God helps noone. He talks to noone. He does nothing. He created us all and expects us to bow down or burn eternally, even when we didn't choose to come into exsistence...Even if we DISLIKE exsistence. Science is science, God is God. Science wins. Science is just cooler, too. Everything around us is science. We can see it. Noone has seen God, and none ever will. Everything God "does" is merely speculation because he nevr makes himself known...Do you know why that is? Guess. Maybe you should go read a science book. Everything didn't create itself. Science created it. Using the laws of science we know and love, everything worked together and over an extremely long period of time, came to be as we know it. We KNOW that mixing up the basic chemicals of Earth and passing electricity through them creates Amino Acids, for example. It also creates some chemicals harmful to life, apparently, but the general idea is that didn't effect life enough to make it impossible to be here today. Is that harder to believe that a deity who can't get his story straight? No, not really. You do not see God more everyday than you see science. You've never seen God. Look infront of you right now. A computer. Science, or God? Obviously God didn't put it there. Science did. You can use the logical falacy of "God makes everything possible!" all you want. It just doesn't matter. It's a dumb argument. Yes science is fact. Sometimes we're wrong right off the bat, but obviously it is revised into fact. Why is nothing in the Bible ever revised into scientific fact? Because it can't be. There's no proof. And please, name one scientist who found the Bible to be "proven right". Not some pseudo-scientist Christian, either. There's plenty of those. If the Bible proved God exsisted, noone would question it. Duh? Obviously you're wrong again. Seems you're just shoving your beliefs in here as fact... What does the atmosphere being different have to do with a boat being impossible to build, and all the animals being impossible to get on it? And why are you using science to prove a Bible story? I thought science was just a guess and the Bible was fact? Seems you're not so sure... We know the atmosphere was different, but that doesn't mean it could defy physics and logic. It just meant there was more or less of certain chemicals. WOW, Bible proved!... :-s And no, no amount of Oxygen in the atmosphere could allow someone to live to 960 years old. Proven. Scientific. Fact. They've done tests and proven that more oxygen doesn't make you live longer. Good arguement if you're a psuedo-scientist, but for real science, it's been debunked! As for the snake bite...I'm going to have to look that up for myself. Never heard of it, and I don't even see the relevance here, but it'd be interesting to see why or how that one worked out if you're not making it up.

Well, okay...Uhhh, people who believe in God take the Bible literally. They have to. If everything was just a metaphore, God would have to be aswell. Most of the Bible was written as serious "rules"...A very small portion is metaphorical.

If none of the stories can be taken literally...Then why is God's exsistence? Ask Christians if they think the stories are literal. They'll say yes. If they don't, they're saying the Bible is just a buncha' hoo-haa, and why follow God if his word is a bunch of fake stories? It is meant to be taken literally, except for select metaphores. Stories are not metaphores. I got to a Christian High School, with 1500 students. I know only one person there, including the faculty and pastors, who is a Fundamental Christian. Ironically, he's my AP Biology teacher. ...'Kay? That doesn't answer the question. If none of the stories are literal, then why is God literal? Why is God not a metaphore? I'd love to hear this one.

If none of the stories can be taken literally...Then why is God's exsistence? Ask Christians if they think the stories are literal. They'll say yes. If they don't, they're saying the Bible is just a buncha' hoo-haa, and why follow God if his word is a bunch of fake stories? It is meant to be taken literally, except for select metaphores. Stories are not metaphores.

What does my saying that have to do with reading a Bible? I've read it, and I'm not convinced. YOUR Reality: "Will never happen". Rational Reality: There are billions of stars PER GALAXY. There are billions of galaxies. Each star has a potential for planets around it. Statistically, it is impossible for there to not be life outside our solar system. People like to boast about how conditions have to be PERFECT for life to be able to form, and that the chances are so low that it just isn't possible. Well, why the hell not? What makes us so special? We weren't here at one time, now we are, and in 2 billion-ish years, our planet will be too hot to live on. Mars will be the same temprature Earth is now. Right now, Mars is freezing cold. My point is: Things change. If the placement wasn't there yesterday, it could be there today. Any planet with an atmosphere has the chance of supporting life if it's placement is right. I never once said we'd find life JUST to disprove the Bible. Heck, Our President right now is a Christian and it was his plan to put forward the work to find other planets capable of supporting life. He probably doesn't expect to find any, however. The fact is that the Bible says NOTHING about life anywhere but Earth. If we find some, it further slaps the Bible in the face and tells it to quiet down while the adults speak about things that are important. The Bible isn't important unless it is the literal word of a deity who will reward or punish us. You believe in your heart that it is, but I believe in my heart that it is not. The Bible is full of stories written by men who were, to today's standards, incredibley stupid. Things we know today to be completely false and make us go "What? That's dumb." are written as literal fact. We know for a fact, for example, that "Noah's Arc" couldn't have exsisted. It just couldn't have. There's no way you could build a boat that big and make it float. There's no way you could gather up 2 of each of the entire world's animals. There's no way that even if you COULD do these things, that Noah could have even BUILT this boat. The story was obviously written by someone with no knowledge of the REAL world. He only had knowledge of HIS world. How did animals over here in America get over to where he was building the boat? How did they get back? How about Australia? Other places? See, they didn't know America and these other places even exsisted. They wrote about what they knew at the time, and to them in seemed plausible. Now, if the Bible said that God flooded Noah's entire REGION, it would make the boat smaller (probably still impossible proportions, though) and the animal problem less...Of a problem. Of course, religious people use the logical falacy that God is infalible and can just make these things happen. Forget the fact that there's no evidence and we know it to be impossible - This is GOD, he can do it! So boring. I wish they could really come up with something more compelling. Trust me, if God seemed real, I'd be on that ship right away, because it'd be totally awesome to get the promised rewards. There are things like that in the Bible you can see everyday. I've thought to myself long and hard about all of them I've seen, and some I was showed, because let's face it - eternal damnation is no joke. But I've come to the conclusion that I'm not afraid, because the Bible is just a book of stories.

My girlfriend got in a huge argument with me one time because I told her our water was recycled from sewage. She swore up and down that would never happen. When I asked her where she thinks all the water comes from then, she said we always just have plenty. When I asked her what the sewage treatment plant 1 mile away was for then, she simply got mad and stopped talking to me for the rest of the day. Women are like sewage water sometimes. Full of...Heeeey ladies. What's up?

Although I agree that a large percent of people claiming to be Christians don't practice their religion very devoutly, I am absolutely certain you don't know what qualifies as being a Christian when someone is polling the entire world. If someone answered a survey and said "Yes, I believe in God" they could be a multitude of religions, including being a Muslim. Do you honestly think a pollster who is important enough to release a statistic like that isn't going to make sure that someone who believes in God isn't perhaps, another religion that believes in God? You're right about a large group of Christians not practicing their faith, but it seems to me that you're just making up facts about when people are polled about their faith. Um, I said that they would be asked WHAT God they believe in...Otherwise it's a worthless survey. It'd find that 4 billion people believe in "God", when there are several. Then again, all God's could be considered the same, just with different names. Christian's obviously copied Hindu's, and Muslim's even more obviously copied Christians, so it really doesn't matter, you're all worshipping the same thing. :lol: And I'm very unsuprised that Christ came in 3rd or 4th in the to-be-followed list. Like I said, there was a dude who did EXACTLY what Christ is said to have done in the Hindu faith (before Christ), and Muhammed did the same thing as Christ...Yea yea yea, guys, say they're different just because the stories are changed. They're still the same thing. They came here, did a buncha' groovy crap, died, came back and went to heaven where they're now revered as deity's. Fun fact: The first religion we know of is Paganism/Druidism, something that Christianity claims to be evil in nature. Why does it claim this? Because a few thousand years back, they wanted Pagans to convert. Why is it a wonder that some people just DON'T BUY anything the Bible says? Is it mere coincidence that it condemns everything that came before it? Is it just a brain-fart on the writers part that wrote "I promise you all these things will come before the passing of this generation" in the Bible, speaking about the end of the world? That was also thousands of years ago. Personally, I'm more interested in how many people are going to still believe this junk in 10,000 years when we've discovered other-worldly life-forms (the Bible says nothing about that, mind you, it would further disprove the Bible) and are spreading ourselves out and about in the galaxy, finding other civilizations who have their own "God" stories. I really, really am interested in that. I wish I could live that long just to see how many are still bowing to a statue of a white guy that didn't exsist...That being Jesus, who was obviously of Arab descent if anything. He had more of a chance of being black than white. :P

Know what I find cute? When people use that whole "There are 2 billion Christians in the world..." thing. The simple fact is that there isn't. Are there a lot? Yes. Hundreds of millions, surely. But 2 billion? Absolutely not. You see, when survey's like that are done, they ask the person if they believe in God, and which God that would be. MOST people, if asked and aren't sure if they do or not, will say yes, they do believe, and they believe in the Christian God. If someone believes in God, but doesn't practice, they'll just say "Yes, I believe there is a God." That doesn't make you a Christian. Christians actually practice their religion, they don't say "Yes, I believe in God." and then go have premarital sex. Most people may belive in God, but simply don't give a damn to follow the "rules". Why? Because the rules suck and they make life suck. You can't do anything fun. As the saying goes - If it feels good, stop, and never do it again. ...So that makes people Christians? Believing in God? No. How about the 'leaders' of the faith like to inflate their numbers.

You, uh...Spelled it right.

You didn't read the good parts, it answers those arguments. What did they say, they ole' two wrongs don't make a right crap? Humans are twisted creatures. If someone killed, say, your wife (assume you had one), you may say right now that you wouldn't want them killed, but when it happened, you'd put in a request to be the executioner yourself. :P Like I said, rotting is prison is way worse than dying, but there's that little thing called "Wrath" that people love so much...

I believe the people behind Enron are worse than Ted Bundy (no, not the shoesalesman from TV. He used a shoehorn once, but I won't tell you how). I think that capital punishment as a system of punishment is based on an irrationally primordial thirst for revenge. If you are so eager to hurt a human being, I'd say destroying his mind by locking him up away from everything he loves and cares about is a lot more efficient than a quick death. If you spend money on death row, he basically costs just as much as he would if he'd be in a normal jail cell. If you don't spend money on death row by executing him immediately, you're denying him the right to fight for his life in court. Either way, there is always a chance that you could convict an innocent man. ...The guy on the TV show was Al Bundy. :lol: The Enron guys hurt other people. They deserved prison. Tax evasion, for example, hurts noone. It's such a tiny amount of money, relatively speaking, that it just doesn't matter.

37047734 How immature of us.

Killing someone does not cost more than keepig them for life. A life sentance, despite it's name, is 60 years. That's 6 million dollars. I've heard before that killing someone costs 2+ millions dollars, but there is a very easy step to cut that down - Stop being PC pansies. You don't have to drag these guys out in the street and let people stone them to death, but how about not putting them on "Death Row" for 10 years? What the hell is the point of that? I'm almost positive that is part of the cost, because Potassium Nitrate doesn't cost 2 million dollars per shot, and the last meal isn't at a 5-star resturaunt. Better yet, skip the Potassium Nitrate and go straight for the ole' rope and a bucket method. No really, I'm serious. People think it's so very cruel to hang someone, but if you watched Saddam's execution, it's quick and painless. Lethal injection takes a long time, and sometimes doesn't even work right away and they struggle to breathe. A properly-placed noose will snap the spinal cord and the executed party will have died instantly. Or you know, just keep wasting everyone's money keeping animals alive in cages. If you're going to act as if you were a wild animal, perhaps you should be treated as one and put down swiftly. What we do with them is the equivalent of poking a wolf in a cage with a stick. People are going to think I'm deranged and harsh, but really - Do you enjoy keeping these people alive with your tax dollars? Like I said, if they're going to act like an uncivilized beast, they can be dealt with like one - Killed and...Well, not eaten, of course...Perhaps just bury them. :P The thing you have to remember is that people on Death Row are not there because they stole candy. They are there because they're rapists, murderers and the like. Those people do not deserve to be coddled like they did nothing wrong. ...But then again, I'm a firm believer that people who commit non-violent crimes shouldn't even have to go to prison, because they're not a threat, but meh. I always thought it was a place for dangerous people. If you're a threat to others, you go there. I can't see the general thought process making it a good idea to put someone in prison because they, I dunno'...Didn't pay taxes. That's not violent, it's not a danger, just garner their wages and make them pay - With interest.

Didn't "yo mama" jokes die like...5 years ago? At least?

I stopped reading Amnesty International's reason after the first sentance. It's a denial of human rights? Uhhh, yea? And the people it is imposed upon are denied their rights because they denied other human's their rights. Eye for and Eye...Sometimes, two wrongs do make a right. Anyone who had someone they loved killed by some psycho would immediately want the guilty party to be killed. If you do not; Congratulations, you are Jesus Christ incarnate. For the rest of us who are not water-walking deity's, we'll surely want justice. Personally, I feel them sitting in prison and rotting is MUCH more harsh, but it also costs me money (Prisoner's cost $100,000/year to keep, coming from taxes), so I'd rather that person be killed.

If the guy actually raped a child, then I'd be concerned...But he 'just' downloaded illegal material. If there is no room, then who would you rather have on the streets? A murderer? Rapist? I think I'll take that guy walkin' around. :P They could always let someone out who is in Prison for a stupid reason that doesn't deserve prison time...Like tax fraud or something stupid like that. Prison is a place for dangerous people, not dishonest people. :P