Tigra00

Last time I checked, existence wasn't subjective. We would still be worshiping a God - the idea of a God precedes writings of a God. I'm not saying that. I'm saying that existence is objective, and irrelevant to what we think about existence. If I write about a unicorn that exists in the dining room I am typing this out on right now, the unicorn doesn't appear. It doesn't matter how much I write about the unicorn in my dining room, it's not appearing. Existence is irrelevant to thought. And I know you're going to say "you just can't comprehend it, you're close minded, illogical, blah blah blah". But no, until you refute the point I made that existence is separate from thought, you are the ignorant one. I have provided multiple examples that you have neither quoted or refuted. Quit saying the same things over and over again. Everybody has basic beliefs. Even you. When was the last time I used the Bible to prove God's existence? Where have you been? Where is my circular logic? In this entire argument I have never stated that God exists. This argument isn't even about the existence of God. This argument is about whether or not writing some empty words on some empty paper somehow brings a being into an objective existence. And I think the answer to the argument is clear - you just don't see it. I'm not trying to say that like...You snap your fingers, and it automatically exists because your fingers were snapped. I'm saying it exists to us. There is no proof God even exists. He's just an idea. The idea is what makes him exist or not, considering that there is no proof. If God reached his hand from the sky and flicked me in the back of the head, then surely my argument would be pointless, because God would infact exist. But until then, he's merely an idea, and we made that idea exist by writing about it. And so the question is - If God was never written about, would he exist to us? And the answer is no. Another way to look at it is to think "What if he WAS written about, but it was VERY different from what we read today?" Would that God then exist to us? You have a great argument, but only if we were 100% sure God exists. Not even you can be that sure. Noone on this Earth can be more than 99.9% sure. For everything, there is always that .1% that makes it impossible or possible. Like my "waving atoms" example...There is a 99.99~(to infinity :P)% that they would never move together to make the statue wave, but there's always that chance. For you, there is a .1% chance God does not exist, for me there is a .1% chance that he does. If God DOES exist, he surely went through a lot of trouble putting evidence that he didn't exist all over the damn place...But of course, a lot of religious people will shrug that off saying it's the work of Satan, which is circular reasoning and an entire different, yet same story in itself. ;)

Actually, according to quantum mechanics, matter only exists because we know it is there. Is that the same with God? Im a Christian, and I think most people would agree that Christianity is the most persecuted major religion (Im not going to go into Satanism here...) It is nowhere near the most persecuted religion. It's the most wide-spread and accepted, actually. It may SEEM you're persecuted because Christianity is pretty much the forefront of the Jewish/Christian God's religion. People question you because said religion makes no sense. Christians themselves even persecute from within their "clique". Take Jehova's Witnesses - My girlfriend was raised as one. She's absolutely normal. The only thing they do that is "different" from Christians is that they DON'T accept blood transfusions, because Christ said that the life is in the blood, and therefore, if you accept blood, you're mixing your life with another person's life. That's the only major difference. They still teach the love and acceptance of Jesus, but they are labeled cultists by the Christian faith as a whole - Why? My girlfriend (and her mother who raised her with the beliefs) are so far from cultists it isn't even funny. They don't run around knocking on doors asking to convert you, but even if they did, so what? Christians do you one better and invade your TV trying to convert you. There's no difference. Christians do a great deal of persecuting and forcing their beliefs on others like that. Just yesterday I read a story about a rape victim who was perscribed the "Morning After" pill, and we all know what that is for. A nurse, who was Christian, then refused to give the woman the second pill, because it was against her religion. So? And was she going to raise the bastard seed of rape? I don't think so - Give the woman the pill and stop trying to be a martyr. You guys have it good. Feel sorry for Muslims, because they're the new 1800's black people. You're seeing it already...Muslim's being beaten for their beliefs because of the 9/11 attacks. Should they be beaten in response? No way. But at the same time, Muslims will call themselves martyr's if they are, and that's just stupid. How about this for a change - Some stupid guy beat you up. You're not a martyr, he's just dumb. Sounds good to me. :P

Oh, I never implied you didn't believe in Dinosaurs. You just believe that God created them. But the fact, yes, fact, is that Dinosaurs and man were not created together. They couldn't have been. If the Bible said that God created certain things at different times, then of course God would still be plausible. But it says everything was created at once, soooo. Like I said - Early people didn't friggin' know about dinosaurs or early man because they were buried 20 feet beneath their feet. And yes, Insane, that means they did not exist to them. Does something REALLY not exist if you can't see it? Well, while you can't prove it does, logical thinking says that yes, it does exist. However, if you can't see it, it doesn't exist to you. Did atoms exist to us before we knew they were real? No. They just did not exist to us at all. After we discovered, they were written about and are now taken to be true because we've seen them. God was written about, and people took that as factual. Nevermind the fact that noone has ever seen God (so says the Bible, while also having many stories about people who've seen God, gg contradictions), if God was never written about, he would not exist to us. Or perhaps if instead of God being written about, the same people wrote about my Oogle Monkey from Gonka instead. Now look what you'd be worshipping today. An Oogle Monkey. The logic isn't "does something REALLY exist because we don't see it", it's "would something still exist and be Omnipotent if it were never written about?" and you can't answer that question due to your beliefs. You've proved it here over and over. If the Bible was NEVER written, God would not exist to us. You would not be worshipping him today. You COULDN'T be. You can't just say "My God is Omnipotent, so even if he wasn't written about, he'd still exist." That's...not how it works. That's circular logic, which is a fallacy. Religion itself is circular logic, by definition. Noone can change that. Until people stop saying "The Bible says God exists, and the Bible must be right since it is the revealed word of God, so God exists.", all religion will be is circular logic. Until there is a cold-hard FACT in there somewhere, you're not actually coming to any conclusion. If your University papers are so revering (and please, anyone with the brain power to study and skip the parties can pass University), you would think you'd know that. However, I believe that religion is a handicapped for you. Perhaps you are very intelligent...But then when it comes to religion, you believe in it and can only give circular logic as proof, which makes you seem stupid. That's one reason I don't believe in God. There is no proof. So what, Jesus existed. So what, geographical locations existed. That does not prove that EVERYTHING in creation goes against scientific things we know to be factual. Again with that word factual, which is absolutely is. Which brings me to Defender - Your theory makes no sense. See, this is why I don't question scientists unless it makes no sense. These guys put a lot of work into their findings and don't publish stuff unless they know what they're talking about. What you're saying is that entire dinosaur skeleton's were pushed by water and placed back together on the other side of the world. I don't know what the chances of that happening really are, but it's got to be the same chances as a group of atoms in the arm of a statue moving in unison and making it look as if the statue is waving. That's ENTIRELY possible, but you'd have to had started 13 billion years ago writing 0's and you still wouldn't be done. So, 1:1000^83659863598265...A bigger number than that. I'm just giving a huge example. :lol: Plus, you'd have to take into effect that MANY skeletons have done the same thing...So basically, if that happened, the chances are so low that you could write 0's for trillions of years and never be done. In other words, it isn't happening, and didn't happen. It isn't just dinosaur's bones they found, it's also the rock types in which they laid beneath. You believe it to be coincidence that where scientists believed Pangea to fit together, there are the same rock types? Eastern South America is the exact same rock structure as Western Africa, for example. The dinosaurs could once freely roam an entire single continent, and there is proof of that. You'd be better off saying "The Flood cut Pangea into seperate parts. Praise God." than what you're saying. It's circular logic, but at least it isn't statistically impossible (though, impossible all the same). Does noone find it odd that the Bible takes place entirely in one area of the Earth? Quite a small area, too. Does anyone have a guess why? Yes, this is when religious people claim that it is "Holy land", and I say "No...". It's because people didn't know anywhere else existed. They couldn't write about far-away lands if they weren't SURE they existed. They couldn't write about anything they weren't sure was true or not. EXCEPT God. You can't, and never will, see God. That's the only thing they could write about without knowing it existed. Anyways, nothing in the Bible happens in North America...South America...Australia...Asia...Russia...Europe...Just in the Israel-Egypt middle east area. Now, you can say "So? That just happens to be where it happened...No big deal." And you'd be right. However, do you not find it odd that for 40 days and 40 nights, Noah was afloat on the ENTIRE Earth, made up of water. Know where he landed? IN THE SAME DAMN GENERAL AREA. Um?! Floating for 40 days and he went almost nowhere? If you get in a boat, on the ocean, you WILL end up thousands of miles away. You won't just sit in the same few hudred miles. You'd expect that Noah might have landed SOMEWHERE early people didn't know about, but no...Of course, once again, he lands in an area they knew existed. What's my point? My point is that these people were not messengers of God...They were humans. They wrote only what they knew about, and nothing else existed to them. It is impossible, even TODAY, for us to gather up 2 of every animal in the world and put them all on a boat. We'd fail to gather them up, for one, and second, there isn't a boat big enough. Not even God's righteous hand could make 2 of every animal in the world COME to us and get on our impossible-to-build boat. Nevermind the fact that Noah landed in the same middle-eastern area, yet somehow, there are still animals in North America, South America, Australia (you get the point) that is land that Noah has never even seen. He would have had to go and put those there. He didn't, because the place did not exist. It is factual to say that the world has *never* flooded on a global scale.

I'd recommend actually WRITING things down while you read them. I noticed a lot when I was in school that if I was told or read something, I'd forget it right away. But if I wrote it, I'd remember it. That's why I always got A's in history (we had to write notes on EVERYTHING) and got C's in math (never wrote a single note, can't remember ANY formula's. :P). But you're not studying for school, so I dunno'. Write important facts and stuff down is all I'm saying. Helps you retain info. :P

I see only one solution. Nuke Australia. No no, hear me out you crazy aussies. Don't be angry. They're special WATER nukes. WATER! Great idea, right? I know. Afterall...When Hydrogen and Oxygen fuse...Boom! Water! And you guys have plenty of Oxygen there, right? Of course you do. All we have to do now is send hydrogen bombs over and BAM! The sky will rain fir--Water. Yes, water. Yes. ...Or just recycle your damn toilet water like the rest of the civilized world. :P It's the same thing. It's only gross when you think about it. But if you see how well it's filtered, boiled, tested, etc, you really wouldn't care. They're not going to put you in any danger. :P

Oh come on. Rattlesnake bites aren't THAT bad. :o

Yea, I saw it on TV a longggg time ago. Couple years ago. I really have no idea, I've been googling it and can't find anything yet. I'm 100% sure I'm not just talkin' crap though. :P I never said I don't believe in Jesus. I merely question and theorize. If Jesus and God truely are deity's, that would be awesome, because the rewards promised are great. However, all evidence points to God being made-up, and Jesus being a phoney of some sort. The Bible was written so long ago...You really can't blame them for writing what they wrote. They didn't know about dinosaurs. They didn't know about early man (which is even more damning than dinosaurs, I dare say), they didn't know about the Universe. They just didn't know. Now *we* know and we can choose to say "You know what? I believe that's all made up, because I'm looking at the FACTS of the world and it's all right in front of me." and that is better than religion. We can actually see it. Way cool. :thumbsup: The hardest thing to believe is that God would entrust the most important text EVER to be written into the hands of humans, which he knows are imperfect, sinful, story-telling all-around-failures. The 10 Commandments were STRAIGHT from the mouth of God, and even those were jotted down (well, you know...pounded, really...) by a human. It's like...God is Omnipotent...But he hasn't wrote a damn letter of his word. Human's are bound to screw something up, and usually intentionally to make it sound better. We're dumb like that.

As it is found naturally, it shouldn't be bad for you, but excessive amounts could be. Use it in moderation and you should be fine. (If you choose to take this information you wave any legal liabilities I might me liable for. :uhh: :lol: :P ) Did you know your brain, every night, releases a chemical called DMT that is like taking acid, only a bagillion times worse? It induces REM sleep. Taking DMT (you can extract it from pretty much everything, like grass...Yea, lawn clippings...) while awake makes you see some crazy insane stuff. Not everything natural is good. :P Edit: Apparently Adam007 already mentioned DMT...I didn't read it at the time. :P

It doesn't matter if he sounds sane. Jesus wrote exactly nothing in the Bible himself. Nothing. People wrote ABOUT him. These people could be considered biased. If Jesus believed he was the son of God, truely, for whatever reason, he could have made others believe the same things. Jesus may have believed it SO much that he actually said extremely wise things. Not all crazy people are stupid. Infact, most of them are highly intelligent. Plus, he was a religious man...Obviously he's going to say something inspirational. Most of them do. Edit: Just thought of somethin'... It's like how the church itself lies to make things seem real. Ever heard of that stupid vial of "Blood" they carry around and show people, and it seems solidified, but when you touch it (thus warming it) it liquifies? They claim it is either a Saint's blood, or Jesus's blood, I forget. Either way, it's bogus. You can make it yourself at home if you wish. I don't remember the stuff you need, but I saw it on TV many years ago. And how about that shroud of Turin that was proven fake? They still hold that peice of junk sacred. Why? Because it gives "evidence". And they need all they can get. As if there was any doubt that thing was fake anyways? It has the face of a modern-day Jesus nearly painted on it. It's a fact that Jesus was not the creepy looking white man we all see today. He had to of been Arabic.

I just find it funny what people will do in the name of religion is all. Kill, die, skip things in life, acts like pompous jerks for no reason other than a belief...That kinda' thing. The evidence on this very Earth points directly to creationism - And not by a deity. Creationism, as-in we were created by our damned selves. By nature. Evolution was an after-effect, and should also be taken as fact, due to the evidence. Religious people like to tell us non-believers to just "go read the facts" - I ask why do they not do the same? The Bible says nothing about SO MUCH of Earth's history that we KNOW to be fact that it just can't be taken as a credible source of anything other than geographical locations of the middle-east circa 6,000 years ago and up. That's not even a blink of an eye compared to how long we've ACTUALLY been here. Here's a fun little fact...Some of the same species of dinosaur can be found on different continents. They had NO WAY to get there other than through the Earth being one continent; Pangea. When it started to split, they were stuck there. Now...What does that mean? To logical thinkers and scientists, it means "Holy wow! A lot of scientific work must've went into that to find that out! That's amazing!"...To religious people, it means "God put them there. End of story. Praise God." ...Religious people are boring. The actual Earth's history is way more exciting than God's version of history. Can you imagine the forces our Earth has working inside it that could make and entire continent crumble and split apart? It's happening right now in Africa. It has been for the last 500 million years at 1 inch per year. It's a 182 mile long fault across the top of the Horn of Africa. In millions of years, it will sever Africa into two parts and one island. That's amazing, and it's proof that all of our science DOESN'T go to waste and should always be taken seriously. Getting too off-topic, just wanted to share that. I think it's an awesome display of how stuff really works.

It depends on whats in your tap water. The tap water in our town, for example, has arsenic in it! I still drink it, but what the hell? :P Places with well water or heavy chlorinated water, though, I wouldn't drink. That's nasty.

Question: What makes Oogle Monkey from Gonka anymore Cartoonish than God from Heaven? Is it because he has the word "Monkey" in his name, thus you pictures a clown-suit wearing primate? I really want to know why MY character is "Silly" and yours is "Omnipotent, powerful and factual". If "Oogle Monkey" is too "silly" for your liking...We'll call him Anon instead. He was a greek philosopher...Nothing funny about that. There isn't more to it than I am seeing. I'm fully aware that Jesus was a real person. Indeed, he was! The question isn't "Was he real?" it's "Was he the son of a deity?" that needs an answer. Do you believe him just because he said he was? Lots of people say they are Jesus. Noone believes them. Ah - but Jesus performed miracles, you will say. Yes, and if a modern magician claimed to be Jesus, surely he would fool SOMEONE, right? Afterall, someone like Kris Angel performs some pretty weird stuff that makes you go "Huh? Wait, how?"...If he claimed to be Jesus, someone would probably believe him. Is it possible Jesus was just a really smart dude who was good at tricking people? Sure. Is it possible Jesus was just a completely random insane dude and his followers lied about these miracles? Absolutely. Afterall, there have been MANY modern people who have been deemed "insane" and have had many followers. People believe ANYTHING if they want to bad enough. And is it possible Jesus was who he said he was? Yea it is. That doesn't change the fact that, to me, the Bible is an unreliable source. Yes, I said it. It's not reliable. It contradicts itself many times, and one is enough to make you see it obviously isn't the DIRECT inspired word of an omnipetent deity. The church also has MANY scriptures that they've deemed "unreleasable" to the public. THAT is unnerving. The direct word of God...Being censored. Listen, if God exsists, I don't need to join some cult to be a part of that. Don't get to up on your religion - they're ALL cults in their own ways. The very definition of cult is a group of fanatical people. They don't have to steal money and kill people to be a cult. Though I do find it odd that Christians see it as "okay" to drink and eat what represents human blood and flesh. That's creepy. Jesus' or not. Well, if Jesus is real, which you have claimed and accepted he is, then the Bible writing about him is not something just trying to get a sale out. Its a book of reality and the events taken place thereof. Sure, people could have lied in the Bible and said Jesus healed people.. but then why would Jesus Die? I know for a fact that if I was a magician, and suddenly had to die for my false ways of deception, I would be running for the hills. Anyman with common sense would, anyways. Are you saying that Jesus was a master of deception and illusion? I can understand why he said "love everyone then!" shocking! :shock: Honestly, listen to yourself talk. You put the bible off as a Fictional Book, when even if you don't take the content within seirously, you should atleast take it as seirously to a Historical Level. You just put it off like a child's play toy that makes abo[bleep]ely no sense. I have no idea why Jesus or the Disciples would die for "nothing" if they were deceptive con artists in the name of God. I'm sure they would take their money and run. Besides that, you just don't "know" deceptive attacks and tricks inless it comes from someone else that teachs you. I'm sure his poor mom taught him all he knows. I'm sure Jesus didn't use his time to sit down and write "how to fool the people part 1". You really need to sit down and think why would people go to extreeme measures, such as scraficing their life for God.. Instead, you just say "fictional.." and walk on by. Thats very closed minded. ~Defender~ I can answer all the above questions easily. 1.) I never denied the historical facts of the Bible. The Bible is absolutely a historical record, and has been proven to be so many times over. A lot of Christians take this as proof of God being real - Why? It's the equivalent of me seeing a guy screaming that he is Jesus outside of Wal-mart (HAVE BEFORE! :lol:) and then saying God is real because Wal-mart is an actual place. Yes, Sodom And Gomorrah existed. Yes, Jesus existed. Yes, the Red Sea exists! The questions are not "Do these places exist?", it's "Were they acted upon by a devine being, or was it something explainable (by today's knowledge) and people had no explaination (then), so thought it MUST be devine?" That is the question. 2.) Jesus being not who he said he was is completely plausible. How many people claim to be Jesus these days? Tons. How many of them do you think would die believing that? Many. I'm sure the mentally ill ones would surely do it. If these people believe in God and Jesus, they'll go to Heaven no matter what they say. Same goes for Jesus. He was a Jew. He believed in God. No matter what he said, he'd therefore go to Heaven. He said he was the Messiah, and if he denied it later, they probably would have killed him for blasphemy ANYWAYS. :lol: If he was some crazy dude and was familiar with the Jewish religion (he obviously was), he could have easily said he was the Messiah; and even believed it. Of course I'm speculating. Jews, as a whole, however, don't speculate. They believe Jesus was NOT the Messiah. They don't worship him, and they don't believe in him as anything more than a man who claimed to be (and apparently lied?) their Messiah. They are still waiting for him to come. WHY they don't believe it was Jesus, I couldn't tell you...But they do not. You would think that people who believe in the same God would also believe in the same Messiah, but *Shrug*. Apparently Jesus's proof wasn't good enough for the very followers of a religion based around his father. *Boggle*

Question: What makes Oogle Monkey from Gonka anymore Cartoonish than God from Heaven? Is it because he has the word "Monkey" in his name, thus you pictures a clown-suit wearing primate? I really want to know why MY character is "Silly" and yours is "Omnipotent, powerful and factual". If "Oogle Monkey" is too "silly" for your liking...We'll call him Anon instead. He was a greek philosopher...Nothing funny about that. There isn't more to it than I am seeing. I'm fully aware that Jesus was a real person. Indeed, he was! The question isn't "Was he real?" it's "Was he the son of a deity?" that needs an answer. Do you believe him just because he said he was? Lots of people say they are Jesus. Noone believes them. Ah - but Jesus performed miracles, you will say. Yes, and if a modern magician claimed to be Jesus, surely he would fool SOMEONE, right? Afterall, someone like Kris Angel performs some pretty weird stuff that makes you go "Huh? Wait, how?"...If he claimed to be Jesus, someone would probably believe him. Is it possible Jesus was just a really smart dude who was good at tricking people? Sure. Is it possible Jesus was just a completely random insane dude and his followers lied about these miracles? Absolutely. Afterall, there have been MANY modern people who have been deemed "insane" and have had many followers. People believe ANYTHING if they want to bad enough. And is it possible Jesus was who he said he was? Yea it is. That doesn't change the fact that, to me, the Bible is an unreliable source. Yes, I said it. It's not reliable. It contradicts itself many times, and one is enough to make you see it obviously isn't the DIRECT inspired word of an omnipetent deity. The church also has MANY scriptures that they've deemed "unreleasable" to the public. THAT is unnerving. The direct word of God...Being censored. Listen, if God exsists, I don't need to join some cult to be a part of that. Don't get to up on your religion - they're ALL cults in their own ways. The very definition of cult is a group of fanatical people. They don't have to steal money and kill people to be a cult. Though I do find it odd that Christians see it as "okay" to drink and eat what represents human blood and flesh. That's creepy. Jesus' or not.

Irrelevant. Not even close to irrelevance...If it were never written, does God still exist? Does he? If it was never written to be passed on from person to person, does he still exist? It seems irrelevant to you because you have this cloud around you that disallows you from asking weither or not God actually exists. You've been raised to believe, nay, to know that he does. But if the Bible was never written, does God still exist? That's a pretty good question, actually. You just can't answer it. I think your brain just can't comprehend how putting a pen to paper is irrelevant to a transcendent being existing. Like seriously; someone writes "God did this", and all of a sudden God exists? Give me a break. Just because someone has the idea of God it doesn't mean that God exists and just because someone doesn't have the idea of God it doesn't mean that God doesn't exist. I honestly can't believe you don't understand how thought is irrelevant to existence. And I can't believe you still don't get it... God does nothing today. Nothing. Not a thing! People SAY he does stuff for them because they have faith in him, and then something good happens. That isn't necessarily God doing something, it's just something happening. God's exsistence proven? Hardly. If the Bible was NEVER written, God would not exist. How could he? The existence of something is based 100% on weither or not people can see it and know about it. That's where God's get their power. I have a God. His name is Oogle Monkey. He's an Oogle Monkey and rules over the kingdom of Gonka. I have never, before this moment, written about Oogle Monkey. I believe in him fully now that I have written about him. He's real to me. I have a picture of him in my mind and I imagine the things he can do. And let me tell you, he can do great things. Like backflips. But, before I wrote about him, he was just an idea in my head that didn't exist. Noone knew about him. Not even me. I just MADE him exist to myself and others. Now he exists to me because I made him real, and trust me, if I wrote a book promising rewards and punishments for not believing in him...Others would follow. You will, of course, think that's the dumbest thing you've ever heard, because you cannot comprehend God NOT existing. The Bible says he's always existed, and you believe the Bible is his word, therefore you just can't think that way. You're just not capable. Perhaps it is Philosophy that goes over your head. I do not blame you.

GOOD Christians are not persecuted at all. Anywhere. They practice their faith and don't tell others they're going to perish in enteral hell-fire for not doing that same. They do right by what the Bible says and stick to it, unswaying. They are good people. People like you, who tell people they're going to Hell, are not good people. You're not good Christians. You have zero right to tell me where I'm going. Look it up it your precious book. No really, just look! It says only God can judge me. Are you God? No, I'm seriously asking, because you seem to think he talks to you, so you're either completely skitzo, or you're God. Should I pity you as you pity me, or should I bow? Just wondering. But you know me. I'm very Jesus-like. I forgive you. Jesus will too. Afterall, the Bible does say that the only unforgivable sin is denying the exsistence of the Holy Spirit. So obviously, my seat in Hell isn't as solid as you thought. ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¢â¬ÅTruly I say unto you, All their sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they utter: but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin: because they say, ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¹ÃâHe has an unclean spiritÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢.ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬ÃâÃ

Irrelevant. Not even close to irrelevance...If it were never written, does God still exist? Does he? If it was never written to be passed on from person to person, does he still exist? It seems irrelevant to you because you have this cloud around you that disallows you from asking weither or not God actually exists. You've been raised to believe, nay, to know that he does. But if the Bible was never written, does God still exist? That's a pretty good question, actually. You just can't answer it. And Barihawk, that wasn't flaming of spelling. That was me actually committing the unforgivable sin of typoing. :lol:

Christian...Muslim...Atheist... Does it really matter anymore? Noone can ever keep their crap straight and just end up beating the hell out of people in a furious rage over their own stupidity. Allahu Akbar, indeed.

The only picture I could post describing me would be considered pornographic. Think "Planet after Saturn". Now think what that means. Yes, you got it.

It's not too hard to NOT insult a country...If the person who writes it can do it, why can George Bush not do it? Oh...Right...That whole not being intelligent enough thing... And yes I'm aware Presidents don't write their stuff. They're too busy taking vacations and what'n.

We shall go no further. If this turns into any more flames I'll do what's needed. ...Give us all popcorn?

You keep persisting in drawing a parallel between the ability to articulate ideas clearly, and intelligence, and there is no link. You just contradicted yourself. You're trying to draw a line between them, I'm saying they are one in the same. I can't remember, for everything in me, the last time I heard of a mentally challenged person come up with a good solution to the world's problems, for instance. Obviously, if you're not intelligent, you're not going to be able to speak as if you are. George Bush isn't intelligent, and it shows through his speaking. Could it be nerves? Yea sure, the first time. Some people are just stupid. That surely can't be helped. sure bush may stumble on a word or two, but havnt you ever noticed when he actually says the word correctly it is as clear as day? honestly i still think it would be hilarious to see you speak in a press conference in front of the whole world (i will be the person in the back making fun of your speech) I'd be happy to go infront of the world and speak. I'd do you one better and even write my own things to say, unlike some of our less intelligent public speakers. Like George Bush! :)

For the last time...Religion is NOT the original source of "morality". To say so is the same as saying "Hello, I'm an idiot. Please hit me with a stick and laugh at me." Egyptians. Did they follow the Bible? Hell no. They enslaved Jews and worshipped their own God's. Before the Bible was written, do you know what Egyptians did to theives? Punished them. Murderers? Punished them. Any crime-committing-general-baddies? Punished them. Look, humans just KNOW when something is not right. It has nothing to do with the Bible. People in Africa who've never heard of the Bible know that, "Hey, killing that dude was way wrong. You need to be punished." Usually people's punishment fits the crime. If you kill someone, you'll be killed. The Bible has nothing to do with morality being "invented". Morality was never invented. We just KNOW what's right or wrong. We understand that when you kill someone, they're gone. And when they're gone, they're gone forever...And that was a horrible thing to do. Pre-historic man buried their dead because they understood what death was. Animals who murder amongst themselves are sometimes thrown from their social group. Creatures just know what's wrong and what's right. The Bible did nothing but put what we already know into words.

You keep persisting in drawing a parallel between the ability to articulate ideas clearly, and intelligence, and there is no link. You just contradicted yourself. You're trying to draw a line between them, I'm saying they are one in the same. I can't remember, for everything in me, the last time I heard of a mentally challenged person come up with a good solution to the world's problems, for instance. Obviously, if you're not intelligent, you're not going to be able to speak as if you are. George Bush isn't intelligent, and it shows through his speaking. Could it be nerves? Yea sure, the first time. Some people are just stupid. That surely can't be helped.

Surely you people cannot be serious. He's nervous so he mispronounces words, fumbles entire points and generally sounds like he's completely uneducated? I get nervous when speaking in front of people too. Everyone does. But I don't go from articulate to moron because I'm nervous.

Thanks for your amazing opinion. It may shock you that just because he speaks very articulately and clearly with a Southern accent does not make him [developmentally delayed]. In fact, it's fair to say that he has had better education than you will receive in your entire life. Which George Bush are you speaking of? The one in the white house doesn't have an articulate bone in his body. Everytime I see him speak, I literally chuckle at him for sounding like a fumbling middle schooler. There are entire websites dedicated to how badly he sucks at speaking. The Southern Accent has nothing to do with it. I would like to see you speak in front of the whole world... It's really, really not very hard. He even has it all laid out in front of him. Whenever he insists on not reading what's infront of him, he says something stupid. There are some people who only get into college because their daddy has money. This man is one of them.