Well you have to have some attk and str lvls to quicken the def training :roll: I dont agree with the 70 def requirment being crazy but i do agree that karils was a big dissappointment... since its the same range bonus as black dhide. Ahrims is better than infinity tho and torag, guthans, dharok, and verac are all better than dragon. I guess after rangers had their period of dominance jagex decided to bring them back down