Da_Latios

Pretty sure that science is debunking this one - humans aren't the only intelligent species. Prove to me that we're special. We've sent another of our species to the moon.There, happy? I don't think you will be, for some reason.

Well essentially, but their based on our survival instincts. Ex: Killing is morally wrong for most people because we have empathy which developed through evolution because it helps us survive as a group. You'd expect to find that in other species as well, but most of the time males of the species will not hesitate to injure other males. I'd expect them to kill each other if they had the tools to do it, or if the losing party didn't retreat. Yeah, but animals aren't sapient. Humans are.

@Y_Guy: Atheism has no doctrine; you have failed.

That's true, but it does help identify what ISN'T the right answer. So if I were to point out some of the many flaws with atheism you'd agree that it too isn't the right answer? But could you? Are you actually attempting to claim atheism is a perfect belief system? :wall: I'll take that as a concession, then? If you'd like me to write an essay detailing the many flaws of atheism, I'll do it..but I'm simply offering you the opportunity to back down from that shockingly arrogant and narrow minded statement first. Actually, I'd like to see this essay.

That's true, but it does help identify what ISN'T the right answer. So if I were to point out some of the many flaws with atheism you'd agree that it too isn't the right answer? But could you? Are you actually attempting to claim atheism is a perfect belief system? :wall:

That's true, but it does help identify what ISN'T the right answer. So if I were to point out some of the many flaws with atheism you'd agree that it too isn't the right answer? But could you?

That's true, but it does help identify what ISN'T the right answer.

I would charge 1-5m for a bless, but since I can't trust most 'scapers to pay up, I'd just loot their stuff and sell it back for a cheaper-than-street price.

The argument of faith is an invalid argument as it applies to you alone. You may have faith but then again, why not have faith that the Hindu gods exist? Or that there is a celestial teapot orbiting Jupiter whose alignment to the sun determines everyday life? Again, there is no reason to choose one god over another, other than "I have faith" which again is an invalid argument since there are so many gods to put your faith in, in the great lottery of religion. Since people keep complaining that I won't read sees_all1's link, here we go; 1254 For all the baptized, children or adults, faith must grow after Baptism. For this reason the Church celebrates each year at the Easter Vigil the renewal of baptismal promises. Preparation for Baptism leads only to the threshold of new life. Baptism is the source of that new life in Christ from which the entire Christian life springs forth. 1275 Christian initiation is accomplished by three sacraments together: Baptism which is the beginning of new life; Confirmation which is its strengthening; and the Eucharist which nourishes the disciple with Christ's Body and Blood for his transformation in Christ. 1281 Those who die for the faith, those who are catechumens, and all those who, without knowing of the Church but acting under the inspiration of grace, seek God sincerely and strive to fulfill his will, can be saved even if they have not been baptized (cf. LG 16). "acting under the inspiration of grace" this is assuming the Christian god exists, of course. 1284 In case of necessity, any person can baptize provided that he have the intention of doing that which the Church does and provided that he pours water on the candidate's head while saying: "I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit." Again, this is all irrelevant in giving a reason to believe in a god. The above, taken from what I can see is one of the Vatican's websites, contradicts itself. But even then, it is irrelevant to this argument. A church's doctrines have nothing to do with the existence of a god; they merely create laws on the assumption that one exists, for which the matter is what we are discussing, NOT the doctrines of a particular church. EDIT: I'm going to the city now, so since I won't be able to make another reply for at least a few hours (unless I decide to hop on via my phone) I'll leave y'all with an example: If I told you I could fly, would you believe me? No? Why not? I've given you a first-hand account that I can fly, which is more evidence than anyone can give for the miracles of Christ. You would tell me to prove that I can fly. This is merely what I am asking of you; to prove that there is a god. After all, theists make the claim that there is a god. Atheists make no claim. (Atheism: a lack of belief in gods, NOT a "belief that there are no gods") The onus is on you. Please don't bring up the faith argument. Why not just have faith that I can fly?

That's it. I'm officially calling troll.

God loved us so much that He gave us free will, and the ability to choose something other than Him. I agree with you. However, religion has been used to justify mass murder, war and genocide countless times throughout history."With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."-- Steven Weinberg Religious martyrs often have good intentions, but they are throwing away their lives and potentially the lives of many others for a cause that will never be fulfilled.

So what? What are you trying to say? Just because the Catholic church has these doctrines doesn't mean other religions/churches do. And where did they get the idea from? You specifically pointed out Christians, and the majority population of Christians are Catholic. Catholics believe in three types of baptisms, so when you said that Christians believe that other religions most likely go to hell, you were misinformed. Read it again. Where did they get the idea from? Certainly not the Bible. No, from the bible. http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p2s2c1a1.htm Scroll to the bottom and you can see every reference to the Bible and other religious works used. WTF? Where am I supposed to look? I'm not reading all of that. Instead, I will just post counter-texts: John 3:36 - He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. I John 5:11 - ...God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. I John 5:12 - He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

1. It's claimed to have happened. There's the problem with it. 2. My point was; why would a god give us a foreskin and then command to cut it off? 3. Then why give us the ability to masturbate?

You, not God, gave those reasons. Also: WTF?! I don't even know where to... just... what the [bleep]?! That's the most sanctimonious, [developmentally delayed]ed piece of [cabbage] I have read in... at least the last few hours.

No. I am referring to the Christian god as one of many non-existent gods. If I ever simply called the Christian god, "god" then I apologise as it was not my intent. However, I make sure to refer to it as "the Christian god" and not "Yahweh" or "Adonai" which I will indeed capitalise. Right, because you didn't muck it here: Are you freaking kidding me? I said that wasn't my intention and that I apologise if I did that. This is why I can't take you seriously. So what? What are you trying to say? Just because the Catholic church has these doctrines doesn't mean other religions/churches do. And where did they get the idea from? You specifically pointed out Christians, and the majority population of Christians are Catholic. Catholics believe in three types of baptisms, so when you said that Christians believe that other religions most likely go to hell, you were misinformed. Read it again. Where did they get the idea from? Certainly not the Bible. Exodus 20:5 - "5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me," so isn't that what I just said? He claims to be a jealous god. This is what I said, the word jealous pertains to the First Commandment. "Jealousy" definitely is a human emotion, but how else are people to understand the nature of God if they can't relate? If God told everyone, "You shall worship no idols," then people think "That's a stupid rule, why?" When God tells everyone that He won't like it because He's jealous and He'll punish you, your children, and generations to come, people won't be so keen to break that rule. :wall: "Don't eat the fruit from this tree!" "Why not?" "Because you don't love me if you do!" "Weirdo...." "Cut off your foreskin." "WTF WHY" "Just do it lol" "WTF why did you give me one in the first place?" "STFU lol" "I'm going to give you extremely sensitive genitalia within reach of highly dexterous hands." "Cool!" "Don't touch it." "WTF"

No. I am referring to the Christian god as one of many non-existent gods. If I ever simply called the Christian god, "god" then I apologise as it was not my intent. However, I make sure to refer to it as "the Christian god" and not "Yahweh" or "Adonai" which I will indeed capitalise. So what? What are you trying to say? Just because the Catholic church has these doctrines doesn't mean other religions/churches do. And where did they get the idea from? Exodus 20:5 - "5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me," so isn't that what I just said? He claims to be a jealous god. I honestly think you're trolling.

Take out the deity and religion is philosophy. You keep saying that there is no evidence. If there were evidence for a deity then it wouldn't be a faith. But why have faith? And why have have faith in one particular god, when there are so many gods?There is no reason to choose one god over another when they all have the same probability of existence. The Christian god is a "jealous"(jealousy; a petty human emotion, which certainly shouldn't be the characteristic of an all-powerful god. Who, after all, is so childish and petty that he would send you to a place of eternal damnation if you won't be his cheerleader?) god. If you are a Hindu, you most likely will not get into the Christian heaven.

Reading through this thread again, there still have been no valid arguments for the existence of a god or gods, or a valid argument for the need of religion. Sure, there are REASONS to believe in a higher power; such as "I'm a single mother with three kids living on welfare benefits and all I can hope for is that my children are safe; therefore I will believe in a protector-god." This kind of argument is fine with me as long as it's not pushed on other people. Religion is a crutch; and we shouldn't kick it out from under people. We must teach people how to walk independently. Furthermore, the aforementioned reasoning for believing in a higher power does absolutely nothing in validating the existence of such a being. It's a comforting thought, but is by no means true. I will admit that even I WISH that there is a god. I would like it if we were divinely created, but there's simply no evidence to suggest that. I care about the truth, whether or not it's comforting to me. I'm going to die in about 80 years, and that'll be it. There's going to be nothing for me after that. While I don't exactly like that idea, all the evidence we have suggests that it's the case. And because of that knowledge, I'm able to make more use of the time I have being alive knowing that it's the only life I'll get. And if sees_all1 is STILL using that "but science isn't proven!HURR!" argument, I'll say it again: Just because science isn't proven doesn't mean you are. You're distracting everyone from the point. The theory of gravity is much, MUCH more solidly grounded than the theory of god.

When people in PvP run away yelling, "U mad rofl?" that is really annoying. No, I wasn't mad, but now that you mention it I will grab my claws and some barrage runes and spend the next hour hunting you down.

Bro I don't typically like to fling mud but I must say that your argument is completely bone-headed. One doesnt equal zero by pure definition. As a society, we have defined the concept of "zero" to mean "nothing" or "completely lacking". Our word "zero" describes how many objects are in my hand when no objects are in my hand. "One" is how many objects are in my hand when there is more than zero but less than two. It is a single object. It exists. You most certainly can prove, in the sense that we use the word to mean "it is almost certain", that an object that IS somewhere almost certainly is not "zero". Something is more than nothing. Now lets define the concept of "a god" as somebody who magically and spontaneously created the earth as it exists today no more than a few thousand years ago. Then, we find fossils that are millions of years old. Right there, we see a contradiction between what we call "creation by god" and what we call "age". These two ideas have a contradiction with each other. I would also like to point out...if religious people lived the rest of their lives as they choose to "believe" in a diety, here would be a glimpse at the life of a religious person: -You would find it totally acceptable to not take medicine. After all, medicine actually is not PROVEN to work. We just are relatively sure that it does work. Stop taking medicine and just pray to god. Why wouldn't you? -You probably shouldn't get an education. Theres no proof that you aren't going to win the lottery tomorrow. Why not just bank on it? Why not just live your life with a little faith? Is it that hard to have faith in something? -You could randomly decide to go hide in a bomb shelter right this very minute. Theres no stone cold evidence that a 10 megaton bomb isnt falling from the sky right now. -Stop eating. Are you SURE that food gives you nurishment? I mean...REALLY sure? Scientists really haven't provided an infallible proof that food is something we should eat. So since it isn't really PROVEN yet, I should just believe whatever the hell I want to believe. My body only needs air to survive...thats my belief. You can't disprove it! As you can see, most religious people don't live their lives this way. Why? Because they are human. Humans have a logical brain for a reason. We naturally know how to make observations and develop predictions that are in accordance with evidence. Most of our actions are governed by evidence. Yet religion comes along and JUST BECAUSE there are billions of people who spread the superstition, people think that this area of our life is not worth living rationally. Good argument, but I have a question. If religious people are "superstitious" because what they believe may or may not be true, but the Atheists and other non-religionists can go and say that the earth is X amount of years and so on and so forth? If the earth is so old, then we don't we have trees that are say 10,000 years old? 100,000 years old? 1,000,000 years old? and so on? Not that trees should be our overall guidance to the age of the earth, but they do have a time stamp that allows us to date back to years before. I may or may not be wrong, just trying to keep the ideas flowing. http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-age-of-earth.html

He may do good or bad, therefore it must be bad by default. Right. Do you sincerely believe that religion is slowing down technology? Who's against stem cell research? All the religious fundies. I have seen people pretend that their system of science and math is superior to my beliefs in a higher power. They think I'm ridiculous because I have no proof, and my beliefs are based on nothing. I KNOW that their system of math and science are based off statements that cannot be proven, and they're equally ridiculous (and ignorant or hypocritical) in thinking their system is based in fact. You can't prove that one does not equal zero, I can't prove that it does. I can't prove that God exists, you can't prove that God doesn't. It means that one of us is wrong, no more and no less. Your claims that religion is on the whole destructive to humanity is absolutely ridiculous, especially since you can't prove the most basic of beliefs that you hang your entire argument on. Will you shut up about the number thing? Stop being a damn child.I can fly. Want proof? No, you have to prove that I can't.

How can you say that it's not beneficial? Just like that. It's not black and white. You give religion to 1 man and he volunteers his time for people in need. You give religion to another man and he kills his neighbor because his god has a bigger [bleep] than the other god. You can't claim a god exists with scientific terms, because it's irrelevant. Theists don't need evidence. If there were evidence for a deity then it wouldn't be faith. He may give bread to a homeless man one day, and crash a plane into a building the next. Today's religion's skewed moral teachings are infectious and evil. Now, if there were a religion with no murder, no glorified martyrdom, no promise of an afterlife... we may be on to something. Many theists ARE satisfied with not knowing the world. What's that? There are trillions and trillions of galaxies and the universe is 13.7 billion years old(shut up, sees_all1) and the Earth is 4.5 billion years old and humans evolved from a line of African Apes? THAT CAN'T BE TRUE BECAUSE I LOVE JESUS!

Cmon really? Define good. If it works for the theist then it's a good reason. "I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world."-Richard Dawkins If we want humanity to advance, we must shed the chains of religion. EDIT: Damn, two posts in a row. I assumed someone would have replied by now. :S

No, it is a belief, because you cannot prove it. For the sake of shutting you up, I will concede to your point. You STILL provide no reason to believe in a god, nor any evidence. Belief in a god is not beneficial; no, it is the reverse. "Belief" that there are numbers is not harming anyone, and amounts can be REPRESENTED by numbers. Thinking that because you believe in science and math, and all things "proven" is just as ridiculous as a belief in God (and in my opinion, neither are ridiculous). You can't prove anything in science or math without a couple simple statements that are held as absolute truths. Also, religion never developed nor used an atom-bomb, which is to say that numbers have harmed people more than religion. EVEN IF all my "beliefs" are wrong, and ridiculous, and stupid, and religion didn't develop and atom bomb and that numbers did... you STILL provide no reason to believe in a god, nor evidence for a god. You STILL are wrong in claiming that belief in a god is beneficial, and you STILL are wrong in claiming that a god exists. Me being wrong does NOT make you right.

Just like god is another interpretation of someone's perceptions. Yes, but that's not what people claim. People claim in a humanoid all-powerful deity with consciousness, sapience and the power to reason. It has created the universe through a thought process similar to humans. This kind of god is ridiculous, and it's the one I'm talking about.