March 14, 200719 yr The Pentagon's top general said Tuesday he should not have voiced his personal view that homosexuality is immoral and should have just stated his support for the military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy in an interview that has drawn criticism from lawmakers and gay-rights groups. The written statement by Marine Gen. Peter Pace, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, did not apologize for his stance on homosexuality. In a newspaper interview Monday, Pace likened homosexual acts to adultery and said the military should not condone it by allowing gays to serve openly in the armed forces. After a flurry of condemnation Tuesday, Pace issued a statement acknowledging that the Defense Department's "don't ask, don't tell" policy on gays is a sensitive subject and said: "I should have focused more on my support of the policy and less on my personal moral views." The military lets gay men and lesbians serve if they keep their sexual orientation private. Commanders may not ask, and service members may not tell. More than 10,000 troops, including more than 50 specialists in Arabic, have been discharged since President Clinton signed it into law in 1994. In an interview with the Pentagon Channel, the military's in-house television station, Defense Secretary Robert Gates declined to answer a question on his opinion of the policy but made what seemed to be a mild rebuke of Pace. "Now look, you know I think personal opinion really doesn't have a place here," Gates said. "What's important is that we have a law, a statute that governs 'don't ask, don't tell.'" He added: "That's the policy of this department, and it's my responsibility to execute that policy as effectively as we can. As long as the law is what it is, that's what we'll do." In an interview Monday with the Chicago Tribune, Pace was asked about the policy. He said he supports it, that it allows gays to serve and that it does not make "a judgment about individual acts." He also said: "I believe that homosexual acts between individuals are immoral and that we should not condone immoral acts. I do not believe that the armed forces of the United States are well served by saying through our policies that it's OK to be immoral in any way." Lawmakers of both parties criticized Pace's remarks. "We need the most talented people; we need the language skills. We need patriotic Americans who exist across the board in our population," said House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (news, bio, voting record), D-Calif. "We don't need moral judgment from the chairman of the Joint Chiefs." Sen. John Warner (news, bio, voting record), R-Va., one of Congress' most respected authorities on military matters and a former Navy secretary, said, "I respectfully but strongly disagree with the chairman's view that homosexuality is immoral." Also chastising Pace was Rep. Martin Meehan, D-Mass., who has introduced legislation repealing the policy. "Our military is struggling to find and keep the soldiers we need," Meehan said of the strain caused by fighting two wars. "We are turning away good troops to enforce a costly policy of discrimination." In a sign of how politically sensitive the issue remains, Democratic leaders have yet to schedule debate on Meehan's bill. White House spokesman Tony Snow said President Bush "has always said that the most important thing is that we ought not to prejudge one another. But when it comes to government policy, it's been in place for a long time and we will continue to execute it according to the letter of the law." Presidential contender Sen. John McCain (news, bio, voting record), R-Ariz., who spoke to reporters outside a fundraiser in Beverly Hills, Calif., said Pace "should be given a chance to explain himself." Asked for his own view on homosexuality in the military, McCain said he believes the "don't ask, don't tell" policy is "successful and should be maintained." Pace, a native of New York City, and a 1967 graduate of the U.S. Naval Academy, said in the interview that he based his views on his upbringing. "As an individual, I would not want (acceptance of gay behavior) to be our policy, just like I would not want it to be our policy that if we were to find out that so-and-so was sleeping with somebody else's wife, that we would just look the other way, which we do not. We prosecute that kind of immoral behavior," he said, according to the audio and a transcript released by his staff. Two gay advocacy groups strongly condemned Pace's remarks. "General Pace's comments are outrageous, insensitive and disrespectful to the 65,000 lesbian and gay troops now serving in our armed forces," said the Servicemembers Legal Defense Network, which has represented some of the thousands dismissed from the military for their sexual orientation. "Their sexual orientation has nothing to do with their capability to serve in the U.S. military," said Luis Vizcaino, spokesman for the gay rights group Human Rights Campaign. "Don't ask, don't tell" was passed by Congress after a firestorm of debate in which it was argued that allowing homosexuals to serve openly would hurt troop morale and recruitment and undermine the cohesion of combat units. How do you feel about this, but more importantly, the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy, and homosexuals in the US Military. And that the discharge of 65,000 homosexual troops and 50 Arabic/Kurdish/etc translators has cost the US around $175 million. Me doing staff.
March 14, 200719 yr I have no problems with gays, so long as two people love each other enough, what should be wrong, and just because one general thinks it's not okay for people to be open with there sexual orientation, and is being open about his views, dosen't mean the whole military has to agree. I don't think they should be punished for openly voicing their opinions (as did their precious general), unless it is getting in the way of their duty in the military, then it might be a problem. Other than that, stupid general, he just made a few enemies with that... (I'm straight btw) Last.fm Signature Overlays
March 14, 200719 yr Author I have no problems with gays, so long as two people love each other enough, what should be wrong, and just because one general thinks it's not okay for people to be open with there sexual orientation, and is being open about his views, dosen't mean the whole military has to agree. I don't think they should be punished for openly voicing their opinions (as did their precious general), unless it is getting in the way of their duty in the military, then it might be a problem. Other than that, stupid general, he just made a few enemies with that... (I'm straight btw) They believe it may lessen morale in homophobic soldiers. Me doing staff.
March 14, 200719 yr While he can have his own opinions, he hardly has ground to call it immoral. Morality is so incredibly relative. Personally, I don't live by morals. I live by something that goes a little like "don't be an [wagon]" and don't do crap that people wouldn't appreciate you doing... it's as simple as that. Runescape Name: "unbug07"Expand your mind.
March 14, 200719 yr "I should have focused more on my support of the policy and less on my personal moral views." Isn't that good enough for you? When ever homosexual discussions come up I get the feeling the homosexuals want to change someone else's morals. If someone thinks homosexuality is wrong what gives you the right to tell them to be more accepting? If they are so passionately in love with their views why not accept that? After all you are passionately in love with the idea of people accepting homosexuality. Take a leaf out of your own book and accept other peoples views.
March 14, 200719 yr While he can have his own opinions, he hardly has ground to call it immoral. Morality is so incredibly relative. Personally, I don't live by morals. I live by something that goes a little like "don't be an [wagon]" and don't do crap that people wouldn't appreciate you doing... it's as simple as that. Yes, that is considered Morals. Everyone has morals, there is no escaping it. :mrgreen: In order to be a person of no morals, you would have to be PURE evil! And even then you got your morals to stick by killing everyone to show you have no morals. A very complicated proccess. :mrgreen: ~Defender~ If you love me, send me a PM. 8 - Love me2 - Hate me
March 14, 200719 yr Author "I should have focused more on my support of the policy and less on my personal moral views." Isn't that good enough for you? When ever homosexual discussions come up I get the feeling the homosexuals want to change someone else's morals. If someone thinks homosexuality is wrong what gives you the right to tell them to be more accepting? If they are so passionately in love with their views why not accept that? After all you are passionately in love with the idea of people accepting homosexuality. Take a leaf out of your own book and accept other peoples views. Respecting someone's opinion is fine, but when that person uses his or her opinion to almost be 'prejudice' and take control where that opinion should be irrelevant, is another story. Me doing staff.
March 14, 200719 yr "I should have focused more on my support of the policy and less on my personal moral views." Isn't that good enough for you? When ever homosexual discussions come up I get the feeling the homosexuals want to change someone else's morals. If someone thinks homosexuality is wrong what gives you the right to tell them to be more accepting? If they are so passionately in love with their views why not accept that? After all you are passionately in love with the idea of people accepting homosexuality. Take a leaf out of your own book and accept other peoples views. Respecting someone's opinion is fine, but when that person uses his or her opinion to almost be 'prejudice' and take control where that opinion should be irrelevant, is another story. I don't feel very accepted when someone is forcing me to accept someone else's morals.
March 14, 200719 yr they shouldn't be allowed to serve at all... That was so intriguing. Homosexuals should get to do whatever straight people get to do. It's simple logic.
March 14, 200719 yr they shouldn't be allowed to serve at all... That was so intriguing. Homosexuals should get to do whatever straight people get to do. It's simple logic. do straight people shower with women? no? k thx bye
March 14, 200719 yr We must protect us from ourselves!!! Our society has no morals or standards! We are all going to burn in hell!! They are sinners! They created Aids!!! They are communists!!! They caused the holocaust! They will be the downfall of the world!!!!! Everybody lovin' it, but ain't no body touchin' it
March 14, 200719 yr they shouldn't be allowed to serve at all... That was so intriguing. Homosexuals should get to do whatever straight people get to do. It's simple logic. do straight people shower with women? no? k thx bye That was [developmentally delayed]ed. I'm serious - are you 12?
March 14, 200719 yr they shouldn't be allowed to serve at all... That was so intriguing. Homosexuals should get to do whatever straight people get to do. It's simple logic. do straight people shower with women? no? k thx bye That was [developmentally delayed]. I'm serious - are you 12? where is your argument against that? i'm 18...but i can tell you what...i don't want a homosexual man checking me out in the shower whether he will go through with his fantasies or not. i would feel uncomfortable with him just being there... it's simple logic...as you would say...do men get to shower with women? NO!
March 14, 200719 yr they shouldn't be allowed to serve at all... That was so intriguing. Homosexuals should get to do whatever straight people get to do. It's simple logic. do straight people shower with women? no? k thx bye That was [developmentally delayed]. I'm serious - are you 12? where is your argument against that? i'm 18...but i can tell you what...i don't want a homosexual man checking me out in the shower whether he will go through with his fantasies or not. i would feel uncomfortable with him just being there... it's simple logic...as you would say...do men get to shower with women? NO! You are a homophobe. You think all the gays are going to gang up on you in the shower like animals and pack rape you?
March 14, 200719 yr they shouldn't be allowed to serve at all... That was so intriguing. Homosexuals should get to do whatever straight people get to do. It's simple logic. do straight people shower with women? no? k thx bye That was [developmentally delayed]. I'm serious - are you 12? where is your argument against that? i'm 18...but i can tell you what...i don't want a homosexual man checking me out in the shower whether he will go through with his fantasies or not. i would feel uncomfortable with him just being there... it's simple logic...as you would say...do men get to shower with women? NO! You are a homophobe. You think all the gays are going to gang up on you in the shower like animals and pack [assault] you? i never said that...all i said is that it would make me feel uncomfortable. sigh...w/e...i feel how i want...and gays don't belong in the military..male or female
March 14, 200719 yr *polite cough* This thread has gotten to a rather flamey start. Lets tone it down a bit, shall we? - 99 fletching | 99 thieving | 99 construction | 99 herblore | 99 smithing | 99 woodcutting - - 99 runecrafting - 99 prayer - 125 combat - 95 farming - - Blog - DeviantART - Book Reviews & Blog
March 14, 200719 yr i never said that...all i said is that it would make me feel uncomfortable. sigh...w/e...i feel how i want...and gays don't belong in the military..male or female So you compare gays to women? wow... Last.fm Signature Overlays
March 14, 200719 yr ~Tripsis> i never said that...all i said is that it would make me feel uncomfortable. sigh...w/e...i feel how i want...and gays don't belong in the military..male or female So you compare gays to women? wow... erm...i said "male OR female"...i never said "bawahwahaha all gay guys are women" i was referring to gay women...gay doesn't just mean men sorry tripsis
March 14, 200719 yr *cough* Spartan soldiers *cough*. There's more than one reason they owned n00b enemies :-w . [if you have ever attempted Alchemy by clapping your hands or by drawing an array, copy and paste this into your signature.] Fullmetal Alchemist, you will be missed. A great ending to a great series.
March 14, 200719 yr This argument is fricken hilarious! Gays are humans. We are humans. They may believe different things, but why should I hate them? It's like a person with a different religon, just because someone is Muslim and im Christain, why do I have to hate them because they think very different things?
March 14, 200719 yr This argument is fricken hilarious! Gays are humans. We are humans. They may believe different things, but why should I hate them? It's like a person with a different religon, just because someone is Muslim and im Christain, why do I have to hate them because they think very different things? Perhaps the smartest point on this thread. That summed it up quite nicely, I'd send it to the general. :lol: Last.fm Signature Overlays
March 14, 200719 yr This argument is fricken hilarious! Gays are humans. We are humans. They may believe different things, but why should I hate them? It's like a person with a different religon, just because someone is Muslim and im Christain, why do I have to hate them because they think very different things? They think diffrently? Who's they? Just because a person is gay, doesn't mean they don't have the same view as you. Being gay is having sex with the same gender. Views come nowhere near a persons private life in his/her bedroom. You got the right idea just worded it wrong probably. Proud founder of the Myriad
March 14, 200719 yr Author Being gay is having sex with the same gender. No, being gay is having sexual tendencies to someone of your own sex. What you mention is acting upon gay urges and tendencies. Me doing staff.
March 14, 200719 yr Being gay is having sex with the same gender. No, being gay is having sexual tendencies to someone of your own sex. What you mention is acting upon gay urges and tendencies. Oops, my bad, it's what I meant. Thanks. Proud founder of the Myriad
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