Runescape Exposed - Article

[ianer101]

The guides to prevent item scamming were great. Good job to whoever wrote the article, it exposes quite a few flaws in Runescape that could (and probably should) be fixed.

[HellsBells]

 

That's why you have to be 13 to play this game...

 

 

Uh, no, you don't. A huge percentage of RS players are under 13.

 

 

 

And if that's Jagex's official line, why are they deliberately marketing the game to kids under 13?

 

 

Educating children about the dangers of internet and letting them mature more first is better than blaming online games for being not safe for children.

 

 

Then why does Jagex refuse to educate the children they are trying to get to play Runescape about its dangers?

 

 

 

~q

 

 

 

[quote name="Runescape Terms and Conditions - http://www.runescape.com/terms/terms.ws"]A SPECIAL NOTE ABOUT PRETEENS AND USERS UNDER 18

 

If you are under 13 years old, you must not create an account. We don't knowingly permit anyone under 13 to use this website. Nor do we knowingly collect any personally identifiable information from preteens. Internet safety experts have advised that preteens do not fully appreciate the risk of providing too much personal information online or communicating with strangers they encounter online. And the game difficulty level is for teenagers and older. While we appreciate that many preteens would want to use our websites, we urge parents to instruct their children not to lie about their age so as to be able to use our websites before they are old enough. Instead, we recommend that parents set up an account and play together with their preteens who are otherwise too young to play the Game. Many parents have reported that playing the Game as a family is fun and rewarding. Then when your children are 13 they will be ready for their own account.

 

 

 

If you haven't read the terms and conditions... you shouldn't be playing this game.

 

 

 

 

 

The terms and conditions say that the difficulty of the game is for 13 year olds and up????? ARE YOU FREAKIN' KIDDING ME? I've seen people in Lumbridge ask-I need milk for Cook's Assistant how do I get some? Beat the cow with some logs and then squeeze it's udders? BUCKET WITH COW!

 

For crying out loud, there's a Right-Click option now!

 

 

 

Milk Dairy Cow

 

Walk Here

 

Examine

 

Cancel

 

 

 

My mwommwy twaught mwe nwot two wive away pewsonaw detwails two stwangews wand wonwine... :roll:

 

 

 

The 13 and under rule is bad in my opinion. I know 8 year olds who play this. But they don't run around using leetspeak, do they? Add an IQ test to the account creation!

 

 

 

That article was the worst thing I have ever read. I've seen kids broken or whatever the hell it was. OMG I LOST MY BRONZE DAGGER!!!!!! I'M GOING TO HANG MYSELF NOW!

 

 

 

Another thing, the verbal abuse part was also stupid. I think we've all been made fun of, been sword at or bullied in real life. It's much powerful in real life rather than in pixels by some fat nerd who can't stand up for himself in real life so he/she resorts to RuneScape to call people noobs. Then he and his imaginary friends have a laugh over it with imaginary drinks...

 

 

 

Too summarize:

 

 

 

The article is stupid.

 

The 13+ rule is bogus.

 

The article is stupid.

 

The article is stupid.

 

Oh yeah, did I mention the article was stupid?

 

 

 

P.S: I'm 11.

[Gamerr]

Wise words from the author.

[trunksrs]

Well, I was going to just drop this and let the arguement die. But since it just got bumped, there is one argument I still wish to make against the book. I did not post earlier because I could not bring any specific evidence for my side, but now I have it.

 

 

 

 

If you need more evidence, look at the book cover.

 

 

 

It is clearly derived from this wallpaper image.

 

 

 

Notice the differences. If it was made by Jagex, they would have just used their own copyrighted picture. However, since it is not by Jagex, A new cover image had to be made.

 

 

On the contrary -- the fact that they are nearly identical goes against your argument. Copyright law covers clearly derivative works, which the cover certainly is. If it had been used without permission, the author of the book would be wide open to a lawsuit.

 

 

 

And you can be sure that Scholastic's lawyers wouldn't let any images be used without permission.

 

 

 

Finally, do you own the book? I bet not, or you wouldn't be making these foolish arguments. It is filled with pictures and descriptions taken from the game and KB.

 

 

 

Originally, my why original argument was something like: Go to the toy aisle at the Dollar Tree. You will see plenty of toys that are obviously remakes of other copyrighted franchises, yet they can make their own reproductions because they make minute changes.

 

 

 

I recently realized a much better, very specific example. Action Replay. This prodcut is not made or endorsed by Nintendo (or any of the other companies they make cheats for). In fact, using one actually violates the EULA (which is why no one should have gotten in trouble for "hot coffee", but that is a different arguement.) on most games, and completely voids any warranties by Nintendo. However, in the very front, it says things like "Made for DS and DS Lite, Includes codes for Pokemon Diamond and Pearl, ect." which is using Nintendo's trademarks. Then, just for a tab bit of an extra eye catcher, at the bottom of the package, are the 2 pokemon on the covers of the new games. But they are so off of the original pictures that they are not copyright violations.

 

 

 

I'm not trying to say that Jagex's hands are completely clean from this book. When you write to inform, you need sources. Contacting staff members and asking for some information is to be expected. But unless they contacted Tracy West, and said "We want you to right us a guide targeted at preteens and publish it through scholastic", they didn't do anything wrong. West wrote the book, and chose a publisher. Scholastic chose the suggested age for the book.

[jazirent]

im 11 and i play, back when i made my account there was no age thing 8-)

[Kiriyama]

(which is why no one should have gotten in trouble for "hot coffee", but that is a different arguement.)

 

 

 

OT

 

 

 

Rockstar left that content in the game, on the PS2 and Xbox versions it took a few hours of hacking, it was hidden well but still there, needless to say it got changed to AO in America, until they released a version without the content, now I most likely have the before version, I'm not going to hack into it though. It won't change the 18 rating in Scotland anyway.

 

 

 

As for the Pc version there was a mod released however the guy removed it and you can download a patch to get rid of the "hot coffee" scenes.

 

 

 

Some losers still use these scenes, I've seen a couple vids on YouTube while looking at SA vids. Overall Rockstar did get in trouble, they hid this fact from the rating companies, thats asking for trouble when its found, even if Rockstar thought gamers would never discover these scenes.

 

 

 

Back on Topic.

 

 

 

That article seems to focus on the F2P aspect of the game which has a million more faults than the P2P aspect, I've yet to be called a noob for a stupid reason as walking past. IF you do focus on F2P, you will get alot more bad aspects.

 

 

 

As for adults and experienced players because of more kids joining. Thats alot of bull. Did you pull that fact out your butt? Its actually to be more likely that they've ran out of things to do, I myself as an experienced player found myself running out of things to do before, but I'm back. (Plus I had exams)

[jondea0]

i dont even see why this is a issue, the editor is a overprotective fun-police officer. killing a guard with numbers is obviously going to scar a child for life.

 

also a child stealing from a farmer on rs is not going to make him hunt down farmers and nick from them any more cooking a chicken on rs will make him obsesively cook them in realife.

 

 

 

if the child is not mature enough not to be affected he shouldnt be browsing the net freely

 

 

 

end of debate

[PastyGangsta]

That's why you have to be 13 to play this game...

 

 

 

Thats only a recent update.

 

When I started my account they didnt ask you your age (I was only 10...)

 

and even now, you can still lie... :twisted:

[paulyts50]

This has been bumped and therefore it is time that the facts speak for themselves. Jagex sold the licence for the Runescape Guide to Scholastic...which is a children's book publisher, who then hired Tracey West, a known childrens author. I got this information in March by merely requesting it of the author herself. Imagine that...getting the 'facts' .

 

 

 

Please don't barrage with the usual 'protect Jagex at all costs, including my self respect' replies, that some sly people make. Jagex has a legal team from day one and knew full well what was going to be in the guide and to whom it would be marketed. This is the first and only 'official guide' since Runescapes inception, and it was to make money, knowing full well that Scholastic markets with book fairs and flyers sent out monthly to elementary schools throughout Canada and the United States. It also markets online to the world and the suggested target for the book online is 9 to 12. (it is now 8 and up in the Scholastic flyer)

 

 

 

The letter from me and the reply follows.

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Tracey West,

 

 

 

Many parents have been discussing your book 'The Official Runescape guide to the Free World' as it is now called.

 

 

 

There are some questions we would like to have answered, please. As an independent author, were you commissioned by Jagex to write the book? If not, then by whom?

 

 

 

When you wrote the book, did you know what your target audience would be? If not, what would you consider to be your target audience?

 

 

 

When you wrote the book, did you know what the target audience was for the game of Runescape? Do you know what the target audience is now?

 

 

 

Are you aware that your book is being marketed by scholastic to Elementary school children, ages 8+, but distributed to grades 1 to 6?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you,

 

(my name withheld)

 

 

 

Dear (my name withheld)

 

 

 

Scholastic purchased a license from Jagex to create the Runescape guide. Scholastic hired me to write the guide. I have no input regarding how or to whom Scholastic markets the book.

 

 

 

Hope this answers your questions.

 

 

 

Tracey West

[highlanders]

So, Jagex gave the licensed, but they are not responsible for the content of the book, or the age-range that scholastic gave to the book. Book argument is discarded then.

[paulyts50]

So, Jagex gave the licensed, but they are not responsible for the content of the book, or the age-range that scholastic gave to the book. Book argument is discarded then.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ummm so you are either an employee of Jagex (they don't spell well or have good grammar either), 9 years old and unable to grasp the concept or unwilling to see the facts and as I said so devoted to the game you sacrifice self respect rather then make an argument using facts and logic.

 

 

 

Discard the book because....you said so? Erm, they put this in debate club because no one has the gumption to discuss the faults of the game or Jagex, but as it is in it in debate club now it should also mean discussion using logic and reason. You have used neither.

 

 

 

Not responsible for the content of the book? They gave the license because Scholastic offered them a hell of a lot of money to give them the rights to the guide and thus will remain the only guide. Scholastic is a children's publisher and Tracey West is a children's author. If you are saying Jagex was totally unaware of that and to whom it would be distributed ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâæ. you are delusional.

 

 

 

The content of the book is solely about Runescape, and Andrew has already stated he was the collaborator in content. But you go ahead and try to keep justifying for your own benefit that Jagex would have nothing to do with "the book". That has nothing to do with this discussion.

 

.

[Edzed]

This game would be so boring if Jagex listened to that person.

 

 

 

I agree, upsetting other people is all that i play the game for. I love to see other people get upset over a game. Im a sick and twisted person.

 

 

 

Edzed.

[highlanders]

Pauly, I am not responsible if you are unable to explain your ideas properly. And if you want to insult my writing, I insist you do it in flawless French, for that is my main language. Maybe I should start taking additional English classes then?

 

That's really too bad you were being downright offensive, I was starting to like you, too bad eh?

[paulyts50]

Highlander, I do not wish to argue with you for reasons stated above. By all means practice your English, but not at other people's expense.

 

 

 

Now back to the topic, you think 'the book' should not be used in this discussion. Making blanket statements which do nothing to refute the proof I showed you is immature. I brought the proof and you have cannot discredit it, so you dismiss it as irrelevant. Tell me what logic and reason you used to come to your conclusion...and I will take back the statement that you are delusional in your backing of Jagex unconditionally.

 

 

 

(BTW changing the subject to distract readers is also a sign you wish to delude others as well as yourself...and I wasn't insulting your English I was making observations of your logic and reasoning. )

[Sly_Wizard]

This has been bumped and therefore it is time that the facts speak for themselves. Jagex sold the licence for the Runescape Guide to Scholastic...which is a children's book publisher, who then hired Tracey West, a known childrens author. I got this information in March by merely requesting it of the author herself. Imagine that...getting the 'facts'.

 

 

 

Well, seeing as how this thread has been bumped, I suppose I'd better add in my $.02. If you got this information from Tracy West herself back in March (This thread was created on March 27) then why did you wait over two months after the fact to post it? :-k

[highlanders]

I wasn't insulting your English I was making observations of your logic and reasoning.

 

Really? Alright, I'll check if the content of your message have suddenly changed overnight. No point in discussing with you if all you do is insult me my friend, that's not going to get you anywhere :lol:

[paulyts50]

This has been bumped and therefore it is time that the facts speak for themselves. Jagex sold the licence for the Runescape Guide to Scholastic...which is a children's book publisher, who then hired Tracey West, a known childrens author. I got this information in March by merely requesting it of the author herself. Imagine that...getting the 'facts'.

 

 

 

Well, seeing as how this thread has been bumped, I suppose I'd better add in my $.02. If you got this information from Tracy West herself back in March (This thread was created on March 27) then why did you wait over two months after the fact to post it? :-k

 

 

 

You know i quit playing sly ...because of players who aren't players...as you well know. I posted it now because my gmail advised someone had replied to this thread. And why are you posting here to add your 2 cents (one cent in your case ) other then to inflame rather then to make points...oh yes, you have a following here who think you have a point and are intelligent and don't actually troll any forum you visit!! Seems I wasted my time and shouldn't have bothered bring facts to the discussion and especially sorry to have drawn you from the fox hole.

[qeltar]

So, someone resurrected this thread I see.

 

 

 

So, Jagex gave the licensed, but they are not responsible for the content of the book, or the age-range that scholastic gave to the book. Book argument is discarded then.

 

 

 

That's total and complete nonsense. Apparently some people will go to any length to protect Jagex.

 

 

 

Jagex was directly involved in the production of the book. If Jagex didn't want that book aimed at those under 13, it wouldn't be aimed at them. Period.

 

 

 

I'm a published author. I know how the system works. My guess is that you do not.

 

 

 

The facts have already been laid out for anyone with a lick of decency, common sense and honesty.

 

 

 

~q

[Kiriyama]

So, someone resurrected this thread I see.

 

 

 

So, Jagex gave the licensed, but they are not responsible for the content of the book, or the age-range that scholastic gave to the book. Book argument is discarded then.

 

 

 

That's total and complete nonsense. Apparently some people will go to any length to protect Jagex.

 

 

 

Jagex was directly involved in the production of the book. If Jagex didn't want that book aimed at those under 13, it wouldn't be aimed at them. Period.

 

 

 

I'm a published author. I know how the system works. My guess is that you do not.

 

 

 

The facts have already been laid out for anyone with a lick of decency, common sense and honesty.

 

 

 

~q

 

 

 

So in other words, agree with your views or we have no common sense, decency and honesty.

 

 

 

Stop putting that spammy ~q at the end of every post aswell.

 

 

 

Anyway if Jagex sold the license to the book and an independant author wrote it, Jagex aren't really involved.

 

 

 

Also the umm "facts" in that article focus on the F2P aspect.

[paulyts50]

 

So in other words, agree with your views or we have no common sense, decency and honesty.

 

 

 

Stop putting that spammy ~q at the end of every post aswell.

 

 

 

Anyway if Jagex sold the license to the book and an independant author wrote it, Jagex aren't really involved.

 

 

 

Also the umm "facts" in that article focus on the F2P aspect.

 

 

 

It is immature to put words in other people mouths, and yes if the facts are being swept away the you do have no common sense. "Jagex aren't really involved ", you said ...(rather badly I might add). Well in that case. you are saying Jagex sold out...purely for money and with no regard to whom and for what purpose they would sell their license? Well yes that is also partly our point. They sold out even knowing the manual was being made for children under 12.

 

 

 

But, for your information the license sale is an 'agreement' which carries stipulations and will be signed by both parties. Should there be no stipulations then then of course there is carte blanch use...but let's consider that there was no stipulation. That means that it could now become a porno manual on how to meet people in Runescape? Any repercussions for doing that? Doubtful, as the protective clauses for the seller were not there. Sooooooooo you are saying they have not only sold out, they have done something really stupid that can hinder their reputation and game? You presume Jagex doesn't have an iota of sense to make sure they were involved?

 

 

 

Ok lets get real...lets take a large corporation like ...Disney. They can shut down any operation that does not buy the license to use Disney copyright. They can have you remove a picture from your wall in bedroom if they wished (and they have had pictures and murals removed for daycares in my town) Now when you buy a license, can you do anything you wish with it? Absolutely not. The Disney agreement has hundreds of clauses so that its name will not be tarnished. That is how Corporations do sensible business, or rather how sensible Corporations do business.

 

 

 

And what was that remark about f2p? So it is ok that they market to 8 year olds as that has nothing to do with members? Think again....the market was intentional to keep the kiddies coming to ftp and eventually ptp.

[Kiriyama]

*sighs* Can't we let this die?

 

 

 

Please indicate where I put words into anyones mouth.

 

 

 

Anyway Yes Jagex sold the liscence however they never indicated an age range so they cannot be blamed for 8 year olds buying that "guide".

 

 

 

Also regarding that Disney could make you take down a disney poster in your room, its wrong, they use their liscence on the product, you buy the right to use it. Anyway they are messed up enough putting pr0n on by mistake.

 

 

 

And that remark about f2p was that he focused on that aspect.

 

 

 

I've been a member for a year and have rarely seen stfu noob, unless in extreme circumstances (annoying greatly). However I go to a f2p world and am bound to see the word noob used very often.

[paulyts50]

*sighs* Can't we let this die?

 

 

 

He says lets let this die then goes on and on....

 

 

 

Please indicate where I put words into anyones mouth.

 

 

 

You were saying Qeltar was i9nsisting all readers agree with him, yet, what he was saying was many people here have presented facts and yet some have tried to argue past them...like yourself.

 

 

 

Anyway Yes Jagex sold the liscence however they never indicated an age range so they cannot be blamed for 8 year olds buying that "guide".

 

 

 

Jagex sold out as we said. So the fact is either Jagex reneged on its responsibility and conveniently 'forgot' that the publisher was a children's book publisher and excluded it from the contract or they didn't care...either way Jagex sold out for money. So yes, Jagex can and will continue to be blamed for the target audience of 8 to 11.

 

 

 

Also regarding that Disney could make you take down a disney poster in your room, its wrong, they use their liscence on the product, you buy the right to use it. Anyway they are messed up enough putting pr0n on by mistake.

 

 

 

 

They put an unlicensed picture up obviously, not a licensed poster (putting words in people's mouths again) ...sheesh! Quit finding non-arguments to prop yourself!

 

 

 

And that remark about f2p was that he focused on that aspect.

 

 

 

I've been a member for a year and have rarely seen [be quiet] noob, unless in extreme circumstances (annoying greatly). However I go to a f2p world and am bound to see the word noob used very often.

 

 

 

 

I have been a member for 3 years and having been called noob many times ...even now at 113. I heard it used 50 to a hundred times a day in members...and hated it. I have never called anyone a noob...I find real words to make my point and use them in context. Your reply of ftp still has no relevance in spite of your 'explanation'. The noob name calling is rampant and ridiculous.

[cookking912]

... I don't even know how to answer to that article. That was just complete bull-[cabbage]. The rules say 13 and up so by 13 you should be mature enough to play most FPS games let alone a game like Runescape. And anyone under 13 the rules say must be monitored by an adult. Therefore anyone to immature to play RS or that could be "scarred for life" by something in RS is their parents responsibility.

 

 

 

 

 

There are so many things worse than Runescape on the internet.

[Mayjest]

[hide=Reply to Guide debate] Ok. Yes, Jagex sold the rights to an official guide to Scholastic. They sold out to a children's author. Big Whoop.

 

 

 

However, in the process of selling out, they lost control over what Scholastic puts in said book, and whom it was marketed to. Although it does not say it explicitly, the letter certainly implies that Scholastic got the rights, THEN hired the children's author. And although a large part of Scholastic's stuff is 'real' children's books (i.e. Spot the Dog et al), a large part (indeed, the major part) is designed for older readers - you can hardly call Harry Potter, with many characters deaths, depictions of torture and other horrors as a true children's book in any sense of the word. I'd hazard a guess that Scholastic played the 'teenage' card when they acquired the rights.

 

 

 

You can hardly say that the Runescape Guide is a major profit earner for the company anyway. And it's very unlikely that teenagers (the games intended market) would buy the book. So Scholastic lowered the age in order to gain more sales - gullible parents buying a book for 'darling Jonny and his cute game' are far more attractive to the wallets than teenagers who want to look cool on the outside but are happy to play games when no one's looking.

 

 

 

I am not willing to say that Jagex specified 'we want a book designed for 6 year olds and up so that we can get them to play without actively marketing to them, so we can still say it's designed for 13 and up'. I am willing to concede that Jagex sold out to a children's author - but one who doesn't market exlusively to under 13s. You could say that most of their profit comes from over 13s, and a sizeable chunk from adults. I reckon Jagex sold the rights to a guide, expecting that it would be for teenagers and not paying attention after that, while Scholastic didn't pay attention at the beginning and bought the rights to a guide expecting it would be for children.

 

 

 

And as much as you may not want to admit it, not paying attention happens a lot in business. [/hide]

 

 

 

As the article itself, I believe I commented on this ages ago, but I don't remember what I said. What I will say now is that this Charles M. Kozierok has either deliberately hunted through looking for all the bad parts and exaggerating them or did not play the game himself. It honestly sounds like he got a bunch of complaining emails about the game and wrote the article merely from that.

 

 

 

Users are being too insulting to each other? That's what the filter and the report button are for. If the users are getting insulted by the word 'gaye' (which last I checked was a blokes surname) then they're probably too young to be playing the game.

 

 

 

Users are young and vulnerable to abuse? They shouldn't be playing the game then. What ever some may claim about Jagex's marketing tactics, you have to be 13 to play the game - younger and you're breaking the rules.

 

 

 

My favourite one - Jagex sets no limits to how long you can play for! If you're over 18, you can set the limits youself. If you're 13-18, you're parents can and should set the limits (mine did even when I was 19. Although that was more for internet use in general because we couldn't afford the download bill I was racking up... thank God I've moved out now. Unlimited broadband!) If you're under 13, you shouldn't be playing anyway, so no time limit needed.

 

 

 

I also love how the article pins the blame on Jagex for the scam websites out there than sell fake gold. You know, the ones that claim you can buy RS gold but then don't give it to you. Like those are Jagex's fault. It like blaming Madeline's parents for all the fake sites out there claiming that giving to their site is giving to the save maddie fund.

 

 

 

I don't think we can deny than RS has problems. But blowing them up so such ludicrous proportions is just gonna do more harm than good.

 

 

 

Oh, and a tip I learned a few years ago when I was researching stuff to build my old PC - never trust ANYTHING from Tom's Hardware. Ever.

 

 

 

Edit: oh here's the best part. Right in the middle of the articles speech about addictiveness, the word game is highlighted. What happens when you roll your mouse over it? A little speech bubble pops up with "Search for: addicting games, fun games, games." Well, I followed the 'addicting games' link and not a one of them is RuneScape. There are evidently a lot more addicting games out there on the internet, RS didn't even rate in addictinggames.com's top 10! I couldn't even find it in the list! Kids could be doing far worse than RuneScape, it seems...

[paulyts50]

 

And as much as you may not want to admit it, not paying attention happens a lot in business.

 

 

 

I would comment on the rest of your reply to the guide, but it full of assumptions and that last comment is laughable. Jagex didn't pay attention to whom they sold the license? Yes they had no idea Scholastic...who is known throughout north America and the world as a children' publisher, would sell to children. You are saying Jagex and their lawyers abdicated all their rights and responsibilities? Jagex did that so it is ok, because they weren't paying attention? They didn't do it to make much money? And the little kiddie format it is written in and Andrew helped write was intended for teens? Hogwash! In this litigious world you better be paying attention in business!

 

 

 

Your comments on the article are typical of a young man who sees Jagez as some Godlike figure and sees parents as the culprits. Well I read the article as a parent . The resulting site , truthscape, is a great guide for parents. Unlike the supposed 'parent guide' Jagex has written, which glosses over the negative or excludes it altogether, parents have a place to go to read about the game. Just how can parents do their job without reading what the game actually entails?

 

 

 

The parent's guide and knowledge base were changed as a direct result of parent's complaints and the articles Charles wrote. The inclusion in the KB that the game was meant for 13+ was changed following the last expose article...before that, it stated the game was for 'everyone'.