Runescape Exposed - Article

[highlanders]

There is a debate club?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No meat or substance; ThatÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s the way a realist would see it. I am a person who looks at things in abstract thinking, seeking absolute truth and different points of views to a problem.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As for an example for impoliteness:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I explicitely told him why I did not make any comment. Yet he says this:

 

 

 

:lol: You didn't comment because you have no rebuttal.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And yet for all your accusations, you have not come up with a single example of anything I wrote that is false.

 

 

 

Yet, saying that after I just gave him an example, clearly saying ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¢â¬Åfor exampleÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬ÃâÃ

[highlanders]

It was not your prediction that made the change.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Of course not, did I say somewhere it was thanks to me?

 

 

 

I pointed out to qeltar luring was not going to stay legal for very long, and that it was not wise to state it in his article. He replied something in the likes of 'oh really, just because you said so, prove it, etc..'. There you go qeltar, point proven. :wink:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes.. they did it 3 days after my article went up, despite people complaining about it for 6 weeks. Just a coincidence, I'm sure.

 

 

 

Yes I know, that's exactly what I thought. They probably did it because of the article, in order to cover up their behinds.

[Ichimaru]

Nvm

 

 

 

I want to say sumthing but idk. I agree with the article, but i dont think its that bad for kids. I started playin at 11 yrs old, and i didnt have any problems..... of course its hard when you lose friends and all, but happens, we move on....

[King_Peter18]

I'm sorry, but this is just HILARIOUS! All three of you are arguing about your previous posts! You aren't even on the topic anymore! This isn't a debate anymore, this is just a war. Nothing more, in the past few posts, all I have seen is. "You've insulted me." "No I didn't." I was right, you were wrong. Thats it, the end.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Then you continue! This isn't even on the subject anymore, ridiculous.

[highlanders]

I'm sorry, but this is just HILARIOUS! All three of you are arguing about your previous posts! You aren't even on the topic anymore! This isn't a debate anymore, this is just a war. Nothing more, in the past few posts, all I have seen is. "You've insulted me." "No I didn't." I was right, you were wrong. Thats it, the end.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Then you continue! This isn't even on the subject anymore, ridiculous.

 

 

 

Agreed :lol:

[King_Peter18]

Just for the sake of ending this little argument..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Taken from Amazon

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[highlanders]

I already looked at it :P

 

 

 

I sent a query to Jagex asking them if they endorsed the book, and asking them why is it the book is for 9 to 12 yrs old while the game is for people over 13 yrs old. With some luck, they might actually send some sort of answer, even an automated response would be a miracle. :roll:

 

 

 

I sent the query on a throwaway f2p account, in case they decide to ban me for asking the question, so the chances of them answering are narrowed.

[King_Peter18]

Your very first post directed at me called me a liar, accused me of falsifying the material in my article, and then ended with ""Owned much"? Yes thank you."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm sorry Qeltar, but after going through the entire topic, he never said anything like that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I hope this brings this argument closer to its end. I'm getting tired of this petty argument. Alot of people didn't like certain aspects of the article, and I respect their opinions. But alot of people did flame Qeltar. Some things may be wrong in someones eyes, but that it in their point of view. We all have rights to our own opinions, and trying to change someone elses opinion on a message board is impossible.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This entire discussion was a waste of time. Nothing more.

[kirbybeam]

A lot of you are missing the point.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Let's take a look at the game Counter-strike for instance. That game is all about killing people. How is this different from Runescape? Counterstrike is rated M for Mature. It is not marketed to little kids. You don't see advertisements for Counter-Strike on kid's sites. Steam doesn't have a "parents' guide" for Counter-Strike.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Take Diablo (or Diablo II). Diablo also has an M for Mature rating. Diablo has killing, black magic, swearing, nudity, etc. But why do I not care? Because Diablo isn't being advertised to little children!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Joe Camel thing hit it right on the spot. I don't give a damn about Viagra commercials, for instance, since they usually depict older people in them. But if Viagra started showing children (<18) using their product in their ads, there would definitely be complaints.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Runescape can have all the stuff in the real world, but compare it other games marketed at little kids. Jumpstart nth Grade, Leapfrog Leapster, etc. etc (how much violence and killing and scamming and cheating and stealing do those games have/encourage?). If Jagex is trying to convince parents that Runescape is just another game like the aforementioned, then that is very wrong.

[qeltar]

 

 

 

Your very first post directed at me called me a liar, accused me of falsifying the material in my article, and then ended with ""Owned much"? Yes thank you."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm sorry Qeltar, but after going through the entire topic, he never said anything like that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes he did. It's on page three of this thread.

 

 

 

 

 

 

This entire discussion was a waste of time. Nothing more.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well, I don't think it was.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jumping in here with off-topic comments berating others for off-topic comments is utterly pointless. You've now posted three times since my prior post and you're still going on about it. If you think someone is breaking the rules, report them. If not, there are plenty of other threads that might be more to your liking.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

To get back to the subject...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have had a note added to the first page of the original article to acknowledge Jagex's rule change. I also revised part 2 (still going up Monday) to reflect this welcome rule change and give Jagex credit for it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As for the matter of the community, just go to the RS forums and check out the thread about Rule 2 in Rants. There you will see just how badly the community standards have been allowed to degrade -- dozens of people openly whining about how it's unfair that they can "no longer make money", and how luring "isn't scamming because the victim deserved it" and so forth.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In short, a microcosm of much of what I discussed in my article.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

~q

[Sly_Wizard]

I read the article but I'm much too lazy to read the past seven pages of responses so I will say this: I'm pretty sure that your child could be out doing much worse things than playing Runescape (Such as watching TV lol). If you find Runscape to be that bad of an environment for young children, then don't allow them to play.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And, before you say it, I'm ethically challenged and morally degenerate (Or so you believe).

[Xorack]

That is why you must be 13 and older to play the game, yes it is easy for even a 5 year old to click "I am 13 or older", but this is where parental responsiblity comes in. YOU SHOULD NOT BE LETTING A 7 YEAR OLD PLAY ONLINE GAMES FOR HOURS AND HOURS A DAY! Its just not healthy... Yet still parents let their kids do what ever they want, possibly harming their child, and certainly dragging the quality of the game down.

[qeltar]

That is why you must be 13 and older to play the game,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's a myth.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

~q

[meili]

On a side note, I'd like to thank who ever sent me that wonderful E-mail with all the profanities in it. I really appreciate that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah because kids are worse than plague

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

True, the rest of us are just scammers, beggars, sex maniacs, or worse, kids!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah..thanks...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I hope you are not implying that *I* sent the email (whatever it was).

[Asphodel]

 

That is why you must be 13 and older to play the game,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's a myth.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

~q

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yep, just like the rest of jagex's rules are 'just a myth'. Scamming? Illegal?! Just a myth.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[/sarcasm]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And I'd like to know where he got that fact about there being children the age of 5 online?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The internet is not a safe place. Most people are not nice. Most 13 yr olds should be able to understand this, unless they are immoral, which I doubt. Like ugafan said, RS would be very boring if jagex listened to ths person.

[paulyts50]

 

 

That is why you must be 13 and older to play the game,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's a myth.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

~q

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yep, just like the rest of jagex's rules are 'just a myth'. Scamming? Illegal?! Just a myth.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[/sarcasm]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And I'd like to know where he got that fact about there being children the age of 5 online?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The internet is not a safe place. Most people are not nice. Most 13 yr olds should be able to understand this, unless they are immoral, which I doubt. Like ugafan said, RS would be very boring if jagex listened to ths person.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Runescape Terms and Conditions - http://www.runescape.com/terms/terms.ws

 

 

 

A SPECIAL NOTE ABOUT PRETEENS AND USERS UNDER 18

 

 

 

If you are under 13 years old, you must not create an account. We don't knowingly permit anyone under 13 to use this website. Nor do we knowingly collect any personally identifiable information from preteens.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Internet safety experts have advised that preteens do not fully appreciate the risk of providing too much personal information online or communicating with strangers they encounter online. And the game difficulty level is for teenagers and older. While we appreciate that many preteens would want to use our websites, we urge parents to instruct their children not to lie about their age so as to be able to use our websites before they are old enough.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Instead, we recommend that parents set up an account and play together with their preteens who are otherwise too young to play the Game. Many parents have reported that playing the Game as a family is fun and rewarding. Then when your children are 13 they will be ready for their own account.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The paragraphs above were required by law. That was a US Privacy Act introduced in 2000 and Jagex complied early in 2006 (look up COPPA) rather then be fined, or shut down.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The change to terms and conditions (which applies to those who sign up today) to include the above had nothing to do with Jagex not wishing children to play. ANYONE was allowed to play before, and anyone who played who was below 13 is still allowed to play after the change. Anyone who signs up since this change is allowed to play should the parent agree. (or the child lies....*gasp* no one here lies about their age, do they?)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have 2 adult friends whose children were 5 and 4, and still have accounts. Is that proof enough.

[King_Peter18]

 

On a side note, I'd like to thank who ever sent me that wonderful E-mail with all the profanities in it. I really appreciate that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah because kids are worse than plague

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

True, the rest of us are just scammers, beggars, sex maniacs, or worse, kids!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah..thanks...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I hope you are not implying that *I* sent the email (whatever it was).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No I am not.

[rodl]

"play-versus-player environements"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I wonder what play-versus-player is... Oh yeah, it's a typo. Article is bunk and no one cares what that person thinks. He has only played for what? 1 week tops?

[trunksrs]

People really need to stop pointing fingers and step up and take responsibility for their own mistakes. Yes, Jagex is not perfect, they have made mistakes. But this article is pointing fingers at Jagex, trying to take all the blame off the parents.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Under no circumstances should young children be allowed to use the internet unsupervised. The article said there are children as young as five playing. Yes, I know this is true, my little brother started when he was five, and he always had me standing over his shoulder looking out for him. I would not let a five year old on Nickjr.com without checking it out myself first.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The point that annoyed me the most was in game killing. Yes, people and monsters respawn after you kill them. But I highly doubt it is "teaching" players that when you kill something, it magically comes back to life. If anyone of any age believes that, they seriously have much bigger problems than a game. And if they do believe that, then it is the PARENT's responsiblity to step in and teach them otherwise. Get them a golfish, and when it dies, don't say you sent it off to a farm. It's rediculous that parents try to hide facts of life from their kids, and then when games and tv ignore death, they're the ones at fault.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A lot of you are missing the point.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Let's take a look at the game Counter-strike for instance. That game is all about killing people. How is this different from Runescape? Counterstrike is rated M for Mature. It is not marketed to little kids. You don't see advertisements for Counter-Strike on kid's sites. Steam doesn't have a "parents' guide" for Counter-Strike.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Take Diablo (or Diablo II). Diablo also has an M for Mature rating. Diablo has killing, black magic, swearing, nudity, etc. But why do I not care? Because Diablo isn't being advertised to little children!

 

 

 

....

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not every game that has killing in it is automatically rated M. Final Fantasy has killing in much the same way as RuneScape, and it is reated T, which, amazing, is 13+, the same rating as RuneScape. What sets then apart from M rated games is they are not as graphic, do not use the same language, do not show the gore, and do no have nudity. And since by 13, you REALLY should have an understanding of death, a T rating is fine for games where you can kill.

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

I've noticed that this author has also released part 2 of his series.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://tomshardware.co.uk/2007/04/02/ru ... index.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

At first I thought it'd be a productive (while macabre) read into what RS was from his eyes, but much of it seemed to be a fair bit of dribble.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On the second page, the author clearly states that this book is by Jagex LTD. It's really not an official copy, and it's not even close to complete from what I've heard -- mostly goes over freeplay and things that 90% of the players didn't already know. I want to know how you can take that source and deem it as credible. Since I can see that this source did not come from Jagex themselves, why would anything that they say be taken literally? (Okay, so the book says the game's for all ages. So what?)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On that subject, sure kids do need to be worried, but from what I can see you're overtaxing it. A kid and their parents do need to be aware of what they're getting into, but you make it seem like murder, rape and pillaging are taking place all over the game when it's honestly just a handful of misbehaving children. Turn off the flamethrower and take the community with a grain of salt.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Same thing with the Player Moderator subject. I'll somewhat agree with you on the Jagex Moderator issue -- their presence isn't felt much, and I've only seen about three in four years of playing -- but the player moderators that you say are not setting the example are the select minority -- and the ones that are quite severe on the matter are usually terminated as well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm sure that Jagex is working on a way to resolve the Customer Support issues. And I'm also sure that they're trying to work on that Construction bug. But, I have to ask you a couple of questions:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1. Do you know how long it took for them to get Construction/Carpentry done in the first place?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2. Do you know how complex that module alone is to maintain, let alone build?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3. Do you have *any* experience with programming Java and/or C++?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you knew the answers, then you would see why it's taking quite a while to fix. They had to rip up their first engine (which was a main catalyst for making RS2 in the first place), test and retest, and even now some of their modules are broken, many badly than others. But you can't really complain that they're not getting fixed, they're just taking a lot longer than I'm sure that even they would like or agree with. Instead of nitpicking, how about you report some of these bugs so that development could get to fixing them faster? And don't try to play it off like, "Oh they're well known, so why don't they know?". They have other jobs in different parts of the game too, you know.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Take this article (and my opinion) with a grain of salt. Instead of complaining that not much is being done, take the active side and do something about it instead of nitpick and moan.

[Stewie_Griffen]

This guy loses any and all credibility by saying 'Think of the poor 10-year-old who gets betrayed by his friend and his whole family quits, are people who aren't even teenagers needing this education, can I actually read that people need to be 13+ to play this game before writing an article...'

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wait, reading part 2 now. So they are aware of it. Hmm.

[qeltar]

 

 

 

On the second page, the author clearly states that this book is by Jagex LTD. It's really not an official copy, and it's not even close to complete from what I've heard -- mostly goes over freeplay and things that 90% of the players didn't already know. I want to know how you can take that source and deem it as credible. Since I can see that this source did not come from Jagex themselves, why would anything that they say be taken literally? (Okay, so the book says the game's for all ages. So what?)

 

 

 

 

 

 

Do you have the book?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It is official. It was produced by Jagex, they are the copyright holder. And they are marketing it to kids and pre-teens.

 

 

 

 

 

 

A kid and their parents do need to be aware of what they're getting into, but you make it seem like murder, [assault] and pillaging are taking place all over the game when it's honestly just a handful of misbehaving children.

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's a lot more than a "handful".

 

 

 

 

 

 

Same thing with the Player Moderator subject. I'll somewhat agree with you on the Jagex Moderator issue -- their presence isn't felt much, and I've only seen about three in four years of playing -- but the player moderators that you say are not setting the example are the select minority -- and the ones that are quite severe on the matter are usually terminated as well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The player moderators were mentioned only peripherally. My main point was not criticizing them but simply pointing out that they are effectively powerless.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jagex needs to manage its own game, not push the job off on players who can't do much of anything anyway.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm sure that Jagex is working on a way to resolve the Customer Support issues. And I'm also sure that they're trying to work on that Construction bug.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well, it's only been resulting in people getting scammed for what, 10 months now?

 

 

 

 

 

 

1. Do you know how long it took for them to get Construction/Carpentry done in the first place?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Relevance?

 

 

 

 

 

 

2. Do you know how complex that module alone is to maintain, let alone build?

 

 

 

 

 

 

How much work does it take to post an announcement warning people not to take expensive items into others' houses -- compared to writing an Easter event or overhauling the poll system?

 

 

 

 

 

 

3. Do you have *any* experience with programming Java and/or C++?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Only regular C. Again -- relevance? Am I taking in 50 million clams a year and telling people that I value stopping scams as a priority?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Instead of nitpicking, how about you report some of these bugs so that development could get to fixing them faster? And don't try to play it off like, "Oh they're well known, so why don't they know?". They have other jobs in different parts of the game too, you know.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've reported many myself. Others I know have been reporting them for months.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You're being very loyal with these apologetics, but you don't have the facts on your side.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Instead of complaining that not much is being done, take the active side and do something about it instead of nitpick and moan.

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Do something". Such as?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry, but I did do something -- I did more than anyone else I know ever has.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

~q

[qeltar]

People really need to stop pointing fingers and step up and take responsibility for their own mistakes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes.. Jagex needs to do thiis.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

~q

[Greedom1]

I must say at the least that Part 2 was much less whiny than Part 1...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's nearly impossible to respond to all of the author's points with any definitive point of view as several were spot on and others were full of holes. As much as I'd like to, I think the time I'd spend on a post responding to his article would be a total waste.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Perhaps a new Article part II thread will reinvigorate this topic? (Btw if one has been posted, please let me know as I would disagree with a mod locking a new thread that is focused on part II... I'm considering creating a new one given that this thread pages 3-7 are a bit frustrating to get through.)

[qeltar]

I personally would be happy if someone started a new Part 2 article, preferably in somewhere that it would be more seen. One was started earlier but a mod closed it so I am not sure if it is wanted, though.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

~q