Runescape Exposed - Article

[kill2pleasure]

The game is fine, it's the society in which we are that makes it rotten.

 

 

 

Who lures, scams, hacks, cheats, lies, insults people? Who, the game? No, it's the players.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

nicely said,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

if thats the case parent need to teach their children about respect, for people and other player, don't insult people over a computer, thats childish...

 

 

 

:shame: :shame: :shame: :shame:

[qeltar]

 

 

 

instead of blaming jagex, you should put some tips on that article about how you guys as parents could resolve this, not by giving jagex negative commentary, but sit with your children and have a talk with them about mmorpgs

 

 

 

 

 

 

Part of the reason why I wrote this article series is to help educate parents and others about what RS is really like. Most simply have no idea.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As for Jagex, they are largely responsible for the ignorance of parents. Go take a look at the company's Parents Guide. What do you see -- an accurate portrayal of the good and bad parts of the game, or a marketing pamphlet intended to get Jagex more paying customers?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am spending several weeks writing a large web site that will contain the information that parents need but Jagex refuses to provide. The article series is part of that effort.

 

 

 

 

 

 

your article needs work im afraid to say, maybe people shouldn't see just the bad in things

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jagex puffs up all the good things in the game. SOMEONE has to show the bad parts.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

How can someone decide if they want their kids to play this game if they can't find out what the game is really about?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And make no mistake: Jagex IS deliberately targeting this game at kids, both under and over 13, regardless of what their lawyers may bury in the middle of a disclaimer page.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

~q

[lemontail]

 

 

 

instead of blaming jagex, you should put some tips on that article about how you guys as parents could resolve this, not by giving jagex negative commentary, but sit with your children and have a talk with them about mmorpgs

 

 

 

 

 

 

Part of the reason why I wrote this article series is to help educate parents and others about what RS is really like. Most simply have no idea.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As for Jagex, they are largely responsible for the ignorance of parents. Go take a look at the company's Parents Guide. What do you see -- an accurate portrayal of the good and bad parts of the game, or a marketing pamphlet intended to get Jagex more paying customers?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am spending several weeks writing a large web site that will contain the information that parents need but Jagex refuses to provide. The article series is part of that effort.

 

 

 

 

 

 

your article needs work im afraid to say, maybe people shouldn't see just the bad in things

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jagex puffs up all the good things in the game. SOMEONE has to show the bad parts.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

How can someone decide if they want their kids to play this game if they can't find out what the game is really about?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And make no mistake: Jagex IS deliberately targeting this game at kids, both under and over 13, regardless of what their lawyers may bury in the middle of a disclaimer page.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

~q

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm 14 and I'd love to see a website like that, it would really benefit Runescape in my opinion \

[pati]

 

just read the first page and quoted a bit:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It does have some positive learning aspects, but players also get a broad education in the negative aspects of online gaming, including cheating, scamming, lying, taunting, bullying, gambling and addiction.

 

 

 

gambling in runescape :?:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, gambling. Do you know Barbarian Assault? You can gamble your point there.

 

 

 

Besides, everything based on droprates could be qualified as gambling. And so does staking.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've seen first-hand the impact on children who have been betrayed, cheated, verbally abused or killed by another player - the negative consequences can have a lasting impact. Players and parents of players alike need to take these issues seriously.

 

 

 

lol, like nobody ever "verbally abused" you at school etc.

 

 

 

betraying, cheating, ... = all things that can happen in real life, even if your 13.

 

 

 

What you literally state is true. However, just because it happens in RL there is nothing wrong with happening ingame?

 

 

 

That is about the stupidest I've ever heard.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ofcours it's wrong

 

 

 

my point is: sh*t happens everywhere, anytime

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

about BA: never played it so it could count as gambling

 

 

 

however: monster drop rate = gambling? explain that cause I don't understand

 

 

 

and staking is certainly not gambling, it's mainly about skills and items and perhaps a bit of luck

[qeltar]

 

 

 

my point is: sh*t happens everywhere, anytime

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jagex should be doing more to clean that up. Instead they are more interested in covering up the problems and blaming the victim.

 

 

 

 

 

 

and staking is certainly not gambling, it's mainly about skills and items and perhaps a bit of luck

 

 

 

 

 

 

Poker is about skills and luck too. Is that not gambling?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Staking", "gambling" and "betting" are synonyms.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

~q

[pati]

 

 

 

my point is: sh*t happens everywhere, anytime

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jagex should be doing more to clean that up. Instead they are more interested in covering up the problems and blaming the victim.

 

 

 

 

 

 

and staking is certainly not gambling, it's mainly about skills and items and perhaps a bit of luck

 

 

 

 

 

 

Poker is about skills and luck too. Is that not gambling?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Staking", "gambling" and "betting" are synonyms.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

~q

 

 

 

yet I still don't believe staking is gambling

 

 

 

if you have bad cards in poker you can still win

 

 

 

however in staking if you have bad armor and stats compared to your opponent you will lose

[andylax38]

I think it's a great idea that you want to get parents more involved in what their kids are playing. The web site should be a great way for parents to know exactly what runescape is like before letting their kids play. The one thing I don't agree with you on is the amount of blame you are putting on Jagex for the problems in the game. Sure Jagex isn't exactly blameless for problems in the game (e.g. scaming, luring, hacking) but I feel a majority of the blame should go on the players. Jagex didn't intend for these problems to occur rather it was players who noticed these things and felt the need to exploit them. If there was an easy way to fix these problems I'm sure Jagex would have implemented something by now. The fact is these problems are not an easy fix so we will most likely just have to deal with them. Basically my point is if people did not get so caught up in the game and making money quickly none of these problems would exist. People need to lighten up and just enjoy the game the way it is supposed to be played.

[Wachtwoord]

Can anyone tell me what's wrong with becoming an even bigger compan? What I mean is, in the end this is a capitalistic country, which is totally based on making the most money possible. I don't get what's wrong with trying to make as much money as possible. If you do have a problem with it, I suggest to move to Cuba.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On Topic: I disagreed with a quite some points:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

- What's wrong with merchanting? If some people feel happy/satisfaction earning a lot of money, I don't see a problem with that. Sure it's not my choise to stand in Fally park whole day shouting "Buy/sell X for Y ea/k/m", but I can see people choose to do this, just because of the respect you get as a very rich players.

 

 

 

If you don't like this idea, I again recommend to move to Cuba.

 

 

 

ADD: Removing those rares would probally crash the economy, as "Duke Freedom" already showed in his Times article. Just because when training a skill like fletching, you'll always produce products which there is no demand for (besides alching ofcourse). But thanks to all the rares, there is no huge inflation. This is how the system works and changing this would create a totally different MMO.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

- The Scamming. I support the "if you're scammed it's your own fault idea". That's why they made the second trade window, taking 2 seconds to check it every time won't kill you. And it's totally safe, what do you want from JaGeX to do about that? (Note; this no way means you should flame the scammed person.)

 

 

 

Luring, however, should be forbidden IMO.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

- The Gambling, I don't know enough about it how such a system works for little children. But I think everyone will agree this can hardly do any harm to teenagers, because they can put it in a perspective (I hope that made sence in English). In the end, this is a very childish game, just look at the graphics and the randoms.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

- The Flaming. Eventhough it can be very bad indeed, I'll just say two words ; Ignore List. People should use it more.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

- Female character. Personally, I'm playing with a female character for over a year now. (Yes, I'm male and yes, I did do it because the skirts were cheaper). And I think I get such "wanne be my GF" once every two months max. That's not enough to be seen as a real problem IMO. And you can mostly just politly say no and they'll stop. If they just keep going on, they can a single trip to the always usefull ignore list.

 

 

 

(Note; I laughed at your discription: "testosterone-overloaded teenaged hornballs" :lol: )

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

- Addition. Can you please tell me what's wrong with "no-lifing"? Because for most teenagers, the goal of life in this stage is just to have as much fun as possible. What if playing RS is just what they like best. I can only see 3 restrictions; 1. They shouldn't screw up their future. 2. They should at least have some IRL friends. 3. If they keep playing but don't enjoy it anymore, they should stop.

 

 

 

(Note; I'm not like that myself and I set more restrictions to myself)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Points I did agree with:

 

 

 

- Players should be at least in their teenage years before playing this game (I would say at least 14). Because of excactly the same reason you mentioned, they would just copy the bad behaviour.

 

 

 

- The wildy. Yes, that has become one big whole of crap.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The reason I don't meet very much immature/annoying people is in my sig.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Note; I'm sorry if my English is horrible. I'm dutch and I've always sucked at foreign languages, just as my writing skills.

 

 

 

And this was probably my longest post ever here. =P

[mini193]

That's why you have to be 13 to play this game...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

luckily some of us joined 2/3 years ago before they made that rule

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

not mentioning any names

[ekim]

Me again.

 

 

 

Qeltar, I've got a few issues about the article. After reading it I can't get rid of the bad taste in my mouth, the feeling like the author, although no doubt tackling true problems of the game, is more about blackmailing Jagex than actually adressing the problems mentioned within.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Firstly, Qeltar, present the facts only, let it on the reader to decide if it's "oh disturbing", "unfair to kids", "unheard of", or whatnot. Let the reader to choose his own stand on the issues presented. It's allright to present your stand about the issues covered, express your feelings about them, sure, but let it be clear that it is exactly just that - the personal feelings of yours as a parent, as a player.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I can't stress this enough, because within the most of the article apart from presenting and explaining the facts you are deliberately pressing the reader to adopt your [negative] feelings about the issues, your appaled morals. You leave no room for the reader to make his own stand. Let's say:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Another skill in the game is thieving, which pretty much speaks for itself. If you get attacked by a guard when thieving, you just kill him. In addition the "usual" methods like pick pocketing and stealing from market stalls, you can hit townsfolk over the head with a stick to knock them out before robbing them. Nice, huh?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Instead of presenting the fact that there is a skill, thieving, with all the possible negative connotations within, maybe mentioning that Jagex should have informed parents about it and the need of explanation why is it included and what justifies such a behavior in game (medieval times roleplay, pickopoketings as it used to happen within medieval town markets etc.. for example), you wrote the whole paragraph, I dare to say, purposefully as inspired histeria, propaganda statement (as Snik mentioned on the TH forums)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There were more moments like these when I felt like I'm being fed with just another histerics NGO propaganda about whale hunting, third age countries poverty, world peace :wall: but this time, it was all geared towards Jagex, who apparently had to do something unimaginable to the writer of the article.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So to sum it up: Fight to improve the game, I bow to you for your efforts, but use reason and facts, not feelings and histerics.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In fact, it felt more like Lucky writng it - good points brought up, but the reasoning to back them up - terrible ;)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Cheers,

 

 

 

once again, hidden lurker.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

P.S. again, lol: I can't believe it - there's sudenly 2 (TWO!) articles posted within one day on these boards worth reading. Check out Fredz's A Game - The Direction post.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(edited spelling mistakes)

 

 

 

(edit again as an off topic response to a poster bellow:)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tipit boards are widely unpopular inbetween adults due to it's extreme amount of idiotic one-line posts, forum trolls, attention seekers and ego driven kids. Thus, that's why these boards have been dubbed "kiddy boards" and are mostly neglected by the adult runescape community.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Interstingly, I admit it, I made the post before finishing reading the article in question here. Maybe if you'd read it as well (or once again now) you'd understand my motives better as the article, accidently, covers all the issues I happened to mention in my maybe-degrading, but truthful statement.

[Wachtwoord]

 

That's why you have to be 13 to play this game...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

luckily some of us joined 2/3 years ago before they made that rule

 

 

 

That rule is joke, it's so incredible easy to get passed. And proving someone is younger is (almost) impossible, so you can't report them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

To Ekim: Why do you flame this board/community? It won't add anything to the discussion and they only thing you'll achieve is making people mad.

 

 

 

You don't need to express your opinion like this you can also "just tell facts".

[Jimmyh7]

Wouldn't that mean everything has a negative aspect though?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, apart from cookies :

[Will H]

 

Wouldn't that mean everything has a negative aspect though?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, apart from cookies :

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You can choke on cookies. \

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Qeltar, you are ignoring so many facts and seem to be self obsessed on making Jagex feel bad and as a result, you feeling good. Isn't that bullying, which you so badly seem to emphasise is so bad?

 

 

 

You are denying children the experience that we call life. Stealing happens. Cheating happens. It all happens. Runescape is designed to be realistic (In the sense that there is good and evil in the world, not just good), yet makes it's own world in which players escape to. That's why we love Runescape. Or at least, most of us do.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Chance is also a major factor in life. It is only bad when you go to places like casinos. Funnily enough, there are no casinos in Runescape.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Buisnessess are also a major factor in life. You need to earn a living, and manage money. You spend money in order to gain resources to obtain more money. Also, you raise skills though hard work (also realistic) which act a catalysts for more money generating. It's the basic infrastructure on how the economy works.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*Switches off flamethrower*

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Get a reality check.

[Arch_Tyrant]

There isn't much actual "serious" sex talk, though I am sure a fair bit of that occurs privately. Most of it is the childish variety, often heard when players are doing something boring like fishing or woodcutting. It is routine to hear kids calling each other "gaye" and making taunting sexual references to each others' mothers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry I just thought that was downright hilarious.

[lemontail]

 

There isn't much actual "serious" sex talk, though I am sure a fair bit of that occurs privately. Most of it is the childish variety, often heard when players are doing something boring like fishing or woodcutting. It is routine to hear kids calling each other "gaye" and making taunting sexual references to each others' mothers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry I just thought that was downright hilarious.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

agreed XD

[runescapeloser22]

Booo hisss booo

 

 

 

:notalk:

 

 

 

I like the part when it ended :)

[dast]

 

 

 

 

That's why you have to be 13 to play this game...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Uh, no, you don't. A huge percentage of RS players are under 13.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And if that's Jagex's official line, why are they deliberately marketing the game to kids under 13?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Educating children about the dangers of internet and letting them mature more first is better than blaming online games for being not safe for children.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Then why does Jagex refuse to educate the children they are trying to get to play Runescape about its dangers?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

~q

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[quote name="Runescape Terms and Conditions - http://www.runescape.com/terms/terms.ws"]A SPECIAL NOTE ABOUT PRETEENS AND USERS UNDER 18

 

 

 

If you are under 13 years old, you must not create an account. We don't knowingly permit anyone under 13 to use this website. Nor do we knowingly collect any personally identifiable information from preteens. Internet safety experts have advised that preteens do not fully appreciate the risk of providing too much personal information online or communicating with strangers they encounter online. And the game difficulty level is for teenagers and older. While we appreciate that many preteens would want to use our websites, we urge parents to instruct their children not to lie about their age so as to be able to use our websites before they are old enough. Instead, we recommend that parents set up an account and play together with their preteens who are otherwise too young to play the Game. Many parents have reported that playing the Game as a family is fun and rewarding. Then when your children are 13 they will be ready for their own account.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you haven't read the terms and conditions... you shouldn't be playing this game.

 

 

 

i have one thing i thought we as players are not aloud to trade or share a acount???

 

 

 

something is wrong :-s

[qeltar]

Anyone in Europe having trouble accessing the article, please try this link?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/2007/03/2 ... xposed_uk/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If a mod is willing to put that into the first post too, that would be great.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

~q

[Ltje]

 

 

 

[insert quotes here]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ofcours it's wrong

 

 

 

my point is: sh*t happens everywhere, anytime

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

about BA: never played it so it could count as gambling

 

 

 

however: monster drop rate = gambling? explain that cause I don't understand

 

 

 

and staking is certainly not gambling, it's mainly about skills and items and perhaps a bit of luck

 

 

 

Monster drop:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lets say you are killing dust devils for that Dragon Chain. You want that chain. But you get that chain by dropping rates. And that dropping rates are based on, yes you guessed it right, luck.

 

 

 

So getting something by luck, could be qualified as gambling.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

yet I still don't believe staking is gambling

 

 

 

if you have bad cards in poker you can still win

 

 

 

however in staking if you have bad armor and stats compared to your opponent you will lose

 

 

 

That makes no sense at all.

 

 

 

You are right that with bad cards in poker you can win. But that changes are unbelievable small.

 

 

 

However, a level 3 wielding flowers can beat a level 126 in torags. Again, the changes for that are INCREDIBLE low. But theoretically speaking, it can be done.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But putting money on the outcome of a match/fight/whatever, is gambling. That is the official definition of staking. So you pretty much can't get around that.

[darkblob0]

"testosterone-overloaded teenaged hornballs" that just summerized half of the runescape community \

[highlanders]

o_O qeltar is the author? :o :lol:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On topic, there's things in-game that ressemble gambling, yes, so what? It's not because something is called "gambling" that it is automatically wrong. Medias keep telling us gambling is wrong. It is, when you're at the casino losing all the money of your paycheck. In rs, the few things that barely ressemble gambling will, in the contrary, make the kids learn the dangers of losing when gambling. Also, may I mention, dueling and the high level gamble of barb assault are for p2p, and out of all my p2p friends none are under 13 yrs old.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As a parent, you should be more concerned about ur kids going on porn websites, and going get laid at 12 yrs old(and a lot do at that age) at parties.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So whilst your 12 yrs old is having a sexual life while being out with his friends, you're worried about him/her being traumatized by Rs? Okkaayyy....

[ugafan_2009]

The author noted several times that he or she is a avid player of RS.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why? She obviously thinks it's evil.

[King_Peter18]

 

 

 

 

That's why you have to be 13 to play this game...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Uh, no, you don't. A huge percentage of RS players are under 13.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And if that's Jagex's official line, why are they deliberately marketing the game to kids under 13?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Educating children about the dangers of internet and letting them mature more first is better than blaming online games for being not safe for children.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Then why does Jagex refuse to educate the children they are trying to get to play Runescape about its dangers?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

~q

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[quote name="Runescape Terms and Conditions - http://www.runescape.com/terms/terms.ws"]A SPECIAL NOTE ABOUT PRETEENS AND USERS UNDER 18

 

 

 

If you are under 13 years old, you must not create an account. We don't knowingly permit anyone under 13 to use this website. Nor do we knowingly collect any personally identifiable information from preteens. Internet safety experts have advised that preteens do not fully appreciate the risk of providing too much personal information online or communicating with strangers they encounter online. And the game difficulty level is for teenagers and older. While we appreciate that many preteens would want to use our websites, we urge parents to instruct their children not to lie about their age so as to be able to use our websites before they are old enough. Instead, we recommend that parents set up an account and play together with their preteens who are otherwise too young to play the Game. Many parents have reported that playing the Game as a family is fun and rewarding. Then when your children are 13 they will be ready for their own account.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you haven't read the terms and conditions... you shouldn't be playing this game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

While we appreciate that many preteens would want to use our websites, we urge parents to instruct their children not to lie about their age so as to be able to use our websites before they are old enough. Instead, we recommend that parents set up an account and play together with their preteens who are otherwise too young to play the Game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well dee dee dee dee. Guess you should try reading it too before you go saying that kids under the age of 13 shouldn't be playing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

JaGeX needs to do alot of things to protect their players, and give people the entire information about what is actualy going on in the game.

[wild]

It seems a few people are concerned that this article makes Jagex look bad, that we should not blame Jagex, but the players.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Granted, some players are the ones who need an attitude adjustment, that goes without saying. However the two major influences in the way the players behave are the parents and Jagex.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The parents have no real clue about the real goings on within Runescape. Unless they sit and play for a serious length of time, they will not understand. They cannot refer to the knowledge base for an unbiased, full understanding of the game. Therefore parents can only do so much.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This leaves Jagex. If they wish to sugar coat the game in order to attract more paying customers then i feel they need to step up and make this game as they describe it. Safe and educational at least to a certain extent. Without the abuse of bugs and the advocation of things such as luring.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I dont think the author's intention was bad. I think the author loves this game and like many others is sitting and watching it go down hill, while almost all media related to RS is made to seem like RS is the greatest game on earth with no real problem that cant be fixed promptly by their outstanding customer support. Pfft.....

[kill2pleasure]

It seems a few people are concerned that this article makes Jagex look bad, that we should not blame Jagex, but the players.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Granted, some players are the ones who need an attitude adjustment, that goes without saying. However the two major influences in the way the players behave are the parents and Jagex.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The parents have no real clue about the real goings on within Runescape. Unless they sit and play for a serious length of time, they will not understand. They cannot refer to the knowledge base for an unbiased, full understanding of the game. Therefore parents can only do so much.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This leaves Jagex. If they wish to sugar coat the game in order to attract more paying customers then i feel they need to step up and make this game as they describe it. Safe and educational at least to a certain extent. Without the abuse of bugs and the advocation of things such as luring.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I dont think the author's intention was bad. I think the author loves this game and like many others is sitting and watching it go down hill, while almost all media related to RS is made to seem like RS is the greatest game on earth with no real problem that cant be fixed promptly by their outstanding customer support. Pfft.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

well said mate,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

parent need to sit down with the children and read the rules together, even if your kids don't want you to, but into their rs life and check it out, don't g blaming jagex over one paranoid :notalk: :notalk: :wall: :wall: :shame: :shame: parent