Fate: Fact or False?

[darkforaster]

If everything is preplanned out what's the point? It'd be like a roller coaster ride. We get on the thing and know what'll happen. Sure it was a fun ride, but I think in life, the point is for us to choose where the track goes and ends, not some engineer.

 

(I'm fully aware that metaphor I just came up can just as easily be used against me)

 

 

 

We don't know our own destiny, that's why life's exciting. It's preplanned, but we don't know the plan. that's why life intrests us.

[darkforaster]

 

Say you flip a coin and it landed on heads. Whoopie-do, I'm still on my own timeline. Now if that coin landed tails (which it did not in your view) that would be a different timeline (which you can't see) of your own (which you see).

 

 

 

hmm, that goes under the "parrellel timespace" idea. where every action you do has a different "timespace" (or timeline like you put it) where you did something different. (like timespace 1: flip a coin get a heads, and timespace2: flip a coin, you get tails).

 

 

 

but this counter-acts the destiny idea, this is saying you have more than one destiny. whereas your destiny is singular. so i have to disagree with your idea i'm afraid.

[darkforaster]

Some ppl think destiny doesn't exist, theyre the master of their life.

 

Some ppl believe it's all written in advance by some godly power.

 

 

 

Well me, I think our actions forge our destiny. Thus, we still follow a destiny, but a destiny made by ourselves. Haha, right in the middle, and it makes a lot more sense than both theories :

 

 

 

you said you forged your own destiny by your actions. but this is the same as controlling what occurs in thier life. You believe that you are the master of your destiny. therefore is the master of life.

 

 

 

so your the same as the "destiny doesn't exist, they're the master of thier life" people.

[assassin_696]

I think that we cannot predict with any abolsute certainty about what will really happen in the next five minutes, so the idea that our lives are already planned out ahead of us it to me, absurd.

 

 

 

Is it not consistent for you, a materialist, to completely deny free will? If you are a materialist, would you not believe that our thoughts and actions are completely predetermined by other material entities?

 

 

 

I know the Heisenburg uncertainty principle would make our actions impossible to predict, but it doesn't change the fact that we have no control over them?

 

 

 

That's a very interesting question, and i'm honestly not sure what the answer is or will be. At the moment though, I believe consciousness has an important part to play in our free will, and although some people think true AI is ever closer, i'm leaning towards the fact that there is something in our minds which transcends computational processes, and which we cannot explain with present day science. That's why we have genuine free will about our own decisions, although we cannot say for certain whether or not the Universe will follow.

[darkforaster]

oo yay i love these ideas. ok simple answer:

 

 

do i believe in destiny

 

 

 

NO

 

 

 

do i believe in free will?

 

 

 

NO

 

 

 

 

 

 

so you believe that there is no plan for your life, but you don't choose what happens anyway?

 

 

 

that's the same as saying that you believe in the plan. why? simple - you say that there is no choice in what you do in life. which means what's going to happen next has been pre-determined. whihc is the same thing as destiny planning your life.

 

 

 

I'm confused. :?

[warri0r45]

If everything is preplanned out what's the point? It'd be like a roller coaster ride. We get on the thing and know what'll happen. Sure it was a fun ride, but I think in life, the point is for us to choose where the track goes and ends, not some engineer.

 

(I'm fully aware that metaphor I just came up can just as easily be used against me)

 

 

 

We don't know our own destiny, that's why life's exciting. It's preplanned, but we don't know the plan. that's why life intrests us.

 

 

 

What makes you say it's pre-planned? If it is like you say it is then there is no such thing as choice since every 'choice' would just be part of a plan.

[cocacolabottle]

I don't believe in fate, but I know some people who are seriously depressed because they act like no matter what they do they are going to die anyway, because that's their fate. Kindof sad in my opinion, but I think it's best not to worry about these kinds of things, seize the day, like Bubsa said.

[MyPurpleCrayon]

You could die at any moment, at any place, and almost anyway. Five minutes from now you could be dead. And you can die from practically everything you see around you in a plethora of ways.

 

Yeah, I can see how it would be depressing if you had nothing to live and die for.

[fat_hobbit22]

oo yay i love these ideas. ok simple answer:

 

 

do i believe in destiny

 

 

 

NO

 

 

 

do i believe in free will?

 

 

 

NO

 

 

 

 

 

 

so you believe that there is no plan for your life, but you don't choose what happens anyway?

 

 

 

that's the same as saying that you believe in the plan. why? simple - you say that there is no choice in what you do in life. which means what's going to happen next has been pre-determined. whihc is the same thing as destiny planning your life.

 

 

 

I'm confused. :?

 

 

 

lol, erm not really, i dont bleieve destiny exists but i do believe my life has been in some sense pre determined. Its like i chose what i get to do as long as i chose plan a, b, c or d. so i have a tiny bit of choice...

 

i dont belive in destiny its just an idiots way to sum up a lot of choices made nothing is predetermined, and you can neithier prove nor disprove it, but logic does dictate that it isnt.

 

 

 

p.s. rebdragon can u please keep your posts less hostile, im not wageing a war against you i just dont agree with you.

[Achilleus]

I think that we cannot predict with any abolsute certainty about what will really happen in the next five minutes, so the idea that our lives are already planned out ahead of us it to me, absurd.

 

 

 

Is it not consistent for you, a materialist, to completely deny free will? If you are a materialist, would you not believe that our thoughts and actions are completely predetermined by other material entities?

 

 

 

I know the Heisenburg uncertainty principle would make our actions impossible to predict, but it doesn't change the fact that we have no control over them?

 

 

 

 

 

Were Robots made by another species : <<< or we could just be in a computer game

 

 

 

That's a very interesting question, and i'm honestly not sure what the answer is or will be. At the moment though, I believe consciousness has an important part to play in our free will, and although some people think true AI is ever closer, i'm leaning towards the fact that there is something in our minds which transcends computational processes, and which we cannot explain with present day science. That's why we have genuine free will about our own decisions, although we cannot say for certain whether or not the Universe will follow.

[bbalking]

Our minds are blank when we are conceived, over the 9 months we apparently begin to pick up things, apparently if your mother spent all her time watching a soap opera you would either dislike it or like it. I don't agree with this 1 bit but i do believe we were born with blank minds and we pick up interests by what we have viewed/heard about.

[Ragen]

I had the freakiest thought last night. When I die I will stop feeling, I will stop existing. I wont even live on in memories because what I am, my soul, my consciousness will have vanished. I've had this thought before but it hit me again last night and it really hurt. I then also realised that there was only a limited ammount of time for which I would exist and afterwards I would never be alive, I would never think or breath or feel anything. In a minute, or a day or 60 years, I'm going to end and not start again.

 

Then I felt the biggest rush I've ever felt, I knew that I was alive and I was going to milk life for everything it had. I knew that for this short time I have, I am going to call the shots and I can do anything if I work at it.

 

I also realised that if I die, nothing matters anymore as I wont be here to deal with the consequences. This basically meant to me that I shouldn't be afraid of death and therefore anything in this life.

 

It was very much a fresh start for me and I'm looking at life totally differently. I'm doing what I want, not rolling along the train tracks anymore.

[Achilleus]

I had the freakiest thought last night. When I die I will stop feeling, I will stop existing. I wont even live on in memories because what I am, my soul, my consciousness will have vanished. I've had this thought before but it hit me again last night and it really hurt. I then also realised that there was only a limited ammount of time for which I would exist and afterwards I would never be alive, I would never think or breath or feel anything. In a minute, or a day or 60 years, I'm going to end and not start again.

 

Then I felt the biggest rush I've ever felt, I knew that I was alive and I was going to milk life for everything it had. I knew that for this short time I have, I am going to call the shots and I can do anything if I work at it.

 

I also realised that if I die, nothing matters anymore as I wont be here to deal with the consequences. This basically meant to me that I shouldn't be afraid of death and therefore anything in this life.

 

It was very much a fresh start for me and I'm looking at life totally differently. I'm doing what I want, not rolling along the train tracks anymore.

 

 

 

 

 

You say know one will remember you. Thats not exactly tru..I mean look at Jesus

 

 

 

 

 

But I now have the same rush as you...thinking about how little time we have left

 

 

 

 

 

But we do not actually no if there is life after death....sooooo there could be..you never know :wink:

[darkforaster]

oo yay i love these ideas. ok simple answer:

 

 

do i believe in destiny

 

 

 

NO

 

 

 

do i believe in free will?

 

 

 

NO

 

 

 

 

 

 

so you believe that there is no plan for your life, but you don't choose what happens anyway?

 

 

 

that's the same as saying that you believe in the plan. why? simple - you say that there is no choice in what you do in life. which means what's going to happen next has been pre-determined. whihc is the same thing as destiny planning your life.

 

 

 

I'm confused. :?

 

 

 

lol, erm not really, i dont bleieve destiny exists but i do believe my life has been in some sense pre determined. Its like i chose what i get to do as long as i chose plan a, b, c or d. so i have a tiny bit of choice...

 

i dont belive in destiny its just an idiots way to sum up a lot of choices made nothing is predetermined, and you can neithier prove nor disprove it, but logic does dictate that it isnt.

 

 

 

p.s. rebdragon can u please keep your posts less hostile, im not wageing a war against you i just dont agree with you.

 

 

 

so you now believe in both? the pre-planned and the ability to choose what happens. you just believe them in slightly different ways that the average person would.

[darkforaster]

I had the freakiest thought last night. When I die I will stop feeling, I will stop existing. I wont even live on in memories because what I am, my soul, my consciousness will have vanished. I've had this thought before but it hit me again last night and it really hurt. I then also realised that there was only a limited ammount of time for which I would exist and afterwards I would never be alive, I would never think or breath or feel anything. In a minute, or a day or 60 years, I'm going to end and not start again.

 

Then I felt the biggest rush I've ever felt, I knew that I was alive and I was going to milk life for everything it had. I knew that for this short time I have, I am going to call the shots and I can do anything if I work at it.

 

I also realised that if I die, nothing matters anymore as I wont be here to deal with the consequences. This basically meant to me that I shouldn't be afraid of death and therefore anything in this life.

 

It was very much a fresh start for me and I'm looking at life totally differently. I'm doing what I want, not rolling along the train tracks anymore.

 

 

 

Did this thread inspire that? or was it mere coincedence?

 

 

 

if it did. \ :thumbsup: . if it didn't :| =D>

 

 

 

I hope you live life to the full. accomplish your dreams and die happily.

[fat_hobbit22]

so you now believe in both? the pre-planned and the ability to choose what happens. you just believe them in slightly different ways that the average person would.

 

 

 

no free will doesnt exit and neithier does destiny there both illisuions. An idiots way to explain something they can not understand or chose to deny, just like God in my eyes. Im blunt and to the point.

[darkforaster]

so you now believe in both? the pre-planned and the ability to choose what happens. you just believe them in slightly different ways that the average person would.

 

 

 

no free will doesnt exit and neithier does destiny there both illisuions. An idiots way to explain something they can not understand or chose to deny, just like God in my eyes. Im blunt and to the point.

 

 

 

that post disagrees with what you previously put. because you DID say that you could CHOOSE a PLAN e.g PLAN a,b,c or d.

 

 

 

that's a bit harsh don't you think? who knows? they could be right. You could be wrong. then it would be the other way round. you don't need to insult people for what they believe in. it's wrong.

 

 

 

I could say the same about you. but i hold back.

[Rebdragon]

p.s. rebdragon can u please keep your posts less hostile, im not wageing a war against you i just dont agree with you.

 

Fine, but you have to at least respond to me post:

 

which backs up my point about free will, we are going to die, we chose how but we will die, if i had free will i would be able to chose not to die.

 

Ah yes, I can't snap this planet in half with my bare hands, so I must not have free will.

 

 

 

You're assuming that because you can't choose to give yourself any kind of power, such as immortality, you don't have free will? This path of logic started... where?

[fat_hobbit22]

p.s. rebdragon can u please keep your posts less hostile, im not wageing a war against you i just dont agree with you.

 

Fine, but you have to at least respond to me post:

 

which backs up my point about free will, we are going to die, we chose how but we will die, if i had free will i would be able to chose not to die.

 

Ah yes, I can't snap this planet in half with my bare hands, so I must not have free will.

 

 

 

You're assuming that because you can't choose to give yourself any kind of power, such as immortality, you don't have free will? This path of logic started... where?

 

 

 

lol free will is an illusion you dont have free will in prison do you but you can still chose which people you will hang out with. Its similiar, you may think you have free will but you don't.

 

 

 

At what point were we talking about snaping the planet in half. The first guy said our destiny is to die, you said but if i kill myself now then i beat destiny, i said no because your still dead. then i said thats like free will, you obviously think we have the free will to chose what we want, when we quite clearley dont, if you dont believe dieing is your destiny then you would have the free will to live right? to which you reply no because dieing is inevitable, which proves my point, then you said but thats not a good arfument because im not saying that im trying to deny the laws of nature, im just saying i have free will, which is off topic because im not saying that you can, you seem to think that you can avoid your fate of dieing, whch is against the laws of nature, so i used the same example as you.

 

(to all the grammer nazis ~ i cant be assed to check my spelling it takes long enough to type that as it is, im not going to put it in word to correct the mistakes, i really dont care enough)

[deloriagod]

 

lol free will is an illusion you dont have free will in prison do you

 

 

 

American prisons aren't that bad.. However you can do whatever you want, you just have to face the consequences.

[BlueLancer]

I prefer making real choices, because frankly that's all that matters. I don't care if my horoscope says "this week will be a bad one for you financially" or "you will lose a close one", just keep going on about your business, very likely nothing will happen at all.

 

 

 

Unless you subconsciously believe that stuff and try to work towards being hit by a car etc. :?

 

 

 

Think about people who get in accidents in the first place like getting hit by a car: It's not fate, it's their choice. Say, if they left their house just 10 seconds later (dropped their keys and searched them, or something) the car would've already passed and nobody would've been hurt.

 

 

 

Or if somebody called them and they stopped walking for a while.. Or if you had a spur of the moment thing and changed the route to your destination.

 

 

 

They were just in the wrong place at the wrong time, like an ant that accidently gets crushed under your shoe. It's not 'fate', your presence is a sum of choices you made. (But you're free to believe what you want.)

 

 

 

-------------

 

 

 

Edit- Inanimate objects can have a fate though, like distant planets or stars that will very likely have a life span, move predictably, then explode. I was referring to humans lives that are often hardly predictable at all. There's no way to predict all the lives of almost 7 billion people.

[Nenga]

This is one of those age old questions.

 

 

 

I belive we have free will until it interfers with 'the force' as you call it. Most people call it God though.

[insane]

Edit- Inanimate objects can have a fate though, like distant planets or stars that will very likely have a life span, move predictably, then explode. I was referring to humans lives that are often hardly predictable at all. There's no way to predict all the lives of almost 7 billion people.

 

 

 

Fate is not the same as being able to predict the future. Fate is being unable to change the future, even though you do not know what the future will hold.

 

 

 

Are you a materialist? If you are, then what is the difference between an animate and an inanimate object that makes animate objects have "free will"?

[Giordano]

 

but this counter-acts the destiny idea, this is saying you have more than one destiny. whereas your destiny is singular. so i have to disagree with your idea i'm afraid.

 

You only 'see' one timeline. You can't just go to timeline 540 and meet your girlfriend Sam and go back to timeline 6810 and meet your girlfriend Susan. You're 'destiny' is that one timeline you're, and we, are currently in. You can not see the other timelines, only think about them.

 

 

 

So pretty much its just subituting the word destiny. Example: Luke's destiny was to join the Dark Side. He had two choices though, Light or Dark. He choose Light. He's on the timeline with him in the Light Side. He can't see himself in the Dark Side Timeline, only think (imagene, dream) him in the Dark Side Timeline.

[Rebdragon]

Fate and free will can coexist :| .

 

stuff

 

I'm not referring to death being inevitable when I talk about fate. When I refer to fate, I mean the fact that one's actions during their life are preditermined. Basically, I don't see a point in bringing death into an argument about free will and fate; we're talking about choices, not inevitable facts.