The most extreme Muslim, however...Considers themselves obligated to kill people. Namely Americans, Jews, and Zionists. Oh, and probably gay people. Just 'cause.

 

Well, I can tell you your job as another Christian isn't to judge others. Yes, I am Christian. It's awfully close minded to bash another religion like that; how many innocent Muslims will it take to convince the world that they're not all extremist terrorists?

 

 

 

You seem to miss where I said "extreme" and "Muslim". I'm fully aware not all Muslims are terrorists, la-de-da...etc etc. Everyone knows.

 

 

 

There are moderate Muslims just like there are moderate Christians. Some Muslim's don't follow the "Behead the disbelievers" and "Where ever you see Jews and Christians, slay them" (or whatever) passages, just like some most Christians don't follow the "Stone adulterers" (does anyone do that anymore, actually? Lol.) and...Well, the stoning of various other groups.

 

 

 

This time, however, you're quite welcome to note the difference where I said "some Muslims" and "most Christians", implying that there are less moderate Muslims than there are moderate Christians, which I'd have no trouble believing is 100% true. Most Muslim's reside in Muslim countries where a lot of people are not practicing these things, but they won't necessarily snear at someone who is.

 

 

 

Also, even if I was being mean about their religion, I have every right to NOT like their religion. No law says I have to like everyones religion besides the PC law that says if I don't, I'm a [bleep]....Oh well? :P

Ah yes, but we can't have religious extremists with nuclear weapons can we?

 

 

 

*Glances at Ultra Rightwing Americain Christians.*

 

 

 

:roll:

 

 

 

Even the most extreme Christian knows you can't kill a person.

 

 

 

FAIL

 

 

 

Mmmhmm.

 

 

 

I remember this one insane lady that got interviewed in Fox saying that the soldiers dying in Iraq deserved to die because they are going against what their fundamentalist nterpretation of God teaches.

 

 

 

And we also can't forget that the KKK and some racist groups out there are more than willing to organize a lynching mob if they could get away with it.

 

 

 

Oh well crap... we just turned this thread into another religious thread, didn't we?

 

 

 

I say we lynch Imba! He started it!

 

 

 

Again, not Christians. Do you believe God would accept such acts as Christianity? Hell, even other Christians think those people are [developmentally delayed]ed. If you ask me, my personal opinion is that they're not even a branch of Christianity anymore...They are now...uhhh...An anti-gay cult, or somethin'.

 

 

 

And the KKK? Seriously? Honestly now, don't get me started on those people.

 

 

 

Also, I forgot to address...The Muslim community is also fully capable of dismissing extremists and non-Muslims as well, but it seems like that doesn't happen as much as it should be. Of course if these people are deciding to kill others, they're no longer practicer's of the claimed "Religion of Peace" anyways, are they? Well, it seems that more times than not, these acts are not necessarily comdemned full-stop. Not in Muslim countries ESPECIALLY. Most western Muslims are of COURSE not extremists and are quite moderate, and I am not talking about these people. I personally live in a community that is absolutely saturated with Muslims from Somalia, and I'm not like...Scared or anything. That's because they're not extremists.

You seem to miss where I said "extreme" and "Muslim". I'm fully aware not all Muslims are terrorists, la-de-da...etc etc. Everyone knows.

 

It wasn't what you said, it was how you said it. Especially with the "and gay people too", which was when I decided to respond. But as long as you know the yada-yada about extremism and moderation.

 

 

 

Also, even if I was being mean about their religion, I have every right to NOT like their religion. No law says I have to like everyones religion besides the PC law that says if I don't, I'm a [bleep]....Oh well? :P

 

Well, if us and them weren't [bleep] to each other's religion, we wouldn't be sitting here worrying about Iran tossing nukes around, would we?

You seem to miss where I said "extreme" and "Muslim". I'm fully aware not all Muslims are terrorists, la-de-da...etc etc. Everyone knows.

 

It wasn't what you said, it was how you said it. Especially with the "and gay people too", which was when I decided to respond. But as long as you know the yada-yada about extremism and moderation.

 

 

 

Also, even if I was being mean about their religion, I have every right to NOT like their religion. No law says I have to like everyones religion besides the PC law that says if I don't, I'm a [bleep]....Oh well? :P

 

Well, if us and them weren't [bleep] to each other's religion, we wouldn't be sitting here worrying about Iran tossing nukes around, would we?

 

 

 

Yes, we would be! ;)

 

 

 

Us saying Islam sucks and that Muhammed was a pedo has little to do with why they dislike us. They dislike us because they feel Israel is occupying their lands or whatever, and we are supporters of Israel. Never mind the fact, of course...That Muslims have attacked Israel many times and Israel has even taken some of their land after winning and been ordered by the UN to give it back. Never before has someone won a war, took the spoils of [wagon]-kickery and then been asked to give them back to the losers. :lol:

 

 

 

In short, Muslims will always hate us because we will continue to support Israel, and they'll always hate Israel because they believe Israel is on their land or whatever.

 

 

 

I'm not much a geography nor a history buff, but haven't the Jews been in that land since...Umm...The beginning of recorded history? When did the Muslims ever claim this land? :P

You seem to miss where I said "extreme" and "Muslim". I'm fully aware not all Muslims are terrorists, la-de-da...etc etc. Everyone knows.

 

It wasn't what you said, it was how you said it. Especially with the "and gay people too", which was when I decided to respond. But as long as you know the yada-yada about extremism and moderation.

 

 

 

Also, even if I was being mean about their religion, I have every right to NOT like their religion. No law says I have to like everyones religion besides the PC law that says if I don't, I'm a [bleep]....Oh well? :P

 

Well, if us and them weren't [bleep] to each other's religion, we wouldn't be sitting here worrying about Iran tossing nukes around, would we?

 

 

 

Yes, we would be! ;)

 

 

 

 

 

Us saying Islam sucks and that Muhammed was a pedo has little to do with why they dislike us. They dislike us because they feel Israel is occupying their lands or whatever, and we are supporters of Israel. Never mind the fact, of course...That Muslims have attacked Israel many times and Israel has even taken some of their land after winning and been ordered by the UN to give it back. Never before has someone won a war, took the spoils of [wagon]-kickery and then been asked to give them back to the losers. :lol:

 

 

 

In short, Muslims will always hate us because we will continue to support Israel, and they'll always hate Israel because they believe Israel is on their land or whatever.

 

 

 

I'm not much a geography nor a history buff, but haven't the Jews been in that land since...Umm...The beginning of recorded history? When did the Muslims ever claim this land? :P

 

 

 

To awnser your question, no the Jews have not been i that land continuously since the beginning of recorder history. They started there and occupied the space until around when the Roman Empire fell, at which point they were forced out by the muslims, who stayed in charge for quite awhile. They slowly moved back into the area in the years before world war two, at which point they were given their own counntry, Isreal, by the winners of the war in 1948.

You seem to miss where I said "extreme" and "Muslim". I'm fully aware not all Muslims are terrorists, la-de-da...etc etc. Everyone knows.

 

It wasn't what you said, it was how you said it. Especially with the "and gay people too", which was when I decided to respond. But as long as you know the yada-yada about extremism and moderation.

 

 

 

Also, even if I was being mean about their religion, I have every right to NOT like their religion. No law says I have to like everyones religion besides the PC law that says if I don't, I'm a [bleep]....Oh well? :P

 

Well, if us and them weren't [bleep] to each other's religion, we wouldn't be sitting here worrying about Iran tossing nukes around, would we?

 

 

 

Yes, we would be! ;)

 

 

 

 

 

Us saying Islam sucks and that Muhammed was a pedo has little to do with why they dislike us. They dislike us because they feel Israel is occupying their lands or whatever, and we are supporters of Israel. Never mind the fact, of course...That Muslims have attacked Israel many times and Israel has even taken some of their land after winning and been ordered by the UN to give it back. Never before has someone won a war, took the spoils of [wagon]-kickery and then been asked to give them back to the losers. :lol:

 

 

 

In short, Muslims will always hate us because we will continue to support Israel, and they'll always hate Israel because they believe Israel is on their land or whatever.

 

 

 

I'm not much a geography nor a history buff, but haven't the Jews been in that land since...Umm...The beginning of recorded history? When did the Muslims ever claim this land? :P

 

 

 

To awnser your question, no the Jews have not been i that land continuously since the beginning of recorder history. They started there and occupied the space until around when the Roman Empire fell, at which point they were forced out by the muslims, who stayed in charge for quite awhile. They slowly moved back into the area in the years before world war two, at which point they were given their own counntry, Isreal, by the winners of the war in 1948.

 

 

 

Yea, I know that...What I meant was...It was originally Jewish land. Muslims took it over. Since when does taking something make it your birth-right?

 

 

 

*Waits for someone to say the exact same thing about Americans* :P

Its spelled Tehran.

I fell that an independent Kosovo whould have a bigger impact and bigger chanch for a new war right now, but than agian Rockefeller does want's Iran oil, so he be able to stop it's drilling and rise oil price's more.

Flamecaller, stop turning this into a fairly baseless generalised religion debate. I appreciate it's related but we've had enough of those, let's just stick on topic.

 

 

 

@Necro: You raise some very interesting points, i'll give them a little more consideration before I reply, i'm not really sure what my views are on this.

Isreal only wants to live in peace where its at.. all its neighbors around it who seem to have a personal problem with it being there just because their jealous or from personal hatred.

 

 

 

 

I think you don't quite grasp the complexity of the conflicts in the middle east.

 

 

 

Another thing though is the fact that there ahs been no proof offered that Iran is even going to develop the weapons. Anyone remember Iraq abotu all that flimsy evidence offered?

 

 

 

True

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The US can't invade Iran or drop bombs on it. That would be political suicide. Unlike the Iraq, Iran is a democratic country that holds regular free elections. Also Iran has decent diplomatic relationships with a couple of european countries.

 

 

 

The boyfriend of my sister happens to be a persian, so i know a thing or two about that country. My sister even went on holidays there. I have a very hard time to understand how the Iran belongs to the "axis of evil". If i were a Persian i'd be pretty pissed off about that statement.

I notice you've highlighted Russia in that list of people with nukes, as though they're in with the Americans when it comes to nuclear proliferation. To Russia's credit (although it was probably more of a propaganda campagin by Putin to be perfectly honest), Putin has actually held the Americans up when it comes to the Middle East on several ocasions, publically telling the world that it's unfair America is allowed to build tens of thousands of nuclear weapons, and then for America to tell any other country they're not allowed. You have to remember Russians probably make up getting onto a half of the Isreali population, so Russia's influence is felt in the Middle-East.

 

 

 

I personally feel America's stance on this has nothing to do with security. Certainly, America's actions are not those of protectionism, at least not in a military context anyway. Provoking the Iranians and making them angry is not only a threat to America, but also a threat to the campaign in neighbouring Iraq, so America's actions make little sense. I feel this is completely down to oil. America knows full well that if Iran became capable of building nuclear weapons, Iran would consequentially be able to turn round to the Americans, and tell them to get out of Iran. They wouldn't lose any trade, not when Britain, China and the whole of Europe are desperate for the stuff.

 

 

 

In short, this is just down to the USA wanting to keep a tightfist control of the situation in the Middle-East. I look at this and I actually think, "Why does America agree with the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty?". Do I seriously believe the leaders of the world's biggest superpower signed up to it out of some moral obligation? Of course I don't. It's America's way of ensuring they have a weapon only four other states joined to that treaty also have, and then effectively banning its use anywhere else. Then they'll tell the world, "It's for our own protection - the fact the Middle East has barrel loads of oil has nothing whatsoever to do with it".

 

 

 

That's the way I feel about it.

 

Um, no? Did you read the rest of what I said? If you think killing someone is okay, and try to justify it somehow using Christianity...You cease to be a Christian. Would you let someone be in your guild and be runnni' around scamming people saying it was in the name of your guild? Surely not, and I'd imagine God (if he exists) is the same way. The Crusades, for example...Were done by people calling themselves Christians, but how many went to Heaven? Zero.

 

 

 

Same with Muslim. You can't justify killing with religion. IF you do, you aren't a Muslim.

 

 

 

Do not even begin to say who goes to heaven. Heck, we cannot even say who is Christian and who is Muslim. The fact is they are bad people. What you fail to understand is that Islam is quite similar to Christianity. Maybe Islam has a few more problems with its more extreme members, but essentially they are the same.

 

 

 

 

You seem to miss where I said "extreme" and "Muslim". I'm fully aware not all Muslims are terrorists, la-de-da...etc etc. Everyone knows.

 

 

 

There are moderate Muslims just like there are moderate Christians. Some Muslim's don't follow the "Behead the disbelievers" and "Where ever you see Jews and Christians, slay them" (or whatever) passages, just like some most Christians don't follow the "Stone adulterers" (does anyone do that anymore, actually? Lol.) and...Well, the stoning of various other groups.

 

 

 

This time, however, you're quite welcome to note the difference where I said "some Muslims" and "most Christians", implying that there are less moderate Muslims than there are moderate Christians, which I'd have no trouble believing is 100% true. Most Muslim's reside in Muslim countries where a lot of people are not practicing these things, but they won't necessarily snear at someone who is.

 

 

 

Also, even if I was being mean about their religion, I have every right to NOT like their religion. No law says I have to like everyones religion besides the PC law that says if I don't, I'm a [bleep]....Oh well? :P

 

 

 

Most Muslims are NOT arabs, FYI. I dont care if you dont like my religion, but I have every right to call you ignorant for the reasons you dislike it. There are many moderate Christians and moderate Muslims. I think you fall in to the category "I watch Fox too much and all I see is Muslims bombing people". FYI (again) that's not what really happens.

 

 

 

They do "snear" at people who give them a bad name. It's the fact that they cant do anything to stop them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Again, not Christians. Do you believe God would accept such acts as Christianity? Hell, even other Christians think those people are [developmentally delayed]. If you ask me, my personal opinion is that they're not even a branch of Christianity anymore...They are now...uhhh...An anti-gay cult, or somethin'.

 

 

 

And the KKK? Seriously? Honestly now, don't get me started on those people.

 

 

 

Also, I forgot to address...The Muslim community is also fully capable of dismissing extremists and non-Muslims as well, but it seems like that doesn't happen as much as it should be. Of course if these people are deciding to kill others, they're no longer practicer's of the claimed "Religion of Peace" anyways, are they? Well, it seems that more times than not, these acts are not necessarily comdemned full-stop. Not in Muslim countries ESPECIALLY. Most western Muslims are of COURSE not extremists and are quite moderate, and I am not talking about these people. I personally live in a community that is absolutely saturated with Muslims from Somalia, and I'm not like...Scared or anything. That's because they're not extremists.

 

 

 

No you just believe everything you read.

 

 

 

The real problem I have with you which isn't exactly your fault is that you believe whatever someone tells you. Do you know how many times mosques and "non-extremists" have tried to share their views with the rest of the world? Do you know how much media attention they get? 0.

 

 

 

How many of you live in Canada? How many of you remember July 1st? It was a great day. In my hometown of Edmonton, the Muslims held the CANADA DAY breakfast and supplied food for the entire city. We TRY to show our views. We TRY to outdo the extremists in media attention. We fail because our care doesn't sell. All you hear is the people bombing this and that. You dont hear about the Muslims living their lives like regular people. And this is why you are ignorant.

 

 

 

 

Yes, we would be! ;)

 

 

 

Us saying Islam sucks and that Muhammed was a pedo has little to do with why they dislike us. They dislike us because they feel Israel is occupying their lands or whatever, and we are supporters of Israel. Never mind the fact, of course...That Muslims have attacked Israel many times and Israel has even taken some of their land after winning and been ordered by the UN to give it back. Never before has someone won a war, took the spoils of [wagon]-kickery and then been asked to give them back to the losers. :lol:

 

 

 

In short, Muslims will always hate us because we will continue to support Israel, and they'll always hate Israel because they believe Israel is on their land or whatever.

 

 

 

I'm not much a geography nor a history buff, but haven't the Jews been in that land since...Umm...The beginning of recorded history? When did the Muslims ever claim this land? :P

 

 

 

We don't hate America (the majority). We hate some of your foreign policies which has little if not nothing to do with religion.

 

 

 

Reason for Israel? Muslims feel threatened that the WESTERN world can come into their land, take it, and give it to some foreigners. Yeah, it's not like Israel had been there forever. They left, Muslims came back, and now you throw a bunch of people there to take over? WTF!! That's how they feel. Yes, I AGREE with them, but I do not agree with the approach they are taking to do it. Going back to nukes, I think this will make the Middle East and America negotiate and maybe even cooperate.

 

 

 

Flamecaller, stop turning this into a fairly baseless generalised religion debate. I appreciate it's related but we've had enough of those, let's just stick on topic.

 

 

Start a topic, Flame, if you want to "argue" more about this.

Instead of giving nukes to everyone, how about just deactivating all of them? Nuclear power is great as a power resource, but it's a disgrace to use it as a weapon.

 

 

 

Same with Muslim. You can't justify killing with religion.

 

 

 

Mohammad did.

This reminds me of a saying one of teachers used;

 

"It's better to have them in the tent pissing out instead of throwing them out of the tent and them pissing in."

 

 

 

The only way forward with Iran and North Korea is to engage them in negotiations. By expelling them from the diplomatic process all you do is create further resentment within the country which can (and will) be used by it's leader and instill the government with a resilience to do what they want.

 

 

 

Negotiation works in the long run, look at whats happened with Libya in the last few years. Could you have imagined Libya would be as co-operative as they have been recently 20 years ago? No because at that time the west decided it was best to completely shun Libya and ultimately it didn't work.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Same with Muslim. You can't justify killing with religion.

 

 

 

Mohammad did.

 

 

 

 

 

So does the bible. A literal reading of several religions can justify murder.

Instead of giving nukes to everyone, how about just deactivating all of them? Nuclear power is great as a power resource, but it's a disgrace to use it as a weapon.

 

 

 

 

"I wont do it until you do it first."

 

"Haha, I have nukes you dont"

So does the bible. A literal reading of several religions can justify murder.

 

 

 

What does it matter? By hiding behind Christianity, does that make Islam less violent?

 

 

 

Try not to use strawmen in arguments, it makes you look stupid

 

 

 

"I wont do it until you do it first."

 

"Haha, I have nukes you dont"

 

 

 

Way to ignore my post

So does the bible. A literal reading of several religions can justify murder.

 

 

 

What does it matter? By hiding behind Christianity, does that make Islam less violent?

 

 

 

Try not to use strawmen in arguments, it makes you look stupid

 

 

 

"I wont do it until you do it first."

 

"Haha, I have nukes you dont"

 

 

 

Way to ignore my post

 

 

 

I think you're so cool.

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT:

 

 

 

I was responding to:

 

Instead of giving nukes to everyone, how about just deactivating all of them? Nuclear power is great as a power resource, but it's a disgrace to use it as a weapon.

 

 

 

 

Yeah...

So does the bible. A literal reading of several religions can justify murder.

 

 

 

What does it matter? By hiding behind Christianity, does that make Islam less violent?

 

 

 

Try not to use strawmen in arguments, it makes you look stupid

 

 

 

 

What I was clearly pointing out was that the problem is not the religion but literalism and fundamentalism as is the case with every religion.

 

 

 

Try to stop throwing around your little insults every time somebody disagrees with you, it just makes you seem like an unreasonable brat.

Point all you want, but it's still fallacious. Which is why I said you looked stupid because that doesn't refute what I said in any way at all - which is how you acted. Looking stupid is normal you know, I just did when I called out your red herring a strawman.

 

 

 

I'm sorry if you took that the wrong way, but I was just giving you a tip. You sound inexperienced with debates :-\

 

 

 

 

 

@Darkmage, I would prefer if you just send appreciation to my inbox :) It spams this thread which is sad because the threadstarter obviously put effort into it.

 

 

 

edit:

 

 

 

 

I was responding to:

 

Instead of giving nukes to everyone, how about just deactivating all of them? Nuclear power is great as a power resource, but it's a disgrace to use it as a weapon.

 

 

 

 

Yeah...

 

 

 

You ignored the part directed to you. If you're going to claim something, at least argue it

Point all you want, but it's still fallacious. Which is why I said you looked stupid because that doesn't refute what I said in any way at all - which is how you acted. Looking stupid is normal you know, I just did when I called out your red herring a strawman.

 

 

 

I'm sorry if you took that the wrong way, but I was just giving you a tip. You sound inexperienced with debates :-\

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You didn't offend me on a personal level don't worry about that. As for being inexperienced in debate, I'm old enough and have been posting on these boards long enough to put across my point.At the end of the day I just think you're wrong on this though.

Moving back on-topic... :wink:

 

 

 

So does the bible. A literal reading of several religions can justify murder.

 

 

 

What does it matter? By hiding behind Christianity, does that make Islam less violent?

 

It matters because if we take this into a religious debate, then there's double standards that clearly exist. It's OK for the Western 'civilised' predominantly Christian world to have nukes and to declare war in the name of democracy, but if an Islamic nation starts to even show signs of doing either of those two, they must be quelled due to the messages and actions of a few extremists who claim to be belonging to that religion.

 

 

 

Both Islam and Christianity advocate violence in certain situations. It'd be foolish to say either of them is less or more violent than the other quite frankly. That's just too much of a generalisation and doesn't take into account the various branches of each religion.

It matters because if we take this into a religious debate, then there's double standards that clearly exist. It's OK for the Western 'civilised' predominantly Christian world to have nukes and to declare war in the name of democracy, but if an Islamic nation starts to even show signs of doing either of those two, they must be quelled due to the messages and actions of a few extremists who claim to be belonging to that religion.

 

 

 

Both Islam and Christianity advocate violence in certain situations. It'd be foolish to say either of them is less or more violent than the other quite frankly. That's just too much of a generalisation and doesn't take into account the various branches of each religion.

 

 

 

The thing you need to understand is that Christianity plays a lot less in politics than Islam does in the Middle East.

 

 

 

Christianity is just a tool used by politicians to get them voted in. After that, it's all about the corporations. The reason the US is in the Middle East is for the resources, not to spread Christianity, not because God said so, but because of the oil. Openly as well, it's no secret to us.

 

 

 

In the Middle East, Islam is used extensively to get people to join terrorist groups, to get suicide bombers, because no one - no one - insults Muhammad and gets away with it. No infidel can attack the Arabic land and gets away with it. And all that propaganda jazz that (enough) Muslims eat up.

 

 

 

I hate religion altogether (I was born a Christian but denounced that because I don't believe in Jesus), but if you're going to defend Islam, don't hide it behind Christianity because it's just not the same.

Darkmage:

 

 

 

First off, I'd like to know how you figure most Muslims are not currently living in Muslim countries (which is what I said). If I had to make a guesstimate, I'd actually say there are more black Muslims than there are Arabs, but I'm not sure. But at any rate, I never said "Most Muslims are Arabs."

 

 

 

Before I say my next thing, I'd like to acknowledge the fact that you're not some psycho terrorist...And I know that. However, here is why killing in the name of Islam and killing in the name of Christianity are NOT the same, they are quite different:

 

 

 

1) Christianity has an old and new testament. The old testament is the only one that talks about killing another for any reason. The new testament has no such talk. Why? Because Jesus came and atoned for the sins of man. We no longer are obligated to kill anyone for any reason, because all the offender has to do is ask for forgiveness (well, and actually mean it and not go off doing it again...) from Jesus, and their sins are cleansed.

 

 

 

2) Islam has no such atonement that I am aware of. You do not ask Muhammed for forgiveness for your sins. You have no atonement, and hence sinners must be punished according to your book still. If it's in there, you should be doing it. If you're not, one could easily ask "Then how are you a Muslim?" and you wouldn't be able to answer. At best, you're a moderate Muslim who merely believes Allah is the creator and la-de-da and you worship him, but you basically don't follow everything the book says. I personally consider that a good thing, but yea.

 

 

 

3) So, when the Bible says "Stone adulterers" and you ask us why we do not follow that command, or use it as reference to Christianity being "violent", that can be argued and quickly put to rest by us explaining Jesus' atonement for our sins. We don't have to do those things. They're no longer valid. You, however, have no such atonement, so when I ask "Why do you not kill the Jews and Christians where you see them?" you can't say anything except "Because I'm not a killer." which doesn't change anything. Your book still says you're supposed to. There are no translation mess-ups or any of that crap. It clearly says it. Have you read the Qu'ran? It says a lot of wacky crap. One could argue the Bible does as well, but I've read them both in a completely unbiased manner and...Ehhh...Sorry, Islam is quite more wacky. :P

 

 

 

Jesus died for the sins of us all, and your religion acknowledges him only as a mere "prophet" and then puts Mohammed above him, even though Mohammed is just a mere "prophet" according to your religion as well. Jesus was also a Jew, and Muslims claim to love Jesus for his work from God, but then will have no problems calling Jews "swine" and "apes". Hypocrites much? Maybe you personally don't do this, but even in your post I can tell you do not like Jews and Westerners in general by your mere astonishment that Jews are allowed to live in Israel. This is not Muslim land...Muslims therefore do not deserve to live there. Just because Muslims lived there once does not mean it is their land. I found it odd that you said "Jews left and Muslims moved BACK" as if Muslims were there before and the Jews drove them out...That is quite hilarious. You call me out as someone who puts too much faith in propaganda? Please...As if you are not guilty of that as well? My view on Islam may be a little warped due to the media (I don't watch Fox by the way, I watch CNN. Fox is for right-wing turdlettes. :P) but your view on things is warped just by being a Muslim. How is that different?

 

 

 

And I can say exactly who will go to Heaven and who will not. I know. Why do you not know? It's quite clear...144,000 people from the 12 tribes of Israel will go to Heaven. BAM! There it is. Says so in the Bible. You, of course, believe the Torah/Bible is corrupted, even though we found the Dead Sea Scrolls in 1948 and they match perfectly with what we have today...And they're over 2,000 years old...Older than your entire religion...Keep in mind God himself said he'd preserve his word "forever and ever". If you believe God wrote all of these books, yours included, then why in the world are you worshiping from the wrong, false book? Just curious. Anyways, continuing on...144,000 from the 12 tribes of Israel go to Heaven. Everyone else who accepted Jesus lives eternally in peace and happiness on Earth. Everyone else lives in eternal severance from God. Let me just say that I don't believe in Hell...I believe Hell is a metaphor for the pain of being separated from God for eternity. Seems like a just punishment instead of being morbid and saying everyone is going to burn in fire or whatever, something I fully believe God wouldn't do.

 

 

 

I also believe something else that maybe no one else does...That the acceptance of Jesus can be metaphorical too. Your can say "I accept Jesus and love him with all my heart" all you want and it could mean nothing if you don't mean it, so why should it be assumed you HAVE to proclaim it and say it aloud? Is not living exactly how Jesus lived essentially "accepting" him? I don't know, maybe there's something I missed that says you have to invite Jesus over to dinner or something. *Shrug*

 

 

 

That's all I got to say.

 

 

 

If you guys consider this "OT-SPAMZ!!1" then create a topic about this and I'll be more than happy to post in it. However, I will not make one myself because I don't want to be "The idiot who started another religious topic that got locked because atheists don't know how to control themselves." :P

It matters because if we take this into a religious debate, then there's double standards that clearly exist. It's OK for the Western 'civilised' predominantly Christian world to have nukes and to declare war in the name of democracy, but if an Islamic nation starts to even show signs of doing either of those two, they must be quelled due to the messages and actions of a few extremists who claim to be belonging to that religion.

 

 

 

Both Islam and Christianity advocate violence in certain situations. It'd be foolish to say either of them is less or more violent than the other quite frankly. That's just too much of a generalisation and doesn't take into account the various branches of each religion.

 

 

 

The thing you need to understand is that Christianity plays a lot less in politics than Islam does in the Middle East.

 

 

 

Christianity is just a tool used by politicians to get them voted in. After that, it's all about the corporations. The reason the US is in the Middle East is for the resources, not to spread Christianity, not because God said so, but because of the oil. Openly as well, it's no secret to us.

 

 

 

In the Middle East, Islam is used extensively to get people to join terrorist groups, to get suicide bombers, because no one - no one - insults Muhammad and gets away with it. No infidel can attack the Arabic land and gets away with it. And all that propaganda jazz that (enough) Muslims eat up.

 

 

 

I hate religion altogether (I was born a Christian but denounced that because I don't believe in Jesus), but if you're going to defend Islam, don't hide it behind Christianity because it's just not the same.

 

Who's hiding behind Christianity? As far as I'm concerned, extremism in Islam and extremism in Christianity are cut from the same cloth.

 

 

 

The highlighted part I have issues with. Am I seriously to believe that a state would encourage the growth of terrorist groups inside their own country? Surely, Arhmadinejad would rather they join his own army instead of an independant terrorist group which could later on prove to have a free-radical effect?

 

 

 

Also, Christianity still does have a part in politics. Would Kate and Gerry McCann seriously have gotten the media attention they craved if they weren't Christians, and if they hadn't organised that trip to see the Pope? Tony Blair himself admitted his belief in God had an influence in his decision to invade Iraq. Bush has got to be one of the most religiously-driven politicians I've ever seen, if I'm completely honest. The Vatican believes they can stop people becoming anything to do with the organisation of the Catholic Church on the grounds they're gay, and that the law can't change that. Religion of any sort is heavily involved in politics.

 

 

 

Now, I'm not saying Islam is any less involved in politics, but especially considering the past two hundred years of religious extremism in Ireland, you'd be a fool to say Christianity is any better than Islam in the currect situation.

There are so many holes in your argument.

 

 

 

If you constantly compare Islam and Christianity together when we're discussing Islam, then you're hiding Islam behind Christianity.

 

 

 

and your... examples are weird.

 

 

 

* What does homosexuality have to do with war?

 

* Bush is not religiously driven, he's a corporate tool

 

* Tony Blair is the biggest flip flopper and you believe he invaded because of God? No, he invaded because he's a US lackey.

 

 

 

 

 

The thing that bothers me is this: "Now, I'm not saying Islam is any less involved in politics, but especially considering the past two hundred years of religious extremism in Ireland, you'd be a fool to say Christianity is any better than Islam in the currect situation."

 

 

 

Umm what? Is Ireland even involved with the Middle Eastern conflict? Is Ireland's history significant to the current situation?

 

 

 

No. Your thoughts are all over the place. :?