Is God real post your thoughts!

[mmmcannibalism]

No it's not, because humans would still have free will, and with that, someone would most likely have still sinned.. And the devil was originally an angel just serving his punishment, it's like life in prison after being a billionaire, compared to the death penalty. Life is actually worse. It was a punishment, and God says he will eventually kill satan.

 

 

 

So, god is just going to kill the devil when he gets around to it? I mean he flooded the whole earth after but he cant take out just one angel at the chance of eliminating every single bit of human suffering on this planet? Sure, maybe someone would have sinned eventually but then again maybe not. If we have free will, why did god allow the devil to interfere with that?

[dpattle]

You can call atheism anything you want, I really don't care. I'll argue back if need be or ignore comments I think are flippant. Why can't religious people feel the same way? This is an internet forum for Christ's sake. These are words. If you let words get to you so much then you need to grow up.

 

 

 

True. I believe somethings do infact just need to be ignored. Especially if they are nothing but childish rants for no reason, using deplorable language or terms and yet not contributing to the topic at hand at all.

 

 

 

Although i believe it is ok for someone to say "this is what i believe" and be done with it, just to input their opinion, and does not deserve to be subject to any flaming of any sort, especially if they are not imposing that belief on others.

 

chewed up and spit out. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

 

Believe this was in a song..."what them girls like" if i'm correct. \

[dpattle]

No it's not, because humans would still have free will, and with that, someone would most likely have still sinned.. And the devil was originally an angel just serving his punishment, it's like life in prison after being a billionaire, compared to the death penalty. Life is actually worse. It was a punishment, and God says he will eventually kill satan.

 

 

 

So, god is just going to kill the devil when he gets around to it? I mean he flooded the whole earth after but he cant take out just one angel at the chance of eliminating every single bit of human suffering on this planet? Sure, maybe someone would have sinned eventually but then again maybe not. If we have free will, why did god allow the devil to interfere with that?

 

 

 

Firstly, you're asking why God does this why God does that...how should i know why he decided to do it? just like i can't figure for my life why someone would just randomly kill other people, or why a person walked instead of driving. Hell, maybe they have their reasons, maybe they're good reasons, but how should i know?

 

 

 

Secondly, if i had to guess, I'd say he was left as an example, and a counterpart to Jesus maybe? Can't say i know what an almighty being is thinking. :wall:

[dpattle]

Also, i know i don't know alot about evolution/BBT, but i try, and i do however know alot about the bible and Christianity. Atleast i think i do, for my age anywayz, but you can always learn something new, even from a book many have studied for thousands of years.

 

 

 

I'll make you a deal. Instead of pointless arguing, let's try for a bit of education. I'll give you one good educational source on evolution if you do the same for me, but about Christianity.

 

 

 

http://evolution.berkeley.edu/

 

 

 

Yeah...i tried, and everything i found was either dumbing it down way way too much, or imo, to long to post. The one i did like was...oh, 24 different lessons or so.

 

 

 

I think this one was the simplest yet somewhat detailed site i found.

 

http://www.basicsofchristianity.com/ It should help you understand a little bit about christianity.

 

 

 

But anywayz, 8 minutes till 8pm(nice huh?) and i gotta do somethings and get ready for w/e's on cuz i know something i wanna watch is on on wednesdays.

[mmmcannibalism]

Firstly, you're asking why God does this why God does that...how should i know why he decided to do it? just like i can't figure for my life why someone would just randomly kill other people, or why a person walked instead of driving. Hell, maybe they have their reasons, maybe they're good reasons, but how should i know?

 

 

 

Secondly, if i had to guess, I'd say he was left as an example, and a counterpart to Jesus maybe? Can't say i know what an almighty being is thinking.

 

 

 

Let me rephrase that to clarify my point.

 

 

 

If you were an infinitely powerful and infinitely holy being as the bible says god is, would you allow the devil to live knowing he would cause suffering? If I knew I was going to be shot tomorrow if I went to mcdonalds I sure wouldnt go, so what possible reason is there for any diving being to allow suffering if he can stop it without harming free will. In eden, there was no sin until god allowed the devil to interfere and "corrupt" eve. Adam and Eve were more then happy with their situation and would not have sinned without that influence. They certainly had free will, god allowing the devil to continue on is therefore the cause of all human suffering.

[Lenticular_J]

You might know my opinion on this by now. If you're so personally entwined with your beliefs that any criticism of them is taken as a personal insult then you need to harden up or go to another forum. Or go to a church where everyone will agree with you and treat religious ideas as sacrosanct. People can't expect to come to the internet of all places and have their beliefs treated as they think they should be treated. This is the place more than any other where beliefs are truly open to be questioned, chewed up and spit out. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

 

 

 

You can call atheism anything you want, I really don't care. I'll argue back if need be or ignore comments I think are flippant. Why can't religious people feel the same way? This is an internet forum for Christ's sake. These are words. If you let words get to you so much then you need to grow up.

 

Bah, I hate the idea of words never hurting completely stupid. Of course they hurt. Too many people have died from words. I also dislike the idea of "THIS IS THE INTERNET EVERYONE CAN AND SHOULD BE A COMPLETE [wagon]". Just because people are doesn't mean everyone is. I just find it stupid if you base yourself on some high pedestal when all you do is call others ignorant, period.

 

 

 

I don't like arguing about people being [bleep]s, but it seems that's all that I care about. Whatever. I've begun to hate this topic, anyways, in real life and on here. I like to keep my thoughts inside my head if they're as personal as this, instead of intertwining them with others' thoughts out in the air. Just muddles everything up. Kinda wish everyone felt that way about as personal a belief as God, there would be no organized religion, just people believing what they want to believe...

[Zierro]

I just find it stupid if you base yourself on some high pedestal when all you do is call others ignorant, period.

 

 

 

Yeah, it's quite ironic when people tell others what they should or should not do, when in the eyes of others, they've done something that they shouldn't have done just as well. What do we define wrong as here? Hurting feelings, or getting your feelings hurt? Personally, I think the blame should be equally divided.

[Lenticular_J]

Seriously. I used to freak out a lot. Namely on magekillr. But, now we actually agree on a lot of things.

[raven_gaurd0]

There is evidence for evolution and natural selection, but you believe that an illogical higher power created everything?

 

 

 

:wall:

 

 

 

We learned about Darwin and his ideas for like a month, then the school board pulled the plug to keep super christian parents from whining.

 

 

 

:wall:

 

 

 

Everything means everything. Flowers, roller coasters, hot dogs, and evolution all fall under the category of "everything".

 

So you're saying that God could have created a single Amoeba, and then gotten credit after the chain reactions resulted in humanity?

 

 

 

Brilliant. :wall: :wall:

 

 

 

I still freak out a lot, Lenticular. Sigh. Though I did get another communist Tee, so I'm filled with glee.

 

 

 

As for you, my quoted friend, I don't understand why people don't think God doesn't intervene nowadays? It's not like He created then left. I heartily believe that He is responsible for creation and then evolution.

 

 

 

Perfection is change, because God designed nature to change itself. Therefore, isn't it only natural for the animals to change, too? But why can't it be by God's intervention, or by His design?

[Lenticular_J]

Why do you keep condemning maybe 300,000 people as idiots? I find your intolerance - and at a somewhat younger age than me - just as funny.

 

 

 

Why am I even here. I should go be fourteen. I don't know what that means, though. So I'll stay.

[tryto]

I heartily believe that He is responsible for creation and then evolution.

 

 

 

 

 

Like I asked Zierro; how can you reconcile the brutal, wasteful, and violent nature of evolution and natural selection with a loving god, especially as an all powerful god would find it much much easier, and faster to simply create ex nihilo, as dictated by your bible?

 

 

 

Also, why do you accept evolution but not abiogenesis?

[Lenticular_J]

I would like to know where he said he follows the Bible exactly, word-for-word, and such. I hate that assumption.

 

 

 

He also never said he doesn't accept abiogenesis. God could just as easily have made the Big Bang and left. I don't believe that, but I'm sure someone does. However, I don't exactly believe abiogenesis. At least not as far as our human, self-seeing sentience that we have. Maybe God just pitched in somewhere along the line, I don't know. I just don't think it's possible otherwise.

[tryto]

I would like to know where he said he follows the Bible exactly, word-for-word, and such. I hate that assumption.

 

 

 

He also never said he doesn't accept abiogenesis. God could just as easily have made the Big Bang and left. I don't believe that, but I'm sure someone does. However, I don't exactly believe abiogenesis. At least not as far as our human, self-seeing sentience that we have. Maybe God just pitched in somewhere along the line, I don't know. I just don't think it's possible otherwise.

 

 

 

He specifically said "creation". That is all I am basing it off of. I interpreted "creation" as god creating the origin of life, although I suppose it could be construed as referring to the big bang as well. I only mentioned the bible because well, it is what he professes to believe in, and is the basis for his faith, having the only record of jesus' miracles.

 

 

 

Creation is wholly different from abiogenesis, it's the complete antithesis of it. But, he also said that he accepts evolution, so I simply asked the question that is begged; why does he accept science to a point, but ceases at a seemingly arbitrary point(at least to me).

 

 

 

As well, Raven; if you do accept evolution, at which point did we begin to have a "soul"?

[Lenticular_J]

I know it probably bugs you to have me answer instead of him, but that's the point I'm trying to get across. I see us as three parts - a mind (calculations and such), body (just our body) and some sort of soul or something, which is able to see all this at a sort of distance.

[tryto]

I know it probably bugs you to have me answer instead of him, but that's the point I'm trying to get across. I see us as three parts - a mind (calculations and such), body (just our body) and some sort of soul or something, which is able to see all this at a sort of distance.

 

 

 

 

 

So you do believe that all living creatures have a "soul"?

 

Is this the same "soul" that goes to the afterlife when you?

 

In that case, do animals get sent to hell or heaven(if you subscribe to these places)?

 

 

 

How about flies or bacteria? Do they have souls too?

 

 

 

I don't mind at all, but I would like him to respond as well.

[Lenticular_J]

I suppose soul isn't the right word, because I don't exactly believe in heaven or hell. Well, not hell. I'm kinda just "I don't know" about the afterlife, but I like to imagine it as your "soul" (everybody, and animals, and all that) just kinda fades away, and just gets scattered across the universe. I'm the explorer type, and I know I'll never live to see the universe, so I like this notion.

 

 

 

Although a different kind of heaven than the Bible's would be nice, too. Eternity with the "ghost" population, just able to explore ...

 

 

 

EDIT: Oh, I guess I should explain more about animals. I'm not really sure whether or not animals have the same thing as us. It's similar, that's for sure, but they don't quite have sentience. I believe we should help them achieve it, but, I don't really know.

[raven_gaurd0]

I would like to know where he said he follows the Bible exactly, word-for-word, and such. I hate that assumption.

 

 

 

He also never said he doesn't accept abiogenesis. God could just as easily have made the Big Bang and left. I don't believe that, but I'm sure someone does. However, I don't exactly believe abiogenesis. At least not as far as our human, self-seeing sentience that we have. Maybe God just pitched in somewhere along the line, I don't know. I just don't think it's possible otherwise.

 

 

 

He specifically said "creation". That is all I am basing it off of. I interpreted "creation" as god creating the origin of life, although I suppose it could be construed as referring to the big bang as well. I only mentioned the bible because well, it is what he professes to believe in, and is the basis for his faith, having the only record of jesus' miracles.

 

 

 

Creation is wholly different from abiogenesis, it's the complete antithesis of it. But, he also said that he accepts evolution, so I simply asked the question that is begged; why does he accept science to a point, but ceases at a seemingly arbitrary point(at least to me).

 

 

 

As well, Raven; if you do accept evolution, at which point did we begin to have a "soul"?

 

 

 

I dunno. Abiogenesis seems awfully similar. And, I believe that God created and gave humans souls at creation, then continued to tweak nature. You see, I'm not a true believer in either science. I don't think that God came and created in 7 days. I think 7 days is symbolic, while the actual span that He created was much longer. Humans were created quite suddenly, though, and then we began to work and live with souls.

 

 

 

At the same time, I don't believe that we started as fish, or bacteria, or whatever, then became humans. (Did you know that there is incredible conflict between scientists as to where humans actually came from?)

 

 

 

It's not arbitrary. It's looking at God, and then looking at how He loves us more than His other creations, and then logically defining where everything else. It's really simple. I believe in the initial creation, but I believe in the change of nature over time. 'Creation' implies how something began, not how it continued, but 'evolution', which I believe is God tweaking with nature, is the continuation after the very long period of time in which he created us.

 

 

 

EDIT: The animal question...I believe that God gave animals to us for use. That, however, does not mean that we're allowed to be cruel to them. They are resource, they are companions, but they are not slaves. I understand and accept the usage of them as food, but I certainly do not think that they merit the cruelty humans impose upon them in the slaughterhouse. They are, after all, still God's creation.

[mmmcannibalism]

At the same time, I don't believe that we started as fish, or bacteria, or whatever, then became humans. (Did you know that there is incredible conflict between scientists as to where humans actually came from?)

 

 

 

want to site a source? There is a difference between debate over if we came from the red fish or blue fish and a debate on the actual process of evolution.

[raven_gaurd0]

At the same time, I don't believe that we started as fish, or bacteria, or whatever, then became humans. (Did you know that there is incredible conflict between scientists as to where humans actually came from?)

 

 

 

want to site a source? There is a difference between debate over if we came from the red fish or blue fish and a debate on the actual process of evolution.

 

 

 

Source? 'Discover Your Inner Fish' written be an evolutionist scientist.

 

 

 

As for the rest of the ignorant crap, debating what SPECIES of animal we came from is just a LITTLE important.

[mmmcannibalism]

the thing about evolution is it doesnt claim to be proof of every single generation of evolution, it claims to explain general trends. If say 500million(number made up) years ago there were a species of blue fish and a species of red fish that were close cousins, which one evolved into humanity over billions of generations isnt as important as the concept that we came from one of those species.

[warri0r45]

 

At the same time, I don't believe that we started as fish, or bacteria, or whatever, then became humans. (Did you know that there is incredible conflict between scientists as to where humans actually came from?)

 

 

 

Not true. The general picture of the evolution of life is pretty solid and unanimously agreed upon. Note that I'm talking the higher taxa of life here, not the genus/species side of things.

 

 

 

The general gist of it is: single cellular prokaryote --> single cellular eukaryote --> multicellular eukaryote --> simple aquatic invertebrates --> simple aquatic vertebrates --> jawed fish --> land dwelling reptiles --> mammals --> apes --> humans.

[Blyaunte]

Ya know, the point behind the "Kissing Hank's [wagon]" commentary, is to demonstrate just how silly religion appears to the non-religious.

 

We get it.

 

 

 

At the same time, I think that atheism seems silly to me, not being held to a higher power being judgement in the afterlife, but I get heavily criticized whenever I bring up that point.

 

 

 

 

 

Frankly, I've never really understood why anyone would want to believe that some imaginary creature wants to party with their ghost, but hey, if it helps you sleep better at night, then so be it.

[tintin113]

If God does exist then really he is a bit of a douche... I mean come on, if he wants us to follow his word then why doesn't he just come down from wherever it is that he's perched and tell us straight out instead of just leaving clues.

[lobsta]

God does not exist, I am 99.9% certain of that fact. Just because there are things that we (currently) do not know about the universe, does not mean that 'God' automatically should fill that gap. It would be just as plausible to suggest manbearpig created the world and all of us in it. To believe in God creates an even bigger question; 'Who created the creator?' and the same could be asked of the creator of the creator, and so on ad infinitum.

 

And Evolution is a proven fact. Whether or not the true line from 'start' to 'present' can be traced exactly maybe debatable, but that does not disprove evolution. Evolution is one of the most simple and beautiful models and probably the most important theory ever - because it explains our very existence. To believe in a God, is to belittle the complexity of nature and the universe. (sorry for spelling)

[lobsta]

Our 'souls' are simply the complex interplay of neurological impulses. Neurones on their own will do nothing, but together they create our consciousness. Souls in the superstitious sense do not exist.