Is God real post your thoughts!

[Sly_Wizard]

I heartily believe that He is responsible for creation and then evolution.

 

 

 

 

 

Like I asked Zierro; how can you reconcile the brutal, wasteful, and violent nature of evolution and natural selection with a loving god, especially as an all powerful god would find it much much easier, and faster to simply create ex nihilo, as dictated by your bible?

 

 

 

Also, why do you accept evolution but not abiogenesis?

 

 

 

*Laughs and laughs and laughs*

 

 

 

That is all.

 

 

 

Today in school we learned about Buddhism. Seems to make a lot more sense than God and all that. I dunno.

 

 

 

What kind?

[Nom]

And Evolution is a proven fact. Whether or not the true line from 'start' to 'present' can be traced exactly maybe debatable, but that does not disprove evolution. Evolution is one of the most simple and beautiful models and probably the most important theory ever - because it explains our very existence. To believe in a God, is to belittle the complexity of nature and the universe. (sorry for spelling)

 

 

 

You contradicted yourself there. Evolution is not a fact and it is not proven. It is a theory that has heaps of evidence supporting it and little to none against it, but it has not been proven.

[mmmcannibalism]

God does not exist, I am 99.9% certain of that fact. Just because there are things that we (currently) do not know about the universe, does not mean that 'God' automatically should fill that gap. It would be just as plausible to suggest manbearpig created the world and all of us in it. To believe in God creates an even bigger question; 'Who created the creator?' and the same could be asked of the creator of the creator, and so on ad infinitum.

 

And Evolution is a proven fact. Whether or not the true line from 'start' to 'present' can be traced exactly maybe debatable, but that does not disprove evolution. Evolution is one of the most simple and beautiful models and probably the most important theory ever - because it explains our very existence. To believe in a God, is to belittle the complexity of nature and the universe. (sorry for spelling)

 

 

 

1. 99.9% is a gross overstatement, I propose my two models of a. god is limited in power b. god greatly weakend himself when creating the universe as reasons you cant be that sure.

 

 

 

2. believing a god created everything is different then believing in a specific model of him

 

 

 

3. you understand the concept of infinity right? Its quite possible that the big bang was created by the past universe collapsing from a big crunch and so on back for an infinite amount of time.(its kind of a weird steady state universe model when you think about it). If reality can go back infinitely then a god also could. For instance, when was gravity created? who created it? it must have always existed.

 

 

 

4. evolution does not conflict with the existence of god, it conflicts to varying extents with specific faiths such as christianity that have a creation story(probably most if not all religions)

 

 

 

5. similair to 4, its quite easy to believe in evolution and god at the same time. The beauty of nature does not weaken and is not weakened by the beauty of the divine

 

 

 

edit--evolution is a theory all it says is that things "evolve" how they do due to the process of natural selection. Its correct in general, im sure if we dig through it there are tiny problems with it.

[warri0r45]

And Evolution is a proven fact. Whether or not the true line from 'start' to 'present' can be traced exactly maybe debatable, but that does not disprove evolution. Evolution is one of the most simple and beautiful models and probably the most important theory ever - because it explains our very existence. To believe in a God, is to belittle the complexity of nature and the universe. (sorry for spelling)

 

 

 

You contradicted yourself there. Evolution is not a fact and it is not proven. It is a theory that has heaps of evidence supporting it and little to none against it, but it has not been proven.

 

 

 

It's essentially treated like a fact, in the sense that it "has been tested or observed so many times that there is no longer a compelling reason to keep testing or looking for examples". [1] [2] [3]

 

 

 

It should be noted that "fact" in science doesn't mean 100% certainty. According to scientific thinking, technically nothing is ever that certain.

 

 

 

The theory evolution will never be proven - like many theories it's in a state of flux where new information is being considered all the time. Something like that you can never prove in its entirety, but some of it's basic principles you can.

[Lenticular_J]

Today in school we learned about Buddhism. Seems to make a lot more sense than God and all that. I dunno.

 

You didn't learn well. The majority school of Buddhism treats Gautama as a God, hence Buddhist statues and shrines. Tibetan Buddhism, under the Dalai Lama, is the intellectual school, but it is also divided.

 

 

 

To believe in a God, is to belittle the complexity of nature and the universe.

 

Huh. So you believe nature and the universe can be belittled? But it's just a series of atoms that has no real point? Then how, dear sir, could it be belittled? Your frothing over the impossibility of God sure sounds a lot like religious anger.

[i_love_burritos]

Lobsta, must you persist with your god-hating, intellectual dogma ?

 

 

 

My personal belief is that, God itself/himself/herself doesn't exist as such, but instead is manifested by the good deeds and acts of other people. People who exist to help other people. No god, but the one that we fashion by our own hands.

[Zierro]

Lobsta, must you persist with your god-hating, intellectual dogma ?

 

 

 

My personal belief is that, God itself/himself/herself doesn't exist as such, but instead is manifested by the good deeds and acts of other people. People who exist to help other people. No god, but the one that we fashion by our own hands.

 

 

 

This is why I'm not religious. You can't be certain of the existence of a god, so why not improvise just in case? Even if there was a god and we were sure of it, we should be the best people we can be and do our best to better mankind. Besides, we all owe mankind in one way or another. Reminds me of Einstein's ideal.

[mmmcannibalism]

Even if there was a god and we were sure of it, we should be the best people we can be and do our best to better mankind. Besides, we all owe mankind in one way or another. Reminds me of Einstein's ideal.

 

 

 

I remember reading over that from his wiki page, that we all owe mankind something is probably the best advice ever given.

[i_love_burritos]

Lobsta, must you persist with your god-hating, intellectual dogma ?

 

 

 

My personal belief is that, God itself/himself/herself doesn't exist as such, but instead is manifested by the good deeds and acts of other people. People who exist to help other people. No god, but the one that we fashion by our own hands.

 

 

 

This is why I'm not religious. You can't be certain of the existence of a god, so why not improvise just in case? Even if there was a god and we were sure of it, we should be the best people we can be and do our best to better mankind. Besides, we all owe mankind in one way or another. Reminds me of Einstein's ideal.

 

 

 

Do you dislike my theory?

 

I'm sorry, I don't get what you are saying.

[lobsta]

And Evolution is a proven fact. Whether or not the true line from 'start' to 'present' can be traced exactly maybe debatable, but that does not disprove evolution. Evolution is one of the most simple and beautiful models and probably the most important theory ever - because it explains our very existence. To believe in a God, is to belittle the complexity of nature and the universe. (sorry for spelling)

 

 

 

You contradicted yourself there. Evolution is not a fact and it is not proven. It is a theory that has heaps of evidence supporting it and little to none against it, but it has not been proven.

 

Yes I suppose I did contradict myeself there lol :). Thanks for pointing that out. What I meant was that Evolution itself is a relatively simple process, that leads to complex organisms being created.

[lobsta]

And Evolution is a proven fact. Whether or not the true line from 'start' to 'present' can be traced exactly maybe debatable, but that does not disprove evolution. Evolution is one of the most simple and beautiful models and probably the most important theory ever - because it explains our very existence. To believe in a God, is to belittle the complexity of nature and the universe. (sorry for spelling)

 

 

 

You contradicted yourself there. Evolution is not a fact and it is not proven. It is a theory that has heaps of evidence supporting it and little to none against it, but it has not been proven.

 

 

 

It's essentially treated like a fact, in the sense that it "has been tested or observed so many times that there is no longer a compelling reason to keep testing or looking for examples". [1] [2] [3]

 

 

 

It should be noted that "fact" in science doesn't mean 100% certainty. According to scientific thinking, technically nothing is ever that certain.

 

 

 

The theory evolution will never be proven - like many theories it's in a state of flux where new information is being considered all the time. Something like that you can never prove in its entirety, but some of it's basic principles you can.

 

 

 

Absolutely correct, you said this better than I could have cheers.

[lobsta]

 

1. 99.9% is a gross overstatement, I propose my two models of a. god is limited in power b. god greatly weakend himself when creating the universe as reasons you cant be that sure.

 

 

 

2. believing a god created everything is different then believing in a specific model of him

 

 

 

3. you understand the concept of infinity right? Its quite possible that the big bang was created by the past universe collapsing from a big crunch and so on back for an infinite amount of time.(its kind of a weird steady state universe model when you think about it). If reality can go back infinitely then a god also could. For instance, when was gravity created? who created it? it must have always existed.

 

 

 

4. evolution does not conflict with the existence of god, it conflicts to varying extents with specific faiths such as christianity that have a creation story(probably most if not all religions)

 

 

 

5. similair to 4, its quite easy to believe in evolution and god at the same time. The beauty of nature does not weaken and is not weakened by the beauty of the divine

 

 

 

edit--evolution is a theory all it says is that things "evolve" how they do due to the process of natural selection. Its correct in general, im sure if we dig through it there are tiny problems with it.

 

 

 

1. 99.9 is not a gross overstatement. The only reason I do not say with 100% certainty, is because it would be wrong to be 100% certain about anything. I shall always stay open minded to a point about these subjects - when there is sufficient evidence in support of God's existence, then I will believe in him/her/it. Your models are certainly very interesting, but purely hypothetical. There is no evidence for those scenarios and even if it were true and God were weak then surely he would not be worth worshipping anyway. Admittedly Science has yet to offer us a better understanding of the creation of the universe, but it does not pretend to know... However, this does not mean that any logically thinking human being should just assume that God should fill that gap. As I have said before, it would be just as reasonable to suppose that manbearpig created the universe.

 

 

 

3. Certainly a very interesting and thought provoking point. I do not know how the universe was created but I do not claim to know. If you truly believe that an invisible omniscient, omnipresent deity created the heavens and the earth and you are absolutely certain that there is no other scientific explanation, then you are entitled to that decision. I sincerely believe that you, on this point (not other areas of life), are suffering from a lack of imagination.

 

 

 

4. The problem is, is that religious people claim that their book or scripture is the word of God. Therefore, according to Christianity, it is God's word that he created the heavens and the earth in 7 days. Because of this, Evolution does contradict the existence of God.

 

 

 

5. Yes you may very well be correct - but this is subjective and does not prove the existence of God.

 

 

 

6. That may very well be the case, but that is the beauty of science. Scientists are driven by ignorance, and are continually improving/editing theories.

 

 

 

God does not exist.

[lobsta]

Lobsta, must you persist with your god-hating, intellectual dogma ?

 

 

 

My personal belief is that, God itself/himself/herself doesn't exist as such, but instead is manifested by the good deeds and acts of other people. People who exist to help other people. No god, but the one that we fashion by our own hands.

 

 

 

I do not hate God. The problem is when people blow themselves up and kill other people, in the "name of God".

 

So you agree with me that God does not exist? However you think he is more a metaphor for good deeds? That is a nice poetic interpretation.

[mmmcannibalism]

[hide=]

1. 99.9 is not a gross overstatement. The only reason I do not say with 100% certainty, is because it would be wrong to be 100% certain about anything. I shall always stay open minded to a point about these subjects - when there is sufficient evidence in support of God's existence, then I will believe in him/her/it. Your models are certainly very interesting, but purely hypothetical. There is no evidence for those scenarios and even if it were true and God were weak then surely he would not be worth worshipping anyway. Admittedly Science has yet to offer us a better understanding of the creation of the universe, but it does not pretend to know... However, this does not mean that any logically thinking human being should just assume that God should fill that gap. As I have said before, it would be just as reasonable to suppose that manbearpig created the universe.

 

 

 

3. Certainly a very interesting and thought provoking point. I do not know how the universe was created but I do not claim to know. If you truly believe that an invisible omniscient, omnipresent deity created the heavens and the earth and you are absolutely certain that there is no other scientific explanation, then you are entitled to that decision. I sincerely believe that you, on this point (not other areas of life), are suffering from a lack of imagination.

 

 

 

4. The problem is, is that religious people claim that their book or scripture is the word of God. Therefore, according to Christianity, it is God's word that he created the heavens and the earth in 7 days. Because of this, Evolution does contradict the existence of God.

 

 

 

5. Yes you may very well be correct - but this is subjective and does not prove the existence of God.

 

 

 

6. That may very well be the case, but that is the beauty of science. Scientists are driven by ignorance, and are continually improving/editing theories.

[/hide]

 

 

 

1. You can have a certainty of 99.9 percent, but your margin of error is immense due to the whole you cant prove god you cant disprove god(referring to a god not any specific god.)

 

 

 

3.(where did 2 go?) If you note, what I said is actually a better backing for atheism then theism. The main point here is that if the universe is here currently, either conservation of mass can be violated or what we have now came from a past universe or god. If the matter/energy that exists today can go back forever without creation then a god also could.

 

 

 

4. Let me clarify this, evolution does not contradict with the belief that something beyond reality ie a god can exist. For a given religion/religious text there will be varying levels of contradiction with science. I dont follow any religious text, and believe firmly in science so there isnt a contradiction.

 

 

 

5. sure it doesnt prove god, but it shows that you cant disprove him(harms the 99 percent argument)

 

 

 

6. I devoutly believe in science, the thing here is you are over generalizing a belief in god into a belief in a christian like god.

[Lenticular_J]

The problem is when people blow themselves up and kill other people, in the "name of God".

 

Oh, so killing people in the name of "Because I was told to" is that much better?

 

 

 

 

 

I sincerely believe that you, on this point (not other areas of life), are suffering from a lack of imagination.

 

HA! You seem to rabidly believe that God is a pointless figment of people's imagination, and hold science in some sort of reverent regard, and yet claim this? I could certainly make jokes about how unimaginative you are for breathing oxygen and nitrogen, but I will refrain.

 

 

 

The problem is, is that religious people claim that their book or scripture is the word of God. Therefore, according to Christianity, it is God's word that he created the heavens and the earth in 7 days. Because of this, Evolution does contradict the existence of God.

 

I believe this as a metaphor. Many people I know believe this is a metaphor. It could be a metaphor, seeing as the Bible is a man-made piece of literature documenting events in the view of true people and followers of their beliefs. Literature tends to go above and beyond petty realistic events.

[Zierro]

Lobsta, must you persist with your god-hating, intellectual dogma ?

 

 

 

My personal belief is that, God itself/himself/herself doesn't exist as such, but instead is manifested by the good deeds and acts of other people. People who exist to help other people. No god, but the one that we fashion by our own hands.

 

 

 

This is why I'm not religious. You can't be certain of the existence of a god, so why not improvise just in case? Even if there was a god and we were sure of it, we should be the best people we can be and do our best to better mankind. Besides, we all owe mankind in one way or another. Reminds me of Einstein's ideal.

 

 

 

Do you dislike my theory?

 

I'm sorry, I don't get what you are saying.

 

 

 

No, I'm agreeing. I think no matter what religion you are, you should still try to be a helpful person. Even if you have no religion, the best way of life should be a charitable one.

[das]

I think people take the 7 day creation period way too literal, 7 days can be 7 "Godly" days, what is time to a creator of a universe? I do believe god created the universe, however I also believed society has evolved over the years to become bigger, faster. smarter and stronger.

[Fedorca99]

I think people take the 7 day creation period way too literal, 7 days can be 7 "Godly" days, what is time to a creator of a universe? I do believe god created the universe, however I also believed society has evolved over the years to become bigger, faster. smarter and stronger.

 

Did you know, that the Hebrew word for "day" in Genesis, means a literal day? And it's used over 100 other times in the OT, every time meaning a literal day?

[Talset65]

I have enjoyed reading the past couple of pages of arguments.

 

 

 

Personally I think that God is a concept, of simply something greater than the human race. Perhaps of something Alien? Or with greater powers?

 

 

 

I don't believe the bible, or that Jesus was a guy who could perform 'magical miracles' as such, but miracles in the form of activism, and him being a revolutionist.

 

 

 

And I am curious to those who do believe in God, why oh why would you worship or pray to somebody who tricks Abraham into thinking he has to sacrifice his son Isaac, and then at the last minute he tells him he doesn't have to. Blatant emotional cruelty.

[Rebdragon]

I think people take the 7 day creation period way too literal, 7 days can be 7 "Godly" days, what is time to a creator of a universe? I do believe god created the universe, however I also believed society has evolved over the years to become bigger, faster. smarter and stronger.

 

Did you know, that the Hebrew word for "day" in Genesis, means a literal day? And it's used over 100 other times in the OT, every time meaning a literal day?

 

Source? I've heard otherwise.

[tryto]

I think people take the 7 day creation period way too literal, 7 days can be 7 "Godly" days, what is time to a creator of a universe? I do believe god created the universe, however I also believed society has evolved over the years to become bigger, faster. smarter and stronger.

 

Did you know, that the Hebrew word for "day" in Genesis, means a literal day? And it's used over 100 other times in the OT, every time meaning a literal day?

 

Source? I've heard otherwise.

 

 

 

 

 

"And there was evening and there was morning-the first day." Genesis 1:5

 

 

 

http://www.eadshome.com/Day.htm

[Lenticular_J]

I have enjoyed reading the past couple of pages of arguments.

 

 

 

Personally I think that God is a concept, of simply something greater than the human race. Perhaps of something Alien? Or with greater powers?

 

 

 

I don't believe the bible, or that Jesus was a guy who could perform 'magical miracles' as such, but miracles in the form of activism, and him being a revolutionist.

 

 

 

And I am curious to those who do believe in God, why oh why would you worship or pray to somebody who tricks Abraham into thinking he has to sacrifice his son Isaac, and then at the last minute he tells him he doesn't have to. Blatant emotional cruelty.

 

Well, for one thing, the Christian God (in general, as I've said it's different for every person) is much more chillaxed and "Help your fellow man" than the Old Testament God - namely because of Jesus.

 

 

 

BUT. I don't believe Abraham was being tricked, or if God was testing Abraham. I see it as Abraham testing God. He lived in a time with plenty of gods and goddesses, why should he follow absolutely this one? So, when put to the test, he found Him to be a just fine fit.

[lobsta]

[hide=]

1. 99.9 is not a gross overstatement. The only reason I do not say with 100% certainty, is because it would be wrong to be 100% certain about anything. I shall always stay open minded to a point about these subjects - when there is sufficient evidence in support of God's existence, then I will believe in him/her/it. Your models are certainly very interesting, but purely hypothetical. There is no evidence for those scenarios and even if it were true and God were weak then surely he would not be worth worshipping anyway. Admittedly Science has yet to offer us a better understanding of the creation of the universe, but it does not pretend to know... However, this does not mean that any logically thinking human being should just assume that God should fill that gap. As I have said before, it would be just as reasonable to suppose that manbearpig created the universe.

 

 

 

3. Certainly a very interesting and thought provoking point. I do not know how the universe was created but I do not claim to know. If you truly believe that an invisible omniscient, omnipresent deity created the heavens and the earth and you are absolutely certain that there is no other scientific explanation, then you are entitled to that decision. I sincerely believe that you, on this point (not other areas of life), are suffering from a lack of imagination.

 

 

 

4. The problem is, is that religious people claim that their book or scripture is the word of God. Therefore, according to Christianity, it is God's word that he created the heavens and the earth in 7 days. Because of this, Evolution does contradict the existence of God.

 

 

 

5. Yes you may very well be correct - but this is subjective and does not prove the existence of God.

 

 

 

6. That may very well be the case, but that is the beauty of science. Scientists are driven by ignorance, and are continually improving/editing theories.

[/hide]

 

 

 

1. You can have a certainty of 99.9 percent, but your margin of error is immense due to the whole you cant prove god you cant disprove god(referring to a god not any specific god.)

 

 

 

3.(where did 2 go?) If you note, what I said is actually a better backing for atheism then theism. The main point here is that if the universe is here currently, either conservation of mass can be violated or what we have now came from a past universe or god. If the matter/energy that exists today can go back forever without creation then a god also could.

 

 

 

4. Let me clarify this, evolution does not contradict with the belief that something beyond reality ie a god can exist. For a given religion/religious text there will be varying levels of contradiction with science. I dont follow any religious text, and believe firmly in science so there isnt a contradiction.

 

 

 

5. sure it doesnt prove god, but it shows that you cant disprove him(harms the 99 percent argument)

 

 

 

6. I devoutly believe in science, the thing here is you are over generalizing a belief in god into a belief in a christian like god.

 

These debates always seem to run in circles.

 

1. We can not prove the existence of God, therefore we should operate under the assumption that he/she/it does not exist but we can remain open to the idea, that if the evidence comes in to support the existence of God, we should believe in him/her/it. We can not disprove God. We can not disprove anything. I can not disprove that manbearpig is not real, and neither can you.

 

2. Yes I understand that people believe in different models of God

 

3. Although it is interesting, as I have said before it is purely speculation. We do not know how the universe began, or what was before it. God should not fill that gap because we are unable to perceive any other way in which the universe was created. Because science does not yet (maybe never) have the answers to the big questions, does not mean the intelligent design theory wins by default. It is highly implausible that intelligent matter came together to create the universe. As I have said before and will say again, the God theory does not solve the problem, it only aggravates it. Who created the creator? It is up to you, to prove that a God created the universe.

 

4. People believe in God in different ways. Some religious people believe that their gospels are the word of God, others interpret them differently. Because these gospels contradict the theory of evolution, this must disprove the existence of their God.

 

5. I am sorry - but not being able to disprove something is an extremely vacuous argument. I can not disprove that existence of fairies or unicorns or any other mythical creature. Neither can you. But I am sure we both assume that since we can not prove their existence, they do not exist. The same is true for God.

[lobsta]

The problem is when people blow themselves up and kill other people, in the "name of God".

 

Oh, so killing people in the name of "Because I was told to" is that much better?

 

 

 

 

 

I sincerely believe that you, on this point (not other areas of life), are suffering from a lack of imagination.

 

HA! You seem to rabidly believe that God is a pointless figment of people's imagination, and hold science in some sort of reverent regard, and yet claim this? I could certainly make jokes about how unimaginative you are for breathing oxygen and nitrogen, but I will refrain.

 

 

 

Can you please explain these points further? I do not understand them. And I think you miss-understood me on that last point.

[mmmcannibalism]

You called me unimaginative for providing a possibility of an infinitely old universe or a universe created by god to look infinitely old. He is stating that calling that unimaginitive is the same as calling you unimaginative for breathing the same stuff as other humans.(I also dont see how my model is unimaginative)

 

 

 

Im not sure about the first part though :lol: