Is God real post your thoughts!

[warri0r45]

 

 

 

I know, I know...

 

 

 

Toast linked me to a page and I saw it on the side and decided to save it since it gave me a little chuckle. Anyone care to answer?

 

 

 

Think of god as a parent. They'll punish you. They'll piss you off. They're unfair. But in the end, they usually know what's best. That's just my take on it. I mean without negatives, how would positives exist?

 

 

 

I have a take on the question. If you just remove all the negatives, the positives will still exist. It's not like our neural pathways will rewire to perceive positive things differently. Having said that, I agree some negatives are good for building character and appreciating the positives, but sometimes it's just over the top. For example, there's not much character-building to be had from childhood/infant diseases like cancer or SIDS. At least, I don't think you can possibly reconcile cruel things like that with omnibenevolence. Maybe god just doesn't care that much. Sorry, I'm not one to buy into the whole "god knows best" argument.

 

 

 

I don't see why god couldn't simply bypass all the grief and send everyone to heaven straight away, but I never liked the idea of an eternity of perfection either. EdgedThesis is right, it does seem to be way too stagnant.

 

 

 

[To answer EdgedThesis' question in the other post, I'm talking about DNA evidence, not the fossil record]

[Zierro]

I have a take on the question. If you just remove all the negatives, the positives will still exist. It's not like our neural pathways will rewire to perceive positive things differently. Having said that, I agree some negatives are good for building character and appreciating the positives, but sometimes it's just over the top. For example, there's not much character-building to be had from childhood/infant diseases like cancer or SIDS. At least, I don't think you can possibly reconcile cruel things like that with omnibenevolence. Maybe god just doesn't care that much. Sorry, I'm not one to buy into the whole "god knows best" argument.

 

 

 

You're only mentioning the personal level. I try to look at tragedies such as AID's in a societal or even universal light - I think about the people who are left behind who are looking in from the outside. Think about a couple who struggles to have a baby, but even after a fetus is finally conceived, misfortune strikes and it dies before it's even born. Now think about the same couple having a second child but this time nothing goes wrong. His life is going to be cherished greatly. You might argue that it wasn't necessary in the first place, but to me it makes sense that occurrences like that work on a case to case basis.

 

 

 

I'm not trying to say that this is the reason why babies die. For all I know, I could be completely wrong. But I think my main point still stands - good things can always sprout out of bad situations even when it seems extremely unlikely. Maybe god chooses the lesser of two evils for the greater good?

 

 

 

As for the positive-negative relation, I don't see what's wrong with that theory. Consider this: Aliens land on earth. They come from a planet where there is no sun - there is no day, only night. Would they think of their planet as "night" or would the thought never occur to them at all? Only when they discover that there is a difference that exists on earth - it gets dark and light - then they will acknowledge the two terms "night" and "day". The differences are essential. Another example: Would blue be considered a color if it was the only existing hue?

[pureprayer]

Or in simpler terms...

 

 

 

Best friend gets aids and dies, BOOM you want revenge and discover the cure for aids.

[mmmcannibalism]

the good bad counter does have a serious problem, there are a lot of things on earth that are completely over the top by that line of thinking. Did anyone get anything special out of 9/11? Yeah the country was patriotic for all of two weeks but losing that many people for two weeks of patriotism seems horribly disproportional.

[Barihawk]

the good bad counter does have a serious problem, there are a lot of things on earth that are completely over the top by that line of thinking. Did anyone get anything special out of 9/11? Yeah the country was patriotic for all of two weeks but losing that many people for two weeks of patriotism seems horribly disproportional.

 

 

 

We are also bound by free will. A blessing and a curse. You can not blame God for the actions of another person, who also has free will.

[Zierro]

Parents don't hand their kids cancer with a sticky note saying "6 weeks to live."

 

 

 

Yeah, and god doesn't ground people. Of course there are going to be differences, that's the point of an analogy.

[Kiriyama]

 

 

 

I know, I know...

 

 

 

Toast linked me to a page and I saw it on the side and decided to save it since it gave me a little chuckle. Anyone care to answer?

 

 

 

I can answer it regarding to war and killing.

 

 

 

Why should God stop us when we are perfectly capable of doing so ourselves?

[Fedorca99]

Basically, because we do bad stuff (aka sin), bad stuff happens to us. But no, I don't believe in Karma.

[Zierro]

I have another point I want to add to this "Why do bad things happen?" question. What is good in the eyes of some might be bad in the eyes of others. Let's think about abortion. Why would god make it possible to have an abortion since killing is a bad thing? Forcing a child through a miserable life and making a teenage girl's life more hectic can't be that good either though, can it? Bad is very subjective.

[mmmcannibalism]

I have another point I want to add to this "Why do bad things happen?" question. What is good in the eyes of some might be bad in the eyes of others. Let's think about abortion. Why would god make it possible to have an abortion since killing is a bad thing? Forcing a child through a miserable life and making a teenage girl's life more hectic can't be that good either though, can it? Bad is very subjective.

 

 

 

agreed, though there are limits to that. There is very little benefit from the holocost, and I see very little we have gained from any of the various mass killings based on religion race etc.

[Lenticular_J]

People will stop freezing to death.

 

 

 

Ridiculous hypothetical situations tend to be solved ridiculously.

[i_love_burritos]

Global warming?

 

 

 

:lol:

 

 

 

:shock:

 

 

 

:cry:

[lobsta]

In the absurd reality that God does exist, I think we make too many assumptions about him based upon nothing. How do we know he is good? How do we know how powerful he is? Why are humans so arrogant to believe that they are the centre of his attention, what if he is really looking out for...Crabs? If he was so incredibly powerful and intelligent, would he really be that bothered if his little minions on earth did not believe in him? I wouldnt. How does anybody know that God will reward an individual with 72 virgins for attaching a bomb to oneself and blowing up 'non-believers' - there are some who truely believe this. The truth is, even if God existed, we know nothing about him/her/it - as is reflected by the multitude of different beliefs. God most likely does not exist.

 

 

 

By the way,global warming is a good thing. Fact. Who likes feeling cold??

[Lenticular_J]

So because you don't know anything about something, you shouldn't believe in it?

 

 

 

I believe I got a sad face for the same thing quite recently.

 

 

 

I also like feeling cold.

[Bloodkay]

I think that not having evidence to back up it's existence, it's difficult to believe in something.

 

That being said, some people are still ignorant to the bone. I can't understand how some people don't think global warming is happening in the slightest.

 

 

 

Soooo... I really don't think there's a God. I believe it's all gravity and explosions and time. And evolution.

[Joes_So_Cool]

Reading back, the first few pages specifically I've noticed how big of an arrogant uninformed fool I am. After thinking about this topic on and off for a few months + now I'm strongly thinking I'm atheist.

[mmmcannibalism]

In the absurd reality that God does exist, I think we make too many assumptions about him based upon nothing. How do we know he is good? How do we know how powerful he is? Why are humans so arrogant to believe that they are the centre of his attention, what if he is really looking out for...Crabs? If he was so incredibly powerful and intelligent, would he really be that bothered if his little minions on earth did not believe in him? I wouldnt. How does anybody know that God will reward an individual with 72 virgins for attaching a bomb to oneself and blowing up 'non-believers' - there are some who truely believe this. The truth is, even if God existed, we know nothing about him/her/it - as is reflected by the multitude of different beliefs. God most likely does not exist.

 

 

 

By the way,global warming is a good thing. Fact. Who likes feeling cold??

 

 

 

I was under the impression we were debating if god exists, not if christianity and islam were correct. You can be as angry as you want, its not helping your case much, since I dont believe in christianity/islam your whole argument is fluff to me.

[Bloodkay]

Reading back, the first few pages specifically I've noticed how big of an arrogant uninformed fool I am. After thinking about this topic on and off for a few months + now I'm strongly thinking I'm atheist.

 

 

 

That's pretty mature of you. You informed yourself, decided on your own terms whether or not you believe in God and want to follow a religion and made a decision.

 

 

 

And you know, we can be Atheist and still retain the values that religions imbue: like do unto others, being a good person and loving.

[lobsta]

So because you don't know anything about something, you shouldn't believe in it?

 

 

 

I believe I got a sad face for the same thing quite recently.

 

 

 

I also like feeling cold.

 

lol

[lobsta]

In the absurd reality that God does exist, I think we make too many assumptions about him based upon nothing. How do we know he is good? How do we know how powerful he is? Why are humans so arrogant to believe that they are the centre of his attention, what if he is really looking out for...Crabs? If he was so incredibly powerful and intelligent, would he really be that bothered if his little minions on earth did not believe in him? I wouldnt. How does anybody know that God will reward an individual with 72 virgins for attaching a bomb to oneself and blowing up 'non-believers' - there are some who truely believe this. The truth is, even if God existed, we know nothing about him/her/it - as is reflected by the multitude of different beliefs. God most likely does not exist.

 

 

 

By the way,global warming is a good thing. Fact. Who likes feeling cold??

 

 

 

I was under the impression we were debating if god exists, not if christianity and islam were correct. You can be as angry as you want, its not helping your case much, since I dont believe in christianity/islam your whole argument is fluff to me.

 

We are. People believe in different versions of God. Stop being silly.

[Lenticular_J]

... Exactly. There are about 12 Gods per person on this planet, currently. Whether or not they believe in Him/Her, him/her, it, whatever. If you include all of them ... Ever ... Per person ever ... Well that's just crazy.

[lobsta]

What?

[user1991]

In the absurd reality that God does exist, I think we make too many assumptions about him based upon nothing. How do we know he is good? How do we know how powerful he is? Why are humans so arrogant to believe that they are the centre of his attention, what if he is really looking out for...Crabs? If he was so incredibly powerful and intelligent, would he really be that bothered if his little minions on earth did not believe in him? I wouldnt. How does anybody know that God will reward an individual with 72 virgins for attaching a bomb to oneself and blowing up 'non-believers' - there are some who truely believe this. The truth is, even if God existed, we know nothing about him/her/it - as is reflected by the multitude of different beliefs. God most likely does not exist.

 

 

 

By the way,global warming is a good thing. Fact. Who likes feeling cold??

 

 

 

I was under the impression we were debating if god exists, not if christianity and islam were correct. You can be as angry as you want, its not helping your case much, since I dont believe in christianity/islam your whole argument is fluff to me.

 

We are. People believe in different versions of God. Stop being silly.

 

 

 

He's arguing whether or not a God exists. Not God's supposed attributes.

 

 

 

Obviously, if we're arguing whether or not a God with certain attributes exists then it is relevant to point out inconsistencies in said attributes, but that's not what he was talking about.

 

 

 

Does a God exist? I don't think we really have any way of knowing, but even if we did prove the existence of a creator, we wouldn't know its attributes, its will, whether or not there was a moral standard or not, and if there was, the answer to the Euthyphro problem etc etc the list is endless. It's irrelevant really, the whole thing would just become redundant.

 

 

 

What really gets to me, is when Christians/Muslims/people of most theistic schools of thought claim to not only know God's mind, but also assert that God's will should be the law of the land or taught as fact in public schools.

 

 

 

I don't really have a problem with the religious unless they try to put their religion into law/education etc, which is exactly what a lot of them are doing. The religious always try and make out as if we're trying to make prayer and stuff illegal, which would be absurd, especially when you consider that the religious right are the ones behind the suspension of habeas corpus, phone tapping/wire tapping without warrants etc. I'm not saying that religion is the cause of this mentality, but simply that it is rather hypocritical of the religious right to assume that the secular are always trying to take away their "freedoms" when they are the ones that are so quick to suspend constitutional rights and such. Sure, I may believe that the world would be a better place if people weren't superstitious, but that doesn't mean that I think religion should be illegal. Why are these people so stuck on the concept of making something you don't like illegal?

[lobsta]

 

 

 

I don't really have a problem with the religious unless they try to put their religion into law/education etc, which is exactly what a lot of them are doing. The religious always try and make out as if we're trying to make prayer and stuff illegal, which would be absurd, especially when you consider that the religious right are the ones behind the suspension of habeas corpus, phone tapping/wire tapping without warrants etc. I'm not saying that religion is the cause of this mentality, but simply that it is rather hypocritical of the religious right to assume that the secular are always trying to take away their "freedoms" when they are the ones that are so quick to suspend constitutional rights and such. Sure, I may believe that the world would be a better place if people weren't superstitious, but that doesn't mean that I think religion should be illegal. Why are these people so stuck on the concept of making something you don't like illegal?

 

My university lecturer once told me; "never underestimate public ignorance."

[mmmcannibalism]

He's arguing whether or not a God exists. Not God's supposed attributes.

 

 

 

Obviously, if we're arguing whether or not a God with certain attributes exists then it is relevant to point out inconsistencies in said attributes, but that's not what he was talking about.

 

 

 

Does a God exist? I don't think we really have any way of knowing, but even if we did prove the existence of a creator, we wouldn't know its attributes, its will, whether or not there was a moral standard or not, and if there was, the answer to the Euthyphro problem etc etc the list is endless. It's irrelevant really, the whole thing would just become redundant.

 

 

 

thanks for covering me there

 

 

 

to lobsta

 

 

 

Its grossly incorrect to assume you can narrow down the fundamentals of god to a few examples of a few religions. The religion I adopted is similair to the philosophy Albert Einstein(quotes on page sorry I cant give a narrower link) in that the universe its self and the pursuit of its truths is god. Unless you wish to argue the universe, science, math, and philosophy dont exist then you must concede my "god" does.