Is God real post your thoughts!

[Obtaurian]

But some possibilities have more proof or credit than others, and there is absolutely NO proof supernatural forces exist.

 

To explain a certainly thing's nature, you need science. Supernatural forces are not possible to be proven or disproven by science(=logic). Natural forces can be proven or disproven.

 

 

 

Therefore per definition supernatural forces are the weakest solution.

 

Never talk about religion with anyone (irl). Matters will not end well. You have an opinion that, sadly, I must admit I once held, but it's a juvenile one, and I hope you grow out of it. Somewhat. Sometimes people are religious for the wrong reasons, but that's no reason to make a prejudiced, unjust statement like the one you're makin' right now.

 

 

 

Supernatural forces. =/= Religion.

 

 

 

It's close but not the same.

 

 

 

The only difference is that you give money to religion. :-k

[brunokiller]

But some possibilities have more proof or credit than others, and there is absolutely NO proof supernatural forces exist.

 

To explain a certainly thing's nature, you need science. Supernatural forces are not possible to be proven or disproven by science(=logic). Natural forces can be proven or disproven.

 

 

 

Therefore per definition supernatural forces are the weakest solution.

 

Never talk about religion with anyone (irl). Matters will not end well. You have an opinion that, sadly, I must admit I once held, but it's a juvenile one, and I hope you grow out of it. Somewhat. Sometimes people are religious for the wrong reasons, but that's no reason to make a prejudiced, unjust statement like the one you're makin' right now.

 

 

 

Supernatural forces. =/= Religion.

 

 

 

It's close but not the same.

 

 

 

The only difference is that you give money to religion. :-k

 

And that religion is based on using rituals and prayers to a supposedly higher being to influence the decisions of that force.

[user1991]

But some possibilities have more proof or credit than others, and there is absolutely NO proof supernatural forces exist.

 

To explain a certainly thing's nature, you need science. Supernatural forces are not possible to be proven or disproven by science(=logic). Natural forces can be proven or disproven.

 

 

 

Therefore per definition supernatural forces are the weakest solution.

 

Never talk about religion with anyone (irl). Matters will not end well. You have an opinion that, sadly, I must admit I once held, but it's a juvenile one, and I hope you grow out of it. Somewhat. Sometimes people are religious for the wrong reasons, but that's no reason to make a prejudiced, unjust statement like the one you're makin' right now.

 

 

 

Supernatural forces. =/= Religion.

 

 

 

It's close but not the same.

 

 

 

The only difference is that you give money to religion. :-k

 

And that religion is based on using rituals and prayers to a supposedly higher being to influence the decisions of that force.

 

 

 

You're misrepresenting religion. I'm not religious, but if you're going to debate them at least debate their actual position.

[brunokiller]

If my definition does not suffice, how would you improve it?

[mmmcannibalism]

And that religion is based on using rituals and prayers to a supposedly higher being to influence the decisions of that force.

 

 

 

religion is believing in something beyond then reality. My belief there is a divine mechanism behind all the science of the world doesnt satisfy any of your claims about religion but its clearly a religious belief.

 

 

 

edited higher to beyond seemed more appropriate.

[Chained_life]

Yes I do believe in god, I always have. Sad thing is, these days not believing in god is "cool" amongst younger people. Over the years this country has become more and more godless, it explains the moral bankruptcy in this country.

 

 

 

Most claim to be free willed, but this is not true, they have let TV, movies, music and other things control the way they think and behave. I see this every day talking to clan members who call themselves atheists. Sad thing, can't imagine how this country is gonna be in 40 years. Frightens me to be perfectly honest. We are in control of our fate, another flood perhaps?

[Wisp]

Yes I do believe in god, I always have. Sad thing is, these days not believing in god is "cool" amongst younger people. Over the years this country has become more and more godless, it explains the moral bankruptcy in this country.

 

 

 

Most claim to be free willed, but this is not true, they have let TV, movies, music and other things control the way they think and behave. I see this every day talking to clan members who call themselves atheists. Sad thing, can't imagine how this country is gonna be in 40 years. Frightens me to be perfectly honest. We are in control of our fate, another flood perhaps?

 

And what would you say is moral bankruptcy? Is anyone who thinks differently that you immoral? Why, with no proof presented to me, should I follow to standards set by some book? Why that book? Why should I believe in your god versus a different one, or none at all?

 

Forced moral standards are ridiculous. If you are just doing what it says so you get into heaven, and not go to hell, then you don't really care about the morals, you just want whats best for you.

[embersfire]

Yes I do believe in god, I always have. Sad thing is, these days not believing in god is "cool" amongst younger people. Over the years this country has become more and more godless, it explains the moral bankruptcy in this country.

 

 

 

Most claim to be free willed, but this is not true, they have let TV, movies, music and other things control the way they think and behave. I see this every day talking to clan members who call themselves atheists. Sad thing, can't imagine how this country is gonna be in 40 years. Frightens me to be perfectly honest. We are in control of our fate, another flood perhaps?

 

 

 

Not believing in god does not equal being morally "bankrupt",and i call [cabbage] on that one. I am fully capable of being a loving and caring person without the belief in a God,and so can others who live in the country. The country is certainly going down hill,but this is not the cause.

[Chained_life]

Yes I do believe in god, I always have. Sad thing is, these days not believing in god is "cool" amongst younger people. Over the years this country has become more and more godless, it explains the moral bankruptcy in this country.

 

 

 

Most claim to be free willed, but this is not true, they have let TV, movies, music and other things control the way they think and behave. I see this every day talking to clan members who call themselves atheists. Sad thing, can't imagine how this country is gonna be in 40 years. Frightens me to be perfectly honest. We are in control of our fate, another flood perhaps?

 

 

 

Not believing in god does not equal being morally "bankrupt",and i call [cabbage] on that one. I am fully capable of being a loving and caring person without the belief in a God,and so can others who live in the country. The country is certainly going down hill,but this is not the cause.

 

 

 

 

 

Who says you aren't. Most morality (In my opinion) stems from some belief or fear of god, whether or not you are an atheist or your parents are atheists, it stems from something. You get some of your views from your parents, as most do, they got theirs from their parents and so on. Atheists tend to believe morality comes from just the common decency of man. Which in my opinion is false, it comes from somewhere else, the belief or fear of god. I'm sure there are a lot of self proclaimed atheists out there that would pray to god on their death bed. It has happened to members of my family. Everyone has god in the back of their mind, they only use him when they are in need of something. Life.

 

 

 

You have your opinion I have mine.

[Lenticular_J]

If my definition does not suffice, how would you improve it?

 

Religion can be faith in anything. It's just more commonly a large, organized structuring with rituals and traditions, dedicated to the vague notion of a particular deity. There's a very, very thin (almost nonexistent) line between religion and personal beliefs, which is nigh impossible to interpret.

[Chained_life]

Yes I do believe in god, I always have. Sad thing is, these days not believing in god is "cool" amongst younger people. Over the years this country has become more and more godless, it explains the moral bankruptcy in this country.

 

 

 

Most claim to be free willed, but this is not true, they have let TV, movies, music and other things control the way they think and behave. I see this every day talking to clan members who call themselves atheists. Sad thing, can't imagine how this country is gonna be in 40 years. Frightens me to be perfectly honest. We are in control of our fate, another flood perhaps?

 

And what would you say is moral bankruptcy? Is anyone who thinks differently that you immoral? Why, with no proof presented to me, should I follow to standards set by some book? Why that book? Why should I believe in your god versus a different one, or none at all?

 

Forced moral standards are ridiculous. If you are just doing what it says so you get into heaven, and not go to hell, then you don't really care about the morals, you just want whats best for you.

 

 

 

Kids hitting their parents and teachers, drug use, teenage sex, suicide. Most has increased since the 60s, the whole hippy, liberal atheist thing. Since then, this country has gone to hell. In my opinion. You can believe what you want, that's your choice. You can believe that cockroach Maher, or some book. I'm not trying to force anything onto you, I'm voicing my opinion on the subject at hand, I don't think we will last as a country without some kind of moral bar. And no, I don't follow these morals or rules or anything because of my fear of going to hell. I follow them because I believe in them. You people tend to get very defensive when it comes to a diversity of opinion. :wall:

[dpattle]

Yes I do believe in god, I always have. Sad thing is, these days not believing in god is "cool" amongst younger people. Over the years this country has become more and more godless, it explains the moral bankruptcy in this country.

 

 

 

Most claim to be free willed, but this is not true, they have let TV, movies, music and other things control the way they think and behave. I see this every day talking to clan members who call themselves atheists. Sad thing, can't imagine how this country is gonna be in 40 years. Frightens me to be perfectly honest. We are in control of our fate, another flood perhaps?

 

 

 

Well you're kinda right there. I believe that's just about one of the best things of religion; it gives a moral base that is usually nothing but good for the community. Afterall, this country that we hold so dearly was based off of the morals of the Bible. Contrary to what many say, the bible doesn't prosecute anyone for actually having different beliefs, it welcomes them to join yes, but does not say they have to or they die. Unless ofcourse they do something aggressive to the religious community. Fact is, there were actually many non believers in biblical times. Also, i'm not saying all atheist are immoral btw.

[EdgedThesis]

By saying that morality comes from a supernatural source, you reveal a sad lack of faith in your own race.

 

 

 

People are moral because they are moral. Humans are compelled biologically to aid other humans when it is necessary. Hell, we even nurture things not of our species simply because our brain acknowledges them as human-like.

 

We, as a social species, harbor an altruism that lies not in some ethereal construct like the 'mind' or 'soul', but in fully tangible molecules coiling in your every cell.

 

 

 

Perhaps our intelligence overrides this instinct at times, but primal urges have some serious weight in every decision we take.

[Wisp]

Which in my opinion is false, it comes from somewhere else, the belief or fear of god.

 

[note]

 

Alright. Living a moral life out of fear of god is selfish. If your ultimate goal is to get to heaven, and you will follow the bible, and live a moral life according to it for this reason, all you really care about is yourself. If nothing else, right is what benefits, and lets the most people live a healthy, and happy life. only following a strict guideline is ridiculous.

 

If the majority of people who claimed to lead a moral life, by the bible actually cared about what was good for people, rather than getting themselves into heaven, the world would be a better place.

 

Example: So, I'm sitting at my house, and a man breaks down my door, and holds a gun to my head. He tells me to donate all my money to some charity (Which I may or may not support). I don't want to die, so I go online and donate. Am I being selfless, or moral? No. I'm thinking about saving my own [wagon].

 

 

 

Kids hitting their parents and teachers, drug use, teenage sex, suicide. Most has increased since the 60s, the whole hippy, liberal atheist thing. Since then, this country has gone to hell. In my opinion. You can believe what you want, that's your choice. You can believe that cockroach Maher, or some book. I'm not trying to force anything onto you, I'm voicing my opinion on the subject at hand, I don't think we will last as a country without some kind of moral bar. And no, I don't follow these morals or rules or anything because of my fear of going to hell. I follow them because I believe in them. You people tend to get very defensive when it comes to a diversity of opinion. :wall:

 

Let's start things off. For [bleep]s sake, kids hitting there teachers and parents. Unless they're physically trying to do them serious harm, they're probably just kids having a temper tantrum. Why are drugs immoral? Some of them might not be the best for you, but, neither is smoking, drinking beer or wine, (Which, if I recall, Jesus turned water to wine), or even something as simple as going out in the sun without wearing sunscreen. It might mess you up later down the road, but is it immoral?

 

Teenage sex. Why is it less moral for two 17 year olds, who love eachother (I know, the majority of sex isn't this, but, whatever.) to have sex? Even if there's no love, why does it matter, if they're smart, use protection, and whatnot, it's there choice.

[meol]

It's not that atheists "get very defensive when it comes to a diversity of opinion", it's just that your opinion is that 'hippy liberals and atheists have brought [your] country to hell and atheism is causing a moral bankruptcy'. Even I can get somewhat offended by that.

 

 

 

Religion (or God) and morals aren't mutually inclusive, and you should learn that. Calling out names and pointing fingers only makes you look as a child.

[dpattle]

Religion (or God) and morals aren't mutually inclusive, and you should learn that. Calling out names and pointing fingers only makes you look as a child.

 

 

 

Um, generally speaking, they are. Most religions teach some kind of moral lesson that's for the most part usually true; morally speaking anywayz.

[meol]

Religion (or God) and morals aren't mutually inclusive, and you should learn that. Calling out names and pointing fingers only makes you look as a child.

 

 

 

Um, generally speaking, they are. Most religions teach some kind of moral lesson that's for the most part usually true; morally speaking anywayz.

 

I'm not saying religions can't include morals, but that (1) being religious doesn't exclude you from behaving immorally, and that (2) you can have morals without being religious.

[dpattle]

Religion (or God) and morals aren't mutually inclusive, and you should learn that. Calling out names and pointing fingers only makes you look as a child.

 

 

 

Um, generally speaking, they are. Most religions teach some kind of moral lesson that's for the most part usually true; morally speaking anywayz.

 

I'm not saying religions can't include morals, but that (1) being religious doesn't exclude you from behaving immorally, and that (2) you can have morals without being religious.

 

 

 

Well yes, but (and again just generally speaking, not meaning ALL) people who have a religion tend to be more...morally strict in life, and people who don't...don't. Of course that doesn't mean all in either side. My religion (one of the protestant ones) believes that many who aren't believers will reach heaven, because they lived there life to the best of their ability and were in fact good people. Do that, and you're pretty much set whether there is a God or not.

[mmmcannibalism]

Well yes, but (and again just generally speaking, not meaning ALL) people who have a religion tend to be more...morally strict in life, and people who don't...don't. Of course that doesn't mean all in either side. My religion (one of the protestant ones) believes that many who aren't believers will reach heaven, because they lived there life to the best of their ability and were in fact good people. Do that, and you're pretty much set whether there is a God or not.

 

 

 

religious people tend to be more pious, not more moral. Not acting in a reserved manner doesnt make you less moral.

[dpattle]

Well yes, but (and again just generally speaking, not meaning ALL) people who have a religion tend to be more...morally strict in life, and people who don't...don't. Of course that doesn't mean all in either side. My religion (one of the protestant ones) believes that many who aren't believers will reach heaven, because they lived there life to the best of their ability and were in fact good people. Do that, and you're pretty much set whether there is a God or not.

 

 

 

religious people tend to be more pious, not more moral. Not acting in a reserved manner doesnt make you less moral.

 

 

 

No, but doing immoral things that religious people wouldn't do, does.

[mmmcannibalism]

Well yes, but (and again just generally speaking, not meaning ALL) people who have a religion tend to be more...morally strict in life, and people who don't...don't. Of course that doesn't mean all in either side. My religion (one of the protestant ones) believes that many who aren't believers will reach heaven, because they lived there life to the best of their ability and were in fact good people. Do that, and you're pretty much set whether there is a God or not.

 

 

 

religious people tend to be more pious, not more moral. Not acting in a reserved manner doesnt make you less moral.

 

 

 

No, but doing immoral things that religious people wouldn't do, does.

 

 

 

BTK, Dennis Raider(spelling) was a serial killer and I believe the minister of his church(certain he was christian). How would that have gotten worse if he was an atheist?

[dpattle]

Well yes, but (and again just generally speaking, not meaning ALL) people who have a religion tend to be more...morally strict in life, and people who don't...don't. Of course that doesn't mean all in either side. My religion (one of the protestant ones) believes that many who aren't believers will reach heaven, because they lived there life to the best of their ability and were in fact good people. Do that, and you're pretty much set whether there is a God or not.

 

 

 

religious people tend to be more pious, not more moral. Not acting in a reserved manner doesnt make you less moral.

 

 

 

No, but doing immoral things that religious people wouldn't do, does.

 

 

 

BTK, Dennis Raider(spelling) was a serial killer and I believe the minister of his church(certain he was christian). How would that have gotten worse if he was an atheist?

 

 

 

Thought you'd bring up something like that, this is exactly why I'm saying generally speaking. Everything that has to do with people and/or their actions has exceptions.

[user1991]

Well yes, but (and again just generally speaking, not meaning ALL) people who have a religion tend to be more...morally strict in life, and people who don't...don't. Of course that doesn't mean all in either side. My religion (one of the protestant ones) believes that many who aren't believers will reach heaven, because they lived there life to the best of their ability and were in fact good people. Do that, and you're pretty much set whether there is a God or not.

 

 

 

religious people tend to be more pious, not more moral. Not acting in a reserved manner doesnt make you less moral.

 

 

 

No, but doing immoral things that religious people wouldn't do, does.

 

 

 

BTK, Dennis Raider(spelling) was a serial killer and I believe the minister of his church(certain he was christian). How would that have gotten worse if he was an atheist?

 

 

 

Thought you'd bring up something like that, this is exactly why I'm saying generally speaking. Everything that has to do with people and/or their actions has exceptions.

 

 

 

Name me a moral action which a believer can perform, which an atheist/agnostic can not.

 

 

 

To the guy who talks of the "hippy atheist liberals," I think you need to do a bit of research on the role of religion in mass atrocities. Sure, religion was the start of charity, and a lot of other good, but you are hardly innocent when it comes to acts of terror and violence done in the name of God. Don't get too hung up on this point, because this isn't the main part of what I'm saying, but quit acting like religion's influence is solely positive. Also, why do you think an objective moral standard can only come from God? Have you managed to solve the Euthyphro dilemma too? You say that you aren't forcing it on anybody, yet how else do you plan to solve the problem you believe there to be?

 

 

 

Look, society and the common values of the people change over time. This isn't my opinion by the way, this is a fact. I'm not talking about morality even, just simply the way in which social contracts work and are formed, as well as managed by the state and by the majority. These all change. You need to stop trying to judge everything with the same religious moral certitude that people did in the 50s and 60s because we aren't living in those times. "drug use, teenage sex" - what is wrong with these things? (the age that it is legal to have sex is 16 here in the UK, and I think it is fine). Alcohol is a drug, do you go around condemning people sitting in bars relaxing with their friends after a week at work?

[dpattle]

[hide=]

Well yes, but (and again just generally speaking, not meaning ALL) people who have a religion tend to be more...morally strict in life, and people who don't...don't. Of course that doesn't mean all in either side. My religion (one of the protestant ones) believes that many who aren't believers will reach heaven, because they lived there life to the best of their ability and were in fact good people. Do that, and you're pretty much set whether there is a God or not.

 

 

 

religious people tend to be more pious, not more moral. Not acting in a reserved manner doesnt make you less moral.

 

 

 

No, but doing immoral things that religious people wouldn't do, does.

 

 

 

BTK, Dennis Raider(spelling) was a serial killer and I believe the minister of his church(certain he was christian). How would that have gotten worse if he was an atheist?

 

 

 

Thought you'd bring up something like that, this is exactly why I'm saying generally speaking. Everything that has to do with people and/or their actions has exceptions.

 

Name me a moral action which a believer can perform, which an atheist/agnostic can not.

 

 

 

To the guy who talks of the "hippy atheist liberals," I think you need to do a bit of research on the role of religion in mass atrocities. Sure, religion was the start of charity, and a lot of other good, but you are hardly innocent when it comes to acts of terror and violence done in the name of God. Don't get too hung up on this point, because this isn't the main part of what I'm saying, but quit acting like religion's influence is solely positive. Also, why do you think an objective moral standard can only come from God? Have you managed to solve the Euthyphro dilemma too? You say that you aren't forcing it on anybody, yet how else do you plan to solve the problem you believe there to be?

 

 

 

Look, society and the common values of the people change over time. This isn't my opinion by the way, this is a fact. I'm not talking about morality even, just simply the way in which social contracts work and are formed, as well as managed by the state and by the majority. These all change. You need to stop trying to judge everything with the same religious moral certitude that people did in the 50s and 60s because we aren't living in those times. "drug use, teenage sex" - what is wrong with these things? (the age that it is legal to have sex is 16 here in the UK, and I think it is fine). Alcohol is a drug, do you go around condemning people sitting in bars relaxing with their friends after a week at work?

[/hide]

 

Name me a moral action which a believer can perform, which an atheist/agnostic can not.

I swear the point of the reply to your post was to say that either side could do either. Nuf said. :wall:

 

 

 

You say that you aren't forcing it on anybody, yet how else do you plan to solve the problem you believe there to be?

 

Simple, we tell them about it. Then leave them to make their own decisions. Point blank period. To think about it, it's really hard to force someone to do something unless there is some kind of threat involved. As my Kindergarten teacher used to say when i said he made me do it: "Did he put a knife to your throat? No? Did he put a gun to you? No? Did he in any way threaten you or your family or any other personal aspect of your life? No? Then plainly he didn't make you do it!" This is beyond true.

 

 

 

You need to stop trying to judge everything with the same religious moral certitude that people did in the 50s and 60s because we aren't living in those times. "drug use, teenage sex" - what is wrong with these things?

 

There's a lot wrong with these things when they are [1]illegal, and [2] cause so much damage that whatever little good they actually do can barely be seen at all. Of course theres the moderation thing, but doing that can be so hard as the more you have at all, the more you want and feel you need. And on the sex issue, teens are 13+, is that right? Whenever something does more wrong than right, imo, something is wrong with it.

 

 

 

Sure, religion was the start of charity, and a lot of other good, but you are hardly innocent when it comes to acts of terror and violence done in the name of God.

 

Not "getting hung up" but religion, has done much much more good than it has bad. Also, this could be said about any belief whatsoever. I believe the whole Govt. is corrupt so i blow up congress, the house, and the white house while they're holding a meeting.

 

 

 

 

 

Yes it's true, you don't have to be a part of some religion to do good, i said that; but it is also true that the majority of people who have some religiously moral background do good. But to be fair there are some of everything that do something completely opposite of whatever they are part of.

[mmmcannibalism]

In what way do religious people have a tendency to be more moral?

 

 

 

the nazi's and KKK are christian organizations where is the tug of this tendency on them? Unless you mean that religious moral people have a tendency to be more moral which is a pointless claim. I really dont enjoy using these terrible hyperboles but the fact stands there are tons of examples of corruption crime etc. that was based on religion.