Is God real post your thoughts!

[dpattle]

You must look within yourself to save yourself from your other self. Only then will your true self reveal itself.

 

 

 

OT: i swear i heard that somewhere recently. where?? Would siggy, but i'm out of siggy space. lolz. Wonder what i'll do as i get more drops...hmm...

[Rebdragon]

You're anger has clouded you Judgment Reb.

 

You must look within yourself to save yourself from your other self. Only then will your true self reveal itself.

 

 

 

After 3 responses, saying that you need to calm down. You still haven't.

 

I was not talking about theorys, or how to define a theory, or various interpretations of the meaning of the word theory.

 

I was not defending what Dpattle was saying.

 

I made a simple statment which you read too much into.

 

I don't get angry, just annoyed.

 

 

 

The fact that he didn't respond to my post(s), that he didn't realize what a theory was, only makes that worst.

[i_love_burritos]

You must look within yourself to save yourself from your other self. Only then will your true self reveal itself.

 

 

 

OT: i swear i heard that somewhere recently. where?? Would siggy, but i'm out of siggy space. lolz. Wonder what i'll do as i get more drops...hmm...

 

 

 

I got that from Avatar, still remember it.

 

Zuko says it, Season 3, Episode 12, i think.

[Zierro]

"God is not real because the FSM is not real. God is just as likely as the FSM."

 

Nobody is suggesting that god is not real because the FSM is not real. :lol:

 

 

 

That's taking things out of context. I think you know that I meant, "Because the FSM has no evidence and it is just ridiculous claim, then god must be an equally ridiculous claim too because there's no evidence for him either." And for the record, I wasn't necessarily aiming that towards you.

[luluu247]

i believe there is a god, but not the god of religions on the earth, there are to many

 

holes in the proof of their gods being real. i don't think evoulution could happen either.

 

but no one will every now until they day (and even then they might not).

[Zierro]

No one can prove either, so really there are two possible choices we can make and believe:

 

 

 

1. That there is a deity somewhere that can control everything at will, but for some reason has decided not to reveal itself even though it would save millions of lives, or...

 

 

 

2. We are here because of sheer dumb luck.

 

 

 

And honestly, both sound just as illogical as the other.

[Lenticular_J]

'Sup Jesus.

[purfishx]

 

Yep. Which is why I believe Greek myths are more logical: Why would there be one God? Wouldn't he have children if he could do anyhting he wanted? :twss:

 

 

 

Probably he didn't want children? :twss:

[mmmcannibalism]

Yep. Which is why I believe Greek myths are more logical: Why would there be one God? Wouldn't he have children if he could do anyhting he wanted?

 

 

 

It is very faulty to try to figure out the thought process of any infinitely powerful being theoretical or not. Also some of the real possibilities are

 

 

 

1. That there is a deity somewhere that can control everything at will, but for some reason has decided not to reveal itself even though it would save millions of lives, or...

 

 

 

2. We are here because of sheer dumb luck.

 

 

 

3. there is a being that exists outside of our physics but has a limited amount of power, he could be infinitely good infinitely bad or in between, if his power is limited it is hard to tell

 

 

 

4. there is an infinitely powerful being, but he does not have a perfect character and is allowing suffering to exist for whatever reason

 

 

 

5. there was a god but he "killed" himself creating the universe

 

 

 

6. were in the matrix after the real humanity discovered there was/wasnt a god through some means we cant understand

 

 

 

7. were a science experiment of a higher species

 

 

 

Sparing everyone torture, it should be pretty clear by now that you cant simplify possible models of god into 1 or 2 examples.

[Saru Inc]

'Sup Jesus.

 

 

 

 

 

Lmao, TRUE.

[dpattle]

Yep. Which is why I believe Greek myths are more logical: Why would there be one God? Wouldn't he have children if he could do anyhting he wanted?

 

 

 

It is very faulty to try to figure out the thought process of any infinitely powerful being theoretical or not. Also some of the real possibilities are

 

 

 

1. That there is a deity somewhere that can control everything at will, but for some reason has decided not to reveal itself even though it would save millions of lives, or...

 

 

 

2. We are here because of sheer dumb luck.

 

 

 

3. there is a being that exists outside of our physics but has a limited amount of power, he could be infinitely good infinitely bad or in between, if his power is limited it is hard to tell

 

 

 

4. there is an infinitely powerful being, but he does not have a perfect character and is allowing suffering to exist for whatever reason

 

 

 

5. there was a god but he "killed" himself creating the universe

 

 

 

6. were in the matrix after the real humanity discovered there was/wasnt a god through some means we cant understand

 

 

 

7. were a science experiment of a higher species

 

 

 

Sparing everyone torture, it should be pretty clear by now that you cant simplify possible models of god into 1 or 2 examples.

 

 

 

*peter griffin laugh* i like #7.

 

 

 

But anywho, one thing that i think is important, is to just plainly take a look, a deep look at the world in which we live. Why is it, that we are the only inhabited planet in this solar system, as far as we know? why is it that THIS particular world just so happened to have what was needed to sustain life? Could it all really just be a coincidence, or luck even? Think about how everything is so tightly interwoven, how ecosystems balance themselves out, how many species there are, the smallest units of life, how things we can't even see are constantly acting upon us and the world daily. Lastly think about life of humans in general. How we have advanced. Now, when you look at this, you may realize that humans have infact greatly advanced in all ways conceivable. But looking even closer, one can see how we got here, which is simply, thinking. There had to be some intelligence before we could move away from straw houses and whatnot, and build economy's and empires. Intelligence had to be involved for just us to advance the little that we have. Now how then can you say that the world itself evolved, all on its own without any intelligent help whatsoever. What if we as humans didn't have the intelligence we do have, would we have evolved? Then how can a world that doesn't have that intel evolve all on it's own. Therein i believe most will find an answer looked for, yet not expected. Thats what i have to say. Hope i said it correctly and in a way you may which sheds new light on the big picture.

[Flyingjj]

Why can't this topic just burn in the fiery place of your choice(hell, through Agni, an incinerator, etc)?

[dpattle]

Why can't this topic just burn in the fiery place of your choice(hell, through Agni, an incinerator, etc)?

 

 

 

Seriously, was that necessary? because i cant/dont see how it was. :|

[Flyingjj]

Why can't this topic just burn in the fiery place of your choice(hell, through Agni, an incinerator, etc)?

 

 

 

Seriously, was that necessary? because i cant/dont see how it was. :|

 

 

 

No, it was probably not necessary, but really I now side with the people who say that everything that can be said in this topic has been said, and I am sick of seeing it revived about once every week or two only to see people say something that has already been said, get flamed for saying it, possibly come up with something new to say, and then get flamed for saying it. Then the topic dies, and someone feels the need to say that "yep, I believe in God for such and such a reason," starting the whole process over again.

 

 

 

"Yes, I believe in God. Here's why."

 

"This is why your why is wrong."

 

"Here's why your why my why is wrong is wrong."

 

"That's an invalid source."

 

"I don't care."

 

Repeat about 500 times and you get this topic.

 

 

 

There, better?

 

[/rant]

 

 

 

Sorry for that, I've had a bad day. I do actually believe in God, and try not to be such a cynic most days. Carry on.

[mmmcannibalism]

[hide=]

But anywho, one thing that i think is important, is to just plainly take a look, a deep look at the world in which we live. Why is it, that we are the only inhabited planet in this solar system, as far as we know? why is it that THIS particular world just so happened to have what was needed to sustain life? Could it all really just be a coincidence, or luck even? Think about how everything is so tightly interwoven, how ecosystems balance themselves out, how many species there are, the smallest units of life, how things we can't even see are constantly acting upon us and the world daily. Lastly think about life of humans in general. How we have advanced. Now, when you look at this, you may realize that humans have infact greatly advanced in all ways conceivable. But looking even closer, one can see how we got here, which is simply, thinking. There had to be some intelligence before we could move away from straw houses and whatnot, and build economy's and empires. Intelligence had to be involved for just us to advance the little that we have. Now how then can you say that the world itself evolved, all on its own without any intelligent help whatsoever. What if we as humans didn't have the intelligence we do have, would we have evolved? Then how can a world that doesn't have that intel evolve all on it's own. Therein i believe most will find an answer looked for, yet not expected. Thats what i have to say. Hope i said it correctly and in a way you may which sheds new light on the big picture.

[/hide]

 

Its fine reasoning and all but then again how many planets are there in the universe? If there is a one in ten billion chance of intelligent life developing on a planet and there are twenty billion planets it doesnt surprise me that there is at least one such planet. It could be divinely inspired, but then again it could just be probability.

[Lateralus]

But anywho, one thing that i think is important, is to just plainly take a look, a deep look at the world in which we live. Why is it, that we are the only inhabited planet in this solar system, as far as we know? why is it that THIS particular world just so happened to have what was needed to sustain life? Could it all really just be a coincidence, or luck even? Think about how everything is so tightly interwoven, how ecosystems balance themselves out, how many species there are, the smallest units of life, how things we can't even see are constantly acting upon us and the world daily. Lastly think about life of humans in general. How we have advanced. Now, when you look at this, you may realize that humans have infact greatly advanced in all ways conceivable. But looking even closer, one can see how we got here, which is simply, thinking. There had to be some intelligence before we could move away from straw houses and whatnot, and build economy's and empires. Intelligence had to be involved for just us to advance the little that we have. Now how then can you say that the world itself evolved, all on its own without any intelligent help whatsoever. What if we as humans didn't have the intelligence we do have, would we have evolved? Then how can a world that doesn't have that intel evolve all on it's own. Therein i believe most will find an answer looked for, yet not expected. Thats what i have to say. Hope i said it correctly and in a way you may which sheds new light on the big picture.

 

 

 

You don't understand evolution.

[Lenticular_J]

Why can't this topic just burn in the fiery place of your choice(hell, through Agni, an incinerator, etc)?

 

 

 

Seriously, was that necessary? because i cant/dont see how it was. :|

 

Yes, it was. Because this thread needs a stake through its heart. I may call Buffy.

[mmmcannibalism]

[hide=]

[hide=]

But anywho, one thing that i think is important, is to just plainly take a look, a deep look at the world in which we live. Why is it, that we are the only inhabited planet in this solar system, as far as we know? why is it that THIS particular world just so happened to have what was needed to sustain life? Could it all really just be a coincidence, or luck even? Think about how everything is so tightly interwoven, how ecosystems balance themselves out, how many species there are, the smallest units of life, how things we can't even see are constantly acting upon us and the world daily. Lastly think about life of humans in general. How we have advanced. Now, when you look at this, you may realize that humans have infact greatly advanced in all ways conceivable. But looking even closer, one can see how we got here, which is simply, thinking. There had to be some intelligence before we could move away from straw houses and whatnot, and build economy's and empires. Intelligence had to be involved for just us to advance the little that we have. Now how then can you say that the world itself evolved, all on its own without any intelligent help whatsoever. What if we as humans didn't have the intelligence we do have, would we have evolved? Then how can a world that doesn't have that intel evolve all on it's own. Therein i believe most will find an answer looked for, yet not expected. Thats what i have to say. Hope i said it correctly and in a way you may which sheds new light on the big picture.

[/hide]

 

Its fine reasoning and all but then again how many planets are there in the universe? If there is a one in ten billion chance of intelligent life developing on a planet and there are twenty billion planets it doesnt surprise me that there is at least one such planet. It could be divinely inspired, but then again it could just be probability.

 

Well, my reasoning is that human life would originate on whatever planet could support us. So really it makes no difference which planet, we would eveolve there anyway.

[/hide]

 

 

 

evolution is change through random mutation and natural selection, so even if there is another perfect clone of earth it doesnt mean humans live on it.

[tryto]

 

Actually, it's estimated that there's around 3.0 × 10^21 planets in the known universe. That's one sextillion.

 

 

 

http://www.mso.anu.edu.au/~charley/pape ... aver06.pdf

 

[dpattle]

... -.-

 

 

 

Point still stands, can it really be that all that happened randomly? without any mistakes in positioning? with everything balanced as it is? Could that really be "just luck?"

[deathdrow]

Yep. Which is why I believe Greek myths are more logical: Why would there be one God? Wouldn't he have children if he could do anyhting he wanted? :twss:

 

because he's embarassed that he made animals who are bigger than he is.

[warri0r45]

... -.-

 

 

 

Point still stands, can it really be that all that happened randomly? without any mistakes in positioning? with everything balanced as it is? Could that really be "just luck?"

 

 

 

Sure, I don't see why not.

 

 

 

Even if a planet that could support life was very rare, then we would be an example of the small fraction of planets that supports life. In this case, you shouldn't be surprised that we're in such an advantageous point in the universe.

[mmmcannibalism]

... -.-

 

 

 

Point still stands, can it really be that all that happened randomly? without any mistakes in positioning? with everything balanced as it is? Could that really be "just luck?"

 

 

 

yes it could, Ill try to address your questions as best I can, realize I believe in god but still hold what Im about to say as true.

 

 

 

1. well fatalism aside, as random as everything is theres nothing that states our conciousness couldnt have evolved in a similiar species(thinner frame if warmer planet, more hair if colder etc. Indeed, the odds of this exact world developing are very very tiny, but then again the odds of some intelligent life developing somewhere in the universe are pretty good. If there is some intelligent life and it manages to make it to the advanced "level" we are at it makes sense for this type of debate to occur. Just consider the scale of the universe, earth is nothing next to it so why should we assume our intelligence is somehow amazing relative to what else may be out there?

 

 

 

2. what makes you think there are a lack of mistakes?

 

 

 

3/4 see point 1

[tryto]

... -.-

 

 

 

Point still stands, can it really be that all that happened randomly? without any mistakes in positioning? with everything balanced as it is? Could that really be "just luck?"

 

 

 

Sure, I don't see why not.

 

 

 

Even if a planet that could support life was very rare, then we would be an example of the small fraction of planets that supports life. In this case, you shouldn't be surprised that we're in such an advantageous point in the universe.

 

 

 

 

 

This is called the Anthropic Principle. As Penrose put it :

 

 

 

The argument can be used to explain why the conditions happen to be just right for the existence of (intelligent) life on the earth at the present time. For if they were not just right, then we should not have found ourselves to be here now, but somewhere else, at some other appropriate time. This principle was used very effectively by Brandon Carter and Robert [bleep]e to resolve an issue that had puzzled physicists for a good many years. The issue concerned various striking numerical relations that are observed to hold between the physical constants (the gravitational constant, the mass of the proton, the age of the universe, etc.). A puzzling aspect of this was that some of the relations hold only at the present epoch in the earth's history, so we appear, coincidentally, to be living at a very special time (give or take a few million years!). This was later explained, by Carter and [bleep]e, by the fact that this epoch coincided with the lifetime of what are called main-sequence stars, such as the sun. At any other epoch, so the argument ran, there would be no intelligent life around in order to measure the physical constants in question-so the coincidence had to hold, simply because there would be intelligent life around only at the particular time that the coincidence did hold!

 

 

 

Simply because we are here to observe it, these conditions must be right for life. If the conditions on earth were NOT right for life, we wouldn't be here to observe it. If the universe was not right for life, no one would be there to observe it. For a species to say "Why is the universe right for life?" it is necessary that the universe that they are in is right for life. If it wasn't, then they wouldn't be there to observe it.

[dpattle]

... -.-

 

 

 

Point still stands, can it really be that all that happened randomly? without any mistakes in positioning? with everything balanced as it is? Could that really be "just luck?"

 

 

 

yes it could, Ill try to address your questions as best I can, realize I believe in god but still hold what Im about to say as true.

 

 

 

1. well fatalism aside, as random as everything is theres nothing that states our conciousness couldnt have evolved in a similiar species(thinner frame if warmer planet, more hair if colder etc. Indeed, the odds of this exact world developing are very very tiny, but then again the odds of some intelligent life developing somewhere in the universe are pretty good. If there is some intelligent life and it manages to make it to the advanced "level" we are at it makes sense for this type of debate to occur. Just consider the scale of the universe, earth is nothing next to it so why should we assume our intelligence is somehow amazing relative to what else may be out there?

 

 

 

2. what makes you think there are a lack of mistakes?

 

 

 

3/4 see point 1

 

 

 

True, but it is highly unlikely. I guess to me it just seems more reasonable to believe in a God or some other form of higher intelligence and power. And maybe there are some types of mistakes in the universe? I said what i said because of how balanced it seems, and from what I've heard from different professors and teachers, some small detail gone wrong could have a massive impact and ruin this balance...thats what i meant.