Summoning Level : Combat Ratio |||| 138 cmb = 95 summoning?

[Latinoking]

Zezima will be 138 first.

 

 

 

He did get 99 Slayer first.

[jettrider]

Could the extra 1 summoning level get a F2p player to 127?

 

 

 

No. The max combat for f2p is still under 126.5; I doubt they'll ever be getting 127.

 

 

 

There's only 1 f2p player with 126 combat now, anyway. This pushes the required prayer level to 97, which saves like...30m for f2p'ers O_o

[Systemless]

Based on the assumption, that summoning will be added to the combat level like prayer is added to it and the current 100% correct combat formula, you get the following facts:

 

 

 

- max combat level of 138 (confirmed by jagex)

 

- the "additional" summoning level 1 will not changed the combat level of any player

 

- for combat 138 you need at least all maxed out but:

 

... 98 prayer and 96 summoning or

 

... 96 prayer and 98 summoning

 

- with all maxed out but the following levels you will be only combat 137

 

... 99 prayer and 95 summoning or

 

... 95 prayer and 99 summoning or

 

... 97 prayer and 97 summoning

 

 

 

These results are based on the 100% correct combat formula for runescape without summoning and adding summoning in the most natural way using the hints from jagex. You can find a website based implementation (no download needed) of the "new" formula here http://www.rscommunity.de/index.php?opt ... &Itemid=65

 

 

 

The calculator is in german, so here the translation for those who are not used to the german runescape:

 

 

 

Verteidigung: Defence

 

Lebenspunkte: Hitpoints

 

Gebet: Prayer

 

Angriff: Attack

 

Fernkampf: Ranged

 

Magie: Magic

 

StÃÆÃâÃâärke: Strength

 

Beschw̮̦̉̉rung: Summoning

 

Nahkampf: Melee

 

Stufe: Level

 

Kampfstufe : Combat Level

 

Berechnen: Calculate

 

L̮̦̉̉schen: Reset

 

Laden: Load

 

 

 

The calculations made in the first post can only be approximations. They should be correct up to +/- 1 combat level. But the structure of the exact combat formula makes it difficult to do any exact math the way it is tried in the first post.

 

 

 

.: Systemless :.

[Toad]

Very interesting :P I'm also curious how it will affect you at lower levels as I'm 100 combat.

 

 

 

Wonder who will be the first 138 :-k

 

 

 

My guess is either;

 

Venom0619 or Fredmcgarry.

 

 

 

fred can only really do buyables, his pockets are deep.. so if its buyable sure if it isnt buyable.. goodluck to him

 

 

 

Venom sure why not he knows what its like to do none buyables and has the patience, i bet on anyone who has the time of release has no job, or no school to go to.

[@Dan3HitU]

Very interesting :P I'm also curious how it will affect you at lower levels as I'm 100 combat.

 

 

 

Wonder who will be the first 138 :-k

 

 

 

My guess is either;

 

Venom0619 or Fredmcgarry.

 

 

 

fred can only really do buyables, his pockets are deep.. so if its buyable sure if it isnt buyable.. goodluck to him

 

 

 

Venom sure why not he knows what its like to do none buyables and has the patience, i bet on anyone who has the time of release has no job, or no school to go to.

 

 

 

Fred can also do non-buyable but he's at school when Summoning's out, so I rule him out.

[jettrider]

Based on the assumption, that summoning will be added to the combat level like prayer is added to it and the current 100% correct combat formula, you get the following facts:

 

 

 

- max combat level of 138 (confirmed by jagex)

 

- the "additional" summoning level 1 will not changed the combat level of any player

 

- for combat 138 you need at least all maxed out but:

 

... 98 prayer and 96 summoning or

 

... 96 prayer and 98 summoning

 

- with all maxed out but the following levels you will be only combat 137

 

... 99 prayer and 95 summoning or

 

... 95 prayer and 99 summoning or

 

... 97 prayer and 97 summoning

 

 

 

 

I just don't understand what you mean by this. Based on the assumption that prayer adds to combat just the same way that summoning will, how can a total of 192 prayer/summoning levels be different from 192 of those levels with a different distribution?

 

 

 

 

But the structure of the exact combat formula makes it difficult to do any exact math the way it is tried in the first post.

 

 

 

 

Explain what you mean by "the structure of the exact combat formula."

[Systemless]

lets assume that the current formula has the following structure (which is actually true):

 

 

 

combat = h(f(prayer) + g(defence, hitpoints, attack, strength, magic, ranged))

 

 

 

where the function f has the property f(1) = 0, and the function g is close to a linear function.

 

 

 

The best guess for "prayer adds to combat just the same way that summoning will" is:

 

 

 

combat = h(f(prayer) + f(summoning) + g(defence, hitpoints, attack, strength, magic, ranged))

 

 

 

and since f(1) = 0, this doesn't even modify the combat of any player just by giving everyone summoning level 1. And it gives a maximal combat level of 138 as documented by Jagex.

 

 

 

It is clear, that h(f(97) + f(97) + g)) does not need to be equal to h(f(96) + f(98) + g)) or h(f(95) + f(99) + g)). But it is still symmetric in prayer and summoning, so you can always exchange your prayer and summoning level without changing your combat level.

 

 

 

Since the combat formula has a good approximation of the form

 

 

 

cmb = floor(a * prayer + b * defence + c * hitpoints + max(d * attack + e * strength, f * magic, g * ranged))

 

 

 

your calculation can give a good approximation as well, but it remains an approximation.

 

 

 

.: Systemless :.

[jettrider]

I don't understand most of your post. I quoted the part I did.

 

 

 

 

It is clear, that h(f(97) + f(97) + g)) does not need to be equal to h(f(96) + f(98) + g)) or h(f(95) + f(99) + g)).

 

 

 

Or does it? If you start with the assumption that your variable f is the same for prayer and summoning, you can make any of those f(194) instead without affecting your combat level.

 

 

 

 

But it is still symmetric in prayer and summoning, so you can always exchange your prayer and summoning level without changing your combat level.

 

 

 

Your very own quote appears to agree with this.

[Neglexis]

The max combat level is 126.23. Its something close to a combat level every 4 defence or hitpoints levels and one every 3 attack or strength levels. Prayer is obviously one every 8.

 

 

 

The max combat is NOT 123.23!

 

99 prayer equals 98 prayer in the RuneScape combat formula!

 

 

 

I'll tell you how prayer is used in calculating your combat level:

 

(gotten from the RSOF post by Maxwaterman)

 

 

 

The value prayer gets, is your prayer multiplied with 50.

 

This, however, ONLY counts if your prayer level is EVEN.

 

If it would happen to be odd, the value that is multiplied, would be your (level - 1).

 

 

 

So the value both prayer levels would get:

 

 

 

98 prayer = 4900

 

99 prayer = 4900

 

 

 

So 126.105 is the maximum combat level, not 126.230

 

 

 

 

I've been asked how summoning will affect f2p. I'm assuming the skill will be p2p, but f2p will pick up level 1 summoning from it. This will give the effect of an extra prayer level free of charge.

 

 

 

Seen as the value for summoning will be the same as prayer, 1 summoning wouldn't affect F2P combat level AT ALL.

 

 

 

The proof.

 

 

 

The numerical value summoning would have in the Combat level of a F2P'er would be

 

 

 

(1 - 1) * 400 = 0, so 1 summoning can NOT affect combat level!

 

[ Formula: (Level (-1 if level is odd)) * 400 ]

 

 

 

[hide=Mathematical Support]

 

By Random_Joe1's Reasoning

 

96 is divisible by 8. However, you have an extra prayer level left over from 99. Therefore its kicked down a level to 95.

 

 

 

The 96 Summoning is the level that would be needed for 138 combat, since you don't really have an extra prayer level left (check above reasoning)

 

 

 

Therefore, 96 Summoning = 138 combat

 

 

 

Not 95, because 95 summoning counts as 94 when following the Combat Formula!

 

 

 

I hope this makes some sense and helps in any way!

[Systemless]

I agree with what steiner posted.

 

 

 

And to my post above: f(x) is a function of x. For example f could be

 

 

 

f(x) := round(x/4).

 

 

 

then

 

 

 

f(34) + f(32) = round(8.5) + round(8) = 9 + 8 = 17

 

 

 

f(33) + f(33) = round(8.25) + round(8.25) = 8 + 8 = 16

 

 

 

f(66) = round(16.5) = 17

 

 

 

depending on the function f, you need to keep it as sum of the function (instead of funtion of the sum).

 

 

 

I hope its more clear now what I tried to say. Otherwise, just follow the post of steiner.

 

 

 

.: Systemless :.

[Winner5555]

Very interesting :P I'm also curious how it will affect you at lower levels as I'm 100 combat.

 

 

 

Wonder who will be the first 138 :-k

 

 

 

My guess is either;

 

Venom0619 or Fredmcgarry.

 

 

 

fred can only really do buyables, his pockets are deep.. so if its buyable sure if it isnt buyable.. goodluck to him

 

 

 

Venom sure why not he knows what its like to do none buyables and has the patience, i bet on anyone who has the time of release has no job, or no school to go to.

 

 

 

Fred can also do non-buyable but he's at school when Summoning's out, so I rule him out.

 

 

 

Whenever a new skill comes out and I look at hiscores, I always see Venom, but I can't remember him being first to 99 in a skill, it seems like he falls behind in the 90's...Has there been one where he actually made it?

[jettrider]

I admit, this is out of my level of math here as for creating functions (I can understand them) and although I see your point there Systemless, but does it apply?

 

|

 

v

 

 

 

The max combat level is 126.23. Its something close to a combat level every 4 defence or hitpoints levels and one every 3 attack or strength levels. Prayer is obviously one every 8.

 

99 prayer equals 98 prayer in the RuneScape combat formula!

 

 

 

The value prayer gets, is your prayer multiplied with 50.

 

This, however, ONLY counts if your prayer level is EVEN.

 

If it would happen to be odd, the value that is multiplied, would be your (level - 1).

 

 

 

 

I've read maxwaterman's post, and while I think its great for being a more accurate calculator, I do NOT agree with the round your odd prayer level down. Let me first state that we use the same formula, me just with decimals.

 

 

 

A level is a level; it doesn't become uncounted because its fraction is off! The reason he did this is as follows..(using my character as an example)

 

 

 

97 attack + 94 strength = 62.075 combat levels

 

99 defence + 99 hitpoints = 49.5 combat levels

 

99 prayer = 12.375 combat levels

 

Total = 123.95 combat

 

 

 

If we had subtracted a prayer level we would end up with 123.825, which could be leveled to 124 with any non-prayer stat. Therefore an extra prayer level doesn't matter with a dynamic combat level.

 

 

 

However, it does matter! Its still there! There is no way that 126.23 combat is equal to 126.105 combat. Just because you can't yet see the effects doesn't mean that the max combat level is only as high as you can observe the effects (125->126). Consider this..

 

 

 

99 attack+defence+defence+hitpoints = 113.85

 

99 prayer + 7 summoning = 106 prayer = 13.25 combat

 

Total = 127.1 combat

 

 

 

Whereas if we would believe that 99 prayer = 98 prayer and an odd summoning level gets rounded down

 

 

 

98 prayer + 6 summoning = 104 = 13 combat = 126.85

 

NOTE: 99 prayer + 6 summoning or 98 prayer + 7 summoning = 105 = 13.125 combat = 126.975

 

 

 

Here's another quote that I can counter:

 

 

 

 

Not 95, because 95 summoning counts as 94 when following the Combat Formula!

 

 

 

But with the advent of summoning, with summoning being the same as prayer level, it gives you an opportunity where two odds equal an even. 51+51 = 102, not round(51) =50 + round(51) = 50 = 100.

 

 

 

 

 

As I said earlier, I'm out of my level of math, but this makes it clear to me that it does matter.

[Systemless]

I've read maxwaterman's post, and while I think its great for being a more accurate calculator, I do NOT agree with the round your odd prayer level down. Let me first state that we use the same formula, me just with decimals.

 

 

 

I understand that it may seem very strange to first drop one prayer level if it is odd. But you need to direct your complaint to Jagex here :XD: It does not help to use a different formula, just because it does not make sense to you.

 

 

 

.: Systemless :.

[Outhit]

Nice guid and nice math tbh :-s =D>

[Neglexis]

A level is a level; it doesn't become uncounted because its fraction is off! The reason he did this is as follows..(using my character as an example)

 

 

 

One question:

 

Have you ever known anyone who gained a combat level after his prayer level went up to an odd level (ANY level!)?

 

 

 

If so, please post proof/picture!

 

 

 

Because so far, no one has ever gained a combat level by getting an extra prayer level and having odd prayer!

 

 

 

However, it does matter! Its still there! There is no way that 126.23 combat is equal to 126.105 combat. Just because you can't yet see the effects doesn't mean that the max combat level is only as high as you can observe the effects (125->126). Consider this..

 

 

 

Forget the 126.23 combat!

 

NO ONE is 126.23 combat, at the moment, 126.105 is the maximum combat, and yes, one prayer level is knocked off in the formula!

 

 

 

But with the advent of summoning, with summoning being the same as prayer level, it gives you an opportunity where two odds equal an even. 51+51 = 102, not round(51) =50 + round(51) = 50 = 100.

 

 

 

THIS ofcourse is the question, and this is a point that I neither agree nor counter.

 

 

 

We will have to find out wether summoning and prayer will be counted sepparate or that they will be used together!

 

 

 

So, it COULD be that leveling from an odd Summoning/Prayer will be possible in the future, but only if Jagex will use Summoning and Prayer together!

[I_Dragonov_I]

:shock: Nice Maths!

 

It'll be shocking to see some 138's.

 

Although, how will this new skill effect Pures or Tanks?

[Neglexis]

To prove that an odd prayer level can't level up combat, I will be using myself as an example!

 

 

 

At the moment, my stats are:

 

 

 

81 Attack

 

86 Defence

 

81 Strength

 

85 Hitpoints

 

70 Prayer

 

82 Ranged

 

82 Magic

 

 

 

This brings me to a combat level of 104.15!

 

 

 

Now, to reach 105 combat level, I would either need:

 

 

 

* 7 Prayer levels: If and odd prayer level DOES count!

 

* 8 Prayer levels: If odd prayer DOES NOT count!

 

 

 

Now, most calculator tell me I need 8 prayer levels, but as we all know, computer operated things CAN be wrong at times, so I will be testing this out myself!

 

 

 

Although this may take me a few months, I WILL prove my point!

[jettrider]

I never wanted to prove that you could level off an odd prayer level. In my post above, after doing the math myself, I came up with this conclusion:

 

 

 

Therefore an extra prayer level doesn't matter with a dynamic combat level.

 

 

 

What I was really trying to prove is

 

 

 

 

But with the advent of summoning, with summoning being the same as prayer level, it gives you an opportunity where two odds equal an even. 51+51 = 102, not round(51) =50 + round(51) = 50 = 100.

 

 

 

THIS ofcourse is the question, and this is a point that I neither agree nor counter.

 

 

 

We will have to find out whether summoning and prayer will be counted separate or that they will be used together!

 

 

 

So, it COULD be that leveling from an odd Summoning/Prayer will be possible in the future, but only if Jagex will use Summoning and Prayer together!

 

 

 

I firmly believe that although they cannot level you to a new combat, or even if they can, odd prayer levels are still counted within your combat. Summoning will give us a chance to see.

[Neglexis]

 

I firmly believe that although they cannot level you to a new combat, or even if they can, odd prayer levels are still counted within your combat. Summoning will give us a chance to see.

 

 

 

How can they count in your combat, while not being able to level it? :-k

[jettrider]

 

I firmly believe that although they cannot level you to a new combat, or even if they can, odd prayer levels are still counted within your combat. Summoning will give us a chance to see.

 

 

 

How can they count in your combat, while not being able to level it? :-k

 

 

 

Because with an odd prayer level you can level up on an odd summoning level and vice versa.

 

 

 

The combat formula does not give a fourth of a combat level every even prayer level. It gives an eighth every prayer level.

[Neglexis]

Because with an odd prayer level you can level up on an odd summoning level and vice versa.

 

 

 

So, what you're saying is that your theory is ONLY correct if Prayer and Summoning will be added, instead of being counted in sepparatly?

 

 

 

The combat formula does not give a fourth of a combat level every even prayer level. It gives an eighth every prayer level.

 

 

 

WRONG, because if you would follow this, you should be able to level up from an odd prayer!

[jettrider]

Because with an odd prayer level you can level up on an odd summoning level and vice versa.

 

 

 

So, what you're saying is that your theory is ONLY correct if Prayer and Summoning will be added, instead of being counted in sepparatly?

 

 

 

The combat formula does not give a fourth of a combat level every even prayer level. It gives an eighth every prayer level.

 

 

 

WRONG, because if you would follow this, you should be able to level up from an odd prayer!

 

 

 

I quote my post above!

 

 

 

 

97 attack + 94 strength = 62.075 combat levels

 

99 defence + 99 hitpoints = 49.5 combat levels

 

99 prayer = 12.375 combat levels

 

Total = 123.95 combat

 

 

 

I agree with you! You can't level off of an odd prayer level. It seems not to matter because with the even pray level before it, you can level up with any A/S/D/H.

 

 

 

Now imagine, to see my thinking, that summoning is just a way to boost the max prayer level to 198. Basically, yes, I'm willing to make the assumption that because they count towards combat the same amount that combat will be based off of a combination of summoning and prayer with the melee stat.

 

 

 

This assumption is really key, and cannot be proved with prayer.

[Outhit]

WoW :ohnoes: