baalboy5 Posted July 18, 2008 Author Share Posted July 18, 2008 Ya your right. They have no reason at all for being there. Ok, so you justify people being put into basically a prison camp without trial just because the CIA, FBI or army says they're terrorists. You're country is full of contradictions, you love your "freedom" yet you don't mind imprisoning people without a fair trial, yet alone even a trial and you don't mind imposing democracy and capitalism on Iraq. That sure is a love for freedom right there :roll: retracted til I find the source, Don't you know the first rule of MMO's? Anyone higher level than you has no life, and anyone lower than you is a noob. People in OT eat glass when they are bored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
re4p3r1 Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 If your talking about America's freedom rules then yes, we have rules to limit war prisioners in war. we are aloud to throw one in jail without trial, its part of the consitution. what part of the constitution says that!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baalboy5 Posted July 18, 2008 Author Share Posted July 18, 2008 If your talking about America's freedom rules then yes, we have rules to limit war prisioners in war. we are aloud to throw one in jail without trial, its part of the consitution. what part of the constitution says that!?! I'm looking for the source, but I know its in there, give me a min. Don't you know the first rule of MMO's? Anyone higher level than you has no life, and anyone lower than you is a noob. People in OT eat glass when they are bored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
re4p3r1 Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 i'm pretty sure you cant just "jail" someone for no reason. now keeping them in custody for question or something is a different story but technically you cant sentence someone to jail without a trial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magekillr Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 i'm pretty sure you cant just "jail" someone for no reason. now keeping them in custody for question or something is a different story but technically you cant sentence someone to jail without a trial. Yeah they can. Well I take that back, they can't anymore, now that the Supreme Court said so :thumbsup: \ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichieMcD Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 If your talking about America's freedom rules then yes, we have rules to limit war prisioners in war. we are aloud to throw one in jail without trial, its part of the consitution. How can you jail someone for being part of a terrorist organization outside the USA who have done no crime towards America? If they've done no crime towards the USA then what legally allows you to jail them? That's like me arresting a member of the "KKK" just for example and throwing them into a Irish jail without trial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nero Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 Jack you strike me as someone who would've willingly gone along with (and believed wholly) Hoover's communist conspiracy theories if you had lived in that time. Vienna Raszyn Warsaw Klushino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenticular_J Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 But they were true. I laugh at you if you believe I would believe that. catch it now so you can like it before it went so mainstream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baalboy5 Posted July 18, 2008 Author Share Posted July 18, 2008 If your talking about America's freedom rules then yes, we have rules to limit war prisioners in war. we are aloud to throw one in jail without trial, its part of the consitution. How can you jail someone for being part of a terrorist organization outside the USA who have done no crime towards America? If they've done no crime towards the USA then what legally allows you to jail them? That's like me arresting a member of the "KKK" just for example and throwing them into a Irish jail without trial. I retracted my comment, that dude quoted me didn't fix his Don't you know the first rule of MMO's? Anyone higher level than you has no life, and anyone lower than you is a noob. People in OT eat glass when they are bored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackattack Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 If your talking about America's freedom rules then yes, we have rules to limit war prisioners in war. we are aloud to throw one in jail without trial, its part of the consitution. How can you jail someone for being part of a terrorist organization outside the USA who have done no crime towards America? If they've done no crime towards the USA then what legally allows you to jail them? That's like me arresting a member of the "KKK" just for example and throwing them into a Irish jail without trial. It's not jailing. If they sentenced them to life in prison that would be jailing. They are holding them because they are still dangerous and it is a time of war. Even the U.N. has acknowledged our right to do that. Of the 500 or so people that were at gitmo 400 have been released. 1 in 8 has been confirmed to go back to terrorism. Should they let the other hundred (the really bad ones) go? Ya your right. They have no reason at all for being there. Staggering. You despise this supposedly new-found ideology of 'terrorism', and here you are giving apathetic reactions to methods of prison torture which instill terror into people who have never even had a fair trial. How on Earth can you lecture us about the dangers of terrorism when you cannot even sort your own country out? Absolutely unbelievable hypocrisy. Your really equating terrorism to putting designs that give prisoners headaches in a jail cell? I wouldn't call that torture. EDIT:OT President Bush just reached an agreement with Maliki for the timetable he wanted. This is a smart timetable where it can be changed based on the conditions on the ground. This just shows how much progress that we have made. Not just that the Iraqis asked for it but also that Bush agreed to it. Lucky those Nancy boys in congress didn't get there way. My carbon footprint is bigger than yours...and you know what they say about big feet. These are the times that try mens souls... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginger_Warrior Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 Your really equating terrorism to putting designs that give prisoners headaches in a jail cell? I wouldn't call that torture. Terrorism: defined by the U.S. Department of Defense as "the unlawful use of -- or threatened use of -- force or violence against individuals or property to coerce or intimidate". How does this 'torture' not fit in with the US DoD's own definition of terrorism? | Favourite Game Music | Last.fm | HYT Friend Chat Rules | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackattack Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 ^^ Whats with that music? Anyway they only waterboarded 3 people. One of them was khalid sheikh mohammed. Especially when they only did it to him for less than 45 seconds and got information that stopped a plot to take down the largest building on the West Coast? And they thought he knew where bin laden was. Is that really a problem to you? My carbon footprint is bigger than yours...and you know what they say about big feet. These are the times that try mens souls... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginger_Warrior Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 When you are the ones claiming to defend people from terrorism... yes. Are you seriously trying to suggest this is not a blatant contradiction? | Favourite Game Music | Last.fm | HYT Friend Chat Rules | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenticular_J Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 Mmm, it seems our Department of Defense needs a new dictionary. Terrorism is, and always has been, a method to incite terror into a populace, for whatever reasons the terrorists have. Waterboarding is torture, not terrorism. catch it now so you can like it before it went so mainstream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackattack Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 ^^ I would define terrorism as a non governmental organization purposely targeting civilians. Ginger you are honestly comparing waterboarding a mass murderer with purposely killing thousands of innocent civilians? You really have a problem with CIA waterboarding him? Oh and Ginger you left a little bit off the end of you definition..."to intimidate governments or societies in the pursuit of goals that are generally political, religious, or ideological" My carbon footprint is bigger than yours...and you know what they say about big feet. These are the times that try mens souls... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenticular_J Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 It can be used by a government, although it appears that is not the case these days. And it is also true that civilians are not always targeted, but these days they are. catch it now so you can like it before it went so mainstream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackattack Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 ^^ Well I wouldn't call an attack against a military target terrorism. My carbon footprint is bigger than yours...and you know what they say about big feet. These are the times that try mens souls... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginger_Warrior Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 ^^ I would define terrorism as a non governmental organization purposely targeting civilians. The 9/11 attacks were on government-owned targets - the World Trade Centre and the Pentagon. Surely it would have been more productive to blow up the train lines or the airports themselves, as the IRA did. That would have brought tens of thousands of civilians into disturbance. You don't have to kill to terrorise. Logic simply does not follow your definition. Ginger you are honestly comparing waterboarding a mass murderer with purposely killing thousands of innocent civilians? You really have a problem with CIA waterboarding him? I don't believe they are exactly the same, no. But they share inherent similarities. Such as, the removal of freedom, choice and liberty. How can you proclaim to be the Leader of the Free World, as though it were some medieval religious crusade, while having these methods of torture, and not even giving some of your prisoners the right to a fair trial? It is ridiculous. | Favourite Game Music | Last.fm | HYT Friend Chat Rules | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenticular_J Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 How can you proclaim to be the Leader of the Free World, as though it were some medieval religious crusade, while having these methods of torture, and not even giving some of your prisoners the right to a fair trial? It is ridiculous. It would be ridiculous, if it were true. San Ki-Moon is the Secretary of the United Nations, which is probably the closest to the Leader. You seem to have a notion in your head that every American rushes around yelling that we're the leaders of the world. catch it now so you can like it before it went so mainstream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginger_Warrior Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 How can you proclaim to be the Leader of the Free World, as though it were some medieval religious crusade, while having these methods of torture, and not even giving some of your prisoners the right to a fair trial? It is ridiculous. It would be ridiculous, if it were true. San Ki-Moon is the Secretary of the United Nations, which is probably the closest to the Leader. You seem to have a notion in your head that every American rushes around yelling that we're the leaders of the world. The UN has no power. Everyone knows that. The US Government has proclaimed itself to that position though. I'm well aware your average everyday American will have no influence over its decisions. | Favourite Game Music | Last.fm | HYT Friend Chat Rules | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackattack Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 ^ how can we not be? Who else does anything? Who gives more aid than the 65 billion the U.S. is giving? When the tsunami hit who was there with aid? When the cyclone hit myanmar who almost forced aid on them? What other country gives as much aid as we do? Just because the word terror is in it doesn't mean anything that causes terror is terrorism. I guess Stephen King is a terrorist then. At least I'm not taking the DOD's definition out of context. Prisoners get a fair trial. They all get lawyers. The ones they don't have enough evidence to convict are released. Thats why 400 of 500 prisoners at gitmo have been released. Even though 1 in 8 goes has been confirmed to go back to terrorism. The ones they still have are either too dangerous to release of they are still building the case against them. One question to you. Do you approve of the use of waterboarding on khalid sheikh mohammed? If your the interrogator. He has a document that would lead you to believe where osama bin laden is. It's pretty soon after 9/11 and another attack could be coming and you've got one of the top al qaeda leaders. Would you waterboard him? Or just give him cookies and hope he tells you how they were going to bring down the largest building on the Left Coast? My carbon footprint is bigger than yours...and you know what they say about big feet. These are the times that try mens souls... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginger_Warrior Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 The way to combat terrorism is through intelligence, not torturing Islamists to the point they become martyrs for the cause. And for the matter, the tsunami has nothing to do with freedom or liberty, and practically every developed nation in the world gave aid. I would expect the world's biggest economic superpower to provide most aid. | Favourite Game Music | Last.fm | HYT Friend Chat Rules | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackattack Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 ^^ How has KSM become a martyr for the cause? My carbon footprint is bigger than yours...and you know what they say about big feet. These are the times that try mens souls... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginger_Warrior Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 ^^ How has KSM become a martyr for the cause? Well it's not hard to see how. Young Muslims see this man being tortured for what he believes in - beliefs they themselves can relate to. It encourages them to join terrorist organisations. This is the thing. You torture a man, you have no idea how many people will follow his cause in inspiration of his devotion. | Favourite Game Music | Last.fm | HYT Friend Chat Rules | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephiroth_king Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 The way to combat terrorism is through intelligence, not torturing Islamists to the point they become martyrs for the cause. I'm sorry, but...Combating Terrorism through intelligence? In the Middle East? We could all wish. We can only deal with terrorism with war because it's the only thing that drives Middle Eastern extremists. There is no intelligence for them. Only Virgins and their Heaven...And I feel bad for them, and the innocent over there. But there is no stopping their beliefs...The other unfortunate truth is that people are tortured here AND over there by the same people that we are torturing...Again, extremists. Both captured Americans and their own people. :| (Or at least it was like that until we killed that bastard Saddam) I thought it right to go over to Iraq to recapture Bin Laden, and when we killed Saddam that was good. However, killing him seems suffeciant. Unfortunately, it's still "Unstable" and kinda is because of some of the things going on there... This is the thing. You torture a man, you have no idea how many people will follow his cause in inspiration of his devotion. True, but we have to take that risk. And if those people follow him in his footsteps, their an enemy. They have no fear because they want their heaven. Again, I feel bad--but we have to eliminate those who pose a threat. Hoping to get a new Signature (with matching avatar) soon. :D In the meantime...Steam username: )I'll rewrite it later (add me if you want) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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