Iraq war, your opinions?

[Ginger_Warrior]

And don't give me that garbage about the British. They are the one who abandoned Basra to the Mahdi army.

 

You mean we retreated to a supervising role? Not quite the same as abandoning.

 

 

 

The Iraqi Army has to stand up on its own if we're to withdraw at any point. And you know, we're pretty trained when it comes to training armies in foreign territories. We only built the biggest Empire in human history by doing exactly that.

 

 

 

Deaths in the British Army are also proportionately lower than the American loses, probably due to an emphasis on cooperation with those who do want to abide by law and rebuild infrastructure, providing aid to those whose lives we have upturned through our actions, as opposed to the American attitude which appears to be "we'll storm into a city and shoot dead anyone who opposes us" which inevitably creates more hostiles, not less.

 

 

 

Kofi Annan's stance on terrorism is spot on. Yes, be vigilant, but the way to stop terrorism is to deprive them of the sanctuaries they thrive in. This involves improving the quality of life and opportunities of those who are likely to turn to extremist groups for salvation; not blowing their cities up with a vague promise of 'democracy' and allowing your home country's media to effectively allow an intolerance towards Muslims.

[Range_This11]

^^ john kerry.

 

 

 

And President Bush has done a pretty good job getting the north koreans to back down. They just recently destroyed that water cooling tower. We are lucky we left troops there or the whole peninsula would be north korea.

 

The US troops staying in Korea only antagonized the North Koreans, they didn't prevent anything from happening. I say if we wouldn't have left troops there then they would have no right to be angry with us. When there isn't occupation, countries have no reason to hate another. And by the way, the United Nations made North Korea back down, not President Bush.

[l0l0lpur32]

I wouldn't considered it justified considering the IRA were fighting in area that was taken from the native Irish 300-400 years ago but officially in 1922. The IRA were a guerrilla warfare freedom fighting (or terrorist group, depending on your views) force fighting against a foreign army who occupied lands which were rightfully Irish. At it's height in the 70's the IRA had 7000 active members, could you justify invading a country to try and stop 7000 poorly armed volunteer freedom fighters (or terrorists depending on your views), I certainly couldn't, not invading it on the level America invaded Iraq anyway. Putting in the small amount of troops that Britain did I think was clever, but they weren't very efficient in combating the IRA.

 

 

 

And I don't see how your situation relates to Chechnya at all considering Russian troops go into Chechen towns, murdering men, raping women, torturing all and extorting money out of anyone they see. The British army didn't do the latter 3 anyway.

 

I was comparing the secessionist rebel groups in Chechenya to the IRA.

[jackattack]

And don't give me that garbage about the British. They are the one who abandoned Basra to the Mahdi army.

 

You mean we retreated to a supervising role? Not quite the same as abandoning.

 

 

 

The Iraqi Army has to stand up on its own if we're to withdraw at any point. And you know, we're pretty trained when it comes to training armies in foreign territories. We only built the biggest Empire in human history by doing exactly that.

 

 

 

Deaths in the British Army are also proportionately lower than the American loses, probably due to an emphasis on cooperation with those who do want to abide by law and rebuild infrastructure, providing aid to those whose lives we have upturned through our actions, as opposed to the American attitude which appears to be "we'll storm into a city and shoot dead anyone who opposes us" which inevitably creates more hostiles, not less.

 

 

 

Kofi Annan's stance on terrorism is spot on. Yes, be vigilant, but the way to stop terrorism is to deprive them of the sanctuaries they thrive in. This involves improving the quality of life and opportunities of those who are likely to turn to extremist groups for salvation; not blowing their cities up with a vague promise of 'democracy' and allowing your home country's media to effectively allow an intolerance towards Muslims.

 

 

 

 

 

No the british left Basra to al sadr before the ISF were prepared to take it. Hell of a job you guys did training the ISf there. I guess that's why 1000 ISF deserted at the first sign of a battle. British deaths are lower because The U.S. Has taken all the tough areas. And how can you say our media allows intolerance towards muslims? It's totally the opposite. At any criticism of a muslim or islam they cry islamophobia. They won't use any term that links islam with terrorism anymore.

[Ginger_Warrior]

Well, surely if we're doing such a terrible job, you won't mind us withdrawing then. ;)

 

 

 

No the british left Basra to al sadr before the ISF were prepared to take it. Hell of a job you guys did training the ISf there.

 

We've not even left Basra. We're stationed in its airport and we can be deployed as soon as the Iraqi Army asks for assistance.

 

 

 

I guess that's why 1000 ISF deserted at the first sign of a battle

 

Soldiers desert armies. Give me a time in history when that hasn't been the case?

 

 

 

There's a saying: "A soldier's finest hour is his first". Once they see the reality of combat, they wake up and smell the roses. How exactly are we supposed to stop that? Fire bullets at them at the registration office and see if they still want to join?

 

 

 

And how can you say our media allows intolerance towards muslims? It's totally the opposite. At any criticism of a muslim or islam they cry islamophobia. They won't use any term that links islam with terrorism anymore.

 

That's utter rubbish. We have reports of Islamist terror groups all the time. The front page of the BBC website today had a story about the overturning of a conviction against the Islamist terrorists who allegedly conducted the Madrid train bombings. It could have been the statistics about crime in this country which were published today. Could have been about Robert Murat. But no, absolutely nothing to do with us at all, but it was still on there.

 

 

 

Whenever a Muslim is arrested, it's "A Muslim man has been arrested for burglary". Right, so he burgled because he was a Muslim? I doubt it. On the other hand, you never hear, "An atheist man has been arrested...". There is still a quite blatant stereotype, even if people don't realise they have it.

 

 

 

You're more likely to get run over by a car, but all we ever hear about is terrorism.

 

 

 

I for one only call someone an Islamophobe when they make wholly unjustified remarks about Muslims. Remarks such as "They don't really come here to work", or "They just sponge off the state", or "They're all ticking timebombs".

 

 

 

I've no problems with people connecting terrorism to Islamic Fundamentalism.

[l0l0lpur32]

 

That's utter rubbish. We have reports of Islamist terror groups all the time. The front page of the BBC website today had a story about the overturning of a conviction against the Islamist terrorists who allegedly conducted the Madrid train bombings. It could have been the statistics about crime in this country which were published today. Could have been about Robert Murat. But no, absolutely nothing to do with us at all, but it was still on there.

 

 

 

Whenever a Muslim is arrested, it's "A Muslim man has been arrested for burglary". Right, so he burgled because he was a Muslim? I doubt it. On the other hand, you never hear, "An atheist man has been arrested...". There is still a quite blatant stereotype, even if people don't realise they have it.

 

 

 

You're more likely to get run over by a car, but all we ever hear about is terrorism.

 

 

 

I for one only call someone an Islamophobe when they make wholly unjustified remarks about Muslims. Remarks such as "They don't really come here to work", or "They just sponge off the state", or "They're all ticking timebombs".

 

 

 

I've no problems with people connecting terrorism to Islamic Fundamentalism.

 

I disagree with the "Whenever a Muslim is arrested" thing, but yes the more fear which is spread via the media, the more totalitarian measures (42 days detention without charge, DNA database etc) people will accept.

[jackattack]

 

And how can you say our media allows intolerance towards muslims? It's totally the opposite. At any criticism of a muslim or islam they cry islamophobia. They won't use any term that links islam with terrorism anymore.

 

That's utter rubbish. We have reports of Islamist terror groups all the time. The front page of the BBC website today had a story about the overturning of a conviction against the Islamist terrorists who allegedly conducted the Madrid train bombings. It could have been the statistics about crime in this country which were published today. Could have been about Robert Murat. But no, absolutely nothing to do with us at all, but it was still on there.

 

 

 

Whenever a Muslim is arrested, it's "A Muslim man has been arrested for burglary". Right, so he burgled because he was a Muslim? I doubt it. On the other hand, you never hear, "An atheist man has been arrested...". There is still a quite blatant stereotype, even if people don't realise they have it.

 

 

 

You're more likely to get run over by a car, but all we ever hear about is terrorism.

 

 

 

I for one only call someone an Islamophobe when they make wholly unjustified remarks about Muslims. Remarks such as "They don't really come here to work", or "They just sponge off the state", or "They're all ticking timebombs".

 

 

 

I've no problems with people connecting terrorism to Islamic Fundamentalism.

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe in europe. In the U.S. we are overrun by political correctness.

[dragoonson]

 

And how can you say our media allows intolerance towards muslims? It's totally the opposite. At any criticism of a muslim or islam they cry islamophobia. They won't use any term that links islam with terrorism anymore.

 

That's utter rubbish. We have reports of Islamist terror groups all the time. The front page of the BBC website today had a story about the overturning of a conviction against the Islamist terrorists who allegedly conducted the Madrid train bombings. It could have been the statistics about crime in this country which were published today. Could have been about Robert Murat. But no, absolutely nothing to do with us at all, but it was still on there.

 

 

 

Whenever a Muslim is arrested, it's "A Muslim man has been arrested for burglary". Right, so he burgled because he was a Muslim? I doubt it. On the other hand, you never hear, "An atheist man has been arrested...". There is still a quite blatant stereotype, even if people don't realise they have it.

 

 

 

You're more likely to get run over by a car, but all we ever hear about is terrorism.

 

 

 

I for one only call someone an Islamophobe when they make wholly unjustified remarks about Muslims. Remarks such as "They don't really come here to work", or "They just sponge off the state", or "They're all ticking timebombs".

 

 

 

I've no problems with people connecting terrorism to Islamic Fundamentalism.

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe in europe. In the U.S. we are overrun by political correctness.

 

 

 

Right,so I guess people assasinate presidents for sport.

[jackattack]

What?

[RichieMcD]

 

And how can you say our media allows intolerance towards muslims? It's totally the opposite. At any criticism of a muslim or islam they cry islamophobia. They won't use any term that links islam with terrorism anymore.

 

That's utter rubbish. We have reports of Islamist terror groups all the time. The front page of the BBC website today had a story about the overturning of a conviction against the Islamist terrorists who allegedly conducted the Madrid train bombings. It could have been the statistics about crime in this country which were published today. Could have been about Robert Murat. But no, absolutely nothing to do with us at all, but it was still on there.

 

 

 

Whenever a Muslim is arrested, it's "A Muslim man has been arrested for burglary". Right, so he burgled because he was a Muslim? I doubt it. On the other hand, you never hear, "An atheist man has been arrested...". There is still a quite blatant stereotype, even if people don't realise they have it.

 

 

 

You're more likely to get run over by a car, but all we ever hear about is terrorism.

 

 

 

I for one only call someone an Islamophobe when they make wholly unjustified remarks about Muslims. Remarks such as "They don't really come here to work", or "They just sponge off the state", or "They're all ticking timebombs".

 

 

 

I've no problems with people connecting terrorism to Islamic Fundamentalism.

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe in europe. In the U.S. we are overrun by political correctness.

 

 

 

political correctness you say? Want to explain then how Camp Delta and Camp X-Ray are politically correct? (Guantanamo bay if you're unaware of their real name)

[Lenticular_J]

He's not talking about that. He's talking about how our country goes in an uproar if anything about race is connected to anything bad. Even if its true, anything even slightly stereotypical is oh-so-terrible.

[baalboy5]

He's not talking about that. He's talking about how our country goes in an uproar if anything about race is connected to anything bad. Even if its true, anything even slightly stereotypical is oh-so-terrible.

 

Like Obama for example? fox news made a uproar because he went to a Muslim school, and with their information, ect.. he smokes, he has bad connections with that priest, that the muslim school part is also bad.

[Tom_Servo]

He's not talking about that. He's talking about how our country goes in an uproar if anything about race is connected to anything bad. Even if its true, anything even slightly stereotypical is oh-so-terrible.

 

Like Obama for example? fox news made a uproar because he went to a Muslim school, and with their information, ect.. he smokes, he has bad connections with that priest, that the muslim school part is also bad.

 

 

 

Well, the problem there is Fox News. They are historically known for blowing things out of proportion and twisting things around to make it seem like somebody said/did something they didn't.

[Lenticular_J]

Are you kidding? Every news company is biased to the point of me ... Being sad. Crap, can't form a good thing for me to do.

[jackattack]

 

political correctness you say? Want to explain then how Camp Delta and Camp X-Ray are politically correct? (Guantanamo bay if you're unaware of their real name)

 

 

 

Thats not what political correctness means if your unaware of the definition. What exactly is wrong with Guantanamo bay?

[RichieMcD]

 

political correctness you say? Want to explain then how Camp Delta and Camp X-Ray are politically correct? (Guantanamo bay if you're unaware of their real name)

 

 

 

Thats not what political correctness means if your unaware of the definition. What exactly is wrong with Guantanamo bay?

 

 

 

Sorry confused political correctness with a different word. Anyway how can you justify imprisoning a person without a fair trial, yet even a trial in most cases in a terribly small cell, where the walls have a certain pattern on them known to cause acute headaches, any political reading material is not allowed. Letters to families often aren't even sent, letters from families often arrive months late and your only form of exercise is 30 minutes in the exercise chamber each day while arrogant soldiers shout racist and sectarian slurs at you. Just because it's the "war on terror" doesn't make them any less of a prisoner than an American prisoner, all prisoners of Guantanamo bay deserve a fair trial, none of them receive these, instead they get a "military tribunal", quite obvious what kind of verdict will come from them :roll:

 

 

 

Read "Enemy combatant" by Mozzam Begg, he was falsely imprisoned there and released. It's a very good read if you want to know how they're actually treated there.

[jackattack]

^^ Falsely imprisoned? If thats the guy I'm thinking of he has admitted giving money to terrorists. So I'm not sure I'd believe him. There is a huge difference between counter-terrorism work and police work. It's stopping the next attack vs. punishing a crime already committed. They can't give terrorists the same rights as regular criminals. Of the 500 or so people that were ever held there around 400 have been released. Of those 50 have been confirmed to have gone back to terrorism by the Pentagon.

 

 

 

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... a-pics.htm

 

 

 

Does that look all that bad to you? Every room has an arrow pointing to Mecca. When that sheriff in Arizona is keeping prisoners in tents in the desert I don't feel all to bad for terrorists.

[RichieMcD]

 

 

 

Does that look all that bad to you? Every room has an arrow pointing to Mecca. When that sheriff in Arizona is keeping prisoners in tents in the desert I don't feel all to bad for terrorists.

 

 

 

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Yes it does look quite bad. Re-examine the pictures, cells are very narrow and the metal wiring they are made out of causes acute headaches if you were to stare at it, considering your whole cell is made of this it's close to impossible not to look at it.

 

 

 

Also that Sheriff in Arizona offers a choice to inmates, they can have a reduced sentence and live "tent city" as he calls it or stand their normal sentence but have a indoor cell.

[jackattack]

^^Oh I feel terrible. Narrow cells? How barbaric. The prisoners are forced to look at the cell walls? I bet those evil guards cut their eyelids off. I feel so bad for those poor poor terrorists. Those are really inhuman living conditions.

[dragoonson]

^^Oh I feel terrible. Narrow cells? How barbaric. The prisoners are forced to look at the cell walls? I bet those evil guards cut their eyelids off. I feel so bad for those poor poor terrorists. Those are really inhuman living conditions.

 

 

 

So lets sit in prison for life without reason sleeping.Are you frikking Rip Van Winkle?

[jackattack]

Ya your right. They have no reason at all for being there.

[dragoonson]

Ya your right. They have no reason at all for being there.

 

 

 

Oh crap.You must be the God of Responses.There is absolutely no way for me to counter that :roll:

[Lenticular_J]

Very few of the people in Guantanamo Bay don't deserve to be there. And even if they don't, they still deserve to be in jail. At least we don't pull a Manchuria on them.

[Ginger_Warrior]

Ya your right. They have no reason at all for being there.

 

Staggering. You despise this supposedly new-found ideology of 'terrorism', and here you are giving apathetic reactions to methods of prison torture which instill terror into people who have never even had a fair trial.

 

 

 

How on Earth can you lecture us about the dangers of terrorism when you cannot even sort your own country out? Absolutely unbelievable hypocrisy.

[RichieMcD]

Ya your right. They have no reason at all for being there.

 

 

 

Ok, so you justify people being put into basically a prison camp without trial just because the CIA, FBI or army says they're terrorists. You're country is full of contradictions, you love your "freedom" yet you don't mind imprisoning people without a fair trial, yet alone even a trial and you don't mind imposing democracy and capitalism on Iraq. That sure is a love for freedom right there :roll: