Safety Bracelets!

[the49ronin]

sure it may be fine on a normal adult... but what about those who have medical conditions of a weak heart, have had heart attacks before, or even have pace makers or other electronics in their body... i would love to know what happens when an electric current zaps them, let alone if they have any external electronics on them

 

 

 

i like the idea of all in one ticket, boarding pass etc, just keep out the immobilizer 'cause it just takes one malfunction (and please don't argue "They'll never malfuction" since it is technology and there will be always a chance for it going haywire) and then all hell would break loose

 

 

 

@adam, while the right to revolt and start over with a new government is still there... the likelihood of it occurring at all and much less it succeeding is very minute

[Giordano]

I was using millions of lives as an example of when to use it and you are using Propaganda by trying to convince me to think that the Government is Useless and is trying to get rid of our Freedom. You want an Example of how our contry lost alot of civilians lives? 9/11. Sure Wiretapping is bad but It has also saved lives, sure an individual wire tap might save 1 or 2 lives but those lives total up and that 1 Person might be a person of Top Priority who might influenece or save alot of lives. Since your saying I'm falling for the "Governments Propaganda" then give me one example of this. Afterall we still have the right to Revolt.

 

Example? You're using it right now: 9/11. Using it as "omg it can't happen again!" is letting the government do whatever they please. Using a single event shouldn't allow the government to change everything their forefathers fought for. If terrorists were attacknig weekly or monthly, then I might think differently. But once seven years ago?

 

 

 

Plus once they got us undercontrol, who knows what they can do? For all we know, the great democratic government can easily switch to a dictatorship. Then we'll be shocked and revolt- but wait, they know where everyone is and can kill us instantly. Its not our privacy I'm concerned about, its what the government can do afterwards. Have you noticed all Congressmen and Senators, etc are all rich? They're seperate from the common folk and thus can't be too trusted into protecting us. All they want is to keep their money.

[Sbrideau]

All they want is to keep their money.

 

 

 

+1 on that.

 

 

 

Using 9/11 is now out of date, all they had to change for that not to happen again, they did it in the first year, as of having stricker(sp?) rules in the airports and planes. What they are doing now is playing with the crowd's fears.

[ember3579]

And to make it all that much more interesting, what if the person controlling who gets shocked decides one day to be a jerk, or is working for a terrorist organization themselves? They can fry everyone in range that has these on, and chances are there isn't ANYTHING that anyone outside of that room can do about it. That's the first reason why this should NEVER be an option. It CREATES vulnerabilities, rather than protects them.

[Lenin64]

First off, I'd like to say that I fail to see what rights this violates. You're simply wearing a bracelet designed to keep unruly people in check. That said, I'm against it. Nothing has happened since 9/11 that would require this, and it's simply a paranoid waste of money. The current security measures are fine, they've been fine, and no further measures are truly needed. However, I'm also not opposed to wearing it if it is implemented, provided they call it something other than "safety bracelet", which sounds like something you'd have a 3 year-old wear in a crowded mall.

[Skill_Caster]

That's a bit ridiculous. In theory, it seems convenient, but do you honestly want to go walking around in an airport wearing a dog collar? What if they actually go through with this idea, and decide we need to wear them all the time? And to be honest, it's a bit flawed. Tazers, while they can malfunction, they are firearms and can only harm someone that is being in contact with it or being aimed at. These things could malfunction and shock the crap out of a bunch of innocent passengers. For all we know, a hi-jaker could get through to the control room, or remote, or whatever controls this, and take control of all of us with the 'safety' bracelets.

[Wizz]

That's a bit ridiculous. In theory, it seems convenient, but do you honestly want to go walking around in an airport wearing a dog collar? What if they actually go through with this idea, and decide we need to wear them all the time? And to be honest, it's a bit flawed. Tazers, while they can malfunction, they are firearms and can only harm someone that is being in contact with it or being aimed at. These things could malfunction and shock the crap out of a bunch of innocent passengers. For all we know, a hi-jaker could get through to the control room, or remote, or whatever controls this, and take control of all of us with the 'safety' bracelets.

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure they have a plan for this, you really think they won't think this through?

 

 

 

I was using millions of lives as an example of when to use it and you are using Propaganda by trying to convince me to think that the Government is Useless and is trying to get rid of our Freedom. You want an Example of how our contry lost alot of civilians lives? 9/11. Sure Wiretapping is bad but It has also saved lives, sure an individual wire tap might save 1 or 2 lives but those lives total up and that 1 Person might be a person of Top Priority who might influenece or save alot of lives. Since your saying I'm falling for the "Governments Propaganda" then give me one example of this. Afterall we still have the right to Revolt.

 

Alright, can I have a wiretap on your house? Afterall, if you have nothing to hide then why can I not have a wiretap ? Never know when you are going to blow up my house.

 

 

 

Any Evidence that I'm a terrorist? If you do, then feel free to tap.

[jackattack]

First off, I'd like to say that I fail to see what rights this violates. You're simply wearing a bracelet designed to keep unruly people in check. That said, I'm against it. Nothing has happened since 9/11 that would require this, and it's simply a paranoid waste of money. The current security measures are fine, they've been fine, and no further measures are truly needed. However, I'm also not opposed to wearing it if it is implemented, provided they call it something other than "safety bracelet", which sounds like something you'd have a 3 year-old wear in a crowded mall.

 

 

 

The 9/11 was seven years ago mentality isn't to good. We are still in the same position as September 12. That said this isn't something I would have thought was a good idea even then. Maybe a few hundred more air marshals or guns in the cockpit.

[Range_This11]

 

The 9/11 was seven years ago mentality isn't to good. We are still in the same position as September 12. That said this isn't something I would have thought was a good idea even then. Maybe a few hundred more air marshals or guns in the cockpit.

 

In all likelihood, the next terrorist attack on America would not be in the form of hi-jacking a plane. They achieved what they wanted to achieve. They got us over there to fight them on their sand. Extra security measures and this safety bracelet bs are just overkill.

[Wizz]

But it can't hurt to be too careful...

[brunokiller]

So what if I ripped my chair apart, got some rubber or any other isolating material off it, then stuffed the space between my arm and the bracelet?

 

 

 

gf shockers.

[Adam007]

 

Any Evidence that I'm a terrorist? If you do, then feel free to tap.

 

They don't need evidence... Where do you draw the line with what you don't mind the government doing? What happens when it finally effects you? It might start by slowly inconveniencing you, but what's going to stop government from continuing to make moves like this? A lot of these replies may seem over the top in principal to you, but to see where a lot of us are coming from, please give 1984 a read. It's really worth it, and it might just change the way you think about things.

 

 

 

There really has to be a line on this though. Since 9-11, we've had so many freedoms taken away.

 

2003: Patriot Act. Government is now allowed to search our homes without warrants and have access to information such as library checkouts.

 

2006: Military Commissions Act. Habeus corpus is suspended for the first time since the civil war. Government can now detain you from your house.

 

2007: NSA Warrantless Wiretapping. Telecommunication corporations gave the government phone records and government can now legally monitor phone calls.

 

2008: FISA Amendments Act. Signed into law 3 days ago. Granted immunity to telecommunication companies from lawsuits over past actions. Increased allotted time of wireless surveillance from 48 hours to 1 week without a warrant.

 

 

 

Where does it stop?

[Range_This11]

 

They don't need evidence... Where do you draw the line with what you don't mind the government doing? What happens when it finally effects you? It might start by slowly inconveniencing you, but what's going to stop government from continuing to make moves like this? A lot of these replies may seem over the top in principal to you, but to see where a lot of us are coming from, please give 1984 a read. It's really worth it, and it might just change the way you think about things.

 

 

 

There really has to be a line on this though. Since 9-11, we've had so many freedoms taken away.

 

2003: Patriot Act. Government is now allowed to search our homes without warrants and have access to information such as library checkouts.

 

2006: Military Commissions Act. Habeus corpus is suspended for the first time since the civil war. Government can now detain you from your house.

 

2007: NSA Warrantless Wiretapping. Telecommunication corporations gave the government phone records and government can now legally monitor phone calls.

 

2008: FISA Amendments Act. Signed into law 3 days ago. Granted immunity to telecommunication companies from lawsuits over past actions. Increased allotted time of wireless surveillance from 48 hours to 1 week without a warrant.

 

 

 

Where does it stop?

 

Maybe you're not old enough to understand all of this yet, wizzkid, but those 4 things right there scare the hell out of me. Like Bill Hicks always liked to say, "Go back to sleep America, your government is in control." It's a shame he isn't alive today to give a few lines about the situations now.

[Lenticular_J]

Hell with that. I'll take a boat. Previous ones weren't too bad, considering they were handled well without rampant abuse, but this is the beginning of too far. I need to read 1984, quite badly.

 

 

 

EDIT: Yeah, I agree with Lenin on past actions. But if it keeps leading farther and farther...Ehh.

[Lenin64]

2003: Patriot Act. Government is now allowed to search our homes without warrants and have access to information such as library checkouts. Why do you care if they know what books you check out? Unless you check out something about creating explosive devices or the like it's really not a problem. The searches seem fine, too, for the most part, unless it causes property damage or a high-stress environment or something.

 

2006: Military Commissions Act. Habeus corpus is suspended for the first time since the civil war. Government can now detain you from your house. This is the only one I might have a problem with, because if you're illegally detained, how can any legal proceedings be legal? And if a habeas corpus is needed, they just might have the wrong guy.

 

2007: NSA Warrantless Wiretapping. Telecommunication corporations gave the government phone records and government can now legally monitor phone calls. Privacy or not, I still don't see why this is a big deal unless you're hiding something. Can you tell if you're being wiretapped? If you can, and the wiretapping somehow drastically interferes with the conversation, then this is a little iffy. If not, no problem. It's not like some random gov't official knowing your secrets or something will blackmail you.

 

2008: FISA Amendments Act. Signed into law 3 days ago. Granted immunity to telecommunication companies from lawsuits over past actions. Increased allotted time of wireless surveillance from 48 hours to 1 week without a warrant. I don't really get the "past actions" part, but if they were watching you before, if it's discreet, why can't they continue?

[Adam007]

I'm not going to respond point by point to each of those, because to me, it's really one matter of principal. This country was founded on individual freedom. In the extremely unlikely event that our country becomes a big-brother 1984 state, as an example, our founders wrote the constitution so we can bring freedom back to the people. Regardless of whether or not I'm an innocent civilian, there are limits to what I think the government should know about me. I'm not personally effected by wiretappings or any of what I listed, but I know it's too far. I know it's not the right direction for this country.

[Lenin64]

I'm not going to respond point by point to each of those, because to me, it's really one matter of principal. This country was founded on individual freedom. In the extremely unlikely event that our country becomes a big-brother 1984 state, as an example, our founders wrote the constitution so we can bring freedom back to the people. Regardless of whether or not I'm an innocent civilian, there are limits to what I think the government should know about me. I'm not personally effected by wiretappings or any of what I listed, but I know it's too far. I know it's not the right direction for this country.

 

I guess I see where you're coming from, especially the bolded part; had I lived in the 50's there's definitely a few things I wouldn't want known.

[Wizz]

 

They don't need evidence... Where do you draw the line with what you don't mind the government doing? What happens when it finally effects you? It might start by slowly inconveniencing you, but what's going to stop government from continuing to make moves like this? A lot of these replies may seem over the top in principal to you, but to see where a lot of us are coming from, please give 1984 a read. It's really worth it, and it might just change the way you think about things.

 

 

 

There really has to be a line on this though. Since 9-11, we've had so many freedoms taken away.

 

2003: Patriot Act. Government is now allowed to search our homes without warrants and have access to information such as library checkouts.

 

2006: Military Commissions Act. Habeus corpus is suspended for the first time since the civil war. Government can now detain you from your house.

 

2007: NSA Warrantless Wiretapping. Telecommunication corporations gave the government phone records and government can now legally monitor phone calls.

 

2008: FISA Amendments Act. Signed into law 3 days ago. Granted immunity to telecommunication companies from lawsuits over past actions. Increased allotted time of wireless surveillance from 48 hours to 1 week without a warrant.

 

 

 

Where does it stop?

 

Maybe you're not old enough to understand all of this yet, wizzkid, but those 4 things right there scare the hell out of me. Like Bill Hicks always liked to say, "Go back to sleep America, your government is in control." It's a shame he isn't alive today to give a few lines about the situations now.

 

 

 

I am old enough to undestand this. I have read 1984 in my English class. If America does become like that of George Orwell's 1984 then I would say you were right. But I still say that these are just Safety Precautions, why would the Government go mad with power and do what they were preventing? Why would they monitor your privacy like rats in a scientific lab? Why are you scared of those Acts, Range? Are you afraid that the Government will betray you, after all we are just millions and out fo those millions it'd be you?

 

 

 

If they do start to go mad with power than we still have the right to revolt we are millions, no? After all, it's still Democracy and the people Depend on the Government, Just like the Government Depends on you. If this balance of Democracy were to be broken, then all Hell will be lose and what you feared will happen. War.

 

 

 

To think, this started with just a bracelet.........

[Adam007]

 

They don't need evidence... Where do you draw the line with what you don't mind the government doing? What happens when it finally effects you? It might start by slowly inconveniencing you, but what's going to stop government from continuing to make moves like this? A lot of these replies may seem over the top in principal to you, but to see where a lot of us are coming from, please give 1984 a read. It's really worth it, and it might just change the way you think about things.

 

 

 

There really has to be a line on this though. Since 9-11, we've had so many freedoms taken away.

 

2003: Patriot Act. Government is now allowed to search our homes without warrants and have access to information such as library checkouts.

 

2006: Military Commissions Act. Habeus corpus is suspended for the first time since the civil war. Government can now detain you from your house.

 

2007: NSA Warrantless Wiretapping. Telecommunication corporations gave the government phone records and government can now legally monitor phone calls.

 

2008: FISA Amendments Act. Signed into law 3 days ago. Granted immunity to telecommunication companies from lawsuits over past actions. Increased allotted time of wireless surveillance from 48 hours to 1 week without a warrant.

 

 

 

Where does it stop?

 

Maybe you're not old enough to understand all of this yet, wizzkid, but those 4 things right there scare the hell out of me. Like Bill Hicks always liked to say, "Go back to sleep America, your government is in control." It's a shame he isn't alive today to give a few lines about the situations now.

 

 

 

I am old enough to undestand this. I have read 1984 in my English class. If America does become like that of George Orwell's 1984 then I would say you were right. But I still say that these are just Safety Precautions, why would the Government go mad with power and do what they were preventing? Why would they monitor your privacy like rats in a scientific lab? Why are you scared of those Acts, Range? Are you afraid that the Government will betray you, after all we are just millions and out fo those millions it'd be you?

 

 

 

If they do start to go mad with power than we still have the right to revolt we are millions, no? After all, it's still Democracy and the people Depend on the Government, Just like the Government Depends on you. If this balance of Democracy were to be broken, then all Hell will be lose and what you feared will happen. War.

 

 

 

To think, this started with just a bracelet.........

 

Doesn't it seem like they already are going mad with power with what they're doing? We have a checks and balances system for a reason, but that's slowly fading because of partisan politics. When you have corrupt leaders, they'll obtain as much power as they can get the people to give to them. And it's not always about our country vs. other countries. They can use their power to get information about corporations or gain personal wealth. It's safe to assume some of GWB and his cronies are corrupt, without our nation's best interests in hand. My point is that the government is already gaining power it never was meant to have. And we shouldn't allow them to take it.

[jackattack]

How has President Bush used the PATRIOT act or the Protect America act to gain personal wealth?

 

 

 

 

Any Evidence that I'm a terrorist? If you do, then feel free to tap.

 

They don't need evidence... Where do you draw the line with what you don't mind the government doing? What happens when it finally effects you? It might start by slowly inconveniencing you, but what's going to stop government from continuing to make moves like this? A lot of these replies may seem over the top in principal to you, but to see where a lot of us are coming from, please give 1984 a read. It's really worth it, and it might just change the way you think about things.

 

 

 

There really has to be a line on this though. Since 9-11, we've had so many freedoms taken away.

 

2003: Patriot Act. Government is now allowed to search our homes without warrants and have access to information such as library checkouts.

 

2006: Military Commissions Act. Habeus corpus is suspended for the first time since the civil war. Government can now detain you from your house.

 

2007: NSA Warrantless Wiretapping. Telecommunication corporations gave the government phone records and government can now legally monitor phone calls.

 

2008: FISA Amendments Act. Signed into law 3 days ago. Granted immunity to telecommunication companies from lawsuits over past actions. Increased allotted time of wireless surveillance from 48 hours to 1 week without a warrant.

 

 

 

Where does it stop?

 

 

 

You are seriously bringing up the whole aclu library fiasco? The FBI did that once and it was to a guy who was actually a terrorist. And they weren't monitoring his checkouts or internet use just anonymous emails sent. The Habeas Corpus one is kind of necessary. Preventing an attack is a whole different ball game than police work. I don't think that they should do it to citizens but sometimes it's necessary. Sometimes they catch a terrorist and they don't have enough proof to convict them in court. They can't just let them go. Of the 400 or so people they have already released from Gitmo at least 50 have been confirmed to have gone back to terrorism so they can't just let them go if they don't have enough proof for a conviction like they do in U.S. courts. They are trying to prevent attacks not punish people for crimes already committed. And the NSA can only wiretap your phone if you call a suspected terrorist overseas.

[Giordano]

Maybe you're not old enough to understand all of this yet, wizzkid, but those 4 things right there scare the hell out of me. Like Bill Hicks always liked to say, "Go back to sleep America, your government is in control." It's a shame he isn't alive today to give a few lines about the situations now.

 

 

 

I am old enough to undestand this. I have read 1984 in my English class. If America does become like that of George Orwell's 1984 then I would say you were right. But I still say that these are just Safety Precautions, why would the Government go mad with power and do what they were preventing? Why would they monitor your privacy like rats in a scientific lab? Why are you scared of those Acts, Range? Are you afraid that the Government will betray you, after all we are just millions and out fo those millions it'd be you?

 

 

 

If they do start to go mad with power than we still have the right to revolt we are millions, no? After all, it's still Democracy and the people Depend on the Government, Just like the Government Depends on you. If this balance of Democracy were to be broken, then all Hell will be lose and what you feared will happen. War.

 

 

 

To think, this started with just a bracelet.........

A

 

The government would want to keep its power and money, first of all. Secondly, its not just one person will be betrayed, it'll be thousands, millions. Governments can't be trusted, especially when they're rich, old men with nothing much to lose execpt their money. And we can't revolt dufus, the government knows where every single citizen would be at. If they see a mass revolt heading up to the White House just activate the shock and send in the infrantry. Revolt taken down quickly. Lastly, this country is not a democracy. Can we choose what to do? No. We send some old rich men to talk together with other old rich men and without our concent, they can do whatever much they please. Seriously, what federal acts do we vote for? Other than the president, what else? Nothing; thats the job for the Congress. But, (~)500 members are more likely to agree with each other than 300,000,000. Those 500 also share a lot in common: rich and powerful, and want to stay that way.

[Wizz]

So you just asume that hey are old mean men with money who wish nothing but world domination? Is that what your trying to convince me?

[Range_This11]

I am old enough to undestand this. I have read 1984 in my English class. If America does become like that of George Orwell's 1984 then I would say you were right. But I still say that these are just Safety Precautions, why would the Government go mad with power and do what they were preventing? Why would they monitor your privacy like rats in a scientific lab? Why are you scared of those Acts, Range? Are you afraid that the Government will betray you, after all we are just millions and out fo those millions it'd be you?

 

 

 

If they do start to go mad with power than we still have the right to revolt we are millions, no? After all, it's still Democracy and the people Depend on the Government, Just like the Government Depends on you. If this balance of Democracy were to be broken, then all Hell will be lose and what you feared will happen. War.

 

 

 

To think, this started with just a bracelet.........

 

I don't care if it is me, or if it is my neighbor, or if it is some guy in Wyoming. The government has no right to monitor any citizen's home without warrant. End of story. I don't care if they're a suspected terrorist or not. The government has no right being in a place they shouldn't be, because once they search those homes, they can search any home and, eventually, people will just be "okay" with it. One thing leads to another and you have cameras on the corners and in your homes. Governments, historically, that have instituted public surveillance have been dictatorships and have had war monger leaders. Oh wait, gosh that sounds SO familiar. I'm not afraid of my government, I'm very angry that they would go against so many moral and constitutional standards that have been set in place during the development of this nation. People should not be afraid of their government; governments should be afraid of their people. Take that advice.

[Range_This11]

So you just asume that hey are old mean men with money who wish nothing but world domination? Is that what your trying to convince me?

 

Yes, that IS what is happening and what has been happening for THOUSANDS OF YEARS. Have you not studied history at all?

[jackattack]

I don't care if it is me, or if it is my neighbor, or if it is some guy in Wyoming. The government has no right to monitor any citizen's home without warrant. End of story. I don't care if they're a suspected terrorist or not. The government has no right being in a place they shouldn't be, because once they search those homes, they can search any home and, eventually, people will just be "okay" with it. One thing leads to another and you have cameras on the corners and in your homes. Governments, historically, that have instituted public surveillance have been dictatorships and have had war monger leaders. Oh wait, gosh that sounds SO familiar. I'm not afraid of my government, I'm very angry that they would go against so many moral and constitutional standards that have been set in place during the development of this nation. People should not be afraid of their government; governments should be afraid of their people. Take that advice.

 

 

 

 

 

They still need warrants to search a house and can only wiretap calls overseas to a suspected member of Al Qaida.