The Offical TIF American Elections thread

[Saru Inc]

No, gw, thats not what I said at all, re-read.

[Ginger_Warrior]

No, gw, thats not what I said at all, re-read.

 

I'm referring to the people who, as you quite rightly pointed out, believe life beings at conception. It seems a logical fallacy to believe that the same God who teaches every life is sacred would destroy those lives by making women have a miscarriage.

 

 

 

The second point I made was this. Many pro-life supporters are pro-life because of religious reasons, because every life is sacred. It seems hypocritical to me that they happily label me a "baby killer" when their own God does not seem obliged to the same principle that all life is sacred.

 

 

 

I realise it's a very simple view, but from what I'm seeing, it comes down to this. It's fine when God does it, even to someone who wants to have a child, but if someone doesn't want a child, then it's not OK that we do it because God says so. That seems like a ridiculously flawed statement.

[Saru Inc]

Oh ok, sorry GW, my mistake.

 

 

 

Well, I'm not quite sure why God does somethings, such as diseases, or cerebral palsy to innocent people. I really have no clue, I'm not sure anyone does. Some may, not sure.

 

 

 

I guess the answer is, God doesn't MAKE the woman have a miscarriage, it happens accidentally. And it's an unwanted loss of life. But an abortion is deliberate.

[warri0r45]

Oh ok, sorry GW, my mistake.

 

 

 

Well, I'm not quite sure why God does somethings, such as diseases, or cerebral palsy to innocent people. I really have no clue, I'm not sure anyone does. Some may, not sure.

 

 

 

I guess the answer is, God doesn't MAKE the woman have a miscarriage, it happens accidentally. And it's an unwanted loss of life. But an abortion is deliberate.

 

 

 

God set up nature, so according to your beliefs he would have known the outcome, i.e. miscarriages for a significant proportion of pregnancies. You didn't really answer his criticism at all as far as I'm concerned.

 

 

 

What right do pro-lifers have to call people "baby killers" or "murderers" if god is the biggest abortionist (albeit indirectly) of them all?

 

 

 

And just to add to another point that's been brought up, the debate about the semantics of human life isn't the issue for many pro-choice people who have been exposed to the issue and thought about it. The considerations for them are, as GW said, at what point the fetus feels pain, whether the rights of the mother should outweigh the rights of the fetus given the developmental stage, and, whether it's fair to bring the child up should their life be one of poverty and struggle.

[dangeresque]

I'm sort of on the fence with abortion, both sides have pretty good points imo, if I was ever president I would probably just leave it the way it is.

[Saru Inc]

Warrior, as I said, miscarriage is accidental, abortion is deliberate.

[Ginger_Warrior]

Warrior, as I said, miscarriage is accidental, abortion is deliberate.

 

But if God has as much control over nature as some would like to make out, it's not accidental at all, is it?

 

 

 

You can't say humans have responsibility as stewards over the world to prevent abortions, and then say God wilfully neglects to enact his own rules. That simply does not make any sense.

[RayOxide]

Yay for Barrack. Hadnt posted yay but,

 

 

 

Imo hes gonna get killed soon...

 

[bleep]gy little [bleep]ing KKK. Noone likes you racist bastards.

 

 

 

And btw Chuck Norris elect 2016.

[l0l0lpur32]

Yay for Barrack. Hadnt posted yay but,

 

 

 

Imo hes gonna get killed soon...

 

[bleep]gy little [bleep] KKK. Noone likes you racist bastards.

 

 

 

And btw Chuck Norris elect 2016.

 

The KKK doesn't even exist anymore except a few tiny fringe groups scattered over random places, with probably less than 500 or so members combined - I highly doubt they would be able to organise the assassination of the best-protected man in the world.

[jackattack]

The same people that are "pro-life" are also the ones that are "anti-tax" and "anti-programs" to help single women and struggling families to raise the child that they're forcing the person to raise. Once the child is born, you don't give a damn what happens to it.

 

 

 

How does being for lower taxes mean I don't care about children? I don't want to force anybody to raise any child. Just not let them kill it. anyone can walk in into a fire station, police station, or hospital and just dump any unwanted kid no questions asked. With that I see no reason for killing the baby.

 

 

 

Where are you getting the money to care for these children, Jack? You want lower taxes, low spending...but won't let women make a choice concerning their bodies. So you're either a.) Forcing young women to carry children that they don't want, and that isn't even a child during the time that she would get the abortion, and then forcing her to raise the child, or b.) Forcing young women to carry the child and then leave them to a hospital to be cared for by foster care where the child doesn't receive the nurturing care that it needs, and effectively costs our nation out of house and home.

 

 

 

I mean, which is it? Raise taxes exponentially to pump into foster care, and centers that help teenage mothers/poor mothers...or force them to have the child and tell them that they're on their own? If it's the latter, then you're exactly what I said: someone that's pro-life that doesn't care what happens to the child once it's born.

 

 

 

Just because I'm for low spending doesn't mean I'm against all spending. I'm not going to sit here and say "Let the children starve! HAHAHA Now I'm going to go count my money!" And there are plenty of people willing to adopt children. I don't really know what the numbers are but I'd bet most abortions aren't from situations where the mother would be unable to care for the child. And if you want to go down that road why not just force abortion on poor people?

[Ginger_Warrior]

Just because I'm for low spending doesn't mean I'm against all spending. I'm not going to sit here and say "Let the children starve! HAHAHA Now I'm going to go count my money!" And there are plenty of people willing to adopt children. I don't really know what the numbers are but I'd bet most abortions aren't from situations where the mother would be unable to care for the child. And if you want to go down that road why not just force abortion on poor people?

 

I'm sorry, did you just imply bad mothers are generally from the poorer in society? Because if so your snobbery just crossed the line.

[jackattack]

Not really. If anything it was probably the opposite.

[magekillr]

don't really know what the numbers are but I'd bet most abortions aren't from situations where the mother would be unable to care for the child.

 

 

 

I don't know about most abortions, but I do know one woman that wanted a child, but she doesn't have enough time or money to care for a special needs child. Each time she got pregnant, the child had a disability. She's had 3 abortions because of it, and each time she was very depressed about it.

 

 

 

I believe a lot of abortions happen among women that already have children, and don't have the funds or time to raise more.

 

 

 

Question: How much time in jail should a woman do if she gets an abortion, if it's illegal?

[jackattack]

My aunt adopted a kid with down syndrome. They live in socal so I've never met him though. There are plenty of people willing to adopt children with disabilities. Any life is preferable to being systematically exterminated. If someone has children and doesn't want more why not get sterilized instead of using abortion as contraception? And the woman shouldn't go to jail the doctor should just lose his license. We should get to where people would do the right thing and have the baby instead of just doing the easy thing and killing it.

[magekillr]

Until you figure out what to do with the children we currently have in orphanages or foster homes, don't tell me that there's plenty of people willing to adopt. Giving birth is a dangerous medical procedure, as is abortion, but they shouldn't be forced to carry another being for 9 months.

 

 

 

You know the people that ARE willing to adopt? Homosexuals. Unfortunately, people like you won't let them adopt.

[J a m e s]

My aunt adopted a kid with down syndrome. They live in socal so I've never met him though. There are plenty of people willing to adopt children with disabilities. Any life is preferable to being systematically exterminated. If someone has children and doesn't want more why not get sterilized instead of using abortion as contraception? And the woman shouldn't go to jail the doctor should just lose his license. We should get to where people would do the right thing and have the baby instead of just doing the easy thing and killing it.

 

 

 

Can we send God to jail for his systematic extermination, too?

 

 

 

"It is God who has sinned against me!"

[jackattack]

Until you figure out what to do with the children we currently have in orphanages or foster homes, don't tell me that there's plenty of people willing to adopt. Giving birth is a dangerous medical procedure, as is abortion, but they shouldn't be forced to carry another being for 9 months.

 

 

 

You know the people that ARE willing to adopt? Homosexuals. Unfortunately, people like you won't let them adopt.

 

 

 

 

 

It's easier to get a baby adopted then it is to get a teen adopted. And what do you mean people like me? When have I ever said that?

[Ginger_Warrior]

My aunt adopted a kid with down syndrome. They live in socal so I've never met him though. There are plenty of people willing to adopt children with disabilities. Any life is preferable to being systematically exterminated. If someone has children and doesn't want more why not get sterilized instead of using abortion as contraception? And the woman shouldn't go to jail the doctor should just lose his license. We should get to where people would do the right thing and have the baby instead of just doing the easy thing and killing it.

 

That makes wonderful sense.

 

 

 

There's a shortage of doctors everywhere in the developed world (except Cuba, ironically enough), and you would take away all the licences of those who agree to do abortions, and destroy their careers, on the grounds that it's immoral.

 

 

 

You're a genius! =D>

[baalboy5]

How is abortion wrong when the thing inside of her is never fully borned? it has no thoughs, no use for this world, in a way, its just a empty body til it's capable to think.

 

Hope I worded that right.

[Cup Lion]

How is abortion wrong when the thing inside of her is never fully borned? it has no thoughs, no use for this world, in a way, its just a empty body til it's capable to think.

 

Hope I worded that right.

 

Heh, the issue is determining if it is technically "born" and if it is capable to think. We don't know that.

[db300]

How is abortion wrong when the thing inside of her is never fully borned? it has no thoughs, no use for this world, in a way, its just a empty body til it's capable to think.

 

Hope I worded that right.

 

 

 

The thing is, nobody's sure when it has feelings and thoughts.

[baalboy5]

How is abortion wrong when the thing inside of her is never fully borned? it has no thoughs, no use for this world, in a way, its just a empty body til it's capable to think.

 

Hope I worded that right.

 

Heh, the issue is determining if it is technically "born" and if it is capable to think. We don't know that.

 

Then its ok to abort it. Undertermined studies shouldn't waste our chances.

[meol]

How is abortion wrong when the thing inside of her is never fully borned? it has no thoughs, no use for this world, in a way, its just a empty body til it's capable to think.

 

Hope I worded that right.

 

Heh, the issue is determining if it is technically "born" and if it is capable to think. We don't know that.

 

Well, most people think with their brain, and it's also from the brain that the feelings come. So, it'd be safe to assume abortion is moral at least until the embryo has developed a nervous system, isn't it?

[baalboy5]

How is abortion wrong when the thing inside of her is never fully borned? it has no thoughs, no use for this world, in a way, its just a empty body til it's capable to think.

 

Hope I worded that right.

 

Heh, the issue is determining if it is technically "born" and if it is capable to think. We don't know that.

 

Well, most people think with their brain, and it's also from the brain that the feelings come. So, it'd be safe to assume abortion is moral at least until the embryo has developed a nervous system, isn't it?

 

Half the people arguing agianst it problely doesn't even know this

[Dizzle229]

Next poster gets the 1k!