Sarah Palin

[Ginger_Warrior]

The Naval Academy has pretty high standards. I doubt it was much. I know one of the worst things he did was sneak a T.V. into his room. Compare that with Obama who's misbehaving in school included snorting coke.

 

What politician hasn't done coke? Practically all our top politicians have admitted it in this country and no one really batted an eye lid. In fact, some people took it as a positive they were being so honest, and it acted as a message to youngsters, "If you're gonna do it (which we don't advise, but we can't stop you), do it small amounts first and make sure you're at least safe doing it".

 

 

 

Taking coke once or twice doesn't compare with months of sustained misbehaviour.

 

 

 

I'm not american, but if i would be able to vote, this makes me wanting to vote even less on Republicans.

 

Against abortion, even if rape? Idiotic as hell.

 

What's more is that they expected a person who is the most vehement anti-abortionist you could ever meet would honestly attract Hillary's disillusioned supporters.

 

 

 

EDIT: Once again, Palin horrendously links politics with religion. This time, she's claiming the war in Iraq is a "task from God".

 

9H-btXPfhGs&feature=bzb302

[magekillr]

I hate American politics with all of these damn non-issues...jesus christ.

 

 

 

"John McCain how many houses do you own?"

 

 

 

WHO CARES! Do I get health care after I find out? Do my friends come home from Iraq?

 

 

 

"Barack Obama used drugs when he was a youngster."

 

 

 

Yeah? And? So do I, and so do many other people. I mean I haven't done coke, but I can't say I wouldn't try it once if it was offered by someone I knew and trusted.

 

 

 

*sigh*

 

 

 

I can't let that religious zealot get near that White House...my parents are evangelicals and she's even worse than they are. Although, they abhor abortion even in cases of incest and rape.

 

 

 

What's NOT a "non-issue" is that Wasilla High School was named a "drop out factory" by John Hopkins University, in 2006, the year after Palin left to be Governor. Before any spin about this, don't say "Hey it was good while she was there!" This tells me she and her PTA/Mayoral experience didn't do anything for their own high school that had one of the highest drop out rates in the country. 58% of students who went and attended from freshmen to senior graduated.

 

 

 

edit:

 

 

 

Palin refuses to talk to the media:

 

 

 

According to Nicole Wallace of the McCain campaign, the American people don't care whether Sarah Palin can answer specific questions about foreign and domestic policy. According to Wallace -- in an appearance I did with her this morning on Joe Scarborough's show -- the American people will learn all they need to know (and all they deserve to know) from Palin's scripted speeches and choreographed appearances on the campaign trail and in campaign ads.

 

 

 

Wallace's bash-the-media exercise has its merits as a campaign tactic. It certainly rallies the base. But the base won't lift McCain to 50% in November. More importantly, in her smug dismissal of the media's role in asking questions of the candidates, Wallace was really showing contempt not for reporters, but for voters. I bet there are a lot of undecided voters out there who were intrigued by Sarah Palin last night, but who don't yet know enough about her -- what she believes, what she knows -- to be comfortable with the idea of her as vice president of the United States. It's important to them to know if Palin can handle herself in an environment that isn't controlled and sanitized by campaign image makers and message mavens. Maybe she can, maybe she can't. As far as Wallace is concerned, it's none of their -- or your -- business.

 

[llcoolguy972]

I haven't really followed the discussion here at all, but I found this video and I didn't see it posted, so I wanted to stick it here.

 

 

 

Clicky

 

 

 

It's nice to see some form of media that isn't completely biased. :

[BlueLancer]

This time, she's claiming the war in Iraq is a "task from God".

 

9H-btXPfhGs&feature=bzb302

 

 

 

What a load of crap. This woman shouldn't be let anywhere near the presidency. Really, how many people will buy it? War in Iraq as a "mission from God"?

 

 

 

I could bear the thought of McCain being in the white house. With this witch? Not a chance I'd vote in a million years.. Even Hillary would be the lesser of two evils.

[Ginger_Warrior]

Hillary may have been bad in the eyes of most Americans. Although it's something I personally feel is vital to my own country, compulsory national insurance isn't exactly a vote winner in America.

 

 

 

But this woman... well let's list it:

 

 

 

• [*:110li1lw]She forces her views onto others
   
  [*:110li1lw]She denies other women the right to choose an abortion
   
  [*:110li1lw]She bases an engrossing amount of her opinions on her religious beliefs, even if those concerned don't even follow the religion
   
  [*:110li1lw]She believes global warming is man-made (by that logic, God clearly hates Alaska anyway)
   
  [*:110li1lw]She has only two years of executive experience in a state where hardly anyone lives with a tiny economy in comparison to whole of America
   
  [*:110li1lw]She seems to think having a baby with Downs' Syndrome is somehow a plus for VP
   
  [*:110li1lw]She seems to believe the war in Iraq is some theological conflict against (presumably) Islam
   
  [*:110li1lw]She can't even keep her own kids on the straight path she's chosen for them (Oh no, that's right, she's getting married to the guy she's going out with... at 17. Yeah that's the founding of a great relationship right there... No kiddies, don't wait for a secure relationship before having sex, just get married asap and then do as it you please.)

 

 

 

What on Earth is the appeal in this woman? This is what we've learned from just a week - there's still two months left to go!

 

 

 

Is Hillary, or even Obama, really that much worse than Palin in the eyes of your average Republican?

[assassin_696]

You have to admit though, she is strangely interesting. I might almost like her, if she wasn't such an evangelic creationist nut.

[magekillr]

You have to admit though, she is strangely interesting. I might almost like her, if she wasn't such an evangelic creationist nut.

 

 

 

No, I have to bite my tongue when speaking about this woman without coming off as sexist, but she is truly a [bleep].

 

 

 

She insulted Obama's experience as a community organizer, and I take EXTREME offense to this because while I go to school, I am a community organizer and it's A LOT of work.

 

 

 

Does this woman not realize that community organizers are to thank for the Civil Rights Movement, the Peace Corps, Hurricane and natural disaster relief, blood drives, volunteer firefighters....the lists just go on and on and on.

 

 

 

Oh, Sarah Palin, you wouldn't have the right to vote, much less be appointed to the VP candidacy, without community organizers. This woman is a [bleep]ING disgrace!

 

 

 

Oh, Hello Mrs. Palin:

 

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOBWZ7Jocc8

[jackattack]

I only brought up Obama's coke use because some other guy said McCain was a trouble maker and if McCain had done anything like that, never mind graduating towards the bottom of his class, he would have been expelled. And saying the war is a task from God isn't really anything. It may be to you if you're not religious but to most religious people everything is a task from God. And outlawing abortion isn't forcing your views on anyone it's simply stopping people from enforcing death on the baby.

[imbackstinkers]

I only brought up Obama's coke use because some other guy said McCain was a trouble maker and if McCain had done anything like that, never mind graduating towards the bottom of his class, he would have been expelled. And saying the war is a task from God isn't really anything. It may be to you if you're not religious but to most religious people everything is a task from God. And outlawing abortion isn't forcing your views on anyone it's simply stopping people from enforcing death on the baby.

 

 

 

 

 

why the fudge does she care! it's not her baby she needs to get her head out of the 18th century and join us normal people in the 21st century

[RSBDavid]

Speak of the devil.....

 

 

 

She is as annoying as a german schoolteacher shouting french curse words at a chinese catholic school.

 

 

[/fail attempt at joke]

 

 

 

I don't really want her as VP. She seems manipulative.

 

 

 

Also, I wish people would quitting bringing her good looking daughter into this.

[mmmcannibalism]

 

But this woman... well let's list it:

 

 

 

• [*:2dv208gz]She forces her views onto others
   
  [*:2dv208gz]She denies other women the right to choose an abortion
   
  [*:2dv208gz]She bases an engrossing amount of her opinions on her religious beliefs, even if those concerned don't even follow the religion
   
  [*:2dv208gz]She believes global warming is man-made (by that logic, God clearly hates Alaska anyway)
   
  [*:2dv208gz]She has only two years of executive experience in a state where hardly anyone lives with a tiny economy in comparison to whole of America
   
  [*:2dv208gz]She seems to think having a baby with Downs' Syndrome is somehow a plus for VP
   
  [*:2dv208gz]She seems to believe the war in Iraq is some theological conflict against (presumably) Islam
   
  [*:2dv208gz]She can't even keep her own kids on the straight path she's chosen for them (Oh no, that's right, she's getting married to the guy she's going out with... at 17. Yeah that's the founding of a great relationship right there... No kiddies, don't wait for a secure relationship before having sex, just get married asap and then do as it you please.)

 

 

 

first off to clarify I do think palin is too far right wing. She does put too many religious arguments into politics (main one I know off hand is opposing civil unions for gays. I think gay marriage should be legal but think there are people that legitimately believe in civil unions but maintaining special status for marriage.)

 

 

 

just to say again I do think she is too right wing, I think part of choosing her was that she can energize people and she seems human which is something we do need more of in politicians.

 

 

 

okay now to actually get onto defending some points made there

 

 

 

1. dont all politicians force their views on others to an extent, any law is doing that to some extent

 

 

 

2. before i note ginger if you want an abortion debate lets go to pm to keep this on topic. Saying women have a right to choose an abortion really understates the babies right to live. Like I said lets not turn this into an abortion debate.

 

 

 

3. ill give you this one because as i said she is too hard right wing

 

 

 

4. it is man made to a certain extent and really its a debate for scientists

 

 

 

5. true but obama has very little, and she has more then 2 years just 2 years as governor

 

 

 

6. its not the fact that she has a baby with down syndrome the point is she is against abortion and stuck to it

 

 

 

7. id have to do some research on that speech(cant watch video dial up) but id keep it open that she meant god given to spread liberty, yes that is pretty cheesy sounding. Will need to research but would still connect to me agreeing she is too religion run

 

 

 

8. are we really going to judge her by the fact that her daughter is pregnant? I mean I even say her abstinance only plan is terrible but no matter how good parents are there would still be kids that "rebelled". She does have 5 kids also so if she wasnt uber shielding her 17 year old can you blame her?

[Ginger_Warrior]

You cannot inflict pain onto something which cannot feel pain - a foetus below 24 weeks cannot feel pain. It's not enforcing anything on anyone, since women still have a choice to have an abortion and are certainly not advised by doctors to have one.

 

 

 

On the other hand, we could let the baby be born into a family that doesn't want it, or else cannot provide for it, and see its existence is worth living enough to fit in with your religious principles, jack.

 

 

 

And as for the comment about everything religious people do is a task from God - absolute rubbish. There are a whole load of Christian sects which don't feel that way.

 

 

 

As for the fourth point, mmmcannibalism, I believe there's a mistake there. It should read as follows:

 

She doesn't believe global warming is man-made (by that logic, God clearly hates Alaska anyway)

[jackattack]

You cannot inflict pain onto something which cannot feel pain - a foetus below 24 weeks cannot feel pain. It's not enforcing anything on anyone, since women still have a choice to have an abortion and are certainly not advised by doctors to have one.

 

 

 

On the other hand, we could let the baby be born into a family that doesn't want it, or else cannot provide for it, and see its existence is worth living enough to fit in with your religious principles, jack.

 

 

 

And as for the comment about everything religious people do is a task from God - absolute rubbish. There are a whole load of Christian sects which don't feel that way.

 

 

 

As for the fourth point, mmmcannibalism, I believe there's a mistake there. It should read as follows:

 

She doesn't believe global warming is man-made (by that logic, God clearly hates Alaska anyway)

 

 

 

Just because it can't feel pain doesn't mean it isn't alive. And no one has to take a baby if they don't want it. Ever heard of adoption? Under that mindset we should go to Africa and exterminate all babies there because they will have a bad life. And most mainstream Christian Churches think that their whole life if from God.

 

 

 

I only brought up Obama's coke use because some other guy said McCain was a trouble maker and if McCain had done anything like that, never mind graduating towards the bottom of his class, he would have been expelled. And saying the war is a task from God isn't really anything. It may be to you if you're not religious but to most religious people everything is a task from God. And outlawing abortion isn't forcing your views on anyone it's simply stopping people from enforcing death on the baby.

 

 

 

 

 

why the fudge does she care! it's not her baby she needs to get her head out of the 18th century and join us normal people in the 21st century

 

 

 

 

 

Wait so to normal people in the 21st century it is acceptable to not care about babies being slaughtered?

[Ginger_Warrior]

Just because it can't feel pain doesn't mean it isn't alive. And no one has to take a baby if they don't want it. Ever heard of adoption? Under that mindset we should go to Africa and exterminate all babies there because they will have a bad life. And most mainstream Christian Churches think that their whole life if from God.

 

Once again, rather infuriatingly you are not reading what other people are saying.

 

 

 

Whether or not you say the baby has life is beside the point. It is the principal that a woman should be allowed to decide for herself whether or not she is to go through a procedure which still remains potentially lethal and dangerous to this day. You do not have the right to tell someone else that having an abortion (which still remains a legal right) amounts to infanticide, and from that, outlaw it in total ignorance to the danger the mother-to-be faces.

 

 

 

Second to that, there is a certain irony in the fact you would happily outlaw abortion, yet Palin would make no attempt to provide decent sex-ed in schools to prevent young women getting pregnant in the first place.

[jackattack]

I don't think the danger of the mother dying qualifies as a legit reason that abortion should be legal. the maternal death rate is probably barely over 10 in a 100,000. Most abortions are done simply for convenience. 40,000,000 since Roe v. Wade. Not to mention that planned parenthood is a eugenics based organization. They actually let you choose what race of baby to kill when you donate money. That might be why every week more black babies are killed than the KKK has ever killed. It's a genocide.

[mmmcannibalism]

You cannot inflict pain onto something which cannot feel pain - a foetus below 24 weeks cannot feel pain. It's not enforcing anything on anyone, since women still have a choice to have an abortion and are certainly not advised by doctors to have one.

 

 

 

On the other hand, we could let the baby be born into a family that doesn't want it, or else cannot provide for it, and see its existence is worth living enough to fit in with your religious principles, jack.

 

 

 

As for the fourth point, mmmcannibalism, I believe there's a mistake there. It should read as follows:

 

She doesn't believe global warming is man-made (by that logic, God clearly hates Alaska anyway)

 

 

 

First off plan b pills ftw(prevent fetus from developing past small cluster of cells) just saying. If you are holding to only allowing abortions before fetus develops ability to feel pain how about we just agree to disagree, your clearly being reasonable in your opinion so I have no problem there.

 

 

 

as to the babies not wanted, what we need to do is start promoting adoption over in vitro in such, but yes I do realize there is a tricky issue with lower income people getting pregnant.

 

 

 

if she thinks global warming is not at all man made she is being stubborn, so is saying that it is not at all natural, though if her opinion is the first I agree she is at least partly wrong

 

 

 

edit--whether the baby has life or not is a valid issue in a debate on womens choice to an abortion, because even you have to agree that one life doesnt have the right to end another. The abortion debate should focus on what we want to define as life agreed?

 

 

 

I agree we should have thoughrough(spelling) sex ed in schools, you arent going to stop teens from having sex so we need to really explain that they need to use birth control and if they have unprotected sex need to go get plan b pills. That would cut a whole lot of abortions right there something that im sure you agree is a good thing

 

 

 

edit again--abortion shouldnt get federal funding, if an organization wants to work privately to fund abortions then thats their matter but tax dollars shouldnt go to it.

[Ginger_Warrior]

I don't think the danger of the mother dying qualifies as a legit reason that abortion should be legal. the maternal death rate is probably barely over 10 in a 100,000. Most abortions are done simply for convenience. 40,000,000 since Roe v. Wade. Not to mention that planned parenthood is a eugenics based organization. They actually let you choose what race of baby to kill when you donate money. That might be why every week more black babies are killed than the KKK has ever killed. It's a genocide.

 

Sex-, race- and to a certain extent, disability-selective abortion is not something that should be condoned. An abortion should only be taken if the baby would have a detrimental effect on the two parents concerned. Not wanting a baby should qualify for that, although contraception should always be the first option, if only to prevent the transmittance of STIs. However, to suggest all people who engage in sexual activities will use contraception is idealism in the face of stark reality. Hence why abortion is needed in case it's not used, or else fails. Quite clearly, having an abortion because the baby is white or black and you don't like it is not a valid reason for such an (admittedly) unethical procedure.

 

 

 

However, a woman still has the right to decide whether or not she wants to give birth to a baby and cope with 9 months of pregnancy, especially while it remains such a painful and dangerous procedure. Simply throwing a baby into adoption isn't desirable, and requires state funding to provide services.

[jackattack]

Wait so you are saying that just because the mother doesn't want to go through childbirth is an acceptable reason to kill the baby? And that killing the baby is preferable to adoption because that needs money from the government?

[Ginger_Warrior]

I'm saying adoption isn't a desirable alternative. If not concerning money, then for the actual child. Knowing your parents didn't want is hardly an ideal life itself.

 

 

 

And again, you're assuming there is one definition of "life". Clearly, mine and yours are different. Yours is spiritual. But I regard life as starting when the baby has the ability to 'feel'. This is around 24 weeks into development.

 

 

 

It's not just a case of a women not wanting to have a baby - to break it down into such simple analogy is puerile. It's a case of it being dangerous.

[mmmcannibalism]

Sex-, race- and to a certain extent, disability-selective abortion is not something that should be condoned. An abortion should only be taken if the baby would have a detrimental effect on the two parents concerned. Not wanting a baby should qualify for that, although contraception should always be the first option, if only to prevent the transmittance of STIs. However, to suggest all people who engage in sexual activities will use contraception is idealism in the face of stark reality. Hence why abortion is needed in case it's not used, or else fails. Quite clearly, having an abortion because the baby is white or black and you don't like it is not a valid reason for such an (admittedly) unethical procedure.

 

 

 

However, a woman still has the right to decide whether or not she wants to give birth to a baby and cope with 9 months of pregnancy, especially while it remains such a painful and dangerous procedure. Simply throwing a baby into adoption isn't desirable, and requires state funding to provide services.

 

 

 

um I would have to check but do you know off hand when pregnancy tests register pregnancy, and when most women would notice said pregnancy without a test? Would provide a better frame of where we are going from abortion because contraception failed to deciding they dont want the baby and killing.

 

 

 

It is really hard to say much about times when contraceptive fails and people that tried to avoid becoming pregnant do. I guess the most realistic frame for what abortions should be based both on the time a pregnancy can be detected and the time of fetal nerve development. The main problem I think we have in 1st world countries is that we have way too many conveinance abortions when they baby could be born perfectly well and sent to a family with fertility issues that wanted to adopt.

 

 

 

It isnt right to draw a line on what is acceptable and what is not here.

 

 

 

also id rather see state funds go into adoption clinics then abortion clinics. We need to work on a way to encourage carrying babies to term, while accepting that abstinance only and demonizing anyone that gets an abortion will never work.

 

 

 

edit--actually adoption is desirable, Im adopted and not bothered by the fact my 16 year old mother couldnt take care of me.

 

 

 

I dont know what to call my definition of life, your is certainly very reasonable and actually I would call that a great basis for legal definition. I personally lean towards the time when it goes from a cluster of cells to human formed but thats an individual thing.

[jackattack]

Getting an abortion is more dangerous than giving birth.

The study found that the mortality rate associated with abortion is 2.95 times higher than that associated with pregnancies carried to term.

http://www.physiciansforlife.org/content/view/1516/26/ It's not a case of it being dangerous.

 

 

 

And just because a baby will be adopted it is preferable to kill it? Don't you have any adopted friends? I have a two, and I'm sure they would prefer the life they have to being killed. And I guess the guy above me too. And I don't see how you think a baby isn't alive until it can feel. Is a fish alive?

[Ginger_Warrior]

A fish can feel pain. Hence it tries to escape when it's being eaten alive...

[hicky_mouse]

edit again--abortion shouldnt get federal funding, if an organization wants to work privately to fund abortions then thats their matter but tax dollars shouldnt go to it.

 

 

 

He's right. The government will need that money to pay welfare to people born into poor families, who could not afford abortions.

[jackattack]

A fish can feel pain. Hence it tries to escape when it's being eaten alive...

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think they do. I'm not really a big fisherman but I think the reason they try to escape is survival instinct and not pain.

[EdgedThesis]

A fish can feel pain. Hence it tries to escape when it's being eaten alive...

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think they do. I'm not really a big fisherman but I think the reason they try to escape is survival instinct and not pain.

 

 

 

Its the same thing. The mechanism that allows animals to escape what hurts them is pain. That is the only purpose for pain.

 

 

 

Without pain, you wouldn't jerk your hand away from a steaming hot kettle or an electric fence. You'd just let it do its damage.