Freedom of Speech

[megakiller32]

You know, if you think about it, there isn't freedom of speech anywhere. There is officially, but for example lets say you walked down a street and insulted everyone, someone would shut you up or phone the police. Meaning there is no freedom of speech...

 

 

 

I would post more on this but I just got back from France and must unpack.

 

But please, discuss whether you think Freedom of Speech genuinely exists and how?

[baron8000]

Free speech includes not only the inoffensive but the irritating, the contentious, the eccentric, the heretical, the unwelcome and the provocative provided it does not tend to provoke violence. Freedom only to speak inoffensively is not worth having. What Speakers Corner (where the law applies as fully as anywhere else) demonstrates is the tolerance which is both extended by the law to opinion of every kind and expected by the law in the conduct of those who disagree, even strongly, with what they hear. From the condemnation of Socrates to the persecution of modern writers and journalists, our world has seen too many examples of state control of unofficial ideas. A central purpose of the European Convention on Human Rights has been to set close limits to any such assumed power.

 

 

 

Pretty much my view, luckily this statement is hardened law in the UK. Essentially says you can say what you like provide you do not provoke violence (or of course, become violent yourself, then it'd be assualt).

 

 

 

We in the UK most definitely have freedom of speech :)

[Sly_Wizard]

Freedom of speech does not mean the freedom to be a dumb [cabbage].

[Jimmyw3000]

Sure, you have freedom to say what the [bleep] you want to, but that doesnt mean others dont have the freedom to react against you.

[Range_This11]

You have pretty much unlimited free speech. Just wait until this guy comes to your college campus. He is absolutely ridiculous. Him and his cronies travel to campuses around the country trying to get people to attack them and then suing the University.

 

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brother_Jed

[Nom]

Ugh . . .

 

 

 

I don't know how many times this line has to be parroted before people finally get it: Your rights end when they infringe upon the rights of another.

 

 

 

You can say whatever the hell you want. If it becomes harmful, you're a [wagon] and action will be taken.

[Mylez]

NOM_ANOR makes a good point, that statement has become somewhat famous. And I'll emphasise the fact that; freedom of speech is now greater than ever, although freedom of speech doesn't cover racism and other such forms of speech. That's just pathetic, and the fact that you're ranting because of this makes me question what sort of person you are. :roll:

[megakiller32]

Freedom of speech does not mean the freedom to be a dumb [cabbage].

 

 

 

But isn't that a subjective belief?

 

Also, if you don't have the freedom of being a stupid [wagon], then you don't have the freedom of speech to express your assholeyness.

[oegly41]

Freedom is more complicated than just saying whatever the hell you want.

 

 

 

Your rights end when they infringe upon the rights of another.

 

Yes, I was going to say that... Freedom of speach doesn't work without respect. We will just have to realise that complete freedom will never exist. We must ensure a restricted level of freedom for everyone. If we give everyone complete freedom, someone will use that complete freedom to take other's freedom. There is an extremely fine line between anarchy and fascism.

[Dizzle229]

We in the U.S. (and I think the U.K.) have freedom of speech. But you see, there needs to be limits. For example, yelling "fire" in a movie theatre could be dangerous. It causes a panic and people can get hurt. But you can criticize the government, somethingt you can't do in many countries.

 

 

 

Basically, there are only three things you can't do with freedom of speech.

 

 

 

1. Cause a false panic.

 

2. Disturb the peace.

 

3. Slander

 

 

 

An elaboration on #2: You have every right to say you don't believe in God, but lets say you run into a church and scream "I don't believe in God!". Your disturbing the peace, and could get arrested for it. But if you do it in a way that just expresses your opinion and doesn't interfere with others time, there's no problem.

 

 

 

Example: Your friend is going to Church and he asks you if you want to come. You say "No thanks, I don't believe in 'God." That's perfectly fine.

 

 

 

P.S. I'm not trying to turn this into a religious thread, this was just the first example that came to mind.

 

 

 

Edit: Also, COMPLETE freedom = anarchy = bad.

[Cyco_Reborn]

You have freedom to say whatever you want, but you have to be prepared to face any possible consequences. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

[baron8000]

 

 

 

Also, COMPLETE freedom = anarchy = bad.

 

 

 

Yes, good point.

 

 

 

One of the older concepts of freedom is a Roman one - neatly described as "Usus, Fructus and Abusus".

 

 

 

Whilst originally based around ownership, it stated that you should have the basic freedoms to use, profit from, or destroy/not profit from anything you own. So, imagine I have a plot of land, I may use it how I wish, I may grow crops upon it, or I could just entirely ignore it. Its my thing and I can do as I wish with it. This analogy can be transferred over to my voice and freedom of speech - I may use it, I may profit from my speech, or I can choose not to say anything. Simple so far.

 

 

 

The Roman jurists however, realised that these principles required limitation. Say I own a sword, I certainly cannot stab somebody with it just because it is my sword and I should have the freedom to use it as I wish. It works the same way with your voice and speech, just because you generally deserve the freedom to use it as you wish, there are areas of use that must be limited - say if the use is to another's (or societies) detriment.

 

 

 

From a very technical point of view therefore, we have no complete freedom of speech, but, as any sensible person would agree, complete freedom of speech would be more harmful than beneficial.

[warri0r45]

Ugh . . .

 

 

 

I don't know how many times this line has to be parroted before people finally get it: Your rights end when they infringe upon the rights of another.

 

 

 

You can say whatever the hell you want. If it becomes harmful, you're a [wagon] and action will be taken.

 

 

 

Agreed.

 

 

 

This is basically my view on freedom of speech. I live in a free society and should be able to talk about any ideas I want with other people, so long as I'm not infringing on their rights, or as Baron said, so long as I'm not inciting violence.

[Dizzle229]

The lasts three posts are exactly right.

 

 

 

Scenario 1: I think that president Bush is a bad leader. :thumbup:

 

Scenario 2: I think that president Bush is a bad leader, and he will be shot. :thumbdown:

[DaN]

Real free-speech can only exist online and even then your Governments fight hard to oppose it. Free-speech is any governments greatest enemy because it allows the existence of democracy.

 

 

 

In order to have true free-speech you need anonymity or at least the "option" of anonymity. Only then do you have real free speech.

 

 

 

Free-speech = Free from all possible consequences.

[Lenin64]

Who cares if you don't have the right to say every single thing you could possibly think of? You've got mostly free speech, and you're a greedy sonuvagun if you don't just accept that you even get that, it's far more than I would give anyone. You don't see anyone else complaining that they can't incite people into a riot or threaten the President.

[DaN]

Who cares if you don't have the right to say every single thing you could possibly think of?

 

 

 

It's people like you who suddenly complain when you get thrown in Jail for making a comment about your government. If you aren't prepared to defend your freedom then you have no right to complain once they are taken away.

[warren211]

Freedom of speech doesn't always mean freedom to talk. And as Nom Anor said, it's only free until it infringes on other's rights. This will be a cheap example, but the constitution does say an unalienable right is the pursuit of happiness. People certainly aren't in the process of pursuing happiness when the kid next to them is swearing in every language he knows and in several he doesn't.

 

 

 

And as someone else said, speech that invokes violence crosses the line as well. The law is pretty much well defined.

[Lenin64]

Who cares if you don't have the right to say every single thing you could possibly think of?

 

 

 

It's people like you who suddenly complain when you get thrown in Jail for making a comment about your government. If you aren't prepared to defend your freedom then you have no right to complain once they are taken away.

 

Ah, but people like me don't make comments about our governments in the first place ;)

[Nom]

Real free-speech can only exist online and even then your Governments fight hard to oppose it. Free-speech is any governments greatest enemy because it allows the existence of democracy.

 

 

 

Democracy is a form of government. And in its pure form does not work.

[Nadril]

Who cares if you don't have the right to say every single thing you could possibly think of?

 

 

 

It's people like you who suddenly complain when you get thrown in Jail for making a comment about your government. If you aren't prepared to defend your freedom then you have no right to complain once they are taken away.

 

 

 

We can make any comment about our government we want though. I can say that George bush is a [bleep]ing moron in public and not get arrested for it.

[DaN]

Who cares if you don't have the right to say every single thing you could possibly think of?

 

 

 

It's people like you who suddenly complain when you get thrown in Jail for making a comment about your government. If you aren't prepared to defend your freedom then you have no right to complain once they are taken away.

 

 

 

We can make any comment about our government we want though. I can say that George bush is a [bleep] moron in public and not get arrested for it.

 

 

 

But not everyone in the world has that right.

[deathdrow]

Who cares if you don't have the right to say every single thing you could possibly think of?

 

 

 

It's people like you who suddenly complain when you get thrown in Jail for making a comment about your government. If you aren't prepared to defend your freedom then you have no right to complain once they are taken away.

 

 

 

We can make any comment about our government we want though. I can say that George bush is a [bleep] moron in public and not get arrested for it.

 

 

 

But not everyone in the world has that right.

 

i wouldnt really consider that a right.

[DaN]

Who cares if you don't have the right to say every single thing you could possibly think of?

 

 

 

It's people like you who suddenly complain when you get thrown in Jail for making a comment about your government. If you aren't prepared to defend your freedom then you have no right to complain once they are taken away.

 

 

 

We can make any comment about our government we want though. I can say that George bush is a [bleep] moron in public and not get arrested for it.

 

 

 

But not everyone in the world has that right.

 

i wouldnt really consider that a right.

 

 

 

You don't think people have the right to speak out against their government?

[redhaloguy]

[hide=]

Who cares if you don't have the right to say every single thing you could possibly think of?

 

 

 

It's people like you who suddenly complain when you get thrown in Jail for making a comment about your government. If you aren't prepared to defend your freedom then you have no right to complain once they are taken away.

 

 

 

We can make any comment about our government we want though. I can say that George bush is a [bleep] moron in public and not get arrested for it.

 

 

 

But not everyone in the world has that right.

 

i wouldnt really consider that a right.

 

 

 

You don't think people have the right to speak out against their government?

[/hide]

 

 

 

You can always think of it. and I'm also sure they don't look over them 24/7 (Listening)

 

 

 

Only a few do it public and they learn from the others