Dizzle229 Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Either ways its pretty complicated, but I wonder if America would still be as intensly pro Israel as it is if the UN decided to place Israel in Utah.. Israel can have Utah, because God knows we don't want it. Get back here so I can rub your butt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueLancer Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Either ways its pretty complicated, but I wonder if America would still be as intensly pro Israel as it is if the UN decided to place Israel in Utah.. Israel can have Utah, because God knows we don't want it. ..lol. Completely o/t, but.. For some reason all the people from Utah I talked to *despise* their state and want to get out of there. Even mr. Maddox made an entire article on how much "Utah blows". It can't be that bad can it -.- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freakyhair Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Either ways its pretty complicated, but I wonder if America would still be as intensly pro Israel as it is if the UN decided to place Israel in Utah.. Israel can have Utah, because God knows we don't want it. ..lol. Completely o/t, but.. For some reason all the people from Utah I talked to *despise* their state and want to get out of there. Even mr. Maddox made an entire article on how much "Utah blows". It can't be that bad can it -.- Maybe we have a solution! More Israel to Utah! :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magekillr Posted January 8, 2009 Author Share Posted January 8, 2009 Well, Freaky, like you said, it's a lot more complicated than that. The real "root" started at the end of the 19th century in Europe. Antisemitism had plagued Europe during this time, and this is when the Zionist movement really started to gain legitimacy. Jews had been rejected from many European countries, and this is when the idea of a "separate country for Jews" had really started. They eyed the area of Palestine, even though it was pretty packed to begin with. Oddly enough, the Palestinian movement emerged at around the same time to fight off the Ottoman Empire, and later on the British colonies. Seeing as both movements eyed the same land, with the Palestinians living there for years, they were going to clash. Now the British controlled the area of Palestine, and the antisemitism reached new heights with WWII and Hitler. The UN pretty much agreed that Britain's empire needed to come to an end, and that the area could be divided evenly among the Jewish people and the Palestinian people. Israel was to get 55% of the land, despite Palestine being there first and the fact that the Jews would make up 33% of the population. Palestine did not agree to this partition of the land, with good reason because it was essentially stolen from them and divied up against their wishes in an unfair manner, so then you have the Arab War of 1948. This war caused thousands upon thousands of Palestinians to be uprooted from their homes, and Israel drastically expanded its borders beyond the original UN partitions. More conflict ensues over the years eventually leading up to the "6 Day War", and now Israel expands its borders so much that the Palestinians are almost pushed into the Mediterranean Sea. Beyond this conflict you have illegal Jewish settlements in the West Bank, Israel controls the sea and airspace, and ultimately limits aid that gets through with blockades. How the US is so pro-Israel, I do not know, but it's beyond ridiculous, and it needs to end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matrix2613 Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Dunno, if this has been said or not, but whatever.... It would be genocide on both sides. But Israel has bigger guns. Yes, but people in the gaza strip are backed by and supplied by Iran, which is in turn backed by Russia. Israel is backed by the U.S., which is in turn backed by most of Europe, Japan, and Argentina. Russia is a big country with a big army and with plentiful nuclear weapons, getting them pissed off could trigger World War III. I know the chance of this happening is very slim, but it's a possibility nontheless. woot.You are one with the matrix. Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Petry Amwose if you ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magekillr Posted January 8, 2009 Author Share Posted January 8, 2009 Dunno, if this has been said or not, but whatever.... It would be genocide on both sides. But Israel has bigger guns. Yes, but people in the gaza strip are backed by and supplied by Iran, which is in turn backed by Russia. Israel is backed by the U.S., which is in turn backed by most of Europe, Japan, and Argentina. Russia is a big country with a big army and with plentiful nuclear weapons, getting them pissed off could trigger World War III. I know the chance of this happening is very slim, but it's a possibility nontheless. Rubbish. Hamas is backed mostly by Saudi Arabia, which is backed by the United States. 1 Yes, they're funded by Iran, but most of their funding comes from Saudi Arabia. Second, 90% of Hamas's funds are spent on their infrastructure, which is why they're in power in the first place. Fatah was corrupt and hoarded the money for their own party, rather than their own citizens. Hamas, as much of a terrorist organization as they are, have helped the people of Palestine when it comes to social programs like schools and hospitals, far more than Fatah. Third, this is my own speculation, but I believe the Saudis are also funding al-Qaeda, which would in fact be a bit of irony because of how much money the Saudis receive from America. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matrix2613 Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Actually, Iran is sending a large ammount of weapons to the strip. If it weren't for those weapons the fighting would be impossible for the members of the strip(will now be refered to as strippers :P) woot.You are one with the matrix. Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Petry Amwose if you ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron8000 Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 How the US is so pro-Israel, I do not know, but it's beyond ridiculous, and it needs to end. Because of the important Jewish vote in US politics I'd imagine. I still wonder, when deciding where to create a new jewish state, the powers that be decided to pick the middle east, an area not to favourable towards jews to begin with. They'd only been persecuted there for thousands of years, did that not raise red flags? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magekillr Posted January 9, 2009 Author Share Posted January 9, 2009 Because of the important Jewish vote in US politics I'd imagine. Well even beyond that vote, the Religious Right and a lot of Christians seem to have unconditional support for Israel. I just don't know where this support comes from given the history of the area, perhaps it's a generational thing. It could be the superficial view of "this conflict going on for thousands of years and the Jews were God's chosen people" or something, but this is a claim I am making out of ignorance, because frankly I do not know where it is coming from or why. I notice a lot of young people are more focused on peace and not "winners and losers". Even some of my friends in Israel that are younger just don't care what happens, as long as it results in peace and freedom. One stated, "I don't care if we give the whole entire land back to Fatah and call it, "The Republic of Banana", I just want the rockets to stop landing on my families' heads, and I want my government to stop killing innocent people." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1_man_army Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Third, this is my own speculation, but I believe the Saudis are also funding al-Qaeda, which would in fact be a bit of irony because of how much money the Saudis receive from America. Aside from destroying America, one of Bin Laden's key aims is to overthrow the Saudi Royal family (he blames them for letting America into the Middle East in the first place). In fact, the Saudi Royal family revoked his citizenship as far as I remember. Don't get me wrong there might be sympathetic elements in Saudi Arabia who support him but I don't think it would go as far as the royal family to be honest. He who learns must suffer, and, even in our sleep, pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart,and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus (525 BC - 456 BC) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megakiller32 Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Dunno about what's happening in your towns, but here in London there are loads of Anti-Israel protests. There's also a pro-israel protest on the weekend, but some things which have happened in the Anti-Israel campaigns- Nazi slogans have been shouted, Israeli flags burned and violence towards jews. For example, in the more Jewish areas (For example Golders Green) Pro-palestinians have defaced property and bus shelters with swastikas, "Jihad 4 Israel" and other various anti-semitic things. I mean, these people are pretty [bleep]ing stupid to wave banners around saying "JIHAD TO ISRAEL, STOP ISRAELI TERRORISM" Then run around being racist swine. Quit Runescape 30th May 2006.Thanks to Hawkxs for my signature :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
folmer_veeman Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 One question, Hamas, terrorist group or just over-anti-propagandized good people..? Seriously I want to know :oops: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megakiller32 Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 One question, Hamas, terrorist group or just over-anti-propagandized good people..? Seriously I want to know :oops: Depends whether you agree with Wiping the zionist entity from the face of the earth or not. Quit Runescape 30th May 2006.Thanks to Hawkxs for my signature :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
folmer_veeman Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 So I reckon they are good people :^o Really, that was sarcasm I'm sorry, don't judge me :? I'm really not a nazi ACCEPT ME :wall: Sometimes my humor really does fail #-o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freakyhair Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 One question, Hamas, terrorist group or just over-anti-propagandized good people..? Seriously I want to know :oops: unless somebody on this forum lives in the gaza strip then you won't know. we're all debating this stuff but i wonder how many of us have been there? to the above post; i think they just want them out of the middle east which is kinda fair really. id say that if israel are good guys then so are hammas if israel are bad then so are hammas. i reckon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assassin_696 Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 One thing I've found interesting is how quickly many of my Jewish friends have blindly leapt to the defence of Israel seemingly without questioning their actions. The loyalty of many Jewish people to the state of Israel is incredibly fierce. I'm also encouraged by the response of many thoughtul Jews who've questioned the short-sightedness of the Israeli response.Example: It Breaks My Heart To See Israel's Stupidity. "Da mihi castitatem et continentam, sed noli modo" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megakiller32 Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 One thing I've found interesting is how quickly many of my Jewish friends have blindly leapt to the defence of Israel seemingly without questioning their actions. The loyalty of many Jewish people to the state of Israel is incredibly fierce. I'm also encouraged by the response of many thoughtul Jews who've questioned the short-sightedness of the Israeli response.Example: It Breaks My Heart To See Israel's Stupidity. I guess it's because there's extremely strong patriotism in Israel, because Israelis have had to fight for the neighboring countries to even acknowledge thier existence, some of them are still declared hostile towards them. Countries like Syria literally want to push the Israelis into the sea. But when I visited Israel two years ago or so, I met a guy who really summed it up he said something like- "there are the Israelis who want to fight, and there are the palestinians who want to fight. But I think they should just go off into a big field and fight, because there are millions of Israelis and Palestinians and Muslims who just want to co-exist peacefully." Its an idealist view, and unfortunately it can't work just like that, but it was nice to hear :) Meanwhile, there are some truly ignorant [cabbage]s in my class at school, who think they know it all. They actually don't even know either side of the argument, infact, I showed them a world map and they didn't know where Gaza is. Apparently Gaza is in Turkey now. Quit Runescape 30th May 2006.Thanks to Hawkxs for my signature :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magekillr Posted January 10, 2009 Author Share Posted January 10, 2009 I'll defend my accusation of the Saudis later, but for now... Israel 'shelled civilian shelter' Israel's offensive in Gaza has been under way for nearly two weeks Israeli forces shelled a house in the Gaza Strip which they had moved around 110 Palestinians into 24 hours earlier, the UN quotes witnesses as saying. The UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA) called it "one of the gravest incidents" since the beginning of the offensive. The shelling at Zeitoun, a south-east suburb of Gaza City, on 5 January killed some 30 people, the report said. Israel says it has looked into the allegations and they are unfounded. Israeli foreign ministry spokesman Yigal Palmor said no Israeli soldiers had been in the area on the day the incident was supposed to have happened. The OCHA report said: "According to several testimonies, on 4 January Israeli foot soldiers evacuated approximately 110 Palestinians into a single-residence house in Zeitoun (half of whom were children) warning them to stay indoors. "Twenty-four hours later, Israeli forces shelled the home repeatedly, killing approximately 30." The UN said those who survived and were able walked 2km to the main north-south road to be transported to hospital in civilian vehicles. "Three children, the youngest of whom was five months old, died upon arrival at the hospital," the report said. 'No safe haven' Allegra Pacheco, of OCHA in Jerusalem, said they were not accusing the Israelis of a deliberate act, but said the incident needed to be investigated. She also said they were concerned at claims by the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) that ambulances were only allowed access to the neighbourhood on Thursday - four days after the alleged incident. The ICRC on Thursday accused Israel of failing to fulfil its duty to help wounded civilians in Gaza. "In Gaza, there is a severe protection of civilians crisis. There is no safe haven, no safe space, for all the civilians, particularly children," Ms Pacheco told the BBC. "Since the ground operation, the number of children killed has risen by 250%." An estimated 770 Palestinians and 14 Israelis have died in nearly two weeks of Israel's air and ground offensive against the Palestinian militant group Hamas. The UN Security Council has called for an immediate ceasefire and the withdrawal of Israeli troops from Gaza. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7819492.stm Israel, please, I beg of you, end the brutality and murder of civilians! When will you stop! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaserDude333 Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Israel, please, I beg of you, end the brutality and murder of civilians! When will you stop! Again: When they agree to stop shooting rockets at us. I ate 620+ brains!! Whoa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichieMcD Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Israel, please, I beg of you, end the brutality and murder of civilians! When will you stop! Again: When they agree to stop shooting rockets at us. Why should civilians have to die for the actions of a terrorist group? The most sickening thing is it seems you agree with killing innocent people till they stop firing rockets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megakiller32 Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Israel, please, I beg of you, end the brutality and murder of civilians! When will you stop! Again: When they agree to stop shooting rockets at us. Why should civilians have to die for the actions of a terrorist group? The most sickening thing is it seems you agree with killing innocent people till they stop firing rockets. How can you tell whose in HAMAS and just taking place in a civilian shelter and whose just a civilian? Anyway I read somewhere (I think it was here actually) they've been told to go to a shelter in the north of the Gaza Strip, which probably won't be shelled. But if it is, then Israel is going crazy. Quit Runescape 30th May 2006.Thanks to Hawkxs for my signature :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaserDude333 Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Israel, please, I beg of you, end the brutality and murder of civilians! When will you stop! Again: When they agree to stop shooting rockets at us. Why should civilians have to die for the actions of a terrorist group? The most sickening thing is it seems you agree with killing innocent people till they stop firing rockets. I didn't say they should die, and we are aren't killing them on purpose. Anyway, I don't agree with them getting killed but I don't care if they do, like you don't really care when the country I live in is being bombed day after day for 8 years. You can call me racist or w/e. I don't care what you think as long as the rocket shootings lessen. That's just me, don't stereotype all of Israel because what I say, which has happened in this topic before. I ate 620+ brains!! Whoa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginger_Warrior Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 If you honestly believe military actions will stop the Hamas rocket attacks, then you're a bigger fool than I had imagined. The war has made another generation of Palestinians willing to sign themselves up, it's made Hamas' political position stronger in Palestine, and the rocket attacks don't take a large amount of funding to operate anyway. This war is doing nothing to stop the smuggling of goods into the Gaza Strip. Indeed, conversely, it could be argued the tunnels' creations was caused by the blockade on the Gaza Strip. Has the Israeli government done anything to address this? Nope. It would rather take the hardline response in order to appeal itself to the majority of Israelis, because war against an enemy boosts popularity (Bush + Iraq, Thatcher + Falklands, to name but two). Anyway, I don't agree with them getting killed but I don't care if they do. That's just me, don't stereotype all of Israel because what I say, which has happened in this topic before. Well, if you don't care about the IDF killing Palestinian civilians, why should we care about Hamas launching rocket attacks on Israeli civilians? | Favourite Game Music | Last.fm | HYT Friend Chat Rules | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichieMcD Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Israel, please, I beg of you, end the brutality and murder of civilians! When will you stop! Again: When they agree to stop shooting rockets at us. Why should civilians have to die for the actions of a terrorist group? The most sickening thing is it seems you agree with killing innocent people till they stop firing rockets. How can you tell whose in HAMAS and just taking place in a civilian shelter and whose just a civilian? Anyway I read somewhere (I think it was here actually) they've been told to go to a shelter in the north of the Gaza Strip, which probably won't be shelled. But if it is, then Israel is going crazy. Infrastructure is torn to bits, the civilians are terrified completely and many wont even leave their homes. Yes, it is quite easy to travel all the way to Northern Gaza when the roads are impassable in many places and bombs are dropping quite regularly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magekillr Posted January 10, 2009 Author Share Posted January 10, 2009 Israel, please, I beg of you, end the brutality and murder of civilians! When will you stop! Again: When they agree to stop shooting rockets at us. Oh goody, now I get to post another article to make your government look even more terrorist than they already are: Excerpt: WASHINGTON, Jan 9 (IPS) - Contrary to Israel's argument that it was forced to launch its air and ground offensive against Gaza in order to stop the firing of rockets into its territory, Hamas proposed in mid-December to return to the original Hamas-Israel ceasefire arrangement, according to a U.S.-based source who has been briefed on the proposal. http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=45350 The fact that you don't care about people dying, is just...wow. I can't even describe it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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