The Gaza Strip

[i_love_burritos]

Ok, but just a question here-

 

Do you agree that Israel should continue the ground assault to wipe out Hamas, or another method?

 

I don't really think it's possible to wipe out Hamas, they've probably taught thier children in thier "cause" and the children will grow up with the Hamas morales of killing all the Jews in the world.

 

 

 

Will stop posting as my views anger some.

 

 

 

Will stop posting as my views anger some.

 

 

 

It seems Jews are just too wasy to blame

[1_man_army]

 

I agree with what you say, but Muslim children have been indoctrinated at a very young age ( young as 3). Their value system is based off the Koran, they believe killing any infidels will lead them to salvation. These are the things that Muslims teach their children (In several troubled areas of the world) Iam not promoting genocide of anykind. Iam simply making an astuteobservation that these children are just as hate oriented, antisemitic as the HAMAS insurgents. Its not of their doing, but rather of the murderous and vile religion called Islam.

 

 

 

On a side, note I'd like to comment on some of these "peaceful demonstrations" that have been happening around the world. When you see on TV, these people are jumping about shouting "Victory to Allah", carrying posters like "Jewish Nazis", and generally behaving like violent, anti-semite, sick rabid dogs. Why does no news channel question these animals ? In my opinion there are far too many biased left wing news groups.

 

 

 

 

An astute observation? There is nothing astute about your 2 posts in this topic, you have went and stereotyped every Muslim on Earth and branded them all terrorists. You are a bigot whether you accept the label or not, it is clear from your posts. Calling people animals because they are protesting against Israel's actions is another example of your blatant stereotyping and using the banners of an extreme minority (I witnessed the Edinburgh protest) to push your bigotry just disgusts me. To justify the killing of children of any background is barbaric and that is what you are suggesting - a pre-emptive killing of Gazan children to stop them joining Hamas.

 

 

 

I don't mind having a different opinion to people here, it happens often enough and I'll argue points with people who have an opposing position to mine without animosity. However, you're really being quite offensive and plainly ignorant - it baffles me that tip.it doesn't take more decisive action when it comes to statements like yours as they're plainly bigoted.

 

 

 

And before you begin with the inevitable, "the Hamas charter says this..." rubbish, I don't support Hamas or agree with their rocket campaign but to stereotype all Gazans and all Muslims because of this is pathetic.

[RichieMcD]

 

 

 

I agree with what you say, but Muslim children have been indoctrinated at a very young age ( young as 3). Their value system is based off the Koran, they believe killing any infidels will lead them to salvation. These are the things that Muslims teach their children (In several troubled areas of the world) Iam not promoting genocide of anykind. Iam simply making an astuteobservation that these children are just as hate oriented, antisemitic as the HAMAS insurgents. Its not of their doing, but rather of the murderous and vile religion called Islam.

 

 

 

On a side, note I'd like to comment on some of these "peaceful demonstrations" that have been happening around the world. When you see on TV, these people are jumping about shouting "Victory to Allah", carrying posters like "Jewish Nazis", and generally behaving like violent, anti-semite, sick rabid dogs. Why does no news channel question these animals ? In my opinion there are far too many biased left wing news groups.

 

 

 

Secondly, the Jewish people of Israel are copping out too much from everyone. What happened to the HAMAS who fired rockets, what happened to the almost 70 year-old conflict ?

 

]It seems Jews are just too wasy to blame[url

 

 

 

Really, so my 2 cousins who are currently raised as Muslims are thought to hate all non-Muslims and killing is the right way? Well that's a new one to me. I will agree yes, in the extremist countries based on the Koran and Sharia law they are raised in a certain extent to the way you said, but not to the point where everyone of them is bred to be a killer or to hate every western.

 

 

 

If Muslims want to kill any non-Islamic believing person then why is there such a huge inflow of them in Western Europe yet violence between them and Christian citizens is practically unheard of? Why would they even come to Christian countries if they're bred to absolutely hate us?

 

 

 

The conflict wouldn't be going on to this day if the Israeli army stopped occupying Palestinian lands, notice why the troubles in Northern Ireland stopped? The British army withdrew which lead to even ground for a peace treaty to be created.

 

 

 

I'm going to agree with 1_Man_Army here, right now your opinion seems to be built on media stereotypes and utter ignorance. You do know there's a lot of passages in Islam about charity and that the average Muslim donates 10% of their annual earnings to charity? Quite a lot more than the average materialistic seeming Christian. Not so barbaric now are they?

[i_love_burritos]

I'm sorry if I offend anyone here. I did not intend to.

 

 

 

I'm not a Muslim hater or Jew lover or vice versa.

 

 

 

Again I'm sorry for my radical right wing views and my ignorance which you cannot tolerate.

 

 

 

Most sincerest apologies.

 

 

 

To above poster,

 

Paragraph one, I never said that.

 

 

 

I have Muslims friends, I just don't like the type of Muslims that like killing each other and others. In fact I don't like anyone who does that. It just angers me to see, these people risking their lives and their children for something that can be averted/ avoided so simply.

 

 

 

EDIT: To above poster, last paragraph.

 

Why do they donate charity ?

 

Because they want to ? Because they feel they are helping some one in need ?

 

No because someone told them to do it.

 

Doesn't that make you feel awkward ?

 

I'd much rather give charity because I genuinely wanted to, rather than it being "forced" upon me.

 

 

 

EDIT: I made a sweeping generalization I knew nothing about.

 

I am a hateful, ignorant bigot.

 

 

 

Oops ! I'm a Islamophobic Rascist

 

 

 

Sorry everyone for offending your "Oh' so special beliefs"

 

 

 

I have no liability/ responsibility of my previous comments, disregard what I said about everything in this thread.

 

 

 

I'm an [wagon].

 

 

 

Peace out !

[RichieMcD]

You've confused anger with a debative argument, it's quite a difference. I wasn't angry, I was debating. If you never said the 1st paragraph then why is it quoted by me and 1_Man_Army but most importantly then you've deleted your comments.

 

 

 

With your last post now you just made yourself look even worse, do you go off into some childish sarcastic rant every time you lose in what is essentially a debate?

 

 

 

FYI I don't have any beliefs, I'm atheist. I just hate when people spout bigoted crap developed from biased media supports built on spreading fear and ignorance.

[Tetsuya]

Israel could of handled this so much better. It's a shame that Israel was so indiscriminate that they managed to attack the UN 3 times.

[i_love_burritos]

There were reports of HAMAS terrorists using a UN compund as cover...

 

But then again there have been reports of the Israelis accidently shelling it also ?

 

 

 

You've confused anger with a debative argument, it's quite a difference. I wasn't angry, I was debating. If you never said the 1st paragraph then why is it quoted by me and 1_Man_Army but most importantly then you've deleted your comments. You took my comment literally, I said, I never said it in those terms, look at the second part of my statement.

 

 

 

With your last post now you just made yourself look even worse, do you go off into some childish sarcastic rant every time you lose in what is essentially a debate? No I dont. I was just trying to be funny. Apparantly I'm not too good at that :-k. (Note to self: Try to improve)

 

 

 

FYI I don't have any beliefs, I'm atheist. As am I I just hate when people spout bigoted crap developed from biased media supports When did I do that :-w built on spreading fear and ignorance.

 

[Barihawk]

Israel could of handled this so much better. It's a shame that Israel was so indiscriminate that they managed to attack the UN 3 times.

 

 

 

Only fair. I seem to recall in Lebanon the UN was openly broadcasting Israeli troop movements on open air.

 

 

*not being serious, but Israel is not the only group in the world to make mistakes*

[magekillr]

Question: To what extent is the promotion of freedom or democracy something that you think should be part of the foreign policy and, if it is a part, how would you do it differently than it has been done in the past eight years?

 

 

 

President-elect Obama: Well, I think it needs to be at a central part of our foreign policy. It is who we are. It is one of our best exports, if it is not exported simply down the barrel of a gun.

 

 

 

And one of the mistakes, I think, [that] has been made over the last eight years, and, by the way, I'm not somebody who discounts the sincerity and worthiness of President Bush's concerns about democracy and human rights, and I think a lot of the ways that he spoke about it were very eloquent, but I think the mistake that was made is drawing an equivalence between democracy and elections.

 

 

 

 

 

Elections aren't democracy, as we understand it. They are one facet of a liberal order, as we understand it. And so in a lot of countries, you know, the first question is, if you go back to Roosevelt's four freedoms, the first question is freedom from want and freedom from fear.

 

 

 

If people aren't secure, if people are starving, then elections may or may not address those issues, but they are not a perfect overlay.

 

 

 

And, you know, issues like arbitrary arrest or corruption may or may not be addressed by an election. So I think what we need to be thinking about is, in various countries, and I use my father's home country of Kenya as an example, what we should be spending more time thinking about is, how can we provide them tools so that somebody doesn't get stopped on the street by a police officer and shaken down, or how do we create a system in which you don't have to pay a large bribe in order to get a job or get a phone installed?

 

 

 

And if we ignore those things, then oftentimes an election can just backfire or at least won't deliver for the people the kinds of -- it may raise expectations but not deliver what they're looking for. And, you know, so we will be working with -- you know, one of the things that I have pledged to do in foreign policy is to ramp up our State Department and restore some balance between the civilian and the military side, to -- and right now we have already begun conducting a thorough review of our various aid programs, our democracy programs, how do these all fit together and how do we view it through a lens that it is actually delivering a better life for people on the ground and less obsessed with form, more concerned with substance.

 

 

 

He gets it, he really gets it:

 

 

 

"And if we ignore those things, then oftentimes an election can just backfire or at least won't deliver for the people the kinds of -- it may raise expectations but not deliver what they're looking for."

 

 

 

This is exactly how Hamas came to power. He just understands the Palestinian people's plight.

 

 

 

This statement makes me incredibly hopeful about peace agreements in the Middle East, I just hope he puts his money where his mouth is.

[megakiller32]

Two things- I read an article written in the paper today, in that section where anyone can write, and it was very interesting-

 

This guy was saying how people in London atleast (pro-palestinians) have just used this Gaza Incident to be racist and anti semitic. He said "you don't blame all the chinese for international events in tibet, so why blame all jews for foreign events in Israel?" Which is true, because there has been violence against jews in London atleast.

 

 

 

Anyway, my second thing is I've found some photography on it.

 

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2009/0 ... strip.html

 

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2008/1 ... _gaza.html

[1_man_army]

That sort of thing unfortunately happens in every high profile conflict. In fact there was a lot of anti-Chinese feeling during the Tibet conflict. It's unfortunate that people feel the need to kick out at the entire group that they perceive to be in the wrong, it's too easy to point the finger at entire groups of people because of the actions of a few (the few in this case being the Israeli government).

[magekillr]

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=4752349n#ccmm

 

 

 

60 minutes did a special on Israel's illegal settlements, it's well worth the watch.

[1_man_army]

Did anyone read about Olmert stating that if any Israeli's are convicted of war crimes committed during the conflict that they would receive full state protection against prosecution. It is an absolute scandal, it basically gives soldiers carte blanche to do what they want. If you feel you have conducted a morally virtuous war how can you then sit back and claim that your soldiers are above prosecution if they have violated international law? If Israel felt that they have done nothing wrong during this war why haven't they being open and transparent throughout?

 

 

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7850085.stm

[lordkafei]

Here we go again. And who broke the cease-fire with a roadside bomb?

[1_man_army]

Here we go again. And who broke the cease-fire with a roadside bomb?

 

 

a roadside bomb planted on the Gaza side and set off by remote control, the military said.

 

 

 

What were the Israeli troops doing on the Gaza side after vowing to pull out? Clearly infringing on their own terms. Does that condone killing somebody - no. However, it does show that this isn't quite as clear cut as you portray it.

[lordkafei]

What were the Israeli troops doing on the Gaza side after vowing to pull out? Clearly infringing on their own terms. Does that condone killing somebody - no. However, it does show that this isn't quite as clear cut as you portray it.

 

 

 

They were on the Israeli side:

 

 

 

The soldier was killed Tuesday on Israel's frontier with the Gaza Strip by a roadside bomb planted on the Gaza side and set off by remote control, the military said. Three other soldiers patrolling the border were injured.

 

 

 

Seems it is exactly as clear cut as I portray it.

[1_man_army]

Then I stand corrected, I was just using your link as my source which was either wrong or that I misinterpreted.

[War_Junky_91]

Really I hate how everybody and their deceased grandmothers called for a cease fire from minute one. Diplomacy isn't going to make something of this magnitude go away. I really think this would of all ended better if Isreal would fought until Hamas was forced to remove itself from the Gaza Strip.

[magekillr]

So...

 

 

 

Before I put this out here, let me just lol my [wagon] off at you Israeli sympathizers. Second, let me just say that I was right in saying that Israel is led by terrorists, as is Palestine, and they work hand in hand to deaths of their own citizens. However, I didn't know it went THIS deep:

 

 

 

The office of Prime Minister Ehud Olmert admitted on Wednesday that it is allowing the transfer of hundreds of millions of shekels to the Hamas government in the Gaza Strip every month.

 

 

 

Most of the funds enter Gaza in currency exchanges for the dollars and euros Hamas smuggles into the territory following fund-raising trips to Iran and other supportive Middle East regimes.

 

 

 

In a letter to the Prime Minister's Office earlier in the week, the Shurat Hadin Israel Law Center warned that the government was actively aiding the perpetuation of Hamas rule in Gaza, despite its own stated policies.

 

 

 

Shurat Hadin director Nitsana Darshan-Leitner explained that without the influx of Israeli shekels, the currency of record in Gaza, Hamas would be financially unable to rule. By allowing the entry of shekels into Gaza, Darshan-Leitner noted that Israel is breaching an economic embargo of Gaza by Western powers that Israel itself insisted upon, and is helping a terrorist organization to launder money, a direct violation of the Terror-Funding Act of 2005.

 

 

 

Worse, said Darshan-Leitner, is the fact that " the Israeli government's policy of transferring shekels is assisting the Hamas terrorists with their missile attacks on the Negev communities."

 

 

 

In response, Olmert's office wrote that "due to conclusions that there is an Israeli interest that the transfer of funds continue, a decision was made to continue to transfer certain sums of money to the Gaza Strip."

 

 

 

Shurat Hadin has threatened to sue the government both in local and international courts if the transfer of funds does not cease.

 

 

 

http://www.israeltoday.co.il/default.as ... &nid=16447

 

 

 

edit: Oh, and I don't know why this wasn't brought up before, but it was fairly well known that Israel backed Hamas back in the day when they were at odds with the PLO/Fatah:

 

 

 

The French investigative newspaper Le Canard enchaîné claimed that Shin Bet had also supported Hamas as a counterweight to the PLO and Fatah. It speculated that this was an attempt to give "a religious slant to the conflict, in order to make the West believe that the conflict was between Jews and Muslims", perhaps in order to support the controversial thesis of a "clash of civilizations".

 

 

 

Not really that much of a surprise now that I think about it.

[RichieMcD]

Really I hate how everybody and their deceased grandmothers called for a cease fire from minute one. Diplomacy isn't going to make something of this magnitude go away. I really think this would of all ended better if Isreal would fought until Hamas was forced to remove itself from the Gaza Strip.

 

 

 

While the whole world sits by and watches the body bags containing civilians slowly build up? Ingenious idea. It would probably come about much quicker if Israel stopped occupying land never given to them which is rightfully belonging to the Arabians, most notably Palestinians.

[SHIPPOU]

Imagine if a country next door to you fired 3 missiles a day average at you.

 

 

 

Read the back story behind this, before going "Poor Hamas" and siding with the media.

[SHIPPOU]

Really I hate how everybody and their deceased grandmothers called for a cease fire from minute one. Diplomacy isn't going to make something of this magnitude go away. I really think this would of all ended better if Isreal would fought until Hamas was forced to remove itself from the Gaza Strip.

 

 

 

While the whole world sits by and watches the body bags containing civilians slowly build up? Ingenious idea. It would probably come about much quicker if Israel stopped occupying land never given to them which is rightfully belonging to the Arabians, most notably Palestinians.

 

 

 

Read your history books, not watch the TV. Gaza was used as a launching point for 3 wars with Israel before they took it in the 60's.

[magekillr]

Imagine if a country next door to you fired 3 missiles a day average at you.

 

 

 

Read the back story behind this, before going "Poor Hamas" and siding with the media.

 

 

 

I'm more versed on this subject than you are, I'm sure. I'm not going, "Poor Hamas", I'm going, "Poor civilians". "Siding with the media". What media? The American media? PLEASE! The American media sucks Israel's [bleep] just as much as our politicians.

 

 

 

I couldn't believe 60 minutes did a special on it.

 

 

 

And as much as I hate to say it, Obama's got a lot of work to do when it comes to his rhetoric and his actions with foreign policy. This is a good outline, although I'm not entirely convinced letting the Taliban have 100% full fledged control over the region of Afghanistan is the right course of action:

 

 

 

http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2009/02/t ... -report-4/

 

 

 

edit: I should say that even though this is an extremely idealistic, simplistic, and anti-American way of putting things, the man does have some points. I think some of the demands being made are ridiculous, but others hold merit.

[Kranky9876]

Imagine if a country next door to you fired 3 missiles a day average at you.

 

 

 

Read the back story behind this, before going "Poor Hamas" and siding with the media.

 

 

 

 

 

Wasn't it about 60 misssiles a day avarage?

 

and people claiming Israel kills so many innoncent we'll i don't know if you already heard this

 

but Hamas places its weapons under the houses of civilians just so that people will got hate israel when they blow up those buildings.

 

 

 

And other palestinian people (women and childrey in particulary) go live in buildings of hamas to server their ''greater goal'' instead of blowing themself up they let israel do it and then hamas can say things like omg they killed another 20 children.

 

 

 

(this was what I heard at the news)

 

And i'm not trying to say that what israel does is good but some people here really say the dumbest things.

[RichieMcD]

Imagine if a country next door to you fired 3 missiles a day average at you.

 

 

 

Read the back story behind this, before going "Poor Hamas" and siding with the media.

 

 

 

I'm not siding with Hamas at all, I disagree with what they're doing and their ethics. Hamas are terrorists, nothing more but Israels reaction is that of terrorists as well under the mask of a proportionate reaction. If a country is used as a military stronghold by terrorists does that make it the rightful land of the people it's attacking? Taking that into account then Germany belongs to the Jews, Middle East is owned by America and visa versa while Britain owns Northern Ireland, none of which are true except for the last one which is still highly debatable.

 

 

 

I don't condone Hamas's actions, but there's a huge difference in the proportions of terrorist attacks and self-defense by a country. Right now I'd put the IDF and Hamas on the same level, inhumane terrorists.