anim7 Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Israel, please, I beg of you, end the brutality and murder of civilians! When will you stop! Again: When they agree to stop shooting rockets at us. Oh goody, now I get to post another article to make your government look even more terrorist than they already are: Excerpt: WASHINGTON, Jan 9 (IPS) - Contrary to Israel's argument that it was forced to launch its air and ground offensive against Gaza in order to stop the firing of rockets into its territory, Hamas proposed in mid-December to return to the original Hamas-Israel ceasefire arrangement, according to a U.S.-based source who has been briefed on the proposal. http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=45350 The fact that you don't care about people dying, is just...wow. I can't even describe it. another nail, head moment. \ anyway, israel needs to understand that fighting sparks (rocket attacks) with fire is just creating a wave of anti-israeli islamic extremists. everytime you hear the death toll on the Palestinian side, it incites more violence and hatred from israel's neighbors. it is just socially idiotic to be situated around arabs and encourage them to kill you. call for another cease-fire...it is the bandage that is needed in gaza now. 100% F2P85 Mining achieved on Dec 4, 200785 Smithing achieved on May 28, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freakyhair Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 If you want to stop getting bombed day after day then agree to hamas' terms. Hamas are freedom fighters, nto terrorists and Israel are oppresors. It probaly wasn't like that to start of with but Israel has stolen their land and choked their community. What Israel is doing is sick What Hamas is doing is sick Israel could solve it. By Hamas backing down they will eventually be killed for opposing ilegal settlements on their land and ilegal expansion of already overly large Israeli territory. Allahu Akbar!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megakiller32 Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 If you want to stop getting bombed day after day then agree to hamas' terms. Hamas are freedom fighters, nto terrorists and Israel are oppresors. It probaly wasn't like that to start of with but Israel has stolen their land and choked their community. What Israel is doing is sick What Hamas is doing is sick Israel could solve it. By Hamas backing down they will eventually be killed for opposing ilegal settlements on their land and ilegal expansion of already overly large Israeli territory. Allahu Akbar!!!!!! Yes, lets all agree to Hamas' terms of pushing the israelis into the sea and killing all the jews on the planet. And you just made yourself look like a bloody pillock by putting Allahu Akbar at then end. Quit Runescape 30th May 2006.Thanks to Hawkxs for my signature :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginger_Warrior Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Yes, lets all agree to Hamas' terms of pushing the israelis into the sea and killing all the jews on the planet. And you just made yourself look like a bloody pillock by putting Allahu Akbar at then end. That was a comment made in Hamas' constitution 20 years ago. By that reckoning, we should all turn against Russia in case they turn us soviet. Hamas politicians were coming on TV no less than a year ago saying a two-state solution does exist if Israel agrees to Palestine's sovereignty and the '67 borders agreement originally drawn up by the UN. This whole "Hamas wants to drive the Jews into the sea" crap is exactly that. | Favourite Game Music | Last.fm | HYT Friend Chat Rules | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamMonkey0 Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 This incident seems to be a more violent version of something like the Quebec soveinty issue in my country: the Quebcois (Hamas) wants independance from Canada (Isreal). In Quebec it's more of a diplomatic/political attempt, but in Gaza it's more a militarist attempt. From what I've been told in my history class, the palestinians are egyptians, or something similar to that. Don't know if it's true or not... Anyway, I think if Gaza/Hamas wants independance from Isreal then they should try other means, like diplomacy. This way no one gets hurt and each side can just work it out through talks. Saves money and people too . ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenticular_J Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Well, technically, Palestine's sovereignty has been accepted by most of the world. But with the near-constant wars and occupations, it's tough to define true borders in that area. Most Palestinians are of Arabic or Bedouin descent. And there's kinda a lot of history that's formed these troubles. Considering this general area played a major part in the rise and fall of dozens of civilizations, the forming of three of the largest religions in the world (which all developed off of each other), as well as not too long ago being revealed to have ever so much black gold in their soil ... Whole lotta [cabbage]. catch it now so you can like it before it went so mainstream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordkafei Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Israel, please, I beg of you, end the brutality and murder of civilians! When will you stop! Again: When they agree to stop shooting rockets at us. Why should civilians have to die for the actions of a terrorist group? ... Because that's the way terrorists want it. Whether it is Israeli civilians dying or Palestinians dying makes no difference to Hamas. They have taken it upon themselves to make "the cause" more important than any civilian life. I hope Israel wipes Hamas out. Maybe then the next generation of Palestinians will be able to look back at what didn't work for them and choose a better path in the future. That was a comment made in Hamas' constitution 20 years ago. If it's just insignificant trash talk from 20 years ago, then why is Hamas so intransigent about removing it? It's obviously significant to Hamas, don't you think? PvP is not for meIn the 3rd Year of the BoycottReal-world money saved since FT/W: Hundreds of DollarsReal-world time saved since FT/W: Thousands of Hours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginger_Warrior Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 That was a comment made in Hamas' constitution 20 years ago. If it's just insignificant trash talk from 20 years ago, then why is Hamas so intransigent about removing it? It's obviously significant to Hamas, don't you think? Let's get this clear: Hamas hate Israel. We all know that. But people such as yourself are heading down a dangerous road here. In the post-9/11 world, it's now become commonplace for people to just brand groups they think are inconvenient as 'terrorists', and thus argue they should be wiped from the face of the Earth because of it, without even contemplating the possibility that their grievances may actually be reasonable. Yes, the rocket attacks are indiscriminate and therefore unjustifiable, but I can barely relate to the effect that the Israeli blockade on the Gaza Strip has had on both the Palestinian people and its economy. You can't argue that one of Palestine's main political parties is launching an attack on Israel, and then turn a blind eye to the purposeful suffering inflicted on the Gaza Strip by Israel. Hamas have laid down their conditions for a two-state solution. Frankly, I don't find their demands all that unreasonable, given it was land that was stolen from them during the Arab-Israeli. There, I said it. I accept a terrorist group's grievances are legitimate. Now what you gonna say? | Favourite Game Music | Last.fm | HYT Friend Chat Rules | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenticular_J Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 For some reason I doubt that even if a peace did come by, Hamas would stop shooting. Happened, what six or seven times in the past? A bit fuzzy on the cease-fires in general, not to mention their breakings. catch it now so you can like it before it went so mainstream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordkafei Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Hamas have laid down their conditions for a two-state solution. Frankly, I don't find their demands all that unreasonable, given it was land that was stolen from them during the Arab-Israeli. There, I said it. I accept a terrorist group's grievances are legitimate. Now what you gonna say? There can be no two-state solution as long as one of the states advocates the obliteration of the other. "Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it." "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors." No matter how many different ways you try to brush these words off as insignificant or dated, they are Hamas' own words and until they address this any proposals from Hamas are not going to be taken seriously. PvP is not for meIn the 3rd Year of the BoycottReal-world money saved since FT/W: Hundreds of DollarsReal-world time saved since FT/W: Thousands of Hours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magekillr Posted January 12, 2009 Author Share Posted January 12, 2009 Lord, apparently you're forgetting something: when you solve the grievances of the civilians, Hamas and all other terrorist organizations cease to exist because they don't have support, or recruitment. There can be no two-state solution as long as one of the states advocates the obliteration of the other. Like with Israel seeking to "obliterate" Hamas? It's a complicated situation, but then it's not really. If Israel wants to get Hamas out of power, they're going about it in the wrong way. Israel needs to stop its expansion of illegal settlements in the West Bank, and Fatah needs to end its corruption and start helping the citizens of Palestine instead of hoarding the money for themselves (cause you know, 90% of Hamas's funds go towards helping civilians. You know this, right? The Palestinian people don't elect governments that seek to end Israel, they elect the groups that help them the most, and Hamas has helped them far more than Fatah). If this happens, Fatah will be elected in a landslide victory, and Hamas will be out of power. With Hamas out of power and Fatah helping the citizens, organizations like Hamas begin to disappear because the cries of the citizens are being met. Then, Fatah and Israel can come together and draw a map to that which is similar to the original UN designations back in 1949. It can happen, if Fatah ends its corruption, and if Israel stops its settlements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordkafei Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Lord, apparently you're forgetting something: when you solve the grievances of the civilians, Hamas and all other terrorist organizations cease to exist because they don't have support, or recruitment. ... I don't agree at all about that - Hamas' beef with Israel is ideological and always has been. They don't acknowledge the right of Israel to exist as a sovereign nation. Until they do, nothing will change. They could discover oil in Gaza, make every Palestinian as rich as the Saudis and the only change would be that Hamas would buy larger armaments. PvP is not for meIn the 3rd Year of the BoycottReal-world money saved since FT/W: Hundreds of DollarsReal-world time saved since FT/W: Thousands of Hours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magekillr Posted January 12, 2009 Author Share Posted January 12, 2009 Lord, apparently you're forgetting something: when you solve the grievances of the civilians, Hamas and all other terrorist organizations cease to exist because they don't have support, or recruitment. ... I don't agree at all about that - Hamas' beef with Israel is ideological and always has been. They don't acknowledge the right of Israel to exist as a sovereign nation. Until they do, nothing will change. They could discover oil in Gaza, make every Palestinian as rich as the Saudis and the only change would be that Hamas would buy larger armaments. K, that's Hamas. What does Hamas have to do with the citizens of Palestine? They'll be gone when the citizens' needs are met by a non-corrupt Fatah, which used to be the most popular party in Palestine until they were seeded with corruption. Were you old enough to vote in this 2008 election (assuming you're American)? What was your most important issue? The majority of Americans had the economy on their mind before Iran, and before Iraq, and before any other foreign policy. Do you think the Palestinian people are any different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginger_Warrior Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Hamas have laid down their conditions for a two-state solution. Frankly, I don't find their demands all that unreasonable, given it was land that was stolen from them during the Arab-Israeli. There, I said it. I accept a terrorist group's grievances are legitimate. Now what you gonna say? There can be no two-state solution as long as one of the states advocates the obliteration of the other. Even while their leaders have openly come out and said they'd accept a two-state solution? Whether or not Israel agrees with that solution is another matter. It would seem unfair to compare a terrorist group in the modern day to its past, and presume the group still stands for exactly the same things. 100 years ago, Sinn Fein said there could be no two-state solution in Ireland; now they're actively involved in power-sharing in Belfast of all places. Of course, the irony is, a lot of the IRA's funding back then came from Americans. Amazing how its stance on terrorism suddenly changed after WWII, isn't it? I don't agree at all about that - Hamas' beef with Israel is ideological and always has been. They don't acknowledge the right of Israel to exist as a sovereign nation. Until they do, nothing will change. They could discover oil in Gaza, make every Palestinian as rich as the Saudis and the only change would be that Hamas would buy larger armaments. And what of Israel accepting Palestine's right to sovereignty? You seemed to tactically avoid my questions about the blockade on Gaza. The bolded bit made me sigh in despair, because it shows your complete lack of knowledge. These aren't exactly cruise missiles they're firing into Israel. Hamas barely needs any funding to carry out its attacks. All it needs is enough people alienated against Israel in the Gaza Strip willing to sign themselves up for the cause. Hence why Israel's actions are not only homicidal, they're also self-damaging in the long run. | Favourite Game Music | Last.fm | HYT Friend Chat Rules | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matok Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Yes, lets all agree to Hamas' terms of pushing the israelis into the sea and killing all the jews on the planet... That was a comment made in Hamas' constitution 20 years ago.... This whole "Hamas wants to drive the Jews into the sea" crap is exactly that. o man.. let me start by reminding you and all other fresh "peace activists" around here who is the Hamas. List of Hamas suicide attacks Read it,especially the "Death Toll" and imagine how people,civilians,plain ordinary people , who were going to work, drinking in a bar, sitting in a restaurant or having a fest meal..then suddelnly...the (inevitable) Alla-Akbar followed with a boooooommmm... Where were all you peace-activests back then ?o..i am sorry..you were "not agreeing with what Hamas is doing"... Yes, we israelis hate the Hamas, and they did quite a job earning this hatred. Did you know that some of these attacks were carried during the 1993-94 Rabin/Arafat peace negotiations?no, it wasn't a coincidence.. So please, stop with the peace-loving Hamas crap...as i said earlier, you dont know enough about this conflict and i am not just saying this, you simply dont know enough about this conflict. If the Hamas attacks were directed at the IDF then, in a way, i would have accept it as a legitimate resistance actions, but through all of its existence the Hamas primary targets were mostly civilians and thats terrorism,not resistance. They could discover oil in Gaza, make every Palestinian as rich as the Saudis and the only change would be that Hamas would buy larger armaments. I hope not,i believe that there will only be peace here when the palestinians will have more to loose then gain by starting another conlict. One last note, death of a child,every child,is the most horrible thing in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munkis Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 hamas is extremly voilant but in geneve convention and un stuff all occupied people have the right to resist whitout being "terrorists" so hams is extremly voilent but they aint terrorists they are occupied citizens that is resisting the occupation power isreal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenticular_J Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Israel wasn't even occupying them when they broke the latest cease-fire. Counting the border checkpoints as an occupation is ridiculous. catch it now so you can like it before it went so mainstream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munkis Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Israel wasn't even occupying them when they broke the latest cease-fire. Counting the border checkpoints as an occupation is ridiculous. boarder checkpoints isent indeed but the airspace and their water was an occupation then also remind that gaza isent a countrie most of palestine in the west bank is still occupied Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obfuscator Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Israel wasn't even occupying them when they broke the latest cease-fire. Counting the border checkpoints as an occupation is ridiculous. boarder checkpoints isent indeed but the airspace and their water was an occupation then also remind that gaza isent a countrie most of palestine in the west bank is still occupied Israel has been very clear on their intentions. They will continue to attack/occupy as long as the attacks against their innocent civilians continue. The onus is now on the Palestinian people to stop. "It's not a rest for me, it's a rest for the weights." - Dom Mazzetti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magekillr Posted January 12, 2009 Author Share Posted January 12, 2009 Who broke the cease-fire again? Look, Ginger and I aren't defending Hamas's attacks, but stop acting like Israel is some sweet dove that is helpless. This is all about the Kadima party's poll numbers :wall: I mean, crickey, it was just released in the press that Israel wanted Bush in early 2008 to help them attack Iran, THREE times. Had Rumsfeld been in charge instead of Gates, we probably would have, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginger_Warrior Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Just an off-topic side note, but since the issue of terrorism largely surrounds this debate I think it's quite interesting. Here is a word cloud of all the words President Bush used during his State of Union addresses, from 2001-08. The cloud doesn't really concern me. We all know that the War on Terror has been the mantra of Bush's time in office. What amazes me is how vaguely defined the term 'terrorism' is in US politics, and how that has spilt out to the wider world when discussing terrorist groups. Look at the "Changing issues" section, with the war on terror. Aside from the term 'Iraq' (for obvious reasons), the two most popular terms are 'terror' and 'enemy'. Indeed, two years after the war in Iraq started, Bush used the term 'Al Qaeda' only two times, whilst using the term 'terror' twenty seven times. This use of umbrella terms makes it easier I suppose for Bush to justify the coalition's operations in the Middle-East, and supporting Israel in its fight against Hamas and Hezbollah. For context, given the state of the current economy and where the roots of the financial crisis lie, he used the term 'housing' not even once during that same State of Union address (2005). Personally, I find it scary the world's most vibrant and successful democracy seemingly falls so easily to scaremongering and fear, and romanticised, idealogical hope. | Favourite Game Music | Last.fm | HYT Friend Chat Rules | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichieMcD Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Israel wasn't even occupying them when they broke the latest cease-fire. Counting the border checkpoints as an occupation is ridiculous. boarder checkpoints isent indeed but the airspace and their water was an occupation then also remind that gaza isent a countrie most of palestine in the west bank is still occupied Israel has been very clear on their intentions. They will continue to attack/occupy as long as the attacks against their innocent civilians continue. The onus is now on the Palestinian people to stop. That's pure stupidity then by Israel. Many of the Palestinian people are still extremely bitter about what Israel did in the past and what it is currently doing. The attacks definitely wont stop soon until Israel leaves. How can they expect the attacks to stop when they attack innocent civilians quite oftenly while attacking Hamas and occupy foreign lands? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matok Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Who broke the cease-fire again? "15 rockets were launched during the ceasefire" (taken from the nice,"very objective", link you send). So,who broke the cease-fire again? "There were not the Hamas who launched those rockets" - then who did?o, i am sorry it was probably the Islamic Jihad. Btw,notice how they cut the movie in the middle of Regev's answer. And maybe there was a tunnel they were digging there? maybe they were trying to grab another Gilad Shailt? frankly, i dont know the answer either but i dont come up with false accusations as you do. Sometimes, half trues are worse then lies, remember that. I mean, crickey, it was just released in the press that Israel wanted Bush in early 2008 to help them attack Iran, THREE times. Had Rumsfeld been in charge instead of Gates, we probably would have, too. Again,the blood thirsty israelis want to bomb the whole middle-east,thats what you were aiming at isn't it? *Edit* I also read about it few days ago ,still,i believe Israel is still far from attacking Iran,and i do hope this day will never come. But lets not open a new issue here,because the way i see it, next thing you know you gonna pull out another "objective" link showing that the Iranians also have rights on Israel lands and ahmadinejad's mother is actually from Jafa..thats what you do in this thread isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginger_Warrior Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 No, what we do on this thread is denounce the killing of over 900 people in a needless war which after its 17th day has yet to yield any results for either belligerent. | Favourite Game Music | Last.fm | HYT Friend Chat Rules | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1_man_army Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I mean, crickey, it was just released in the press that Israel wanted Bush in early 2008 to help them attack Iran, THREE times. Had Rumsfeld been in charge instead of Gates, we probably would have, too. Again,the blood thirsty israelis want to bomb the whole middle-east,thats what you were aiming at isn't it? No but it does support the notion that Kadima has been looking for a war in time for the election. He who learns must suffer, and, even in our sleep, pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart,and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus (525 BC - 456 BC) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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