The Gaza Strip

[Dizzle229]

I think magekillr is on the money here. Don't assume that they will think logically.

[dangeresque]

No wonder you like that article, summing it up, the line which says

 

The Isreali hawks love the current conflict, and for all of their facades, don't care one bit about any Palestinian civilian that dies.

 

 

 

That, is [cabbage]. As we've said before, Israel are avoiding Civillian casualties as much as possible, but it's impossible in a space like Gaza, but more to the point, would Hamas in thier mindset avoid civillian casualties if they had the firepower?

 

The answer would be no, primarily because they want "Wipe the zionist entity from the face of the earth"

 

 

 

No they're not. If an area is that densely populated, you do NOT air-raid them. It's true mate, neither government cares for their own citizens and wants to use the situation for political power. Look at the poll numbers...

 

 

Sending in a full out ground force would cause just as much civilian damage. A war from the air is the best way to go about it. The smart bombs they have nowadays are amazingly accurate, the problem is that when they hit the building there is often some passersby standing near it. Unfortunate yes, but if Israel launched a full out ground campaign things would be far, far more messy should Hamas decide to retaliate.

 

 

 

I think that Isreal should open roads out of Gaza (not ones leading into Israel), but put heavy checkpoints there to make sure the wrong things and wrong people aren't getting through, although they are bound to I'm sure but for the greater good of the people they should do it.

 

 

 

Maybe they should even have a couple week cease fire or something to shuttle the civilians out of Gaza...to where I have no clue to be honest. But anyways once the civilians are out the Israeli's can have at it with Hamas and whoever else. Don't leave until the job's done, just don't let civilians get in the way of the job. And I know that Israel is doing what it can to get civilians out while trying to win a war. No matter what any of you say about "Israel targetting civilians", they aren't, nobody in war ever does and it is completely absurd and stupid to say that they are.

 

 

 

And to those who say that Hamas aren't using civilians as shields, they are. There is enough open space, (that granted is farmland that I'm sure is owned by someone, but that could probably easily be acquired) to build a few military instillation that are away from civilians. Yes the cities are close, but they're not in the cities. Obviously it's unavoidable to have military instillations in cities but still, there is enough space to build out of them. And they are using this tactic because basically, it is all they have. Think, they don't even have near the capability to take on Israel full on in a war, so they use the civilians as shields so that the Israeli's will be hesitant to bomb, and for the fact that alot of people in the west will be against it, as well as Muslims across the world. To be honest it's a cowardly, and despiteful tactic, but a damn smart one.

 

 

 

edit: And saying that Israel shouldn't have attacked because it will only make Hamas stronger isn't a reason to let Hamas keep bombarding them with missles. Hamas needed to be stopped, they can do the whole political thing and what-not, and I have no problem what-so-ever with them having a military wing, I mean everyone needs a military. However them launching missles completely nixes their right to exist in my mind. Hamas may, and probably will grow stronger politically however, but militarily I highly doubt it (as long as this conflict is going on that is).

[1_man_army]

 

 

 

 

 

And to those who say that Hamas aren't using civilians as shields, they are. There is enough open space, (that granted is farmland that I'm sure is owned by someone, but that could probably easily be acquired) to build a few military instillation that are away from civilians. Yes the cities are close, but they're not in the cities. Obviously it's unavoidable to have military instillations in cities but still, there is enough space to build out of them. And they are using this tactic because basically, it is all they have. Think, they don't even have near the capability to take on Israel full on in a war, so they use the civilians as shields so that the Israeli's will be hesitant to bomb, and for the fact that alot of people in the west will be against it, as well as Muslims across the world. To be honest it's a cowardly, and despiteful tactic, but a damn smart one.

 

 

 

There isn't enough space, as has been said time and time again in this thread Gaza is extremely densely populated. Also the militants live in Gaza they go back there after firing rockets as that is where there homes are(as is explained in the video that was posted by Magekillr) to expect them to stand and wave Israeli jets to fire upon them is a fantasy, that still doesn't mean they're using civilian shields. That is not to say I agree with attacks on Israeli civilians, it is just the truth of the matter.

[dangeresque]

 

 

 

 

 

And to those who say that Hamas aren't using civilians as shields, they are. There is enough open space, (that granted is farmland that I'm sure is owned by someone, but that could probably easily be acquired) to build a few military instillation that are away from civilians. Yes the cities are close, but they're not in the cities. Obviously it's unavoidable to have military instillations in cities but still, there is enough space to build out of them. And they are using this tactic because basically, it is all they have. Think, they don't even have near the capability to take on Israel full on in a war, so they use the civilians as shields so that the Israeli's will be hesitant to bomb, and for the fact that alot of people in the west will be against it, as well as Muslims across the world. To be honest it's a cowardly, and despiteful tactic, but a damn smart one.

 

 

 

There isn't enough space, as has been said time and time again in this thread Gaza is extremely densely populated. Also the militants live in Gaza they go back there after firing rockets as that is where there homes are(as is explained in the video that was posted by Magekillr) to expect them to stand and wave Israeli jets to fire upon them is a fantasy, that still doesn't mean they're using civilian shields. That is not to say I agree with attacks on Israeli civilians, it is just the truth of the matter.

 

 

 

I looked on Google Earth before I posted that, there is space. Granted, there is not very much, but there is enough. Unless they built a city there after they took that satellite pic :-#.

[Matok]

1_man & magekillr,what amazes me about your anti-human-shield argument ("nowhere to run") is that you put a side the more fundamental issue here.

 

Why the Hamas,which is naturally familier with the area and knows that innocents might be killed, start launching missles in the first place?

 

Let me answer this simple question: Untill now it was a win-win situation for the Hamas.

 

-Lets launch some rockets,

 

-If Israel doesn't strike back ==> great,we just attacked Israel civilians and the weak Zionist entity didn't respond.Lets continue...

 

-If Israel strikes back ==> bring on Al Jazeera and show the world what the brutal Israeli force is doing to our citizens.Lets continue...

 

 

 

Its amazing how in each Anti-Israeli post (including in this video) there will always be the:

 

"not that we agree with what Hamas is doing" as a side remark.

 

But this is the main issue here people, what the Hamas is doing.

 

If the Hamas didn't "wire" the all Gaza strip with tunnels and explosives, if the Hamas didn't use the last 2 years of Tahadiya for increasing its military force in quantities and quility,then all of this [cabbage] wouldn't happen.

 

 

 

Its amazing how when its comes to Hamas the western world looks at it in a more forgiving way,

 

as if they are talking about problematic, mentally challenged, kids:

 

"they are the Hamas, they are lunatic,fanatic,crazy arabs,we dont expect much of them" .

 

"But you Israelis, you claim to be a western(and moral) democracy...your nation been through the holocaust....you should know better"

 

 

 

Dont underestimate the Hamas, they are not a bunch of primitive lunatic muslims, they are a well orginized political party with a well planned agenda.

 

But this time their plans didn't workout the way they thought they will...(Nassralla 2006 anyone?)

 

 

 

One last note to those who claim Israel blind attack civialins or not doing their best to avoid hurting them.

 

If that was the case you wouldn't be be facing ~500 casualties, but 20,30 or even 40 times more.

 

As strange as it sounds at times like this,we still value human lives more than anything else.

[Kriegsmier]

 

If Israel is preventing civilian casualties as much as possible, why have they closed Gaza's north-south road between Gaza City and the south? That's clearly stopping civilians from escaping.

 

Yes. Let's just let the Hamas men peacefully walk out.

 

 

 

Exactly. The same thing is going on in Afghanistan. Same thing happened in Vietnam. Who is who? Do they wear name tags that tells you who they are and who they support? No they don't. They could easily be a poor, homeless, helpless civilian from Gaza to get across the border, only to come back later and try and blow someone up as the true Hamas soldier they are. Its a catch 22 situation. You'd love nothing more then to help the civilians out, but can't because you never know who is working for who. With a little more time and effort with checkpoints and border crossings you could control it to a point but you can never erase the fact that that could be a Hamas soldier you just let cross over. The whole situation is almost a no win thing. You want to help the "good guys", which i term being US Allies and a non terroristic organization like Hamas, but at the same time you have these civilians of the "bad guys" caught in the cross fire.

 

 

 

With that being said do i think targeting hospitals and such is a good thing? No by no means. Thats terrible. In a shock an awe type of invasion like the US commonly uses stuff like this happens. Though not directly they do suffer damage. But in a slower ground operation such as Israel is putting on, they could do something about this. They could provide aide. To me the invading military has a diplomatic responsibility to care for those injured though not involved. And even to those involved to a certain degree. Its a human and moral responsibility. This is part of the reason i feel that talking won't do ANYTHING. Look at these people. There is no stopping them, both sides are like a crazed pit bull with nothing else on its mind other then the enemy. Talking doesn't help these people. Sad to say but maybe we should get all the civilians out and let them shoot it out.

 

 

 

It'd be nice to think that everyone out there is like the US or UK, and doesn't specifically target civilians when they become involved in a conflict but that is not the case, contrary to what people might think. This is a secondary concern for a lot of military's out there.

[Ginger_Warrior]

Its amazing how in each Anti-Israeli post (including in this video) there will always be the:

 

"not that we agree with what Hamas is doing" as a side remark.

 

But this is the main issue here people, what the Hamas is doing.

 

If the Hamas didn't "wire" the all Gaza strip with tunnels and explosives, if the Hamas didn't use the last 2 years of Tahadiya for increasing its military force in quantities and quility,then all of this [cabbage] wouldn't happen.

 

a) So... you're allowed to spend bucket loads of US aid on increasing the strength of your military, but Hamas aren't? Do you want to prove the stereotype that Israel wants to control Palestine entirely any more than you currently are?

 

B) If we're going to quote history, at least give a balanced response. You make it sound like you were there first and the big, bad Hamas didn't like it, so they started launching attacks. Who was it that took twice as much land as it was initially granted during the Six Day war? Who was it that sliced an extra 10% of the West Bank when it built a separation wall? Who has continuously set up a blockade on the Gaza Strip and meddled in its internal affairs? Who continues to control a foreign sovereignty's air and sea space?

 

 

 

I can't condone violence, especially against civilians, but if I were Palestinian, I'd feel hard done by.

 

 

 

"But you Israelis, you claim to be a western(and moral) democracy...your nation been through the holocaust....you should know better"

 

It should do. I'd advise people to read up on the brutal acts of aggression from the supposedly "moral" and democratic British Empire on the Irish during the first twenty years of the 20th Century. One feature is noticeable now as it was then: those acts of aggression got Britain nowhere in solving the problem, indeed, it actually made it worse by alienating the population against them, whilst at the same time giving the Irish nationalists some sort of legitimacy to their grievances.

 

 

 

All Israel is doing is making a peaceful negotiation even less likely than it was before, as Arabs looking from the sidelines become even more sympathetic towards Palestine.

 

 

 

Dont underestimate the Hamas, they are not a bunch of primitive lunatic muslims, they are a well orginized political party with a well planned agenda.

 

A political party the Palestinians voted into power. That's the problem with democracy, and it was democracy you were calling for when Arafat was in control.

 

 

 

I wasn't aware it was now acceptable to attack a fair democracy because you don't like its leading party.

 

 

 

One last note to those who claim Israel blind attack civialins or not doing their best to avoid hurting them.

 

If that was the case you wouldn't be be facing ~500 casualties, but 20,30 or even 40 times more.

 

As strange as it sounds at times like this,we still value human lives more than anything else.

 

Amnesty International has called for fighting from both sides to stop. The International Committee of the Red Cross has warned Israel to stop its attacks because hospitals are being overrun. It has also said Israel's purposeful attempt to prevent aid getting into Gaza is unacceptable, and the UN has warned of a humanitarian crisis. Yet Israel still continues the assault, in full knowledge the campaign is not stopping the rocket attacks against them.

 

 

 

How is that avoiding civilian casualties? You all seem to be saying "Israel is avoiding casualties" as though it's an established fact.

[Matok]

Do you want to prove the stereotype that Israel wants to control Palestine entirely any more than you currently are?

 

Where exactly did i said that?

 

Believe me, a part for some lunatic from our side (Beni Begin),most of us Israelis dont want to control anything.2 lands for 2 nations thats what i preach.

 

 

 

Who was it that took twice as much land as it was initially granted during the Six Day war? Who was it that sliced an extra 10% of the West Bank when it built a separation wall?

 

You keep treating the Arabs as one block.The war was between Israel and Egypt,Syria, and Jordan.The west bank was under Jordan control and Gaza under Egypt control.

 

There was no such thing as "the palestinian nation" before 1967 so naturally we were not fighting them back then.

 

 

I wasn't aware it was now acceptable to attack a fair democracy because you don't like its leading party.

 

 

Leading party which her primary target,as written in its convention, is to eliminate us.

 

Not peace,not justice solution....demolition.

 

I hate this phrase but...Israel does have the right to defend itself.

 

 

 

[LaserDude333]

Most of you probably don't know this, but my cousin is there, and every time a few minutes before they bomb a house they grab the children in the house, take them out and protect them. Things their parents certainly don't do.

 

And they do try to help the injured, but why would you see that on the news? It's Al-Jazeera.

[megakiller32]

Most of you probably don't know this, but my cousin is there, and every time a few minutes before they bomb a house they grab the children in the house, take them out and protect them. Things their parents certainly don't do.

 

And they do try to help the injured, but why would you see that on the news? It's Al-Jazeera.

 

 

 

If you use Al-Jazeera as your news source, your a [bleep]ing dunce who shouldn't be allowed a view on the situation.

[BlueLancer]

Most of you probably don't know this, but my cousin is there, and every time a few minutes before they bomb a house they grab the children in the house, take them out and protect them. Things their parents certainly don't do.

 

And they do try to help the injured, but why would you see that on the news? It's Al-Jazeera.

 

 

 

If you use Al-Jazeera as your news source, your a [bleep] dunce who shouldn't be allowed a view on the situation.

 

 

 

You frankly have no idea what you're talking about ... Al Jazeera has won multiple awards for neutral coverage of sensitive subjects including commendations by Index on Censorship [1] for "courage in circumventing censorship and contributing to the free exchange of information in the Arab world."

 

 

 

It's coverage of the Iraq invasion in 2003 also inspired a documentary film called "Control Room" [2] which gained numerous international awards [3]

 

 

 

Control Room is a 2004 documentary film about Al Jazeera and its relations with the US Central Command (CENTCOM), as well as the other news organizations that covered the 2003 invasion of Iraq.

 

 

 

It also directly competes with services such as CNN and BBC... It's not some small-time 'propaganda' station, nearly 1/6th of the world population relies on it for daily news.

[RichieMcD]

Most of you probably don't know this, but my cousin is there, and every time a few minutes before they bomb a house they grab the children in the house, take them out and protect them. Things their parents certainly don't do.

 

And they do try to help the injured, but why would you see that on the news? It's Al-Jazeera.

 

 

 

If you use Al-Jazeera as your news source, your a [bleep] dunce who shouldn't be allowed a view on the situation.

 

 

 

Ignorance is bliss. You don't even know what you're talking about do you?

[LaserDude333]

Most of you probably don't know this, but my cousin is there, and every time a few minutes before they bomb a house they grab the children in the house, take them out and protect them. Things their parents certainly don't do.

 

And they do try to help the injured, but why would you see that on the news? It's Al-Jazeera.

 

 

 

If you use Al-Jazeera as your news source, your a [bleep] dunce who shouldn't be allowed a view on the situation.

 

 

 

Ignorance is bliss. You don't even know what you're talking about do you?

 

And I'm not using Al-Jazeera :wall: But if I'm not mistaken Al-Jazeera are the only ones filming what's happening, correct me if I'm wrong though.

[magekillr]

Yes. Let's just let the Hamas men peacefully walk out.

 

 

 

Yep, if it means opening the means for civilians to escape, that's exactly what you should do. Or, maybe..........just, maybe.......YOU DON'T REACT THIS WAY IN THE FIRST PLACE!

 

 

 

And I wish more news broadcasters were like Al Jazeera, they put the American Media to shame.

 

 

 

Furthermore, all this talk about Israel having the right to defend itself: yep, I agree wholeheartedly, they have the right to defend themselves. However, don't expect that act of defense to not backfire because you were a huge amoral [wagon] about when you killed hundreds of civilians. Also don't expect Hamas to go anywhere, which was the main reason for this? Right? Isn't that what Livni said?

 

 

"There are targets that can be done from the air and targets that cannot," Livni told Channel 2 TV.

 

 

 

She said Israel had broader objectives than just trying to stop Gaza militants from firing rockets into the country's south. She told the interviewer that toppling Hamas was "a strategic Israeli objective" but said that more than one military offensive might be needed to achieve Israel's aims.

 

 

 

"I cannot accept a state controlled by a terror organization in Gaza," Livni said.

 

 

 

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/art ... gD95FTP280

 

 

 

Or was it what Regev said?

 

 

 

When asked if the end-game was to topple Hamas, his reply was - no, it's purely to stop the rockets.

 

 

 

 

Someone's lying, and it ain't Regev.

[megakiller32]

Most of you probably don't know this, but my cousin is there, and every time a few minutes before they bomb a house they grab the children in the house, take them out and protect them. Things their parents certainly don't do.

 

And they do try to help the injured, but why would you see that on the news? It's Al-Jazeera.

 

 

 

If you use Al-Jazeera as your news source, your a [bleep] dunce who shouldn't be allowed a view on the situation.

 

 

 

Ignorance is bliss. You don't even know what you're talking about do you?

 

 

 

No you're right, I have no idea, i've been spouting made up nonsensical crap since page one where I first started posting on this topic :roll:

 

Most news sources are bias in some way or the other, but Al Jazeera takes it to another level of bias. A documentary I once saw on Al Jazeera was on the old town of Jaffa just outside Tel-Aviv (Which I've visited) their exact phrasing on the town-

 

"The Zionists have tried eradicating all of the towns history.."

 

#-o

[LaserDude333]

Yes. Let's just let the Hamas men peacefully walk out.

 

 

 

Yep, if it means opening the means for civilians to escape, that's exactly what you should do. Or, maybe..........just, maybe.......YOU DON'T REACT THIS WAY IN THE FIRST PLACE!

 

 

And how should we react? If your country would have been bombed by rockets for the past 8 years, what would you have done? You can't talk to them, they don't want to. Even during cease fires the shoot rockets at us.

 

You got no idea what you're talking about you haven't lived here (or in Gaza) for the past years. News reporters don't broadcast exact feelings.

[magekillr]

Yes. Let's just let the Hamas men peacefully walk out.

 

 

 

Yep, if it means opening the means for civilians to escape, that's exactly what you should do. Or, maybe..........just, maybe.......YOU DON'T REACT THIS WAY IN THE FIRST PLACE!

 

 

And how should we react? If your country would have been bombed by rockets for the past 8 years, what would you have done? You can't talk to them, they don't want to. Even during cease fires the shoot rockets at us.

 

You got no idea what you're talking about you haven't lived here (or in Gaza) for the past years. News reporters don't broadcast exact feelings.

 

 

 

The invasion to secure the area is a much better response than air-raiding villages. Historically, and theoretically, invasions result in less civilian casualties than air-raids. It's too little too late now, though. I know they don't want to talk, they don't recognize your right to exist. This is why the onus is on a third party, namely the US or the UN (but they veto everything). I don't know that Hamas would even consider talking to the US either, certainly they wouldn't talk to saber rattlers like Rice or Bush.

 

 

 

Scarborough put a "hypothetical" on Morning Joe, "What would we do if Canada started launching rockets across the border?" Well we probably would act the same way Israel has, even though it's a completely different situation considering the history of the areas. However, that doesn't mean I condone the US acting in that manner, nor is Canada the same population density as the Gaza Strip, nor is it as small.

 

 

 

Like Ginger said, I tire of people like you telling me that I have no idea what I am talking about just because I don't live there, especially when Olmert's own daughter, wife, and people protest the actions taken by Israel.

[RichieMcD]

Most of you probably don't know this, but my cousin is there, and every time a few minutes before they bomb a house they grab the children in the house, take them out and protect them. Things their parents certainly don't do.

 

And they do try to help the injured, but why would you see that on the news? It's Al-Jazeera.

 

 

 

If you use Al-Jazeera as your news source, your a [bleep] dunce who shouldn't be allowed a view on the situation.

 

 

 

Ignorance is bliss. You don't even know what you're talking about do you?

 

 

 

No you're right, I have no idea, i've been spouting made up nonsensical crap since page one where I first started posting on this topic :roll:

 

Most news sources are bias in some way or the other, but Al Jazeera takes it to another level of bias. A documentary I once saw on Al Jazeera was on the old town of Jaffa just outside Tel-Aviv (Which I've visited) their exact phrasing on the town-

 

"The Zionists have tried eradicating all of the towns history.."

 

#-o

 

 

 

Suppose then the many rewards they've been awarded for biasless reports and not censoring every little disturbing scene then are redundant? Or the fact that as Blue said 1/6 of the world relies on them for daily news, similarly on-par or greater than many stations such as Sky News, ITV, CNN etc.

 

 

 

Every News station will have the odd bias report / documentary produced, it will eventually happen. Does the fact that I've seen 2 completely biased towards the British documentary's based on the Northern Irish paramilitaries make it an unreliable source?

[magekillr]

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/ ... 4520090106

 

 

 

GAZA (Reuters) - Israeli tank fire killed up to 40 Palestinians at a United Nations school in the Gaza Strip on Tuesday, medical sources at two hospitals said.

 

 

 

Two tank shells exploded outside the school, spraying shrapnel on people inside and outside the building, where hundreds of Palestinians had sought refuge from fighting between Israeli soldiers and Hamas militants. In addition to the dead, several dozen people were wounded, the officials said.

 

 

 

Medical officials said all the dead were either people sheltering in the school or local residents.

 

 

 

The UN, which said the school in Jabaliya was clearly marked, said it was "strongly protesting these killings to the Israeli authorities and is calling for an immediate and impartial investigation".

 

 

 

"Where it is found that international humanitarian law has been violated, those responsible must be held to account. Under international law, installations such as schools, health centres and UN facilities should be protected from attack. Well before the current fighting, the UN had given to the Israeli authorities the GPS co-ordinates of all its installations in Gaza, including Asma elementary school."

 

 

 

There will be a UN investigation. So, I thought they were preventing civilian casualties as much as possible?

 

 

 

Guess which permanent member of the UN Security council will probably block that...

 

 

 

Edit: just to point out, this is a crime of war, but don't expect Israel to be held accountable, because they never have been.

 

 

 

Israel may have the right to put others on trial, but certainly no one has the right to put the Jewish people and the State of Israel on trial. Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, 25 March, 2001 quoted in BBC News Online.

[megakiller32]

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSTRE50544520090106

 

 

 

GAZA (Reuters) - Israeli tank fire killed up to 40 Palestinians at a United Nations school in the Gaza Strip on Tuesday, medical sources at two hospitals said.

 

 

 

Two tank shells exploded outside the school, spraying shrapnel on people inside and outside the building, where hundreds of Palestinians had sought refuge from fighting between Israeli soldiers and Hamas militants. In addition to the dead, several dozen people were wounded, the officials said.

 

 

 

Medical officials said all the dead were either people sheltering in the school or local residents.

 

 

 

The UN, which said the school in Jabaliya was clearly marked, said it was "strongly protesting these killings to the Israeli authorities and is calling for an immediate and impartial investigation".

 

 

 

"Where it is found that international humanitarian law has been violated, those responsible must be held to account. Under international law, installations such as schools, health centres and UN facilities should be protected from attack. Well before the current fighting, the UN had given to the Israeli authorities the GPS co-ordinates of all its installations in Gaza, including Asma elementary school."

 

 

 

There will be a UN investigation. So, I thought they were preventing civilian casualties as much as possible?

 

 

 

Guess which permanent member of the UN Security council will probably block that...

 

 

 

Edit: just to point out, this is a crime of war, but don't expect Israel to be held accountable, because they never have been.

 

 

 

Israel may have the right to put others on trial, but certainly no one has the right to put the Jewish people and the State of Israel on trial. Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, 25 March, 2001 quoted in BBC News Online.

 

 

 

I do support Israel, but sometimes, some of their actions are a bit intense are hardhanded... An investigation to this would be useful for both sides of the story :|

[dangeresque]

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSTRE50544520090106

 

 

 

GAZA (Reuters) - Israeli tank fire killed up to 40 Palestinians at a United Nations school in the Gaza Strip on Tuesday, medical sources at two hospitals said.

 

 

 

Two tank shells exploded outside the school, spraying shrapnel on people inside and outside the building, where hundreds of Palestinians had sought refuge from fighting between Israeli soldiers and Hamas militants. In addition to the dead, several dozen people were wounded, the officials said.

 

 

 

Medical officials said all the dead were either people sheltering in the school or local residents.

 

 

 

The UN, which said the school in Jabaliya was clearly marked, said it was "strongly protesting these killings to the Israeli authorities and is calling for an immediate and impartial investigation".

 

 

 

"Where it is found that international humanitarian law has been violated, those responsible must be held to account. Under international law, installations such as schools, health centres and UN facilities should be protected from attack. Well before the current fighting, the UN had given to the Israeli authorities the GPS co-ordinates of all its installations in Gaza, including Asma elementary school."

 

 

 

There will be a UN investigation. So, I thought they were preventing civilian casualties as much as possible?

 

 

 

Guess which permanent member of the UN Security council will probably block that...

 

 

 

Edit: just to point out, this is a crime of war, but don't expect Israel to be held accountable, because they never have been.

 

 

 

Israel may have the right to put others on trial, but certainly no one has the right to put the Jewish people and the State of Israel on trial. Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, 25 March, 2001 quoted in BBC News Online.

 

 

 

I do support Israel, but sometimes, some of their actions are a bit intense are hardhanded... An investigation to this would be useful for both sides of the story :|

 

Exactly.

 

 

 

And I doubt that they would have fired if they would have known that there were civilians inside. And If they did know, well then that's just bad and actions should be taken. But don't view this as Israel killing all these people, view it as the tank crew's fault, or the person who ordered the attacks fault, not Israel as a whole.

 

 

 

The invasion to secure the area is a much better response than air-raiding villages.

 

They don't dummy bomb whole villages and you know that. They have precision bombs/missles that blow up individual targets, they don't just unleash the bombbay over villages.

[Ginger_Warrior]

And I doubt that they would have fired if they would have known that there were civilians inside. And If they did know, well then that's just bad and actions should be taken.

 

I think the point is that they may as well have released "bombbay" over Gaza. This is what happens when you use massive firepower on a dense area already suffering from a humanitarian crisis; no matter how precise the bombs, or how reliable the intelligence, masses of people will be killed. There is now no place in Gaza safe for civilians to survive. Yet despite this, and despite the fact that this has not achieved anything so far, Israel seems prepared not only to continue the campaign, but escalate it.

 

 

 

It is astounding to me how any one can still sit here and say the Israelis are doing all they can to avoid civilian casualties.

[RichieMcD]

No matter how precise Israel's missiles are, no matter if they're state of the art they're Will be civilian casualties as they're bombing an heavily populated with poor housing conditions, meaning they're bombing in high density areas against low quality structures.

 

 

 

Even if they precisely aim for a "suspected" Hamas stronghold / point it is incredibly easy for a piece of bomb shrapnel or debris from the targeted building to cause damage to neighboring buildings and it's occupants. Palestinian citizens are afraid to leave their homes due to the ground invasion and bombardment of Israeli airstrikes.

 

 

 

Israel may be doing the best they can do cause as few civilian fatalities as possible, which I'm quite wary on still. But at the end of the day Israel full well knows it's killing innocent men, woman and children.

 

 

 

Amazing to think as well Israeli airstrikes have killed more Palestinian citizens within the first few days of it than Hamas rockets did in the months leading up to it.

[magekillr]

Brilliant summary from the Vlogbrothers of Youtube:

 

 

 

 

 

 

edit: He made a mistake about Fatah, though. He meant Palestine, not Pakistan.

[Freakyhair]

I'm going to a protest in London this weekend about this.

 

 

 

I'm pretty confused about Israel and Gaza etc to be honest because it looks to me like Israel effectively stole Palestinian land over the last 40 odd years? If this is the case then I really can't see why anybody would be supporting Israel as Palestine are simply retaliating to being forced into a small slither of land and the west bank which just seems blatently wrong. Hamas are firing rockets into Israel but Israel has been blockading and smothering Palestinians for years, I don't think there's a simple resolution at all.

 

 

 

To be honest I think if anyone had to be uprooted from land then it should at least have been in a country that decided upon creating Israel, you can't just create a country and screw the people living there, it kinda seems to me like Israel might be one of the main reasons that there are so many anti western feelings going about and why we're in a war against 'terror'.

 

 

 

To be fair, if I was forced to move from my land, shunned into a tiny strip of land and then blockaded and invaded and then declared to be living in Israel I'd be shooting as many rockets as I could. It's absolutely appauling that they are doing that, but it was absolutely appauling that they arn't in their own country and that Israel slowly shrunk the Palestinian borders(from what I know).

 

 

 

Either ways its pretty complicated, but I wonder if America would still be as intensly pro Israel as it is if the UN decided to place Israel in Utah..

 

 

 

One thing I find deeply disturbing is how the US and UK have supported Israel and pretty much actively stopped Palestinians from having the rights they deserve by vetoing so many UN proposals.

 

 

 

Check out this : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2000.htm

 

 

 

Just take a couple for examples..(these are what the US have vetoed)

 

 

 

1973 Afirms the rights of the Palestinians and calls on Israel to withdraw from the occupied territories.

 

1976 Condemns Israel for building settlements in the occupied territories.

 

1988 Condemns Israeli practices against Palestinians in the occupied territories

 

2001 To send unarmed monitors to the West Bank and the Gaza Strip.

 

 

 

 

To be honest, this kind of discusts me :S I really do wish that the rest of the world said 'fine, you love Israel so much then we'll put it next to Washington without asking you' and then for us to veto anything against ISrael ilegally expanding or breaching human rights..