Fighter Torso Discussion/Argument Thread

[Bad911]

 

Amen. I went there once, on the day of the release, and got so fed up with all the idiots that didn't know what they were doing, and the game itself, that I never went back. Plus its a huge waste of time.

 

 

 

I did the same thing, went there on release day, left like 2 hours later because no one knew what to do. I went back 1-2 years later with my clan it rocked. Maybe you should try it?

[stormveritas]

basically only pkers should get it?

 

 

 

Well, if you get a ton of fun out of maxing your hardest hit, then you should get it.

 

 

 

The strength bonus from the torso is impractical, but if it's fun, then whatever. The game is still about having fun. If you just want to hit as hard as possible, knock yourself out.

 

 

 

If you're trying to be time-efficient and go for best strategic planning, maybe there are some better choices available.

[compfreak847]

basically only pkers should get it?

 

 

 

Well, if you get a ton of fun out of maxing your hardest hit, then you should get it.

 

 

 

The strength bonus from the torso is impractical, but if it's fun, then whatever. The game is still about having fun. If you just want to hit as hard as possible, knock yourself out.

 

 

 

If you're trying to be time-efficient and go for best strategic planning, maybe there are some better choices available.

 

You'll probably find that you can get a bandos chesplate with GWD faster then you could get a torso from BA...

[Infi]

basically only pkers should get it?

 

 

 

Well, if you get a ton of fun out of maxing your hardest hit, then you should get it.

 

 

 

The strength bonus from the torso is impractical, but if it's fun, then whatever. The game is still about having fun. If you just want to hit as hard as possible, knock yourself out.

 

 

 

If you're trying to be time-efficient and go for best strategic planning, maybe there are some better choices available.

 

You'll probably find that you can get a bandos chesplate with GWD faster then you could get a torso from BA...

 

I know you're just joking here but if you're going to pull out every stop to cut down fighter torso to the bottom of the gutter then I'll have to make my argument. To get the stats to come close to being competent enough to get a Bandos Chestplate from GWD and to actually get the drop I could of gotten 10-15 torsos by then. The following argument is from the view point of someone who owns a fighter torso.

 

 

 

I'd like to address the fact that most of you have been saying that fighter torsos take around 6 hours to obtain. Not true. If you are any serious BA player or enthusiast, or even someone seeking the two useful items there (Fighter Torso/Penance Gloves) then you won't blindly run into the BA worlds to find a team of blundering idiots. Instead, you'd find competent players like yourself and easily and swiftly obtain the fighter torso even before setting foot into the BA arena. It doesn't take long to obtain as long as you know what you're doing and you have some capable teammates.

 

 

 

Lately I've been hearing where every training method and setup is basically outshadowed by this "Proselyte Top/Verac Skirt" combo where you piety/chivalry your whole task. This can only apply to a select few players. The fact of the matter is that most players do not have the funds to constantly guzzle prayer potions each task, and to speed it up isn't worth the money. I myself could afford several Bandos Chestplates yet I stick to my fighter torso. Why? Because the poor defence of the torso is made up by my barrow platelegs, the use of food, guthans and bunyips. Why spend more money on prayer potions and a bandos chestplate when I have everything I need here that works just as effectively and more cost efficient? The fighter torso is considerably better for those who don't want to spend money on an 11m chestplate on minor tasks such as basilisks, black demons, greater demons and lesser demons. I pray flick, so the use of proselyte and prayer is not needed. It gets the tasks done slower, but it doesn't cost me a fortune and I get to use that saved cash for things I love, such as CWing and PKing. I doubt many of you here would piety a basilisk task.

 

 

 

I could go on about its versatile uses in PKing, but I'm getting kind of tired and writing from the scratch of your head is not practical. I'm looking forward to some rebuttals, but not where hypothetical math is used - it's far too far fetched and an unreliable way to back up your argument.

[Inuashakent]

basically only pkers should get it?

 

 

 

Well, if you get a ton of fun out of maxing your hardest hit, then you should get it.

 

 

 

The strength bonus from the torso is impractical, but if it's fun, then whatever. The game is still about having fun. If you just want to hit as hard as possible, knock yourself out.

 

 

 

If you're trying to be time-efficient and go for best strategic planning, maybe there are some better choices available.

 

You'll probably find that you can get a bandos chesplate with GWD faster then you could get a torso from BA...

 

I know you're just joking here but if you're going to pull out every stop to cut down fighter torso to the bottom of the gutter then I'll have to make my argument. To get the stats to come close to being competent enough to get a Bandos Chestplate from GWD and to actually get the drop I could of gotten 10-15 torsos by then. The following argument is from the view point of someone who owns a fighter torso.

 

 

 

I'd like to address the fact that most of you have been saying that fighter torsos take around 6 hours to obtain. Not true. If you are any serious BA player or enthusiast, or even someone seeking the two useful items there (Fighter Torso/Penance Gloves) then you won't blindly run into the BA worlds to find a team of blundering idiots. Instead, you'd find competent players like yourself and easily and swiftly obtain the fighter torso even before setting foot into the BA arena. It doesn't take long to obtain as long as you know what you're doing and you have some capable teammates. Firstly, it will take some time to learn BA if the OP hasn't tried it before. Either way, it still takes a long time to get it.

 

 

 

Lately I've been hearing where every training method and setup is basically outshadowed by this "Proselyte Top/Verac Skirt" combo where you piety/chivalry your whole task. This can only apply to a select few players. No. The fact of the matter is that most players do not have the funds to constantly guzzle prayer potions each task, and to speed it up isn't worth the money. Ok, that's why you use 10% str. I helps a lot, but barely takes 1-3 Prayer pots each task. And you can always make money. I myself could afford several Bandos Chestplates yet I stick to my fighter torso. Weird, you should buy Barrows, it's better. Why? Because the poor defence of the torso is made up by my barrow platelegs, the use of food, guthans and bunyips. Guthans = wasting time when you could be whipping. Bunyip = most overrated ever, you do know how much faster xp you'll get with a combat summon. Why spend more money on prayer potions and a bandos chestplate when I have everything I need here that works just as effectively and more cost efficient? Because you're not being efficient. The fighter torso is considerably better for those who don't want to spend money on an 11m chestplate on minor tasks such as basilisks, black demons, greater demons and lesser demons. Which is why you buy Barrows. I pray flick, so the use of proselyte and prayer is not needed. Prayer switching takes a lot of concentration, and it definetely doesn't work 100% It gets the tasks done slower, but it doesn't cost me a fortune and I get to use that saved cash for things I love, such as CWing and PKing. I doubt many of you here would piety a basilisk task. Actually... 1) I would, 2) Duradel + Blocking/skipping = only good tasks.

 

 

 

I could go on about its versatile uses in PKing, but I'm getting kind of tired and writing from the scratch of your head is not practical. Versatile uses in Pking? Like the time when you'll get hit much more, but you'll hit 1 or 2 more max each time you hit? You can't retrieve it in most places now, too. I'm looking forward to some rebuttals, but not where hypothetical math is used - it's far too far fetched and an unreliable way to back up your argument. I'll be looking to your rebuttal, one where the facts are correct. Math... it's a fact.

[compfreak847]

basically only pkers should get it?

 

 

 

Well, if you get a ton of fun out of maxing your hardest hit, then you should get it.

 

 

 

The strength bonus from the torso is impractical, but if it's fun, then whatever. The game is still about having fun. If you just want to hit as hard as possible, knock yourself out.

 

 

 

If you're trying to be time-efficient and go for best strategic planning, maybe there are some better choices available.

 

You'll probably find that you can get a bandos chesplate with GWD faster then you could get a torso from BA...

 

I know you're just joking here but if you're going to pull out every stop to cut down fighter torso to the bottom of the gutter then I'll have to make my argument. To get the stats to come close to being competent enough to get a Bandos Chestplate from GWD and to actually get the drop I could of gotten 10-15 torsos by then. The following argument is from the view point of someone who owns a fighter torso.

 

 

 

I'd like to address the fact that most of you have been saying that fighter torsos take around 6 hours to obtain. Not true. If you are any serious BA player or enthusiast, or even someone seeking the two useful items there (Fighter Torso/Penance Gloves) then you won't blindly run into the BA worlds to find a team of blundering idiots. Instead, you'd find competent players like yourself and easily and swiftly obtain the fighter torso even before setting foot into the BA arena. It doesn't take long to obtain as long as you know what you're doing and you have some capable teammates.

 

 

 

Lately I've been hearing where every training method and setup is basically outshadowed by this "Proselyte Top/Verac Skirt" combo where you piety/chivalry your whole task. This can only apply to a select few players. The fact of the matter is that most players do not have the funds to constantly guzzle prayer potions each task, and to speed it up isn't worth the money. I myself could afford several Bandos Chestplates yet I stick to my fighter torso. Why? Because the poor defence of the torso is made up by my barrow platelegs, the use of food, guthans and bunyips. Why spend more money on prayer potions and a bandos chestplate when I have everything I need here that works just as effectively and more cost efficient? The fighter torso is considerably better for those who don't want to spend money on an 11m chestplate on minor tasks such as basilisks, black demons, greater demons and lesser demons. I pray flick, so the use of proselyte and prayer is not needed. It gets the tasks done slower, but it doesn't cost me a fortune and I get to use that saved cash for things I love, such as CWing and PKing. I doubt many of you here would piety a basilisk task.

 

 

 

I could go on about its versatile uses in PKing, but I'm getting kind of tired and writing from the scratch of your head is not practical. I'm looking forward to some rebuttals, but not where hypothetical math is used - it's far too far fetched and an unreliable way to back up your argument.

 

Not quite sure what the 'hypothetical math' argument is about, but feel free to point out any flaws you see in my equations. As for your proslyte top/verac skirt combo, I typically use 2 prayer potions per hour when using +10% strength. The majority of my friends can afford 16k cost per hour in 'guzzled' prayer potions in exchange for significantly faster kills and XP, but perhaps you and I travel in different circles. I would not know how long torso takes to obtained, having never obtained it myself (besides knowing that it would have to be well under 2 hours to make up for it), other then that 10+ friends of mine have told me that it is 8-10 hours, but your argument about requiring training high enough to GWD counting as time is senseless; we are talking about training itself, and what is most efficient. Lastly, the OP has implied that he is not experienced in BA, and I know very few people who do it for reasons other then the torso, so I believe it is safe to assume that that argument carries no water in this discussion.

[Infi]

Firstly, it will take some time to learn BA if the OP hasn't tried it before. Either way, it still takes a long time to get it.

 

It's not that hard to learn BA, considering you are required to listen to a quite lengthy tutorial before being allowed into a real game. Those who complain that complain that it takes a considerable amount of time either:

 

*Are playing with inexperienced people

 

*Skipped the tutorial

 

 

 

No.

 

That's too much of an over confident and unsupported answer to be held of any value.

 

 

 

Ok, that's why you use 10% str. I helps a lot, but barely takes 1-3 Prayer pots each task. And you can always make money.

 

I'm not sure of the exact value, but I'm most definite that it takes more than 1-3 prayer potions each task. Your prayer level is 85, far higher than any average scaper. The prospect of losing 30k (at a bare minimum as you've outlined) a task is too much for some players, especially those who look to slayer as a profit earner - especially at lower levels.

 

 

 

Weird, you should buy Barrows, it's better.

 

I do have barrow armour, but I assume that you've read my whole argument and you'd know that barrow armour uses are not needed in some places.

 

 

 

Guthans = wasting time when you could be whipping. Bunyip = most overrated ever, you do know how much faster xp you'll get with a combat summon.

 

Guthans is basically a reusable source at a very cheap price, and its uses are endless. Players could buy guthans for a (well it used to be much more) hefty price of 5M, and then they can use it at places such as GWD, DKing and other boss hunting places. It's a good investment to have a Guthan's set, as it will benefit you greatly.

 

Bunyip is not over-rated. It's use during combat is limited, but it's ability to heal you as its base effect is invaluable. It's what I like to call mindless healing, just summon it and it's there in the background, healing you gradually on minor and even some major tasks that you don't take too much damage from. And you won't get faster xp at places with a combat summon at places of single attack zones, as most slayer tasks are.

 

 

 

Because you're not being efficient.

 

Cost efficiency =/= XP efficiency. Allow me to use an analogy. Some prefer to burst rock lobsters albeit being highly expensive, but only because their main goal is to gain the highest efficient exp despite the cost. Cost efficient players however on the other hand will take the time to gain their charms slowly at a slower, yet cheaper source such as waterfiends. As I said before, it depends on the type of player and the efficiency suit they follow.

 

 

 

Which is why you buy Barrows.

 

Use barrows at places where the defence isn't needed? Why use something where it isn't required, where it is replaced by something that equalizes the damage taken? (Through the use of bunyips, Guthans, prayer flicking) It is then in these scenarios where offence is more needed than defence to finish the task quicker.

 

 

 

Prayer switching takes a lot of concentration, and it definetely doesn't work 100%

 

It's not prayer switching, it's prayer flicking. Here's a video:

 

It doesn't take alot of concentration, you just let your mouse hover over the desired prayer and flick it on and off depending on the movement of the monster. It also aids you slightly for those who want to fight Jad :mrgreen:

 

With prayer flicking, I can finish a task of 150+ Black Demons without even taking a single dose of prayer potion or leaving the area. The demons come to me, and I just flick in that spot and let my character auto retaliate.

 

 

 

Actually... 1) I would, 2) Duradel + Blocking/skipping = only good tasks.

 

Well then, that's your choice because not everyone blocks basilisks. They are actually a good source of fast slayer exp and charms.

 

 

 

Like the time when you'll get hit much more, but you'll hit 1 or 2 more max each time you hit? You can't retrieve it in most places now, too.

 

You won't get hit more because a fighter torso has higher slash bonus than a rune platebody, especially in a fighting zone where mostly ALL slash weapons are used (Slash Godsword, Abyssal Whip, Dragon Claws).

 

The fact that you lose a fighter torso is simply a glitch. It just needs be adjusted. There's some topics floating around Help & Advice about this specific bug which you can find.

 

 

 

I'll be looking to your rebuttal, one where the facts are correct. Math... it's a fact.

 

Math may be a fact, but the validity of the source is questionable. Unless it's been gratified as an ultimate truth and been cross trained with hundreds and even thousands of samples ranging from all combat levels of unbiased sources, then it won't be fully reliable as this game is based on a system of "random".

[Inuashakent]

I can't even begin to say how biased all of this is... I'm not Compfreak, by the way :XD:

 

 

 

Firstly, it will take some time to learn BA if the OP hasn't tried it before. Either way, it still takes a long time to get it.

 

It's not that hard to learn BA, considering you are required to listen to a quite lengthy tutorial before being allowed into a real game. Those who complain that complain that it takes a considerable amount of time either:

 

*Are playing with inexperienced people

 

*Skipped the tutorial

 

 

 

No.

 

That's too much of an over confident and unsupported answer to be held of any value. Yes, but it is explained with the rest of what I said.

 

 

 

Ok, that's why you use 10% str. I helps a lot, but barely takes 1-3 Prayer pots each task. And you can always make money.

 

I'm not sure of the exact value, but I'm most definite that it takes more than 1-3 prayer potions each task. Your prayer level is 85, far higher than any average scaper. The prospect of losing 30k (at a bare minimum as you've outlined) a task is too much for some players, especially those who look to slayer as a profit earner - especially at lower levels.

 

I'm 77 Prayer. Anybody can obtain 70, just go kill Green dragons or something. Making money is something anybody can do with knowledge of the game. It's called efficiency, I'll talk about this more below.

 

 

 

Weird, you should buy Barrows, it's better.

 

I do have barrow armour, but I assume that you've read my whole argument and you'd know that barrow armour uses are not needed in some places.

 

Which is why you use Proselyte. Save more money while Praying.

 

 

 

Guthans = wasting time when you could be whipping. Bunyip = most overrated ever, you do know how much faster xp you'll get with a combat summon.

 

Guthans is basically a reusable source at a very cheap price, and its uses are endless. Players could buy guthans for a (well it used to be much more) hefty price of 5M, and then they can use it at places such as GWD, DKing and other boss hunting places. It's a good investment to have a Guthan's set, as it will benefit you greatly.

 

Bunyip is not over-rated. It's use during combat is limited, but it's ability to heal you as its base effect is invaluable. It's what I like to call mindless healing, just summon it and it's there in the background, healing you gradually on minor and even some major tasks that you don't take too much damage from. And you won't get faster xp at places with a combat summon at places of single attack zones, as most slayer tasks are.

 

Invaluable,... I see, but it comes at a huge cost. You lose ~10k xp/hour, that's at least 10% of your average xp. That's A LOT in Runescape. Most slayer tasks are multi combat if you know what to block and skip, and where to kill monsters.

 

Because you're not being efficient.

 

Cost efficiency =/= XP efficiency. Allow me to use an analogy. Some prefer to burst rock lobsters albeit being highly expensive, but only because their main goal is to gain the highest efficient exp despite the cost. Cost efficient players however on the other hand will take the time to gain their charms slowly at a slower, yet cheaper source such as waterfiends. As I said before, it depends on the type of player and the efficiency suit they follow.

 

That remark is stupid. Efficiency is cost and exp balanced out. That's what efficiency is in Runescape, nothing else.

 

 

 

Which is why you buy Barrows.

 

Use barrows at places where the defence isn't needed? Why use something where it isn't required, where it is replaced by something that equalizes the damage taken? (Through the use of bunyips, Guthans, prayer flicking) It is then in these scenarios where offence is more needed than defence to finish the task quicker.

 

That's why you bring Proselyte.

 

 

 

Prayer switching takes a lot of concentration, and it definetely doesn't work 100%

 

It's not prayer switching, it's prayer flicking. Here's a video:

 

It doesn't take alot of concentration, you just let your mouse hover over the desired prayer and flick it on and off depending on the movement of the monster. It also aids you slightly for those who want to fight Jad :mrgreen:

 

With prayer flicking, I can finish a task of 150+ Black Demons without even taking a single dose of prayer potion or leaving the area. The demons come to me, and I just flick in that spot and let my character auto retaliate.

 

Actually, it has no official name. If you're a serious Slayer, you'll know that hovering your mouse over a prayer = no Combat familiars, or running to monster/picking drops AT A FAST SPEED. You can do 150+ Black demons without a single dose of Prayer potion? While using Piety AND Protect Melee? Wow, you're god. Your computer has 2 mouses! Or it could be that you're not using Combat prayers?

 

Actually... 1) I would, 2) Duradel + Blocking/skipping = only good tasks.

 

Well then, that's your choice because not everyone blocks basilisks. They are actually a good source of fast slayer exp and charms.

 

Duradel doesn't give Basalisks.

 

 

 

Like the time when you'll get hit much more, but you'll hit 1 or 2 more max each time you hit? You can't retrieve it in most places now, too.

 

You won't get hit more because a fighter torso has higher slash bonus than a rune platebody, especially in a fighting zone where mostly ALL slash weapons are used (Slash Godsword, Abyssal Whip, Dragon Claws).

 

The fact that you lose a fighter torso is simply a glitch. It just needs be adjusted. There's some topics floating around Help & Advice about this specific bug which you can find.

 

A glitch, ok. You lose it anyways, which makes it useless. Also, Slash is a good majority of the weapons, but you lose out on Range def... and plus, the time getting it makes this irrelevant, because with the time spent you could easily buy a couple barrows tops.

 

 

 

It's also worth nothing that it has lower def in everything else, which basically makes it useless while training.

 

 

 

I'll be looking to your rebuttal, one where the facts are correct. Math... it's a fact.

 

Math may be a fact, but the validity of the source is questionable. Unless it's been gratified as an ultimate truth and been cross trained with hundreds and even thousands of samples ranging from all combat levels of unbiased sources, then it won't be fully reliable as this game is based on a system of "random".

 

No, it's math. Tell me where comp's math is wrong.

[compfreak847]

Firstly, it will take some time to learn BA if the OP hasn't tried it before. Either way, it still takes a long time to get it.

 

It's not that hard to learn BA, considering you are required to listen to a quite lengthy tutorial before being allowed into a real game. Those who complain that complain that it takes a considerable amount of time either:

 

*Are playing with inexperienced people

 

*Skipped the tutorial

 

 

 

Some things cannot be taught. All of my friends who have obtained the torso have said it takes 6+ hours; none of them have been less then 2

 

 

 

No.

 

That's too much of an over confident and unsupported answer to be held of any value.

 

So far I've seen 0 evidence to support your theorys, yet I have mathmatically proven mine, using numbers gained from real world XP.

 

 

 

Ok, that's why you use 10% str. I helps a lot, but barely takes 1-3 Prayer pots each task. And you can always make money.

 

I'm not sure of the exact value, but I'm most definite that it takes more than 1-3 prayer potions each task. Your prayer level is 85, far higher than any average scaper. The prospect of losing 30k (at a bare minimum as you've outlined) a task is too much for some players, especially those who look to slayer as a profit earner - especially at lower levels. 30k a task? Most of my slayer tasks don't take 2 hours, and as I've said, I use an average of 2 prayer pots per hour, or 16k per hour cost.

 

 

 

Weird, you should buy Barrows, it's better.

 

I do have barrow armour, but I assume that you've read my whole argument and you'd know that barrow armour uses are not needed in some places. Yup, those places where offence is superior; the 5% faster XP from +10% strength for 16k per hour means the player would have to be unable to earn more then 320k any other method; with avansies, this is not an issue, and if they were unable to the 8k of +5% strength would make up for it,

 

 

 

Guthans = wasting time when you could be whipping. Bunyip = most overrated ever, you do know how much faster xp you'll get with a combat summon.

 

Guthans is basically a reusable source at a very cheap price, and its uses are endless. Players could buy guthans for a (well it used to be much more) hefty price of 5M, and then they can use it at places such as GWD, DKing and other boss hunting places. It's a good investment to have a Guthan's set, as it will benefit you greatly. What about it? Most people who train don't farm XP at boss hunting places, they go there for profit.

 

Bunyip is not over-rated. It's use during combat is limited, but it's ability to heal you as its base effect is invaluable. It's what I like to call mindless healing, just summon it and it's there in the background, healing you gradually on minor and even some major tasks that you don't take too much damage from. And you won't get faster xp at places with a combat summon at places of single attack zones, as most slayer tasks are. It is overall, but you do realize that most of what you quoted was said by infamous, not me?

 

 

 

Because you're not being efficient.

 

Cost efficiency =/= XP efficiency. Allow me to use an analogy. Some prefer to burst rock lobsters albeit being highly expensive, but only because their main goal is to gain the highest efficient exp despite the cost. Cost efficient players however on the other hand will take the time to gain their charms slowly at a slower, yet cheaper source such as waterfiends. As I said before, it depends on the type of player and the efficiency suit they follow. Allow me to use another anology. I defince efficiency as "what will require the least amount of time total to complete a task". This includes earning money. Therefore, a player could burst 1k charms and earn the money spent therein in less time then they could kill waterfiends for 1k charms. This is efficiency, not 'cost efficiency' or other such nonsense.

 

 

 

Which is why you buy Barrows.

 

Use barrows at places where the defence isn't needed? Why use something where it isn't required, where it is replaced by something that equalizes the damage taken? (Through the use of bunyips, Guthans, prayer flicking) It is then in these scenarios where offence is more needed than defence to finish the task quicker. Yet again, more quotes that I did not say, but I can defend them anyway; proslyte + veracs skirt covers the situations where barrows isn't worth it.

 

 

 

Prayer switching takes a lot of concentration, and it definetely doesn't work 100%

 

It's not prayer switching, it's prayer flicking. Here's a video:

 

It doesn't take alot of concentration, you just let your mouse hover over the desired prayer and flick it on and off depending on the movement of the monster. It also aids you slightly for those who want to fight Jad :mrgreen:

 

With prayer flicking, I can finish a task of 150+ Black Demons without even taking a single dose of prayer potion or leaving the area. The demons come to me, and I just flick in that spot and let my character auto retaliate. Yet again, I never said that. It does require 100% concentration, something few people do while slaying (can't watch tv etc. very easily); I do prayer flick, and I happily consider it an alternative.

 

 

 

Actually... 1) I would, 2) Duradel + Blocking/skipping = only good tasks.

 

Well then, that's your choice because not everyone blocks basilisks. They are actually a good source of fast slayer exp and charms. Again, I never said that, but they are much slower XP\charms then places like Armored Zombies or other slayer monsters.

 

 

 

Like the time when you'll get hit much more, but you'll hit 1 or 2 more max each time you hit? You can't retrieve it in most places now, too.

 

You won't get hit more because a fighter torso has higher slash bonus than a rune platebody, especially in a fighting zone where mostly ALL slash weapons are used (Slash Godsword, Abyssal Whip, Dragon Claws).

 

The fact that you lose a fighter torso is simply a glitch. It just needs be adjusted. There's some topics floating around Help & Advice about this specific bug which you can find. Never said that, but if it is a glitch, it is currently not fixed.

 

 

 

I'll be looking to your rebuttal, one where the facts are correct. Math... it's a fact.

 

Math may be a fact, but the validity of the source is questionable. Unless it's been gratified as an ultimate truth and been cross trained with hundreds and even thousands of samples ranging from all combat levels of unbiased sources, then it won't be fully reliable as this game is based on a system of "random". Himm, I don't recall your ''thousands of unbiased samples ' of people obtaining the Fighter Torso in less then 2 hours on average. I, however, am quite proud to say that I use very precise testing methods, using thousands or tens of thousands of samples until I achieve very narrow ranged numbers. See some of my other work on various threads; reading through the 1,200 pages of my arguments over the course of my 'slayer sucks' thread (see signature) for examples.

[Inuashakent]

Oh, and please, don't bring in the fun factor as your argument.

[Infi]

 

Some things cannot be taught. All of my friends who have obtained the torso have said it takes 6+ hours; none of them have been less then 2

 

That's their personal experience. For me, it took around 2 hours.

 

 

 

So far I've seen 0 evidence to support your theorys, yet I have mathmatically proven mine, using numbers gained from real world XP.

 

I have no mathematical backing to my theories - I speak from a logical standpoint, however you use randomly produced numbers such as

 

(120/4)*2)/100 = .6% faster XP

 

and expect us to consider it as it's absolute fact.

 

 

 

30k a task? Most of my slayer tasks don't take 2 hours, and as I've said, I use an average of 2 prayer pots per hour, or 16k per hour cost.

 

 

This point will be addressed later on.

 

 

 

Yup, those places where offence is superior; the 5% faster XP from +10% strength for 16k per hour means the player would have to be unable to earn more then 320k any other method; with avansies, this is not an issue, and if they were unable to the 8k of +5% strength would make up for it

 

Again, more random statistics which we don't know where it's being obtained from.

 

 

 

What about it? Most people who train don't farm XP at boss hunting places, they go there for profit.

 

I'm just explaining the versatility of if and when a Guthan's set is purchased. Perhaps the point I raised is a bit irrelevant. The point that I specifically wanted to send was that since you're using Guthans, you must be at a place where food is abundant and that you need to heal frequently (as to need to aid of Guthans to help maintain your hitpoints). Your suggestion to use barrows armour (which I do) is used as in my suggestion of Guthans, yet you dub Guthans as a time waster "when you could be whipping". The base armour that could be used is this scenario would be fighter torso + barrow leg armour, and logically speaking you should be fine as long as you keep your Guthans handy in your inventory.

 

 

 

It is overall, but you do realize that most of what you quoted was said by infamous, not me?

 

I'm confused here. Who are you talking to? :wall:

 

 

 

Allow me to use another anology. I defince efficiency as "what will require the least amount of time total to complete a task". This includes earning money. Therefore, a player could burst 1k charms and earn the money spent therein in less time then they could kill waterfiends for 1k charms. This is efficiency, not 'cost efficiency' or other such nonsense.

 

Taken from dictionary.com:

 

2. accomplishment of or ability to accomplish a job with a minimum expenditure of time and effort

 

Efficiency is not only defined in how fast it takes to accomplish a certain task or job, but rather also the amount of effort which is put in. In this case, it is the cash spent in obtaining the charms by bursting. This is the combination of cost efficiency and work efficiency, it isn't nonsense, it's a simple balance of economics and work exerted.

 

 

 

In the middle of this rebuttal and I realize I've been quoting Inuashakent instead of compfreak. I must admit this has put me off from writing a rebuttal for the rest of Inuasha's arguments. I apologize to compfreak, I'll continue and finish this in a few day's time (I have a paper due tomorrow :P)

[Inuashakent]

I'm just explaining the versatility of if and when a Guthan's set is purchased. Perhaps the point I raised is a bit irrelevant. The point that I specifically wanted to send was that since you're using Guthans, you must be at a place where food is abundant and that you need to heal frequently (as to need to aid of Guthans to help maintain your hitpoints). Your suggestion to use barrows armour (which I do) is used as in my suggestion of Guthans, yet you dub Guthans as a time waster "when you could be whipping". The base armour that could be used is this scenario would be fighter torso + barrow leg armour, and logically speaking you should be fine as long as you keep your Guthans handy in your inventory.

 

No, you said you use Fighter torso. Guthan's is a waste of time compared to a whip. If you're willing to Guthan more because you want an extra 2 str... You do know how much you lose when you're using Guthans, right?

 

Efficiency is not only defined in how fast it takes to accomplish a certain task or job, but rather also the amount of effort which is put in. In this case, it is the cash spent in obtaining the charms by bursting. This is the combination of cost efficiency and work efficiency, it isn't nonsense, it's a simple balance of economics and work exerted.

 

WRONG. Efficiency in Runescape is not real life efficiency.

[compfreak847]

 

I have no mathematical backing to my theories - I speak from a logical standpoint, however you use randomly produced numbers such as

 

(120/4)*2)/100 = .6% faster XP

 

and expect us to consider it as it's absolute fact.

 

 

120 = str bonus with whip, / 4 = what bonus the torso is providing, X 2 = allowing for it only being half of the hit equation (strength level being part of the factor) / 100 for percentage. Happy? Just because you don't understand the reasoning behind numbers doesn't mean they are 'randomly produced'.

 

 

 

 

Again, more random statistics which we don't know where it's being obtained from.

 

 

Ah, yes, because numbers like '16k for 2 prayer potions' are completely made up.

 

 

 

 

Efficiency is not only defined in how fast it takes to accomplish a certain task or job, but rather also the amount of effort which is put in. In this case, it is the cash spent in obtaining the charms by bursting. This is the combination of cost efficiency and work efficiency, it isn't nonsense, it's a simple balance of economics and work exerted.

 

 

 

In the middle of this rebuttal and I realize I've been quoting Inuashakent instead of compfreak. I must admit this has put me off from writing a rebuttal for the rest of Inuasha's arguments. I apologize to compfreak, I'll continue and finish this in a few day's time (I have a paper due tomorrow :P)

 

And that's where your problem is. The ONLY thing in runescape that your spending is time; unless you want to go into the number of clicks\keystrokes required. I already stated that I include the time to earn money, or the money earned; therefore, all variables are standardized, both methods producing the same amount of charms and cash. Time is the only variable.

[i_love_burritos]

Wow :shock: , this is coming along to be a lengthy thread.... :lol:

[Infi]

Wow :shock: , this is coming along to be a lengthy thread.... :lol:

 

The problem is that they right. Most of the time I do use the proselyte/verac skirt combo. This is really the way to go.

 

Fighter torso is only good for disposable PKing armour..the slash defence on the torso is superior to that on the Rune Plate.

 

However, if you really can't get a torso in under 2 hours, don't bother with it.

 

 

 

I concede defeat, compfreak and Inuasha :mrgreen:

[Sid Icarus]

How about flicking piety with fighter torso at monsters where defence is not needed. ;)

[compfreak847]

How about flicking piety with fighter torso at monsters where defence is not needed. ;)

 

Rare to find someone that's willing to pay that sort of attention, and even then without a SGS you'll need to drink some prayer pots.

[Sid Icarus]

Rare to find someone that's willing to pay that sort of attention, and even then without a SGS you'll need to drink some prayer pots.

No. I've flicked 15% range prayer on several metal dragon tasks and chivalry (no piety available) on dust devils without losing a single prayer point. Both are still better than proselyte and 10% boost.

 

 

 

All I'm trying to say that the torso is not that horrible in ALL ways. :lol:

[nicrune007]

 

I have no mathematical backing to my theories - I speak from a logical standpoint, however you use randomly produced numbers such as

 

(120/4)*2)/100 = .6% faster XP

 

and expect us to consider it as it's absolute fact.

 

 

120 = str bonus with whip, / 4 = what bonus the torso is providing, X 2 = allowing for it only being half of the hit equation (strength level being part of the factor) / 100 for percentage. Happy? Just because you don't understand the reasoning behind numbers doesn't mean they are 'randomly produced'.

 

 

The formula is wrong, change the 4 str bonus to 40, and it will not make sense.

 

But yeah you proved your point in that looong maths thingy.

[compfreak847]

 

I have no mathematical backing to my theories - I speak from a logical standpoint, however you use randomly produced numbers such as

 

(120/4)*2)/100 = .6% faster XP

 

and expect us to consider it as it's absolute fact.

 

 

120 = str bonus with whip, / 4 = what bonus the torso is providing, X 2 = allowing for it only being half of the hit equation (strength level being part of the factor) / 100 for percentage. Happy? Just because you don't understand the reasoning behind numbers doesn't mean they are 'randomly produced'.

 

 

The formula is wrong, change the 4 str bonus to 40, and it will not make sense.

 

But yeah you proved your point in that looong maths thingy.

 

No, it's right; 120/40 = 3, the 40 bonus is providing 1/3rd the total strength...

 

 

 

No. I've flicked 15% range prayer on several metal dragon tasks and chivalry (no piety available) on dust devils without losing a single prayer point. Both are still better than proselyte and 10% boost.

 

 

 

All I'm trying to say that the torso is not that horrible in ALL ways. :lol:

 

That's awfully lucky, I'm fast with switching, even with a whip, but I still end up losing some points. Even then, the bandos plate can be earned in almost the same amount of time, and metal dragon tasks require protection prayer - you can't switch 2 prayer at once without an autoer, making proslyte better.

[Sid Icarus]

That's awfully lucky, I'm fast with switching, even with a whip, but I still end up losing some points. Even then, the bandos plate can be earned in almost the same amount of time, and metal dragon tasks require protection prayer - you can't switch 2 prayer at once without an autoer, making proslyte better.

It has nothing to do with luck. I've learned the right technique and timing. Staying away from melee distance and antifire stuff are 100% protection when ranging metal dragons (no, not mithril), so the only needed prayers are boosting. Yes, I know that ranging has nothing to do with the torso, but I was trying to prove that it is possible to flick without ever needing prayer restoration.

[compfreak847]

That's awfully lucky, I'm fast with switching, even with a whip, but I still end up losing some points. Even then, the bandos plate can be earned in almost the same amount of time, and metal dragon tasks require protection prayer - you can't switch 2 prayer at once without an autoer, making proslyte better.

It has nothing to do with luck. I've learned the right technique and timing. Staying away from melee distance and antifire stuff are 100% protection when ranging metal dragons (no, not mithril), so the only needed prayers are boosting. Yes, I know that ranging has nothing to do with the torso, but I was trying to prove that it is possible to flick without ever needing prayer restoration.

 

Crossbow is much easier to switch with then whip due to the long animation. And that has nothing whatsoever to do with torso :|

[Sid Icarus]

I already mentioned chivalry at dust devils. I also flick chivalry at greater demons, fire giants and kalphites. :|

 

 

 

Crossbow is much easier to switch with then whip due to the long animation. And that has nothing whatsoever to do with torso :|

If you learn it, you can flick any prayer with any weapon except darts and knives. Animations have nothing to do with it. Trust me, I know what I'm talking about.

[compfreak847]

I already mentioned chivalry at dust devils. I also flick chivalry at greater demons, fire giants and kalphites. :|

 

 

 

Crossbow is much easier to switch with then whip due to the long animation. And that has nothing whatsoever to do with torso :|

If you learn it, you can flick any prayer with any weapon except darts and knives. Animations have nothing to do with it. Trust me, I know what I'm talking about.

 

And I do too. As a rough guesstimate, I've spent around 70 hours flicking prayer on various monsters, on a high speed cable connection over a CAT6a gigabit network with a 2000 DPI ultra fast response mouse. Animations have everything to do with it; a weapon like the whip has a longer time when there is no animation, making it more difficult to guess precisely when you can flick on prayer, allowing for network lag; a weapon that 'freezes' you in place and has a longer animation, like rune crossbow, makes it much easier to flick with.

[Sid Icarus]

guess

There's your problem. And I do use whip on the tasks I listed.